message_topic.aspx?topic=618243

11/2/2011 7:44:53 PM

Is anyone ITT actually on welfare

11/2/2011 8:41:34 PM

Quote :

"the fact that this thread is over a month old just goes to show that the OWS movement is winning."

What changes have been made because of OWS?

11/2/2011 8:50:08 PM

they are winning because they have an excuse not to bathe and go to work.

11/2/2011 8:50:58 PM

^^ banks backed off debit card fees.

11/2/2011 8:59:43 PM

i guess they should all go home

11/2/2011 9:00:45 PM

Didn't need no welfare states everybody pulled his weight, gee our old Lasalle ran great, those were the days!"

11/2/2011 9:32:40 PM

General Strike in Oakland

http://twitpic.com/7a2d7m

Move your Money

http://moveyourmoneyproject.org/

The media is talking about corporate greed and wealth disparity instead of cutting the safety net.

11/2/2011 10:03:09 PM

WHERE WERE THE ADVISORS!?!

11/2/2011 11:57:32 PM

^scrub frog.

11/2/2011 11:59:22 PM

ahahah ^^ <3

[Edited on November 2, 2011 at 11:59 PM. Reason : h]

11/2/2011 11:59:36 PM

That's literally Herman Cain's economic advisor

11/3/2011 12:09:29 AM

Quote :

"Our mistake was that we followed the advice of all the trusted adults in our life who were so thoroughly indoctrinated themselves that they somehow missed that their fucking mickey mouse crisis-factory economic system might not be actually stable enough to support an entire nation of college-educated professionals at the usual levels of first-world opulence. Our seniors waltzed into careers with qualifications that include things like breathing, two-finger typing, draft-dodging and "white person", and now that they spend their days still not being able to get into their fucking e-mail and stealing interns' ideas they have the nerve to call young people "self-entitled" because they actually don't want to spend their most attractive years grinding their bones into dust in humiliating wage-slave careers that will never earn them any respect anyway."

11/3/2011 12:41:04 AM

11/3/2011 11:48:12 AM

Man, I think a mother flippin' RIOT is going to break out in Oakland soon.

11/3/2011 1:59:59 PM

Yeah, I was just reading about Oakland. Apparently the had to close their port yesterday.

11/3/2011 2:29:16 PM

^^agreed

Shit is getting ugly fast

11/3/2011 2:45:58 PM

When you think about it...


There is no solution.


There is no way these people are going to get free money.
There is no way rich people are going to give up their money.


There was a study that says even if you distribute the wealth evenly, it'll only take 5 to 9 years for 5% of the population to own 95% of the wealth again.


Also, if the government takes the rich's money through taxes, the government will squander the money. The government needs to be fixed before any money is taken. Meaning... they can't spend more money than they have.

Even if you give the government $80 trillion, we'd STILL be in debt. Why? Because we don't have anyone that's fiscally responsible in government.

[Edited on November 3, 2011 at 2:54 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2011 2:51:38 PM

Stunning analysis.

11/3/2011 2:57:01 PM

time to bring out the fire hoses and beat down on all the unarmed liberals.

its their choice to be unarmed

11/3/2011 3:02:37 PM

HACK THE UNIVERSE

11/3/2011 3:08:42 PM

you're being stupid, but hacking the universe is in the opposite direction of the way occupywallstreet is going. ows is pretty barbaric.

We've come all this way and people still put their 7 deadly sins ahead of what's right.

[Edited on November 3, 2011 at 3:12 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2011 3:11:55 PM

Was in downtown Oakland yesterday during the day and marched to the port in the early evening.

Everybody I saw was peaceful and the atmosphere was actually convivial. People were giving out free food and water and there were lots of families with kids. What happened after most people left was due to some opportunist anarchists, not typical Occupyers. Oakland residents are generally pissed that our city was trashed by a bunch of idiot out-of-towners with an unrelated, violent, agenda.

But none of you were here, or saw what happened, so go on and keep reading whatever the media is saying. It's pretty far from accurate though...

