Quote :

"-An even playing field going forward"

This is really the most important thing to me. I want 100% absolute oversight so that they will not and can not do these things in the future.

All those wins mean little to nothing if they are playing by a different set of rules, or with athletes that are eligible based on bogus courses, recruiting is boosted with Jordan/Nike money, automobiles, parking tickets, agents, etc.

8/16/2012 11:37:10 AM

The whole thing about a level playing field is what what I think most people are missing. If we want to change the requirements for athletes so they don't have a stringent requirements that's fine. But right now the rules are that they have to meet certain criteria. If everyone has to work hard to meet those but you cheat to get around it then that's an unfair advantage and you should be punished for breaking the rules.

8/16/2012 11:40:32 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't NCSU catch hell when we were trying to fill one of the coaches position a few years ago because of some state law that caps coaches pay. But when Butch or Roy was picked up by UNC, they got a special exemption for it to get him in. Anybody else remember that story?

Bottom line, it has been years since there was a level playing field in the UNC system when it comes to athletics.

8/16/2012 12:11:02 PM

the way i remember it is that the BOG had to approve the salary... and they did. and that was that.

right? god all these stupid issues just run together at this point.

8/16/2012 1:03:05 PM

actually, the BOG might have had to approve the salary, but so did the ACC. AFAIK, there have been two ACC exemptions granted for high salaries: Butch and Roy.

8/16/2012 1:39:27 PM

The problem is... There aren't enough smart talented athletes.

8/16/2012 2:02:04 PM

Quote :

"Jeff Gravley ?@jgravleyWRAL More later.RT @WRALSportsFan: ALERT: Former governor Jim Martin will lead further investigation into academics at UNC http://www.wralsportsfan.com/ "

Would have preferred someone outside the NC political scene but they could picked worse.

[Edited on August 16, 2012 at 3:12 PM. Reason : Jim Martin]

8/16/2012 3:11:44 PM

Quote :

"Sources tell WRAL News that UNC leaders have asked former Gov. Jim Martin to lead an investigation into academic improprieties at the University of North Carolina."

least they picked someone that didn't _go_ to UNC at any point. (davidson and princeton)

[Edited on August 16, 2012 at 3:13 PM. Reason : .]

8/16/2012 3:12:37 PM

dude's 76 years old, I know he'll have help but still.

8/16/2012 3:14:31 PM

what about me??

8/16/2012 3:15:25 PM

I dont like it.

He is NOT an outside source, simply a NC politician, republican at that.

He will be biased in some part.

The firm that was hired also has a UNC graduate on staff.

Where is the NCAA review into all of this?

When will they say that the current players are ineligible due to fraudulent classes?

8/16/2012 3:44:00 PM

^Just more vacated wins later

But yeah it would have been best to get someone completely outside of the scene. Should have gotten somebody based out of washington or the west coast or something.

8/16/2012 3:55:01 PM

are there any Clemson grads on the firm? needs to be

8/16/2012 4:05:29 PM

Firm is an accounting and management consulting firm, not sure why they should be involved.

8/16/2012 4:11:00 PM

Because they know how to audit shit

8/16/2012 4:11:32 PM

Anyone have a copy of Thorp's mass email he sent out earlier today?

8/16/2012 5:01:28 PM

http://www.unc.edu/chan/chancellors/thorp_holden/120816-update.php

8/16/2012 5:02:54 PM

^thanks.

[Edited on August 16, 2012 at 5:06 PM. Reason : .]

8/16/2012 5:05:27 PM

PS: please don't look any deeper. we promise we found it all, k?

8/16/2012 5:16:37 PM

Quote :

"This has been a year of great accomplishments "

Stopped reading

8/16/2012 5:43:08 PM

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8275928/north-carolina-tar-heels-attempting-move-academic-scandal

poorly written article.

quit beating around the bush already

8/16/2012 5:47:13 PM

wait... in order to "move on" from something, don't you first have to accept that it's actually happened?

also, good, if not old, column by another ESPN writer. didn't see it on here yet
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8243779/north-carolina-tar-heels-academic-scandal-exemplifies-ncaa-hypocrisy

8/16/2012 6:27:32 PM

^Haha, this from the guy who called someone out for not looking in this thread.


message_topic.aspx?topic=598655&page=226

[Edited on August 16, 2012 at 7:30 PM. Reason : took me all of 5 seconds to find that it is on here already]

8/16/2012 7:29:09 PM

Quote :

"“We still emphasize the academic side of it a great deal, and it will always be that way,” Williams told WFNZ. “You’re talking to a guy who absolutely loves the University of North Carolina, and it’s been that way since the fall of 1968 when I stepped on the campus. There have been some mistakes made. I don’t think you can put your head in the sand and, ‘Oh, we’re all right, it’s just people making things up.’ I’m not saying that. There’s been some mistakes made, and there’s been some serious mistakes, but I do think some of it has been a little sensationalized.”"

