26

3/28/2008 2:04:29 PM

Quote :

"what am i missing? i realize i'm being a bit flippant about the stipulations and such - do you have any other suggestions? any other avenues of approach that might be better for both parties involved?"

what you are missing is having a real estate agent

as in get a buyers' agent now before you even consider talking to the seller

i also wouldn't buy a fsbo house, but that's just me...well not really since almost all fsbo houses get listed with an agent after 90 days or so

[Edited on March 29, 2008 at 11:02 AM. Reason : sdfd]

3/29/2008 10:59:14 AM

either get a real estate agent or get a lawyer.. neither is free, both are worth it.

3/29/2008 1:27:16 PM

Quote :

"what you are missing is having a real estate agent"

is there a reason for this statement, or is it just an attempt at the justification of the existence of real estate agents in general?

Quote :

"as in get a buyers' agent now before you even consider talking to the seller"

again, why? are you saying it's impossible to do business without one, or that there's a 100% chance i'll get screwed if i don't have one?

Quote :

"i also wouldn't buy a fsbo house, but that's just me...well not really since almost all fsbo houses get listed with an agent after 90 days or so"

this is pretty stupid on your part...what's wrong with an FSBO house? i can go ahead and tell you that if it's FSBO on one day, and then in 24 hours it's represented by an agent, the house itself hasn't changed...or do you think real estate agents confer magical powers to the homes they represent?

look, guys, i have nothing against real estate agents at all (in fact, i specifically TRIED to find the one i worked with years ago, but she's no longer around), but saying i NEED an agent is like saying you NEED someone to write HTML for you...paying someone to do something you can learn on your own is all fine and well, but it by no means confers NECESSITY

my parents have managed to buy 3 homes in the past decade without agents on either end, and i have 2 friends who have just recently gotten their homes FSBO...granted, these are only 5 individual instances, and i'm sure the rest of the world who doesn't use a real estate agent is probably heaving collective sobs over their lack of foresight, but please don't give me a bunch of horseshit about NEEDING a real estate agent

the first time is going to be a bit confusing, but i'm quite sure i'll survive, despite your dire warnings that i can't possibly handle it without a $5k tour guide...a lawyer will have to look over the contract i'm drawing up (really, it's just filling in the blanks on a 2-T...the lawyer is a friend at my church, and she's going to look at it for me tomorrow for free), but it doesn't seem that complicated...and, of course, a lawyer will need to be present for the closing (and they have their own lawyer, i assume, who will go over the contract with them), but i'm asking you to calm down, take a deep breath, and realize that real estate gets handled every day without real estate agents raking in money for presiding over the transaction

and besides, what left is there for an agent to do when i've already:

- found the house
- conducted an initial walk-through
- conducted a second walk-through with a licensed contractor (friend) who does remodels and renovations
- had the loan approved
- arranged for a lawyer (again, friend) to look over the contract i've filled in the blanks on
- arranged for earnest money
- arranged for an inspector and appraiser (if the contract is signed by the seller)
- arranged for a lawyer to preside over the closing (if, hopefully, it comes to that)

tell me again what i'm missing that's worth $5k? the only thing that i can think of that would be nice is to have a go-between, so that i'm not making the offers face-to-face with the seller (it's a little awkward, haggling over so much money, but for what it would cost otherwise, i think i can handle it)

again, i'm not saying real estate agents are sharks or worthless or whatever...i'm just saying that just because some of YOU need them (or, rather, feel that you do), doesn't mean they're really necessary...in fact, assuming all goes well (because, let's face it, it might not), i'll happily post, in detail, the process i went through at each step - from finding a house to buying a house - without the use or help of a real estate agent

3/29/2008 2:19:00 PM

[quote]I guess it depends what level of assistance you want.

The lawyer is going to charge you for whatever services they provide.

It looks like a Realtor is out since you are both pretty much representing yourself and there is not mechanism here to pay one. If you want an agent maybe you can find one to represent you and bill it to your side of the transaction. I am sure you could find someone to help you with paperwork and negotiations for a flat fee or 1% or something. Especially since you have already found the house and met the seller.

You can also dig up sample real estate contracts or buy a pack of them at an office supply store. I just googled "nc offer to purchase .pdf" and found something you could probably use. I am not gonna post a link but I am sure you can find it.[quote]

Here is another tidbit to consider about buying that FSBO. Let's assume for arguments sake that if he listed the home 5% would go to comission. (yes I know there are cut rate brokers that do it for less, but remember the golden rule about you get what you pay for)

This guy who is selling the house has given it an asking price based on god knows what research, usually FSBO sellers just pick a price they think the home is worth without looking at any data. He is trying to save money by not listing the house, which he is completely with in his rights to do. For your purposes though, why should you let him keep 5% over what everyone else who sells a house does. You might either want to bring in some representation and ask him to pay for it or at least drop the price to account for the increased liability and effort required from you to buy it like this. You are doing way more work than you would to buy it if it were listed. You are going to spend money on a lawyer and face all this uncertainty because neither of you have an agent.