11/3/2011 8:02:42 PM

Quote :

"the fact that this thread is over a month old just goes to show that the OWS movement is winning."

winning, or getting frustrated that they're going nowhere and are now acting out like the petulant children they are?

the entitlement culture and attitudes among this lot are repulsive, to be honest. they started with at lease one legitimate gripe about corporate corruption in politics, but now they're seen as laughable tantrum throwers. i don't think anyone is empathizing with them or taking them seriously any longer. i know i'm not.

11/3/2011 8:23:25 PM

cool story bro

11/3/2011 8:24:03 PM

^^ Are you describing OWS or the Tea Party?

Quote :

"Our seniors waltzed into careers with qualifications that include things like breathing, two-finger typing, draft-dodging and "white person""

Sadly this describes a lot of my past bosses.

[Edited on November 3, 2011 at 8:28 PM. Reason : a]

11/3/2011 8:28:44 PM

Quote :

"i don't think anyone is empathizing with them or taking them seriously any longer"

how does it feel to be wrong?

11/3/2011 8:29:31 PM

Quote :

" ^^ banks backed off debit card fees."

Wrong. Try again.

11/3/2011 8:36:57 PM

I think he means Bank of America dropped the $5/month debit fee.

11/3/2011 8:37:45 PM

I know. That had very little to do with ows. Plenty of people sitting on their couches calling BOA threatening to close accounts had more to do with them pulling the fee.

11/3/2011 8:39:28 PM

lol true. DE TUK OUR ACCOUNTS

11/3/2011 8:40:12 PM

Quote :

"^^ Are you describing OWS or the Tea Party?"

one and the same.

both are the dregs of America. similar to the occupy idiots, the teabaggers initially started out with a coherent and reasonable message only to subsequently succumb to the pull and influence of the party they were most closely aligned with ideologically. look at how they (ows) are already being geared up to be used as another talking point/pawn in the upcoming election by the current administration.

the only advantage the teabaggers have over the petulant occupy idiots is that they're much better organized and have/had a much better grasp of how to spin the canons of construction of current state laws and legislation in their favor.

they're opposite ends of the spectrum in regards to how they fit into the banal two party system, with common threads of good ideas and substantially similar flaws.

this isn't surprising considering that one end (the teabaggers) are largely made up of the same baby boomer generation that has become overly reliant on government handouts such as medicare and medicaid that were first put into play by their own parents' generation. (the FDR disaster that we're still paying for and that lead to the recession of 1937).

the new occupy idiots are those raised by this same baby boomer generation who have grown up with artificial assurances that "everyone wins" and "everyone is equal" and therefore desire a society of equitable distribution.

long gone is the American society that desires to pay a person for his achievements, his ingenuity and his hard work and it is replaced by the touchy feely bullshit that we're all of equal importance to society and of equal financial worth.

guess what? we're not.





[Edited on November 4, 2011 at 3:45 AM. Reason : .]

11/4/2011 3:35:11 AM

Quote :

"the new occupy idiots are those raised by this same baby boomer generation who have grown up with artificial assurances that "everyone wins" and "everyone is equal" and therefore desire a society of equitable distribution. long gone is the American society that desires to pay a person for his achievements, his ingenuity and his hard work and it is replaced by the touchy feely bullshit that we're all of equal importance to society and of equal financial worth. guess what? we're not. "

Occupy isn't a movement to install socialism. Some of the reasons that the protests occur are socialistic in nature, since the majority of the protesters are from the proletariat, but we already have different forms of socialism in American government today.

Society needs some people to be at the bottom. We can't pay the girl working the drive-thru at McDonald's the same wage as we pay the heart surgeon. The guy delivering the mail shouldn't make as much as the store manager at Wal-Mart. This isn't the objective of Occupy, and while everyone wants 1) Better wages and 2) Representation of public interests instead of corporate interests, Occupy isn't promoting a traditional political agenda. Maybe it's a new political party forming? That's up for discussion, but it will be awhile before anything solid is formed from these protests.

The Occupy movement could bring about a number of positive social changes that could greatly improve everyone's lives. Why is gas at $3.50/gallon? Would the oil companies still make billions if there was a government-imposed price cap at $1.25/gallon? Of course they would. The government already imposes ridiculous policies on things that only negatively impact citizens, so why not create new policies that will make the things that we want more accessible? Gas is sold by the same oil companies at much lower prices in other areas of the world. Stop letting corporations gouge you! Stand up for yourself! (even if this means sitting on the sidewalk outside of the capitol building, regardless of disability status)

The banks should have failed. The bailout was ridiculous and morally wrong. Maybe you didn't lose your house to foreclosure, but how many Americans paid taxes so that the bank bailouts could occur, and then watched as those same banks came and foreclosed on their houses? Where was their bailout?

