So youre not claiming any personal position, you're willing to go along with whatever the government tells you is right?

3/24/2012 12:14:31 AM

Quote :

"No, the facts are that at some point Trayvon made Zimmerman feel threatened enough to use deadly force."

Would have been valid had he not already shown himself to be unstable, racist toward blacks, and hungry for blood. Before the confrontation even happened.

3/24/2012 12:15:18 AM

So, I'f Im a member of the KKK and a black guy comes at me with a knife, I'm not allowed to shoot him with my legal gun in order to defend myself?

And so far, the state of Florida DOES think its a valid defense.

So....

[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 12:17 AM. Reason : .]

3/24/2012 12:16:47 AM

Quote :

"So youre not claiming any personal position, you're willing to go along with whatever the government tells you is right? "

3/24/2012 12:22:53 AM

I'm going by the law that is in place.

3/24/2012 12:23:48 AM

Quote :

"So, I'f Im a member of the KKK and a black guy comes at me with a knife, I'm not allowed to shoot him with my legal gun in order to defend myself?"

stawman.

This is going to come to a jury trial. In a jury trial things like the stability of the individual or the propensity of the individual to violence ARE considered. I'm not saying this was information available to the cops on the scene. The cops on the scene probably didn't even know Zimmerman violated the orders of the 911 operators. The jury will know this.

Quote :

"I'f Im a member of the KKK"

Yes, it will be considered in a jury trial. ESPECIALLY if the entire thing is about an altercation for which the court has conflicting or insufficient information.

Quote :

"And so far, the state of Florida DOES think its a valid defense."

The state of Florida is getting itself in a giant pile of shit for that exact reason.

[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 12:28 AM. Reason : ]

3/24/2012 12:27:46 AM

HAHAHA, this is really funny.

Some of you talking about this in TSB thread, but seem to leave it out of here for your own sake.


http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4

Quote :

"SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - Investigators with the Sanford Police Department are still trying to figure out exactly what happened during an altercation which resulted in a fatal shooting in the Twin Lakes area. The shooting happened just after 7 p.m. Sunday evening on Twin Trees Lane. A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities. "The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John. John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot. "And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point." On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami. "He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him." Police said the shooter, identified as 25-year-old George Zimmerman, surrendered immediately. He has been questioned, but no charges have been levied and no arrest made. Neighbors tell us that the shooter patrols the community at night and is a member of the Neighorhood Watch committee; however, police are not commenting. Read more: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1q0No9sHO"

So, there is a fucking witness that sees Trayvon on top of Zimmerman beating him, while Zimmerman is yelling for help, more than likely the same cries for help that are heard on the 911 call.

So, I suppose Zimmerman was just supposed to lay there and let this 6'3" kid just keep beating him.

Now, does it still sound like this "kid" was just gunned down in cold blood for no reason?

3/24/2012 12:29:08 AM

It's painfully clear now that you are just trolling, so I'm done with you idiots.

3/24/2012 12:32:41 AM

^^ yeah, he killed a kid minding his own business.

Not sure what aspect of this you think is okay.

If I creep behind you at night, in the rain, while I'm in my car, and im bigger than you, you wouldn't defend yourself against me? You think it's right for me to then kill you?

[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 12:34 AM. Reason : ]

3/24/2012 12:34:23 AM

Quote :

"Before unarmed black teen was shot, Fla. city’s blacks complained of bias in police department By Associated Press, Friday, March 23, 5:36 PM SANFORD, Fla. — Before the charges that police botched the investigation of the shooting of an unarmed black teen, there were complaints that they went easy on an officer’s son who beat a black homeless man, or that officers pull over black kids for wearing the wrong color hat because they suspect gang associations. The furor over the failure to charge a neighborhood watch captain for shooting Trayvon Martin to death is the latest episode to inflame racial tensions that have simmered between police and blacks in this Orlando suburb for years. And on Thursday, the department’s chief temporarily stepped aside."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/before-unarmed-black-teen-was-shot-fla-citys-blacks-complained-of-bias-in-police-department/2012/03/23/gIQAs5hoWS_story.html?tid=pm_national_pop

3/24/2012 12:35:01 AM

Quote :

"this 6'3" kid"

3/24/2012 12:35:30 AM

So you don't think a 6'3" 17yo football player could take on some 5'9in fat hispanic guy in a fight?

