here is what I deduced from Harrow's "freedom" comment

It sounds to me like he is frustrated the coaching staff will not let him do what he wants to do (AND1 mixtape) or play as many minutes he wants to play. I could be wrong and his comment could mean something else entirely. If it means what I think it means then this is the kind of shit we have seen on the court ever since the Costner / Hickson days with our players acting like babies when they don't get what they want. We need a coach who can come in and kick these guys in the nuts and tell them to shut the fuck up and do what they say and don't go whine on facebook about shit.

I could be completely wrong but ...

1/26/2011 1:21:45 PM

Quote :

"Wake does not really have very good talent this year."

5- 4*
1- 5*
isn't bad talent.

1/26/2011 1:25:21 PM

I strongly doubt Harrow wants to make more Mixtapes...he probably just doesn't want someone whistling to him every play, and then halfway through the season have him complain that our guys look to him for the play too much.

1/26/2011 1:25:41 PM

Quote :

"We need a coach who can come in and kick these guys in the nuts and tell them to shut the fuck up and do what they say and don't go whine on facebook about shit."

Absolutely.

I'm starting to get the feeling that Sidney is a better friend of these guys than he is a disciplinarian and coach.

If Ryan Harrow's biggest concern after these last two games is what fans are saying about players or coaches instead of the epic collapses they've been having, then he needs to find the nearest mirror. I love the kid and he's going to be a good player, but there are obviously big problems on this coaching staff. He really needs to forget what everyone says and worry more about what's going wrong between the stripes on the floor...


[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 1:30 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 1:26:32 PM

don't get me wrong I love Ryan Harrow but someone (Lowe) needs to contain the 18 year old hormones here

1/26/2011 1:28:41 PM

Why are people worried about a Wake-like collapse? They went from making the tourny to some of the worst losses in school history. We're going from 10, 9, 11, 10 (or whatever it is) to who knows where. I'm not much concerned about going down...

1/26/2011 1:30:16 PM

here adder goes with his star argument again.

Ty Walker, 5 star according to Scout. averaging 3 points and 4 rebounds a game. the guy is terrible.

Wake does not have good talent. or coaching.

but lol at Sid being a worse coach than Dino and Paul Hewitt. that's just sad.

V lol. gotta find some way to entertain myself at work.



[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 1:35 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 1:32:56 PM

tschudi tell us how you really feel

1/26/2011 1:33:59 PM

Ty Walker was vastly overrated, but Wake has good talent. Their coach is just horrible.

1/26/2011 1:36:22 PM

This year is the first year we have even begun to sniff the level of talent necessary to compete with the likes of Duke and UNC. Most of us realize that while results have been disappointing the roster is in MUCH better shape than when Lowe took the job. We could easily revert to a Sendek style coach and be back to running a system that allows non traditional talent to be somewhat competitive.
We end up with a bzzzzzzzdick and we are back to the first 4 years of Sendek.

1/26/2011 1:37:38 PM

None of what you said makes a lick of sense

1/26/2011 1:41:38 PM

Quote :

"This year is the first year we have even begun to sniff the level of talent necessary to compete with the likes of Duke and UNC. Most of us realize that while results have been disappointing the roster is in MUCH better shape than when Lowe took the job. We could easily revert to a Sendek style coach and be back to running a system that allows non traditional talent to be somewhat competitive. We end up with a bzzzzzzzdick and we are back to the first 4 years of Sendek."

You're right

Gosh....If we're not careful, we could become one of the worst teams in the ACC.



[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 1:47 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 1:42:32 PM

At least we're going to get a good draft pick

1/26/2011 1:44:15 PM

zing

1/26/2011 1:47:42 PM

Quote :

"we could easily end up with a bzzzzzzdelick situation on our hands and that is a bad situation. That team actually has a decent talent level and it is one of the worst teams in ACC history. "

Fowler is gone. I trust Yow not to do something like [knocks on wood].

When your program shows no sign of improvement over five years with average to well above average talent, then you don't hesitate to fire because you're afraid of what the future might bring. Because right now...WE HAVE NO FUTURE. It's NITs and CBIs from here on out with Sidney. We might fuck up and make the tourney once every five years...but this ship has sailed.

Let's just try to beat UNC once this year, try to lose as few players as possible, and hire a coach with more upside than Lowe (preferably a lot more upside).

That is actually a realistic scenario I would be okay with right now.


oh...and Ryan Harrow:



[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 1:50 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2011 1:48:09 PM

I was about to say... what happens when we beat UNC saturday and take care of VT at home?