The Robin Hood tax is wrong, but vice taxes on tobacco are right? Look at the Master Settlement Agreement is funding and you'll see that it was just another way for the government to extract money from not only the tobacco companies, but tax-paying citizens as well. When the MSA ends, cigarettes will still be $4.50/pack, and the cigarette companies will cite state and other taxes as the reason. They'll still make billions.

We could cite thousands of examples, but the underlying theme for why we can't afford the things that we want is corporate and government greed. If things were reasonably priced then $12.00/hour isn't a bad wage. Just doing the simple math on $480.00 per week X 50 weeks shows how it's impossible to live a quality life with that income.

$2000 per month
$750 rent
$150 utilities
$125 health insurance
$45 Internet
$150 gas
$300 food
$60 car insurance 1680
$100 basic necessities (toilet paper, laundry detergent, tampons, condoms, etc.)

That's $1680. How much of the $2000/month do you bring home before taxes? I haven't included doctor co-pays, medicine, cable tv, car maintenance, bank loans, children, etc. I just made general estimates on most things, but anything on that list could be substantially higher. So let's raise taxes to save banks that made bad business decisions. Let the banks (like Wachovia) sell themselves to other banks so their upper management can abandon ship (known formally as "retire") with millions in severance packages, and then pass those costs off their customers in the form of higher fees on checking accounts and debit cards.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a job that lets you pay your bills. Wanting a job that pays enough to be able to drive your car to work and other local places, keeping your apartment at a comfortable temperature, having health and auto insurance, watching cable tv and surfing broadband internet, and eating enough food so that you aren't hungry doesn't mean that you are lazy and feel entitled to a handout. It wouldn't take much common sense to make all of those things accessible to the average American.

Raising the minimum wage is fine, but all costs will eventually rise to keep the rate of profit at the same level. This is one of the contradictions of capitalism. Getting paid $15.00/hour won't make a damn bit of difference if value meals at McDonald's are $10.00 and the rent is $1500. Instead of regulating everything that makes people feel good or allows most of what we buy to produced in a third world country, it's time for the government to develop, enact, and enforce policies that benefit Americans. I'm all for supporting foreign nations and economies, but not at the expense of Americans.

Everyone doesn't need to drive a Ferrari, have Wideband internet, eat sushi for every meal, and live in a 5000 sq. ft. home. Everyone should have a vehicle, some form of home entertainment, food, and adequate living space per person. This isn't unreasonable or unable of being accomplished if the social and economic forces aren't set up to work against the working American.

I don't believe in free rides, but I can understand how, after spending months acquiring government assistance, someone would be reluctant to sacrifice that assistance to work at a job that wouldn't allow them to enjoy the same quality of life that the benefits provided. The benefits aren't the problem. The inability to acquire a decent wage, plus the ridiculous costs of certain commodities, is what keeps the large majority of assistance-receivers stuck in the system.

Socialism may not be the answer, but Marx's explanations for how society operates economically are relevant, and in most instances, correct.

11/4/2011 4:54:00 AM

Quote :

"long gone is the American society that desires to pay a person for his achievements, his ingenuity and his hard work and it is replaced by the touchy feely bullshit that we're all of equal importance to society and of equal financial worth. guess what? we're not. "

Lulz

Looks like you drank the corporatist koolaid.

No one is saying we are all equal and deserve the same pay. But it's obvious that executives at the top don't deserve 500x or more the pay of their employees, ESP when their employees are suffering through a recession.

You have companies firing thousands of people and shipping jobs overseas, amidst making profits, you have GE and Exxon mobile paying a negative tax rate while their lobbyists fool the conservative half of the country they are paying too much in taxes.

OWS is not against the free market, they want a free market that works.

11/4/2011 8:13:59 AM

That is messed up how 18 members of the Federal Reserve have financial interests that conflict. Kind of like how the original founding members had financial motivations for setting it up.

