Quote :

"Bz is a shitty shitty coach and I think most state fans would be pissed if we ended up with someone like that (and if you recognize the reality of how desirable this job is it is easy to see how we could end up with someone like that). "

I think the odds of us landing a crap coach like Bz is slim to none.

1/26/2011 8:01:23 PM

I certainly hope so but I just don't see State as a destination job for anyone who doesn't have a history here.

1/26/2011 8:27:51 PM

We should really try and squelch this whole argument of "We should keep Lowe because we might end up with Jeff Bzdelik" because (I know there is a lot of hyperbole thrown around in here but this is not one of those instances) the entire notion is above and beyond asinine. It's plain absurd to be afraid to try and replace a coach who finishes last in the ACC because you're scared of landing a coach who might finish last in the ACC. I mean if you don't even want to try to get out of the bottom of the ACC that says a lot about who you are. It's a defeatist mentality.

Just try. We have got to do something. Something else.

Edit: I'm personally VERY excited we'll be shopping around for a new coach this spring. Time to get positive!

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 8:36 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2011 8:33:09 PM

A. I don't think it is a given that we will have a new coach in the spring

B. Our last coaching change didn't go so well did it? This argument came up during the Sendek era. If we were to fire Sendek who would we get? Haters would name names like Barnes and Calipari and the Sendek supporters would explain the reasons why this job just isn't that attractive. Who ended up being right?
I just don't think everyone should be getting their hopes up for some stud coach. At best I think we will have another Sendek

1/26/2011 8:50:31 PM

You're missing my point. It doesn't matter if we end up with another Sendek, he'll be better than Lowe.

1/26/2011 8:55:57 PM

Okay although I'm fed up with how we blew that lead, I'm one of the few that wouldn't mind giving Lowe one more year to see what he could do with this team with one more year of experience.

Now having said that if we were to make a move and couldn't get a blockbuster hire (i.e. Barnes), I think that Temple's Fran Dunphy would be a decent hire. Temple has won 3 straight A-10 Tournaments as well as won the A-10 regular season last year. I've been fortunate enough to see his teams in person quite a few times. They usually play tough defense and are efficient on offense. Lavoy Allen will likely be a 2nd round pick this year, which shows he can develop talent. Temple has been one of the better mid-major programs since he took over, and has shown that they can play with the big time programs, despite not nearly having the same level of talent.

They beat Seton Hall, Georgia, Maryland, handed then #10 Georgetown their first loss of the year earlier this season, and barely lost at Villanova. They play at Duke on February 23. They probably won't win that game, but they'll give Duke a good game.

Dunphy has plenty of head coaching experience with over 400 career wins, and he'd have some contacts in the talent laden Philly and Northeast area. The one downside I see is that he is 62 years old, but hell Coach K and Roy Williams are in their 60s and they look like they'll coach for 10 more years. All we need is someone to take the solid foundation of talent that Lowe has brought in and take them to their full potential. That alone would make us an attractive job in the future.

1/26/2011 8:58:55 PM

^Give him another year with a new assistant coach to try and install some defense?

You do realize that Sendek took us nowhere but the NIT for five years (with shitty talent but most of our talent wouldn't exactly fit his offense or even get PT at this point in their careers).

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:03 PM. Reason : asdfadf]

1/26/2011 9:02:25 PM

^^Way too old.

Hell, if we're going to find our next coach at the nursing home, we should go after Tubby...who is younger than Dunphy (but still too old)

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:04 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 9:04:04 PM

Temple is a better job right now

1/26/2011 9:07:02 PM

I can tell Beetlejuice at Wake is a bad coach because I watch games and understand what the fucking coach has control over and what he doesn't. Like it or not, regardless of the W/L record, Lowe does a lot of good things in game. Pre-game motivation and defensive intensity are part of it and he's lacking THIS season, but he hasn't been consistently bad at any one thing over his career, and he always shows the ability to adjust.


Wake has no talent, and beetlejiuce does nothing to help them....say...like calling a time out here and there when his team is getting rolled....or....attempting to draw up any set play that doesn't involve one guy dribbling for 30 seconds then either passing once to a double teamed player or jacking up a fade away. That guy is fucking awful. And they play defense that makes ours look like d00k.

1/26/2011 9:07:48 PM

^^Haha.

While I enjoy making fun of people that say we should hire ridiculous names that would never come here (Stevens, Few, Anderson, Wright, etc), we would officially be the worst job in America if we got turned down for a coach to stay at Temple.

The only way I see that happening is becuase he's old, finishing out his career, and already planning to retire in that area. It's likely that he wouldn't want to uproot his family that late in his career.