1/26/2011 1:53:10 PM

i think some of you are way over analyzing the harrow FB comments. Someone told him to "kill it" i.e. just do your thing, spin around, do crazy stuff and his response back is: "i don't have the freedom to do that anymore" i.e. to be on the court you have to take care of the ball, find your teammates, make assists, score points and PLAY DEFENSE. (Playing defense tires people out)

He is NOT whining, IMHO, he's just trying to point out, that this isn't Walton HS anymore

1/26/2011 1:56:55 PM

NC State basketball is such a headache.

Hope is what kills a fan more than just defeat. And every season we have hope because of our tradition, hype, and the talent that we bring in. We have hope that we will breakout in the NCAA and do well in the tournament.

And every season something boneheaded happens like scoring <20 pts in a half, completely giving up on a game, or an injury.

And every season we say next season

And every next season the same thing happens

Except for that one time that we got lucky and Hodge carried us to the sweet 16.

This is very frustrating, to have so much hope and then to get crushed.

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 2:00 PM. Reason : what]

1/26/2011 1:57:25 PM

As hard of a job as NC State is, I think it'll be super rewarding if someone does win here.

Our fans are some of the most passionate in the nation...for better or worse.

The really dangerous road comes when the fans simply give up and don't give a crap any more. Some did during the Sendek years and attendance never really has been quite the same. We need someone that can bring some enthusiasm back into this program...

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 2:03 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 2:03:14 PM

Quote :

"i think some of you are way over analyzing the harrow FB comments. Someone told him to "kill it" i.e. just do your thing, spin around, do crazy stuff and his response back is: "i don't have the freedom to do that anymore" i.e. to be on the court you have to take care of the ball, find your teammates, make assists, score points and PLAY DEFENSE. (Playing defense tires people out) He is NOT whining, IMHO, he's just trying to point out, that this isn't Walton HS anymore "

I think you're a little off as well.

College systems are always going to be more restrictive than high school systems. I feel like it's pretty obvious he is saying that. In high school you give your best players a lot of free reign. This is true for all good high school players. The only difference is that when you're winning and producing, you don't give a shit and you think the system is fine. But when you're losing and not playing that well, you think that maybe if you took things a little more into your own hands, then maybe you could be doing better.

1/26/2011 2:04:04 PM

regardless of how you interpet the comment (and i think that some our fans are being incredibly reasonable)

i think we here have learned from UNC that athletes need to stay the fuck away from social networking

1/26/2011 2:05:31 PM

that's fair ^ but he knows this is a different game/env as well, maybe im giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt

1/26/2011 2:06:29 PM

Harrow cant expect us to be happy with our team putting up 16 points in a 20 minute half, we have the right to bitch at shitty play. When you have a lot of 5/4 star guys it isn't going to be about feeding the ball to one player. He could go play at App where he would be a star but wouldn't get the recognition of playing with the big boys. Sid does not need to pull him when he is going off and taking tracy smith out when he is gassed couldn't hurt either.

1/26/2011 2:06:57 PM

Quote :

"In high school you give your best players a lot of free reign. This is true for all good high school players."

Coming from someone who I doubt ever played high school ball, I find this both hilarious and completely inaccurate.

1/26/2011 2:24:03 PM

Quote :

"Coming from someone who I doubt ever played high school ball, I find this both hilarious and completely inaccurate."

I played middle school and JV, fag.

But I was also not one of the better players, so I was never allowed this free reign. And if you think that Ryan Harrow has more free reign at NC State than he did in high school, then you just lost what little bit of respect of I use to have for you.

1/26/2011 2:26:45 PM

^^ I find it 100% accurate...and I've played basketball my entire life until High School.

If you have a division 1 prospect, that's pretty much thier team. You try to frame a system around him, but half the time your star ad-libs

1/26/2011 2:29:59 PM

Must be a pretty stark wake up call for all the 17 and 18 year olds who can do whatever they want on the court, then they go to college and suddenly have to learn foreign concepts like "plays" and "teamwork".

1/26/2011 2:32:21 PM

No one said they don't have plays. I think at this point you're just trying to be annoying.

If you are a High School coach with Ryan Harrow on your team with the 4 supporting dwarves, Ryan Harrow is going to be the go-to guy and there are times you just let him do his thing. You can call plays and defenses, but he's 100% the star and the rest of the team allows him to be the star.

In college, everyone is that star. You must learn to play more within a system and cannot rely solely on yourself being 10x the athlete of your comptetitors.

It's really not that hard

1/26/2011 2:36:50 PM

^^I hope you're trolling. I would normally say that you were, but it would be such a weak attempt that I honestly think that you believe what you're saying.

Nobody said that there aren't offensive systems and plays in high school basketball, but it's pretty much like this:

Quote :

"I find it 100% accurate...and I've played basketball my entire life until High School. If you have a division 1 prospect, that's pretty much thier team. You try to frame a system around him, but half the time your star ad-libs"

I feel like the only time Ryan gets to improvise is on fast breaks and very rarely in a half-court set when he sees a defense break down. You know he can do stuff with the ball, but he rarely plays outside of our systems. Which I don't think is a bad thing in general, but I can see it be frustrating for a freshman point guard who's game is centered around creating and breaking people down off the dribble.



