I don't think even 5 years will be long enough for Doeren 99.999% of good coaches.

12/1/2013 3:21:40 PM

Considering that our last coach only got 6 years, and the previous 3 coaches before that only got 7, Doeren had better hope to see some significant improvement within the next few years if he plans on sticking around for a while.

12/1/2013 3:31:08 PM

Quote :

"I don't think even 5 years will be long enough for Doeren 99.999% of good coaches."

what's the goalpost? if you're talking BCS bowls and national championships.... sure... but if you're talking about just competing in a relatively weak conference (at a school with quite frankly too much money and fans willing to show up in proportion to historical success)... 5 years is more than generous.

12/1/2013 3:34:02 PM

I'm all for giving coaches at least a few years, and I'm as optimistic a State fan as there is on this website

But the motherfucker just went 0-8 in the ACC. This year sucked dick. He's trying too much of that cutesie shit that worked in the MAC and doesn't work in a big boy league. Yeah it's just the ACC, but it's not the MAC either.

12/1/2013 3:39:58 PM

0-8 with the easiest schedule in recent memories with 8 fucking home games and only 2 trips out of the state. dude should be on a short leash

12/1/2013 3:43:18 PM

We wouldn't have done much better in the MAC this year. Probably would have gotten stomped out by Western Michigan and Akron.

12/1/2013 3:43:26 PM

I'm personally wondering how the hell TOB managed to fail so hard at recruiting for this year--the drop-off in talent from previous seasons is immense. Unless all the decent ones de-committed once he was let go.

Regardless, Doeren's poor performance is more about bad decisions and questionable play-calling than it is about the quality, or lack, of these players. If we had won 4 games and been competetive in several more, for example, then yes. You could put some of that on the quality of players. To have won only 3 games, and those against a bad C-USA team, a mediocre MAC team, and (barely a win) a mediocre I-AA team? That takes coaching (or lack thereof).

[Edited on December 1, 2013 at 3:56 PM. Reason : q]

12/1/2013 3:55:51 PM

Quote :

"NC State fans, is this the right time to bring up the fact that Auburn went 3-9 and 0-8 in the SEC last year?"

12/1/2013 3:56:57 PM

^^^imagine how good we'd be with partial qualifiers

12/1/2013 4:37:54 PM

Quote :

"what's the goalpost? if you're talking BCS bowls and national championships.... sure... but if you're talking about just competing in a relatively weak conference (at a school with quite frankly too much money and fans willing to show up in proportion to historical success)... 5 years is more than generous."

I'm talking about getting to a team that is winning 7+ games constantly. He's got nothing to work with. 5 years is the right amount of time.

12/1/2013 4:42:27 PM

If only we had a coach who could win 7+ games consistently....

12/1/2013 4:49:07 PM

I want to him improve from there. But to get there is going to take 5 years. TOB reached his peak at 7+ win seasons. DD can improve from there.

[Edited on December 1, 2013 at 4:50 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2013 4:50:01 PM

Of course you should want him to improve from there.

We should all want that.


That's ostensibly why we fired the guy who gave us that. Because we determined that that was not good enough.


So Doeren really shouldn't be given that much slack, considering his predecessor took a 3 win team and took them to 3 straight bowl games (4 bowls out of 5 years) and consistently beat our main rival and still got fired after only 6 seasons.


[Edited on December 1, 2013 at 5:13 PM. Reason : grammar boner]

12/1/2013 4:54:42 PM

He also inherited Russell Wilson not Pete Thomas.

[Edited on December 1, 2013 at 4:56 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2013 4:55:56 PM

so are we all just going to assume that Tom O'Brien had no hand in sending two NC State Quarterbacks to the NFL?




[Edited on December 1, 2013 at 5:09 PM. Reason : ]

12/1/2013 4:58:40 PM

Quote :

"ARE MAIN RIVAL"

12/1/2013 4:59:04 PM

^^No one is assuming that. However, when you're trying to turn a team from 3 wins to 9 wins having a QB who is capable of playing excellent is huge.

The most important position is QB. TOB inherited a good QB - DD didn't

12/1/2013 5:00:20 PM

Tom O'Brien inherited Harrison Beck and Daniel Evans....are we just forgetting all about the 2007 season? Even that team managed a conference win.

12/1/2013 5:10:16 PM

Would you guys take Mac Brown? srsly? Mac brown?

12/1/2013 5:14:44 PM

Quote :

"So Doeren really shouldn't be given that much slack, considering his predecessor took a 3 win team and took them to 3 straight bowl games (4 bowls out of 5 years) and consistently beat are main rival and still got fired after only 6 seasons."

Pretty much. I think one of the main reasons we sent TOB packing was the abysmal division road game record. NCSU wasn't going to go anywhere by not being able to win an occasional division road game.

We went from losing almost 100% of our division road games to losing 100% of all our conference games. Of course he's in the hot seat.

Inherited players that just aren't good at football... at all? Sure. Injuries, injuries, injuries... apparently the one consistent thing about NC State football? Sure. Can he coach up a kid to improve in some small way? In his losses can he at least prevent us from being humiliated in the process?