[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:11 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 9:10:58 PM

^^I agree with one exception. Lowe teams seem to always be bad at forcing turnovers.

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:12 PM. Reason : asdf]

1/26/2011 9:11:52 PM

Quote :

"I agree with one exception. Lowe teams seem to always be bad at forcing turnovers."

1/26/2011 9:12:38 PM

I think Anderson would listen for the right price. Doubt Wright would. IIRC Anderson listened to georgia a few years back and is making around 1.5 at Mizzou. We're going to have to throw stupid money at one candidate like that regardless of what happens.



^^IMO we're getting better at it. We seem to be getting tons more deflections recently although a lot are coming up empty. Brown in particular has had tons of tipped balls the last few games....we just happen to knock it right to someone standing under the basket for a dunk most of the time.

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:15 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 9:14:02 PM

Quote :

"Temple is a better job right now"

Now while Temple is the 6th winningest program in college basketball, it is in noway better than NC State. Temple is similar in size to NC State, yet they only have a 10,000 seat arena which they rarely fill. The Liacouras Center, while nicer than many ACC arenas, is like comparing Riddick Stadium to Carter-Finley when compared to the RBC Center. We can pay a coach much more money than Temple. Also for the most part ACC > A10.

1/26/2011 9:19:56 PM

^^Anderson turned down over $2 mil from Georgia. I guess there's always a chance, but Mizzou is a more attractive job at the moment and I'm not even sure NC State can offer that kind of money

Hell will literally freeze over before Jay Wright becomes NC State's next head coach.

I, personally, want Turgeon.... but we missed our chance on him IMO. I think he would have crawled, hitchhiked, or walked to NC State from Witchita State had we hired him originally after Sendek, but no way he leaves a successful program at A&M to come here. He will stick around the midwest, IMO

Yow will need to find the 'next Mark Turgeon' or 'next Mike Anderson'. NC State has never really hired a big name away from anyone have they? History tells us we'll get an up and comer, and hopefully Yow has a good eye for talent. She can't be as incompetent as Uncle Jed was

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:25 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 9:22:44 PM

Quote :

"^^IMO we're getting better at it. We seem to be getting tons more deflections recently although a lot are coming up empty. Brown in particular has had tons of tipped balls the last few games....we just happen to knock it right to someone standing under the basket for a dunk most of the time. "

I agree that we seem to get more deflections this year. We just seem to stop trying to apply ball pressure after a bad bounce burns us. We are dead last in the ACC in forcing turnovers and we are traditionally one of the worst teams IIRC.
Hell even our offensive droughts can be blamed on this. Forcing turnovers is a great way to score easy points against solid defensive teams (like clemson).
I just want to see more risks taken on the defensive end.
[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:26 PM. Reason : asdf]

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:27 PM. Reason : asfad]

1/26/2011 9:26:10 PM

If we want to win big, we need to pay big. The Yankees went from being acquired by George Steinbrenner for 10 million dollars, to a billion dollar franchise b/c the man went out and got the best no matter how much they cost. The increased fan interest, TV revenue, and apparel sales would be enough alone to pay for a big name coach. See Alabama and Nick Saban.

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:31 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 9:29:22 PM

This thread is pretty much over, right?

1/26/2011 9:31:34 PM

Not a fan of dumping a shit ton of money on anyone

1/26/2011 9:37:20 PM

^^Nah not yet. End of the season dawg. It would be pretty funny after this epic meltdown if the team went on like a 9-1 run to finish the season (not that I think they have a snowball's chance of doing that).

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:38 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2011 9:37:31 PM

right now, i'm really conflicted about the coaching situation...

but aside from that, we still have at least 11 games left.

The team has looked really good... in stretches. But looked very bad in longer stretches. If they can just figure out how to stop the bleeding, abbreviate the scoring droughts, we've still got a chance of finishing in the top half of the ACC... and hanging a NIT-Champions banner in the RBC!

1/26/2011 9:37:56 PM

An NIT title may be the worst possible scenario for our program, probably set us back another 3-4 years.

1/26/2011 9:41:31 PM

^ its better to lose out early and pretend like we werent there

1/26/2011 9:45:22 PM

^^maybe but it depends...what if during the NIT, the entire team, and coaching staff, "gets it"

what if they figure out how to put together solid 40-minute games back-to-back-to-back etc

Thats a lot different picture than if they luck their way through it

1/26/2011 9:50:08 PM

nah, bunk that.

we've got the 17th youngest team in the nation...

and tracy is still out of shape, and hopefully cjw will continue to demonstrate this re-found confidence into his senior season.

(my comments have nothing to do with sid or his credibility)

1/26/2011 9:51:31 PM

Quote :

"The team has looked really good... in stretches."