The other thing is looking at the comparable sales to figure out what to offer. If you had a buyer agent they could help you with that better than anyone. The buyer agent also would have all the forms and expertese to help you make a much more educated decision.

3/29/2008 3:23:01 PM

^ you raise some good points (and thank you for the guidance in finding the right forms, i appreciate it)

to be fair, i don't think i represent your average buyer (the kind without an agent)...my friend who does remodeling and renovations usually works for real estate companies (a few around here, actually ) - i think he has a fair understanding what home around here are worth (of course every neighborhood is different), but he also checked with a few of his contacts at the companies he works for to see what they thought about the home...based on tax value (which, i know, is not a fair representation of market value), homes in the same area, and homes of similar size/land in other areas, i think i'm good...i have a lot of reliable and knowledgeable contacts, and i've certainly used all the favors i had available to me

again, i'm not saying real estate agents are bad or useless...i WANTED one, but since i couldn't use the one i wanted, and because i wasn't originally planning on buying a home (this was sort of spur-of-the-moment), a realtor simply didn't make sense...i'd probably look for one if i had a much more planned and laid-back move in the future, but for now, i think it's a good learning experience to do it on my own (and yes, i'd prefer it didn't cost me thousands due to ignorance)

3/29/2008 4:42:52 PM

You clearly don't know what you're doing was my main point. You found a house that you like and think you know what to pay for it and are ready to sign a something. Excellent, but that's not really going to serve you in the long run.

- the agent isn't going to cost you anything (don't get into but the seller will raise the price - i'll shorten the counter points that's not how it works at all and you wind up with a better price most of the time)
- you want somebody who knows what they are doing representing your interests in the transaction
- people don't buy FSBO because the sellers don't know what they are doing and the transactions are usually a mess and have a tendency to fall through or worse, close and then find out about something that was supposed to be disclosed, but wasn't because nobody involved knew

there's not a 100% chance you'll get screwed or have a problem, but it's a lot lower if you have an agent involved, and again, it DOESN'T COST YOU ANYTHING

3/29/2008 5:31:40 PM

Fellow Wolfpackers,

Being a Realtor, I think it would be costly decision to try to broker a real estate transaction on your own. Not saying that it can't be done because there are FSBO's that are successful. First of all, Realtors apply their knowledge and expertise to many transactions weekly. The same skills are practiced often so there isn't a panic when a negative issue occurs. Also, the Offer to Purchase and Contract was just updated a few months ago and there are some gray areas in the contract. Sure, an attorney can help you understand the forms but he/she doesn't have expertise about the market. The market here is constantly changing the past year and that can be a difference in someone losing thousands which they thought they were saving by not listing with an agent. For some reason Compensation is always an issue when it comes to Realtors. If you had brain surgery, would you try to negotiate the fee with the doctor who was performing it. No, because you want the best service or care. Why go to work everyday worrying about a Real Estate transaction when there are trained professionals who perform the same duties often.

Also, buyer's don't have to pay Realtors a fee for their service. All a buyer has to do is hire a Realtor to help them thru the Home Buying Process to a smooth closing. There is so much work done behind the scenes before and after the home goes under contract. Realtors must do extensive background check on a home because 100% of the liability falls on us. We have access to the comparable properties and the NC Appraisal Guidelines. The NC Appraisal Guidelines is a guide to help you make adjustments to the price if there are any differences when comparing 2 properties. How will you buy or sell a home when you don't know the true value of it. But remember you get what you pay for.

3/29/2008 5:32:48 PM

DRTAYLOR,

You are making valid points. I think this is a very good discussion because many people are unaware of the many factors involved in buying or selling a house. Its not limited to helping the buyer find a house, fill out the paperwork, get the home inspected/repaired, and then close on the house. This will probably be the biggest investment you will ever make so it wouldn't be wise to risk thousands of dollars because of a few threads you read on here. Get some knowledge from a trained professional and then make a decision. Matter of fact, I will help you with no strings attached.