Cancel Christmas that sounds like a confession to me. Death Penalty

http://blogs.fayobserver.com/accbasketball/August-2012/Roy-Williams,-in-WFNZ-interview,-says-he-s-bothere

[Edited on August 16, 2012 at 8:35 PM. Reason : space]

8/16/2012 8:35:38 PM

http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/not-seeing-is-believing/Content?oid=3126646


[Edited on August 16, 2012 at 9:22 PM. Reason : ]

8/16/2012 9:20:23 PM

8/16/2012 9:55:13 PM

Quote :

"He is NOT an outside source, simply a NC politician, republican at that. "

Seeing as the Republican Party largely don't exist in Chapel Hill and most of the historical Democratic Party bureaucracy that has ran the state for almost all of the last 140 years are more tied into Carolina, he's pretty independent of influence unless you want them to hire a former director of the FBI.

Quote :

"actually, the BOG might have had to approve the salary, but so did the ACC. AFAIK, there have been two ACC exemptions granted for high salaries: Butch and Roy."

And Krzyzewski and Bobby Bowden accepted that?

8/16/2012 10:23:29 PM

Quote :

"And Krzyzewski and Bobby Bowden accepted that?"

IIRC, the exception is granted by the comish, not by popular vote of the member schools/coaches

8/16/2012 10:46:27 PM

Roy:

Quote :

"I have some very strong opinions, but as soon as I make some strong opinions, everybody decides to take their bow and arrow, their shotgun, machine gun, the bazooka and everything out."

no BB gun?

8/16/2012 11:09:39 PM

Quote :

"IIRC, the exception is granted by the comish, not by popular vote of the member schools/coaches "

No, I'm pointing out that Krzyzewski and Bobby Bowden would both be a lot higher on the totem pole than Butch Davis, so why would the ACC grant that for him and not those two.

8/16/2012 11:33:19 PM

IIRC, The salary restriction thing was a NC law for what state of NC employees could be paid.

wouldnt apply to a private college or florida college.

8/16/2012 11:42:04 PM

correct.

BOG had to Ok it. The ACC didnt have anything to do with it. Its a NC only law that applies to public schools.

they had a "closed door session" to approve Butch's salary.

All the other bits come from sponsorships and endorsements. There is no limit to that.

8/17/2012 12:12:26 AM

Not sure if this has been posted, but I thought it was pretty funny.

8/17/2012 1:04:22 AM

lol

8/17/2012 1:11:51 AM

it's just plain stupid to say the Republican party doesn't exist in Chapel Hill

when hyperbole becomes accepted fact we're truly doomed as a people

8/17/2012 7:46:11 AM

^ It's pretty much true. Not to bring too much politics into this but didn't you hear about the Amendment One results in Chapel Hill?

8/17/2012 8:19:20 AM

that was a ruse to allow UNC to pick a republican to lead the investigation

/tinfoilhat

8/17/2012 8:27:19 AM

Quote :

"IIRC, The salary restriction thing was a NC law for what state of NC employees could be paid. wouldnt apply to a private college or florida college."

Good then. That makes a lot more sense than what was said about the ACC having to approve it which would've brought up fairness of competition concerns.

8/17/2012 9:06:18 AM

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--fbc-ncaa-north-carolina-academic-fraud-investigation.html

Quote :

"The more we learn, the more it seems UNC has made a mockery of its ballyhooed academic mission for a long time in order to gain competitive advantage in football and men's basketball. With the introduction of what apparently is former two-sport star Julius Peppers' transcript into the public forum, it seems reasonable to assume that Carolina has been skating athletes through the African and Afro-American Studies Department in order to maintain eligibility for more than a decade. That cuts across multiple coaching tenures and multiple sports. And that means this isn't just a Butch Davis issue. Or a football issue. Or even a Julius Nyang'oro issue, the forcibly retired AFAM professor who has earned an infamous place in Carolina athletic lore for his involvement in so many shady classes. It's an institutional issue, and that conjures one of those NCAA catch phrases that translate to big trouble: lack of institutional control."