LOL please.

He, according to an eye witness which you people on here seem to love, is strong enough to have Zimmerman pinned to the ground on his back while on top of him landing punches.

[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 12:39 AM. Reason : ,]

3/24/2012 12:38:29 AM

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/22/trayvon-martin-case-not-as-conclusive-as-people-think-says-legal-expert/

Quote :

"Turley believes that the case is going to turn on classic criminal defence elements under common law, where an individual is allowed to use lethal force if they fear injury or death. “You lose that defence if you are the aggressor or if you do not have a reasonable basis for fear or serious harm or death. Even if he is not the aggressor there will remain the question of escalation or confrontation.” The key difficulty, said Turley, is the “maddening gap” of evidence at the critical time of confrontation. “At what point does a physical struggle justify the use of lethal force? If I was the defence counsel in the case, the first thing I would do is the trajectory of the bullet, how close it was to Martin, where it was fired.” Turley said the racial element is unclear. In the 911 tape, Zimmerman says “He looks black” and then says “he’s a black male”. “The Zimmerman family have denied any racial element. On the tape he initially appears not to know the race, but then later does. All of these elements are murky.” Nevertheless, Turley believes there was enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman and to secure an indictment. “Police would have been on solid grounds to arrest him. You have an unarmed teenager and someone who does not comply with a request that he not follow Martin. “That doesn’t mean there’s enough evidence to secure a conviction.”"

Even if the other evidence corroborates the testimony of Treyvon beating Zimmerman up (which physically doesn't paint a consistent story as others have already argued), it wouldn't be a closed case. Zimmerman could still be convicted if the jury thinks it was him who started the physical altercation. Or even just pursuing Treyvon could do that. We don't know.

[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 12:44 AM. Reason : ]

3/24/2012 12:43:42 AM

I can agree with that.

But based on the 911 call, Zimmerman was just following Trayvon and had given up the search and was walking back to his car.

We know this because he is on the phone and its all recorded.

He then says Trayvon attacked him. Which we can't prove or disprove.

Then there is a witness saying he saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman beating him up.

The witness loses sight of the altercation and hears a gun shot then sees the person who was on top doing the beating laying dead in the grass.




Now if it turns out there there is evidence that Zimmerman confronted, or innitially attacked Trayvon, then sure, he should be arrested.

But at this point that can't be proven and thats why he hasn't been arrested which is what I am arguing.

3/24/2012 12:47:40 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

Quote :

"According to T-Mobile phone records,[25] Trayvon was speaking on a cellphone at the time of the incident. Martin's girlfriend came forward, identifying herself as the other person in that conversation; she was interviewed by an attorney, who has made a statement, and her parents have requested her anonymity. The girl stated that Martin expressed concern about a "strange man" following him, and she advised him to run. She claims to have heard Martin say "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding "What are you doing here?" She stated that she heard the sound of pushing and that Martin's headset suddenly went silent, leading her to believe that he had been knocked down. She attempted to call him back immediately, but was unable to reach him.[26]"

Since Zimmerman would be using the "stand your ground" law, the question of who started it matters.

Although there is testimony that Treyvon was assaulting Zimmerman at some point, there also seems to be evidence that the first assault was not Treyvon.

Tell me how the heck that's consistent in your mind - that Treyvon is asked what he's doing there and them pushes the guy? That comes down to a courtroom question of who had the temperament to start a fight right there. We know who that is.

3/24/2012 12:48:14 AM

Quote :

"Zimmerman was just following Trayvon and had given up the search and was walking back to his car."

would be flagrantly inconsistent with Trayvon's T-Mobile call. I'm not saying your information is wrong. The evidence may validly contradict.

3/24/2012 12:51:12 AM

tacolu, do you even think the case deserves to go to trial?

3/24/2012 12:52:04 AM

Quote :

"would be flagrantly inconsistent with Trayvon's T-Mobile call. I'm not saying your information is wrong. The evidence may validly contradict."

It's in Zimmermans 911 call.