3/29/2008 5:45:25 PM

Realtors are overpaid and worthless

3/29/2008 6:46:13 PM

i wouldn't argue that point about the majority of them on a personal level, that's why you need to find somebody who knows what they are doing and that you are comfortable with, but as far as the professional function goes i'd say they're good to have around

3/29/2008 7:50:38 PM

OMG WHAT DID PEOPLE DO BEFORE REALTORS THERE IS NO WAY A PERSON COULD POSSIBLY BE SMART ENOUGH TO DO THIS ON THEIR OWN PLEASE SAVE US FROM OURSELVES

really, all drtaylor is convincing me of right now is that i'm glad i'm doing this on my own and not dealing with people who think that they're single-handedly saving all us dumb people from the big bad world

Quote :

"Matter of fact, I will help you with no strings attached."

you know, that's a nice offer, but i (personally) wouldn't feel right doing that...having knowledge and experience that i don't is worth money, and i'm happy to pay it...but even 1% is high, in my opinion, especially since no one on here knows how much i'm looking to spend...i've done all the work thus far, and i'm quite sure that i'm capable of seeing it through to the end (though i DO understand the value of advice and guidance)...1% is just too much, in my humble opinion, for someone to say "yep, you've done everything right so far, good job"...of course, if they were to say "no, you're doing this all wrong, let me show you why", it would be worth it, but i'm just not ready to gamble on it

*shrug*

[Edited on March 29, 2008 at 10:45 PM. Reason : .]

3/29/2008 10:40:47 PM

I did a FSBO.
I advertised that I was looking for a house. Searched through a lot of B.S. Finally, a lady contacted me about a house that looked promising. We talked things through and worked out a deal."

We ended up paying a realtor a nominal fee just to walk us through the paperwork side of things. I probably wouldn't do this now, but for the first house it was absolutely crucial.

Honestly, I knew more about this area and this house than the seller and the realtor combined.
I made an offer that was about $5k less than I wanted to pay and $10k less than I was willing to pay
The seller accepted my offer without even countering it. From there I was eager to get it all in writing and make it happen asap. The appraisal was in my favor and neighborhood comps have shown that I made a good decision.

I would not suggest a FSBO unless you really know what you are doing. You have to know what the house is worth in it's current state as well as what kind of work you'd have to do to sell it to someone else. You have to know what work you can do and what you'd have to pay to get done. It's all a numbers game, but in every transaction there is a winner and a loser. If you aren't 100% sure that you are the winner you need to back out and go the traditional route.

Sounds like you are confident in your decision and that's a good place to be. I still suggest getting a realtor to walk you through your first home even if you have to pay them $750 for two afternoons of their time. They can actually have a lot of insight about what you need/don't need and who you can trust for inspections/titles/etc.

[Edited on March 30, 2008 at 12:53 AM. Reason : l]

3/30/2008 12:48:35 AM

Quote :

"Sounds like you are confident in your decision and that's a good place to be. I still suggest getting a realtor to walk you through your first home even if you have to pay them"

hey Skack can i sign up for your internet interpersonal skills class? i said the same thing, but obviously didn't get it across in the same way.

my first buying experience was new construction with a national builder and we didn't have an agent because we figured it couldn't be that different and had done all the research you could do - after 7 years or so experience in real estate between the wife and i and being involved in some capacity with hundreds of transactions and numerous builders, developers, agents, attorneys, and everything else there is a lot we could have gained by having somebody involved that first time around, but had no idea because we just didn't have the experience to know otherwise

buying or selling a house is hard enough, trying to go back and sort that transaction out after the fact if something didn't turn out as expected, especially on your own is a pretty serious task

it doesn't hurt to at least talk to somebody

3/30/2008 9:29:00 AM

http://www.fmrealty.com/site/property/listing.asp?mlsID=986241&rNum=D01886&street=star+drive&whichpage=1

friend of mine put his house on the market

3/31/2008 8:27:27 AM

Anyone been scouting the southwest durham area? Specifically what I call the DMZ -- south of 40, and between 55 and 751.

3/31/2008 9:29:52 AM

I live near there.... off of 55 in some townhomes, but north of 40.

What are you scouting for?

[Edited on March 31, 2008 at 9:42 AM. Reason : oops]

3/31/2008 9:41:21 AM

yeah, I totally left out an entire sentence there.

I've found plenty of existing homes for sale via MLS, and looking for info on new neighborhoods. My wife and I really like the Southampton neighborhood by Orleans, and there are dozens of others popping up.

found several via google, but looking for any experiences of people who either live in the area or are also looking at homes in the area.

3/31/2008 10:22:54 AM

Ive read that with good credit, certain lenders will waive the requirement of PMI on a >80% loan. My credit is pretty good, so I feel like Id probably qualify if it was offered...just wondering if anyone knew who would and wouldnt do this.