[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 2:38 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2011 2:37:56 PM

Its more the fact that you and jbrick (mainly jbrick) are speaking in absolutes when neither of you has a firm grasp on the subject matter. Neither of you played high school ball, neither of you have much anecdotal evidence, yet you're convinced that these blanket statements hold true for every elite player in the country.

You want it to be one way...but its the other way.

1/26/2011 2:40:04 PM

Wtf are you talking about??

All I'm saying is that top-100 high school basketball players probably had more "free reign" (I'm getting tired of using this term) in high school than they do in college. What about that part are you arguing against? And please give me your experience...I forgot that you were All-State and went on to play at a major division 1 school.

1/26/2011 2:48:30 PM

I'm sure that in end of game situations all of Walton High School's plays were designed for Ryan Harrow to dish it to peg-legged Timmy for 3 from the corner.

Better yet, i bet Ryan got lectured when he took the shot instead of passing it to Harry McAirball who was standing wide open.

Ryan Harrow, and every other Div-I player, was THE man on thier team. You put the ball in your star's hands. It's not that easy in college...the system gets you shots, not the player. You have a role to play in college, notsomuch in High School

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 2:53 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 2:50:37 PM

Just try to use words like "probably" and "most likely" in your original points instead of coming across as a internet Doug Gottlieb. Your air of superiority is usually a welcome change to the typical milquetoast vibe of TWW, but it helps to have at least a semblance of knowledge on a subject before making such definite statements.

As for me? I rode the bench all three years, minus a five game stretch junior year. But at least I don't talk like I'm auditioning for the next season of Dream Job.

1/26/2011 2:55:00 PM

My air of superiority?

Quote :

"Coming from someone who I doubt ever played high school ball, I find this both hilarious and completely inaccurate."

1/26/2011 2:56:12 PM

The other guy's

1/26/2011 2:56:44 PM

Quote :

"so just so we're clear, you're still on the bandwagon Twista?"

Not really...I thought I expressed that last night...getting to the 31-12 lead, we were on the way to recruiting new people on the Sid bandwagon...then everything went to shit

I'm disappointed in Lowe...I would've been fine with a 1 or 2 point win last night...but no, it was terrible

However I'm not going to give up on the season until we're bounced from the ACC tourney, because however shitty we're playing, the beauty of college basketball is that if you get a horseshoe stuck in your ass in March, you can make some noise

If we get a horseshoe stuck in our asses and make some noise, lets say hypothetically win the ACC tourney and save Lowe's job...many will think its just prolonging the inevitable and that winning the ACC tourney is just a temporary fix to a problem that still will need solving

But if that happens, I'll be too busy enjoying the ACC tournament champions banner and filling out my NCAA bracket to give a shit

1/26/2011 2:58:07 PM

I've never seen Slave Famous so butthurt before.

He must have envied the "free reign" the star on his high school basketball team had while he had to play in a military structured system when out on the court.

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 2:58 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2011 2:58:21 PM

Quote :

"I don't approve but I've supported the hell out of Sid. Criticism on fucking TWW does not equal not supporting the man. Really tired of hearing that bs. "

Then stop acting like a total fuck head every time we lose a game. You bring up the fucking past more than some of the crackheads over on PP. You come in here with "I told you so" shit when we win. According to about 1/4 of your posts, you think the exact thing as me....which is that Sidney is in over his head and should probably be replaced if we can't turn shit around at the end of the season. In the other 3/4 of them, you sound like a crying, whiney bitch who is still pissed that the fans ran off Herb last time. Guess what...you're doing the same shit to Sidney and have been doing it for the past 4 years.

Again...it would be different if you were respectful of the man with your comments for the past 4 years and just now started getting upset...since we obviously are wasting a load of talent this season. That hasn't been the case in the past, thats why you get called out.

We all agree this shit on the floor can't continue. Lets leave it at that.

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 3:00 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 2:58:56 PM

Slave Famous

Not trying to be a prick, but did you have a division 1 prospect on your team?

If you have a team of 5 somewhat equal players, then your logic stands. I went to school with Ryan Lowery...who was a top 10 PG I believe out of High school and went on to be a bust at Florida State. Lowery ran our team. You can't tell a guy like that "That's a bad shot" becuase it's all we had...and we had a decent team around him....he was just vastly superior to our other 4-6 mediocre players.