He tells the operator that he doesn't know where the suspect ran off to and he is now walking back to his car to meet up with the police when they arrive.

[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 12:53 AM. Reason : .]

3/24/2012 12:52:54 AM

^ wow, you're dumb.

You realize they weren't anywhere near Zimmerman's car when Zimmerman shot Martin?

You think Martin dragged him somewhere, beat him up, but let him pull his gun out and shoot him?

You're arguing in favor of an absurd series of events, when based on the phone calls, the witness, and the outcome, it's clear a murder was committed, and the cops didn't do anything about it.

And it wasn't blacks that painted this as a race issue, it was distraught parents decrying their sons unjust murder. By dismissing this as just whiny blacks, you've shown yourself to be the racist, that several of your posts indicate you to be.

[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 12:53 AM. Reason : ]

3/24/2012 12:52:58 AM

Quote :

"tacolu, do you even think the case deserves to go to trial? "

He thinks whatever the gov. of Florida tells him to think.

3/24/2012 12:53:46 AM

I never said he was near his car.

I said he was walking back to his car after trying to follow Trayvon.

Quote :

"You're arguing in favor of an absurd series of events, when based on the phone calls, the witness, and the outcome, it's clear a murder was committed, and the cops didn't do anything about it."

Based on phone calls Zimmerman gave up his pusuit of Trayvon, a witness sees Trayvon beating Zimemrman, and the cops haven't done anythign about it as of now because self defense cant be disproven.

3/24/2012 12:55:27 AM

Quote :

"You realize they weren't anywhere near Zimmerman's car when Zimmerman shot Martin?"

You would think this would be a fairly easy detail to determine. But then again, I'm assuming the police who arrive can at least be trusted to make testimony. If not, and if there are numerous witnesses that support a different story, then we will see a truly epic national shitstorm.

3/24/2012 12:57:25 AM

Quote :

"Based on phone calls Zimmerman gave up his pusuit of Trayvon, a witness sees Trayvon beating Zimemrman, and the cops haven't done anythign about it as of now because self defense cant be disproven."

But this witness contradicts the other witnesses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

Quote :

"A witness to the physical altercation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and beating him up, while the older man yelled for help.[37] Another witness, Mary Cutcher, has said in a TV interview that "there was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling",[38] but police say that she gave an official account to them that agreed with Zimmerman's story.[39][40] Cutcher and her roommate told CNN journalist Anderson Cooper that their own account of the incident to the police did not agree with Zimmerman's, and that they had demanded that the police retract that incorrect statement. They also said, about the police's attitude at the scene, that "they were siding with him [Zimmerman] from the start" and that they heard the pair in their backyard and a "very young voice" whining, with no sounds of a fight. They heard a gunshot; the crying stopped immediately, and they saw Zimmerman on his knees pinning Martin down on the ground.[41]"

He should have been arrested when this testimony was known. Considering that Wikipedia knows about it now, I think it's sufficient to say the cops didn't act on the information they had to arrest him when they should have.

3/24/2012 12:59:56 AM

^hahaha

Jesus Christ.

Hello KING TROLL

3/24/2012 1:02:07 AM

well then watch the video of these witnesses:

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/neighbor-trayvon-martin-shooting-wasnt-self-defense/

3/24/2012 1:05:05 AM

My last post here:

Quote :

"Peaden and Baxley, R-Ocala, say their law is a self-defense act. It says law-abiding people have no duty to retreat from an attacker and can meet “force with force.” Nowhere does it say that a person has a right to confront another. The 911 tapes strongly suggest Zimmerman overstepped his bounds, they say, when the Sanford neighborhood crime-watch captain said he was following Trayvon and appeared to ignore a police request to stay away. “The guy lost his defense right then,” said Peaden. “When he said ‘I’m following him,’ he lost his defense.” Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/20/2703579/state-senator-calls-for-hearings.html#storylink=cpy"

PRECISELY what I have been saying.

[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 1:08 AM. Reason : /]

3/24/2012 1:07:42 AM

It's not illegal to follow someone.

Quote :

"well then watch the video of these witnesses: http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/neighbor-trayvon-martin-shooting-wasnt-self-defense/ "

Point?