4/7/2008 2:45:51 PM

my dad's bank in burlington has 3.9% home loans...

for "qualified buyers"...i'm not sure what they deem as "qualified", but it's posted all over the place there.

4/7/2008 2:49:30 PM

I've never heard of this, but I have heard they can roll the pmi into the loan which may confuse some into thinking that their loan doesn't have pmi.

4/7/2008 2:50:01 PM

looking forward to my VA loan guarantee

4/7/2008 2:50:22 PM

^^^ How about a qualified refinancer?

How are you getting a VA loan?

[Edited on April 7, 2008 at 2:51 PM. Reason : ]

4/7/2008 2:50:29 PM

^^^^How about what is the name of the bank?

^^^I dont think thats it...I googled "mortgage insurance 'how to get out of'" and found it mentioned on ehow...and I almost feel like someone I talked to mentioned it as well (possibly someone with Daylight Discount Mortgage that a few people on here had great things to say about).

4/7/2008 3:01:38 PM

You can get out of it if you use a piggyback loan.

4/7/2008 3:03:05 PM

i THINK this is the bank

http://www.premierfcu.org/ASP/home.asp

they don't have 3.9% on the website though, it's 4.75% or something on there

4/7/2008 3:03:43 PM

^ That 4.75% is on a home equity line of credit. That's basically putting your home up as collateral on a loan. If you default on the loan they take your home.

They don't appear to have their mortgage rates on the website. I doubt they're anything special though.

4/7/2008 3:48:10 PM

oh ok i didn't read that part on the site. it may be the wrong one anyway. i'll ask my dad tonight and post any info that i get.

4/7/2008 4:14:09 PM

Quote :

"dont believe the hype on secu for a mortgage. the only useful loan they have is a 2 yr arm and nobody wants an arm right now. their arm rate is almost the same as everybody else's 30 yr fixed rate. then, their 30 yr fixed is over .5% higher than market."

Just looking at their website, and their ARM rate is 4.25% with 90% LTV...no one is even close to that on a 30 year fixed. Their 30 year fixed is 6% with 90% LTV...6.5% without...so maybe a little higher if you need 100% financing, but none of these options require PMI, which is more significant.

4/8/2008 1:42:45 PM

^ truth...i just applied for (and was approved for, of course) their 2-year ARM for first-time home buyers (my credit score, according to them, is 790, for what it's worth):

- 100% of purchase price
- initial of 4.25%
- 1% cap (up or down, but who are we kidding?) every 2 years
- no PMI
- no down payment
- no early pay-off fees (though i guess that's pretty much standard)

so, 2 years from now, the WORST my interest rate could be is 5.25%...4 years from now, the WORST my interest rate could be is 6.25%

SECU's 30-year fixed is 6%, with down payment and PMI...i know ARMs are the big bad word in the loan world, but i can't possibly figure out what the disadvantage is...what's the worst that happens? before 6 years is up, i re-finance? my closing costs are being paid by the seller and neither of us used an agent - so this whole thing will cost me (up front) a whopping $250 for the appraisal and $400 for the inspection...and before those 6 years are up, i'm saving a good bit of money on low interest rates...i'm not planning on being there longer than 4 years or so anyway (though things change)

that brings up another question, though...anyone have a suggestion of a good inspector around here?

[Edited on April 10, 2008 at 9:04 AM. Reason : .]

4/10/2008 9:03:56 AM

I paid $285 for my inspection last month

Alvin Leach
Southern Home Inspections, Inc.
1204 Linton Court
Cary, NC 27511
(919) 469-1792

4/10/2008 9:23:04 AM

^ did you walk around with him? i realize a lot of people don't do that, but i'll be taking a half day to actually walk with the inspector...how nitpicky was he? did he explain things to you as he went along (i think i have a better basic knowledge than your average buyer, but i'm by no means an expert...having someone who shares his experience is always nice)?

4/10/2008 9:24:54 AM

I bought a new house so there were not many things wrong with it. This was my first inspection but he seemed nitpicky to me. He was recommended to me by my agent. I did not walk around with him but I could have. If you would like I can send you my report so you can see for yourself.

4/10/2008 9:30:45 AM

ron coddington is the best inspector i've ever dealt with.

i've used him twice and will only use him from now on.

if you call him, tell him that chris moody referred you because he likes to know that he gets business word of mouth.

http://activerain.com/coddingtonhi

4/10/2008 9:44:09 AM

why would you not walk with the inspector?

4/10/2008 9:44:56 AM

Quote :

"i know ARMs are the big bad word in the loan world, but i can't possibly figure out what the disadvantage is"

Like I said in the other mortgage rate thread, the difference between the ARM rates and the fixed rates are sometimes very close. It just so happens right now is not one of those times. Also, a lot of the bad stories you hear about arms are mortgages with very low teaser rates and much higher caps. Some of which have you paying even less than the interest each month.