11/4/2011 8:43:11 AM

A $12/hour living wage is debatable seeing as how you can get a roommate and easily cut down on some of those costs mentioned above. Regardless, who says you're only allowed to work 40 hours a week? If you need more money, work more hours, get a second job, or get education/training so you can earn more than $12/hour.

11/4/2011 10:32:43 AM

Quote :

"Lulz Looks like you drank the corporatist koolaid. "

lol you are denying survival of the fittest and basic fundamental principles that govern the universe lol

Quote :

"long gone is the American society that desires to pay a person for his achievements, his ingenuity and his hard work and it is replaced by the touchy feely bullshit that we're all of equal importance to society and of equal financial worth. guess what? we're not. "

this. win. /thread.

any lifeforms not following this pattern are simply living on borrowed time waiting for their genes to be eradicated from the genepool when times get rough (like now)

[Edited on November 4, 2011 at 5:51 PM. Reason : ,]

11/4/2011 5:43:58 PM

pack_bryan is on disability.

11/4/2011 5:48:54 PM

Quote :

"No one is saying we are all equal and deserve the same pay. But it's obvious that executives at the top don't deserve 500x or more the pay of their employees, ESP when their employees are suffering through a recession. "

There does become a point when the amount a CEO gets paid just comes down to greed. And this is coming from someone whose grandfather was CEO of Sara Lee for a couple of years. Even he thought it was bullshit how inflated the salaries of CEOs had become over the years.

11/4/2011 5:50:11 PM

pryderi is the guy who raped the 14 year old in broad daylight in the OWS protest


[Edited on November 4, 2011 at 5:54 PM. Reason : ,]

11/4/2011 5:52:14 PM

Quote :

"There does become a point when the amount a CEO gets paid just comes down to greed."

why are you talking about greed? you are greedy. feeding yourself 20x a day while 60% of the human population can barely get a glass of water a day.

11/4/2011 5:55:01 PM

dont know if its posted..

these dudes show up with ar-15s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1Z0jE88_x0

11/4/2011 5:58:40 PM

Quote :

"There does become a point when the amount a CEO gets paid just comes down to greed. And this is coming from someone whose grandfather was CEO of Sara Lee for a couple of years. Even he thought it was bullshit how inflated the salaries of CEOs had become over the years. "

i don't think anyone will argue against that, nor against their level of influence in modern politics.

i also think it's apparent to all that while the costs of education have gone up exponentially, the rise of salaries has not been commensurate making a generation of people who have been told they must go to college become disillusioned whenever they leave with their bachelors in basket weaving and can't find a job. people make that choice themselves, but the government lending policies have fostered this explosion in cost in several ways.

these are the things OWS should be most vocal about... unfortunately, their level of disorganization is resulting in a bunch of random bullshit being spewed by the "leaders" in city to city.

the idiot who was leading the Raleigh protests was on the radio the other day and actually said, "we're seeking wealth redistribution". that would go over with the general public like a lead balloon.



[Edited on November 4, 2011 at 6:23 PM. Reason : .]

11/4/2011 6:04:53 PM

Quote :

"i don't think anyone will argue against that, nor against their level of influence in modern politics. "

Have you listened to Glenn Beck at all

11/4/2011 6:07:39 PM

LOL -- only when i need a good laugh or to check in on what the latest right wing conspiracy bullshit is.

and, of course, whenever i want an update on how much hand wringing the birthers are doing.

11/4/2011 6:25:42 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14678859

11/4/2011 6:37:13 PM

I am the 0.00238% I am OWS. I want handouts from governments and corporations. I protest the single greatest system to ever exist in humanity. I have no idea what I want to do with my liberal arts major. I cast off any opinions and views other than extreme far left 'hip' thinkers. I consider myself to be superior to any other group and entitled to free healthcare, free money and wages, guaranteed employment and possessions and programs that have never existed in the history of any species or civilizations and will march in the streets of the civilized until I get them!

WE ARE OWS! YAY!

11/4/2011 6:46:03 PM

Who put that creepy picture up there near "school tool"

11/4/2011 7:02:13 PM

pack_bryan bot is malfunctioning

11/5/2011 1:02:15 AM

11/5/2011 1:50:40 AM