They only saw things AFTER the fact.

The other witness saw it HAPPENING.

[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 1:10 AM. Reason : .]

3/24/2012 1:09:42 AM

But it WILL NEGATE a legal defense.

3/24/2012 1:11:05 AM

You give up right to bypass "duty to retreat" when YOU'RE THE ONE FOLLOWING.

3/24/2012 1:11:11 AM

COMBO BREAKER!!! Felt like we need some positivity in this thread

3/24/2012 1:11:31 AM

Quote :

"PRECISELY what I have been saying."

No, the legal blog I referenced above covered this. Here are the 2 cases:

Zimmerman threw the first punch --> Guilty
Treyvon threw the first punch --> Don't know, subjective

3/24/2012 1:13:27 AM

What lead to the throwing of a first punch?

Him perusing the situation.

A good DA would crush this horseshit easily.

3/24/2012 1:14:38 AM

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

3/24/2012 1:17:08 AM

No, a good defense attorney would destroy basically every thing the prosecution throws at them.

Well, like Zimmerman, I am a free man to go do as I please.

I'm going to go enjoy the rest of my evening.

Have fun trying to argue something you are clearly mistaken about.




[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 1:18 AM. Reason : .]

3/24/2012 1:17:17 AM

Well there are 2 probabilities, and it goes against the favor of the defense.

some witnesses paint the picture of Zimmerman beating Treyvon and being on top when it ended

even if Treyvon was the aggressor it could go either way.

So if the probability of the defense winning either of these is P1 and P2, then the chance of the defense winning the trial is P1*P2. In other words, it doesn't look good. And Zimmerman has not been arrested yet.

[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 1:20 AM. Reason : ]

3/24/2012 1:20:25 AM

it doesn't even matter who was the "aggressor" in the fight

when the whole goddamn thing started because of one man electing to follow another with a weapon for no valid reason

3/24/2012 1:27:26 AM

Without the gun he would not have followed him in the first place...

3/24/2012 1:31:36 AM

Quote :

"when the whole goddamn thing started because of one man electing to follow another with a weapon for no valid reason"

lol... God is called for jury duty.

Interviews with DA
we want this guy

3/24/2012 1:44:12 AM

Who is this?

3/24/2012 9:44:23 AM

I love her.

3/24/2012 10:58:14 AM

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150612951917595&set=a.400557032594.184423.376951222594&type=1&theater

this been posted? lol

3/24/2012 4:17:26 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/video/orlandowesh-16122564/sanford-police-speak-out-in-trayvon-martin-case-28640523.html




Oh no. Now the black panthers will just have to commit more regular race based murders instead of a revenge killing.


. sorry

Quote :

"when the whole goddamn thing started because of one man electing to follow another with a weapon for no valid reason"

You forgot to research that mr Zimmerman had been helping round up thieves in a neighborhood that had dozens of thefts and a shooting in the previous months. You forgot to add that to your logic where you are desperately hoping to paint this as a white black hate crime

Oh and Chicago had 10 killings this weekend from black gangs



[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 11:20 PM. Reason : P]

3/24/2012 11:15:18 PM

Don't shoot black kids who just want to eat candy and drink soda. That is all.

3/24/2012 11:17:10 PM

You didn't watch the video did you.

Yeh I'd probably be splurting retarded race bait too if I was willingly ignorant like you too

3/24/2012 11:22:06 PM

Shut up faggot

3/24/2012 11:22:36 PM

I am not a self appointed community watch captian, if thats what your refeering to.

3/24/2012 11:23:25 PM

Oh no

Now he's angry.


Yeh logic and pure facts don't mix with people who have really emotional opinions. You will venture into a long productive life with such an interesting flawed mix of thought processing ability

[Edited on March 24, 2012 at 11:28 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2012 11:24:50 PM

3/24/2012 11:26:42 PM

I'm not sure I'm more worried about your derogatory word choice or the fact that you use 'faggot' to imply that gays are comparable to something you don't like.


you could have said 'coon/wetback/cracker' among other things. Yet your frustration allowed "faggot" to rise to the top

3/24/2012 11:32:20 PM

<3 teh fags

3/24/2012 11:33:09 PM