4/10/2008 9:45:00 AM

^^^ Is your brother Dustin?

4/10/2008 9:45:35 AM

^^^

I walked around with him after he was done but not while he was checking every little thing like going under the house.

4/10/2008 9:48:52 AM

Quote :

"he seemed nitpicky"

I would hope so.

4/10/2008 9:49:51 AM

that makes sense

i was thinking more along the lines of "yeah i just read the paperwork later"

which, would be missing out on a ton

4/10/2008 9:49:55 AM

Quote :

"^^^ Is your brother Dustin?"

yep. dustin is 2.5 years younger than me, but 2.5" taller.

4/10/2008 9:58:43 AM

biological brother?

4/10/2008 10:00:01 AM

yep

4/10/2008 11:24:30 AM

interesting...

4/10/2008 11:27:29 AM

Anyone ever use NC VIP Home Inspections?

4/10/2008 2:43:55 PM

Quote :

"SECU's 30-year fixed is 6%, with down payment and PMI"

Their website said no PMI for 30-year fixed, but it could be inaccurate.

I did find out their first-time home buyer ARM has no origination fee, and apparently no requirement of 90% LTV to get the lower rate?

If I was to go ARM and then refinance later, how much are we looking at to refinance?

4/10/2008 2:51:23 PM

I will never understand why a person would not hire a professional to help them through the largest investment of their entire life.

for the record, I am a licensed broker, although I do not practice full time (I am a general contractor). I probably felt the same way as some on here, i.e...realtors are worthless, I can do it on my own, etc, etc. however, after having the schooling and seeing all of the potential problems and major fuck ups you can encounter it scares the shit out of me that people who have never been through the process ONCE want to do it alone.

seriously...hire a professional...at least through the first time you buy. you have a lot to lose.

4/10/2008 3:20:24 PM

it's not that difficult, kids

i'll send anyone a fill-in-the-blank 2T (offer to purchase from july 2007) in PDF format (as in, it's fillable on the computer and you print it out) if y'all are interested

also, there's a really nifty document (2G) that TELLS you how to fill out the 2T, and what each section means...i can send you that, as well

i admit, i've yet to close, and i've received a lot of advice from people on here and from friends/family who have bought houses in the past...but so far, if you know the area you're buying, and aren't a complete idiot (take a look at comparable homes, both in and out of the neighborhood), you can get a pretty good idea of what's going on

i'm sure a number of you are hoping i'll really fuck myself over and come crying to tdub about how i should have gotten an agent from day one, but i don't think that's going to happen (it could, though...just don't hold your breath)

also, anyone who's interested, i'll tell you about my experiences thus far if you're looking at a FSBO (because, really, if they already have an agent, you might as well get one, too...if it's FSBO, don't waste thousands upon thousands of dollars when you can do it yourself)

[Edited on April 10, 2008 at 3:43 PM. Reason : .]

4/10/2008 3:42:36 PM

One of the problems with FSBOs is that if they're too cheap to pay an agent they're probably trying to get everything they can for the house. That's not always the case, but it's something to be aware of.

And while I don't feel like looking back at the forms, I did find it to be fairly straightforward. Still, I came up with a ton of questions about potential caveats on the forms and it was nice to have someone to explain it all.

I don't have any friends or family that I felt were any more qualified to answer my questions than myself. So yeah, the $500 we paid that agent was pretty nice.

4/10/2008 11:40:21 PM

^^ agreed.

If you are willing to do it yourself without a buyers agent, then first go to all the FSBO's you can find.

Then, get a buyers agent who lives in the area ONLY once you have seen all the FSBO's that are available. Also, when hiring said buyers agent, insist upon a clause that you do not want he/she to show you any FSBO's properties, and that if you find one on your own during the period of your agreement with the buyers agent, you will not be required to use the buyers agent in negotiating the property.

This would give you flexibility.

HOWEVER ... You CAN get away with not using a buyers agent even when the seller has a sellers agent, and in SOME cases, this could be to your advantage. The house we just purchased, had been on the market for 6 months, and the parents of the owner wanted to just sell it (they cosigned for some stupid reason) and so they were very motivated to sell, as was the sellers agent, so he actually cut his commission down to just 1% in order to land the house. Had we not had a buyers agent, we woulda been able to get it for even less.

Also new homes are more willing to negotiate with you if you dont have an agent, because most of them pay HUGE payouts to buyers agents and therefore dont like to negotiate.

4/11/2008 7:16:32 AM