I guess my counter would be, "when have we looked really good?" Defensively for about 33% of the game against Syracuse (offensively we were still atrocious)? A half against a terrible Miami team? A game against what might turn out to be one of the worst three teams in the entire history of the ACC in Wake Forest?

In my estimation, we've looked "really good" in one game. That is against George Mason. Since that time, I can't say I've been impressed by a single game, even our wins.

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:54 PM. Reason : and actually, the more I ponder it, wf might actually be the worst team in acc history.]

1/26/2011 9:53:15 PM

we looked really good the first 15 minutes last night, with our 31-12 lead on the road, in case you missed it

you can't take "in stretches" and turn it into entire games and argue against it

1/26/2011 9:53:57 PM

If that's not credibility I don't know what is!

1/26/2011 9:55:00 PM

Cool. I think we were pretty dominant against Duke from halftime until the under 16 minute TV timeout in the second half. Extend his ass.

1/26/2011 9:55:04 PM

I'm excited. I get to agree with NYM for a change.

1/26/2011 9:56:15 PM

On paper this is the most talented team we've had since the sweet sixteen team. If your comparing potential talent then it exceeds that team. Lowe doesn't have any control over his team and doen'st teach discipline. It's that simple. This is literally one of the worst coaching regimes in the history of NC State sports.

1/26/2011 9:56:27 PM

i'm not the one quoting people saying "we look good in stretches" and then arguing something completely different

no shit we haven't looked good for 40 minutes all season, thanks for the great insight JaybeeInASuit

1/26/2011 9:56:56 PM

What a quality post for such a young newb.^^



[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:58 PM. Reason : not you Arnold]

1/26/2011 9:57:23 PM

Even the Les Robinson era was better than this.

1/26/2011 9:58:00 PM

^[no]
^^[no deal]

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:59 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2011 9:58:25 PM

I figured that when someone would try and make a point about how we look good "in stretches" that would mean a bit more than a few minutes in one half of one game.

I guess I just don't see the relevance of that unless it carries over from game to game. Hell, at this point, I'd take our team not being schizo from half to half... or even from timeout to timeout.

Maybe I'm out of line.

1/26/2011 9:59:20 PM

Certainly we have better teams than the Les era, but Les was a better coach. No doubt in my mind. And yes, I was at Reynolds for the Campbell and Florida International losses.





[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 10:03 PM. Reason : He coached circles around Valvano while at East Tenn St]

1/26/2011 10:00:09 PM

it does carry over from game to game

we play well for a 10 minute stretch, then we shut the bed for a 20 minute stretch

1/26/2011 10:00:52 PM

nym, i said "... really good in stretches." and continued to say "... very bad in longer stretches."

you don't think we played at least 15mins of "very good" ball against clemson last night? and some very good stretches against miami? and duke? and georgetown? and syracuse? and wf (yes, i know they are very terrible)?

(my comments have nothing to do with sid or his credibility)

EDIT

nym, it's been more than "a few mins of one half of one game", sheesh. and i thought it was pretty obvious that i wasn't trying to say we're "very good" or anything. i'm just trying to inject some semblance of optimism. there are 11 games left!!!

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 10:10 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 10:05:46 PM

Your right Les's record is worse but he literally had no players due to the infractions left from Jimmy V. If there's anything sports has taught me this year. I.E. Cam Newton and ohio state this year, USC a few years ago. Maybe we need to start cheating again.

1/26/2011 10:10:37 PM

^who's controlling this name?

1/26/2011 10:12:16 PM

<Hey now> most of my posts came in this thread. Like you (I believe since you were in attendance at those games mentioned above) I am of an older wolfpack nation than alot of the current members. That shows you just how bad this crap is getting. My other posts came last year when I then was calling for Lowe's head. Last year, the excuse was we can't get rid of him because of the recruiting class. That was the same crap that Herb pulled. We had to keep herb so Costner would come here. If a coach sucks you can't keep him. It's that simple.

1/26/2011 10:16:17 PM

grammar lessons needed up in this bitch.

1/26/2011 11:00:09 PM

has NC State been ranked in basketball during Lowe's tenure?

1/26/2011 11:04:53 PM

umm, i doubt it.

actually, maybe beginning of year after our ACCT/NIT run his first year?

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 11:10 PM. Reason : can't remember.]

1/26/2011 11:09:19 PM

i still doubt it

1/26/2011 11:11:26 PM

yea, me too.

1/26/2011 11:18:25 PM

Nah we were ranked #24 in one poll for a week early on in Sid's second year.

1/26/2011 11:20:58 PM

was probably a preseason hype ranking

1/26/2011 11:22:13 PM