I don't think you realize how good Ryan Harrow was in comparison to his competition. You can't tell a guy like that to pass the ball...Division 1 guys are all Kobe Bryant's in their league. Yes, they are coached to run a system, but a kid that talented can take pretty much any shot he wants and you can't really lecture him for not playing within a system....he could just run around, create his own shot, and break ankles of any mofo that got in his way.

Part of the maturation of a college player is realizing he can't do that any more. The guy guarding him is no longer a 5'5" slow goofy kid with zits....he was the star on his HS team, too


[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 3:07 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 3:01:22 PM

The frustrating thing about jbrick is that he's well spoken and generally gets his opinion across very well. 80% of the time, he's one of the better posters on this forum.

But its that 20% of the time that he's wrong, or at least not definitively right, that is his downfall. Citing anyone who opposes him as "trolling" or worse, his lack of ability to cordially disagree with anyone really brings him down to the JT3bucky level.



^ A couple fringe guys, one went to Davidson and one walked on to Vandy. The point is that they weren't given free reign in our system, and most of the teams we played didn't seem to give their stars (a few ACC and Big East guys) the freedom to improvise either. That may be the norm, or it may be an exception, but the fact remains that not all high school studs are allowed to do whatever they want. Obviously its easier to score over a guy like you or me than even the worst D1 player, but these kids aren't coming from an almost street ball atmosphere like some of you are led to believe.

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 3:09 PM. Reason : x]

1/26/2011 3:06:13 PM

I wish Josh Davis was still on this team so that he could go in and actually show these other fuckers how to hustle, even if he was more or less retarded on offense.

1/26/2011 3:07:28 PM

^^I wouldn't have called it a troll if you had actually backed up your point with any semblance of an argument. Instead you countered with:

Quote :

"Must be a pretty stark wake up call for all the 17 and 18 year olds who can do whatever they want on the court, then they go to college and suddenly have to learn foreign concepts like "plays" and "teamwork"."

You're pretty much did the same thing you're criticizing me of doing.

Now you're just making me upset because I don't like to argue with you...

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 3:09 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2011 3:09:07 PM

Understand I'm not arguing that you're wrong, even though I think you might be. I'm arguing the way you said it was "true for all good high school players" even though you had no way of knowing whether or not this was the case.

Just the facts.

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 3:13 PM. Reason : and I love to argue with you ]

1/26/2011 3:12:23 PM

Quote :

"these kids aren't coming from an almost street ball atmosphere like some of you are led to believe."

I don't think anyone thinks that.

What we're saying is that it's tough to go from the big man on campus, final shot taker, one everyone looks to in crunch time, and being 10x better than your competition to realizing your role in a college system and realizing that the guy guarding you wont trip over himself every time you try a crossover.

That's why CJ Leslie has such poor shot selection. His entire life he's been the hero and the go-to guy. In college, he's one of the last guys we want taking fadeaway 3 pointers while double teamed....we have the pieces that can do that better than he can (Which they did not on his HS team).

It's a process they need to learn, but Lowe screwed up by not yanking CJL out last night to send a message. He should not have taken 80% of the terrible shots he did.


[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 3:15 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 3:13:32 PM

Quote :

"true for all good high school players"

I actually still believe this.

But I'm also superior to most everyone here.

1/26/2011 3:14:03 PM

Quote :

"That team actually has a decent talent level and it is one of the worst teams in ACC history. "

I find it hilarious that adder knows in year one that Bzdelik isn't a good coach but in year 5 of Sidney's atrociousness he thinks he is a good coach. Bzdelik has a pretty decent record at Air Force and Colorado. Let's not act like they hired a coach with no experience. I wouldn't write him off. They lost the only PG on their roster before the season even started. But I'm sure you knew that with your basketball knowledge right? I mean Tracy Smith's injury caused us to lose by 40, what do you think Wake's PG being lost for the season cost?

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 3:16 PM. Reason : Is this guy for real or one of ya'lls alias just fucking with us?]

1/26/2011 3:14:47 PM

Quote :

"Obviously its easier to score over a guy like you or me than even the worst D1 player"

Speak for yourself. I was a lockdown defender...except in the post, because that's virtually impossible for someone of my stature.

1/26/2011 3:15:55 PM

Quote :

"Bzdelik has a pretty decent record at Air Force and Colorado."

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 3:17 PM. Reason : Overall "BCS" conference record: 10-43]

1/26/2011 3:16:11 PM

Ehh Colorado is a no-win situation. They've never been relevant.

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 3:17 PM. Reason : 15-16 is probably their best season in years]

1/26/2011 3:17:27 PM

Good points, but I think you guys are overlooking the fact that kids nowadays play more games with their AAU teams than they do with their high school squads. Between AAU and the myriad of all star games, these guys are playing with superior talents than your boy with the zits. The talent level step up from high school to college is much more gradual as a result of this.

1/26/2011 3:17:36 PM