8/17/2012 9:58:52 AM

except the institution was in control of this every step of the way

8/17/2012 10:06:16 AM

Every time I read one of Thorp's statements, it never sounds like what I expect to hear from the chancellor of a "prestigious" university. not polished at all

8/17/2012 10:12:32 AM

Quote :

"But after hitting North Carolina last spring with a 2012 postseason ban, scholarship cuts and vacated victories, NCAA enforcement has shown no interest in returning to Chapel Hill and reopening its investigation. That's despite numerous reports during the summer indicating that academic shenanigans went on before and during that investigation."

The NCAA can't keep ignoring this can they?

8/17/2012 10:14:14 AM

Last night the WRAL 11:00 News opened with a long story about this that was pretty critical. I don't watch news on TV too often, so maybe this has been happening for a while, but I was pretty surprised at how critical they were of the situation.

[Edited on August 17, 2012 at 10:24 AM. Reason : ]

8/17/2012 10:23:15 AM

Here is a quote from SFN about the BOG exemption and that it had to do with Roy Williams hiring:

Quote :

"Williams’ contract could not be finalized until the university system’s Board of Governors allowed an exemption from certain guidelines, adopted after former UNC football coach Dick Crum and former N.C. State basketball coach Jim Valvano were given buyouts totaling more than $1.4 million. Former UNC system President William Friday decried the deal. He said it runs counter to recommendations of the Knight Commission on college sports, of which Friday is co-chair, to try to stem the tide of rising coaches salaries. "

Full story: http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2006/04/02/a-tale-of-three-coaches-how-coaching-contracts-are-structured/

[Edited on August 17, 2012 at 10:26 AM. Reason : ]

8/17/2012 10:26:01 AM

Here is another bit on it that sheds more light onto what I remembered before:

http://www.carolinasucks.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t14342.html

Quote :

"Today in Chapel Hill the UNC system Board of Governors is set to meet by teleconference, behind closed doors, to discuss a single personnel item. The UNC general administration says it won't provide any information about what will be discussed at this meeting for legal reasons. But when the Board of Governors announced a sudden, called meeting for today, it followed a pattern. The same thing happened in 2003, when UNC-Chapel Hill was negotiating a deal to make Roy Williams the head Tar Heel basketball coach. The Board of Governors decided to ignore the rules. It OK'd clauses in Williams' contract more generous than the UNC system deemed wise according to its own policy."

Quote :

"It is my understanding that the BOG let NC State know early in the search for a new basketball coach that a Roy Williams type deal would not be approved. This should come as no suprise that the BOG would bend its own rules for UNC-CH. It certainly will not be the last time. "

THAT is what I remember myself. They gave UNC a blank check to get whatever coach they wanted, then told us "Don't expect us to give you an exemption" when we had to hire Sidney Lowe. Then UNC needs a new football coach and the checkbook comes out to let UNC hire Butch at whatever pay they want to offer him; rules be damned. This is the kinda horseshit that gets me. I wonder if the new round of coaches (NCSU & UNC) got exemptions or not.

8/17/2012 10:42:14 AM

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8275928/north-carolina-tar-heels-attempting-move-academic-scandal

Look at the fucking camera, Rob

[Edited on August 17, 2012 at 10:46 AM. Reason : that headshot is way too flattering]

8/17/2012 10:46:26 AM

But then how would she read her Obama cards?

8/17/2012 10:50:19 AM

Quote :

"But in terms of what's objectionable to the NCAA – alleged systematic academic fraud over a decade or more – that strikes at the core of the entire college athletic franchise."

JIMMIES...

8/17/2012 10:52:19 AM

Discussing this right now on NPR

8/17/2012 12:13:29 PM

Quote :

" For all practical purposes UNC football is over. The NCAA won't give it the death penalty because (unlike SMU) the program wasn't on probation when the offenses occurred. However the NCAA penalties will be very severe (even more severe than the ones imposed on the program last year), and the penalties imposed by the University itself will probably be even more severe. That's more of a loss than most UNC fans realize. Fans under 50 don't care about football in Chapel Hill, but for the wealthiest of the Rams Club it's a big draw. Football pulls in a surprising amount of money. It remains to be seen how big this will be for basketball. It will definitely be ugly, but I don't think it will bring down the program completely. The biggest disaster here is for UNC funding. The North Carolina legislature dislikes public higher education in general and Chapel Hill in particular. They would love an excuse to cut funding. This scandal is going to cost a lot more than basketball wins. There will be labs closed, academic scholarships cut, classes cancelled, and top faculty poached away because the University can't match their salaries."

From a Tarheel fan on reddit

8/17/2012 12:54:58 PM