I guess this situation is unique. Every facet of our football program except perhaps the kicking game is terrible. How much is on the coach, how much on "the arrows in his quiver" as TOB would say? Hard to tell. Either way DD was at the helm of this turd and he's the one that's got to prove himself... sooner rather than later.

I don't care if he stays around to show what he can do with a few years, I don't care if he gets fired tomorrow. That's essentially what DD has done with the program thus far... make me not care.



[Edited on December 1, 2013 at 5:19 PM. Reason : -]

12/1/2013 5:17:43 PM

Of course we can't turn around and fire him after a single season though--one must consider the perception of the job. This is already not a "plum" position--we have an AD who has something of a reputation (despite how much of that may be fabrications by Gary Williams, the perception remains), an impatient fan base with high reasonable expectations, don't have much in the way of national name recognition, and have to duke it out with heavyweights FSU and Clemson just to snare a division title, let alone conference championship. Getting trigger-happy with a new coach in an obvious rebuilding phase is going to make it that much worse--we don't want this to become like the basketball position where everyone and their brother turns us down when we go hunting.

12/1/2013 5:31:33 PM

which is what makes the firing of O'Brien all the more of a gamble.

This Doeren experiment falls on Yow. This is HER guy. She wanted to make a mark on the football program, and may have burned a ton of money in the process. Obviously, you gotta give the guy some time, but if this program sputters for a few more seasons and we are trying to climb back up to the consistent 7+ wins that we just experienced with the guy that we fired...well, that won't make her look very good.

12/1/2013 5:35:47 PM

RIVERBOAT DAVE

12/1/2013 5:53:11 PM

more credible than sonny dykes and darrell hazell

12/1/2013 6:32:08 PM

Quote :

"Doeren had better hope to see some significant improvement within the next few years if he plans on sticking around for a while."

No shit Nostradamus.

Quote :

"Tom O'Brien inherited Harrison Beck and Daniel Evans....are we just forgetting all about the 2007 season?"

DERP DERP DERP I think you're forgetting one there. Who could it be????

Quote :

"We went from losing almost 100% of our division road games to losing 100% of all our conference games. Of course he's in the hot seat."

He's not in the hot seat after one fucking season idiot.

Quote :

"Of course we can't turn around and fire him after a single season though"

Of course not. We probably can't even fire him after two. Who the hell would want to coach for us after we do that?

12/1/2013 7:03:12 PM

Huxtable and Canada are good coordinators with significant track records. If we can get talented players in place we'll see some pretty notable improvements.

12/1/2013 7:24:45 PM

^^Was there any substantive point you were trying to make there, sweetheart? Or are you just taking your frustrations out on the internet?

Usually when you try and deconstruct someone's post point for point, you are attempting to counter someone's argument, not just angrily agree with their overall position.

You're entire reason for that post was to somehow declare that we can't fire Doeren after only one or two seasons, which is a position that nobody is arguing.

12/1/2013 8:32:38 PM

Quote :

"You're entire reason"

Quote :

"You're entire reason for that post was to somehow declare that we can't fire Doeren after only one or two seasons, which is a position that nobody is arguing."

That was exactly 50% of my post. Math is hard. Also there are people arguing for him being gone ITT. Reading is hard.

Quote :

"Or are you just taking your frustrations out on the internet?"

I don't have any frustrations brah. It's you people who are frustrated ITT.

12/1/2013 8:37:13 PM

Huxtable is a journeyman

Canada is a slightly better than average OC who failed at his only major stop. He's no better than Bible who at least did a great job with QBs

12/1/2013 9:14:41 PM

I noticed that the attendance for the Maryland game was about 43,000. It is usually lower for the weekend after Thanksgiving but don't know that it drops that low. More attendance like that next year will get him on the hot seat fast.

12/1/2013 9:31:50 PM

So wait, you're telling me that attendance was abnormally low after a 7 game ACC losing streak on Thanksgiving weekend?

12/1/2013 9:40:51 PM

Joke all you want a lot of LTR and season ticket holders are not renewing next year, some even thinking of dropping WPC donations.

[Edited on December 1, 2013 at 10:02 PM. Reason : LTR holders can "opt out" for one year and not buy tickets FYI]

12/1/2013 9:53:57 PM

we had our last win in September, but don't worry guys, everything is fine

12/1/2013 9:59:52 PM

^^I look forward to LTR holders giving up their seats.

12/1/2013 10:01:09 PM

This season was a result of one thing only; our complete lack of fieldable talent. That's not Doeren's fault, he didn't recruit these guys. He walked into the shittiest of situations and had to make do with what he had. Which was basically nothing. This is what TOB left us, this is why he's not here anymore. This season serves as a glaring exclamation point to the importance of recruiting, and what happens when your coaching staff drops the recruiting ball.

Questionable playcalls and decisions are a moot point if you don't even have the talent on the field to execute basic football. Every coach makes mistakes from the sideline, every single season.

But 0-8? That shit is on TOB. He left us a turd. You can't polish a turd. It is what it is.

12/1/2013 10:58:02 PM

I don't buy the "TOB left the cupboard bare" excuse at all...Doeren did a shitty job of adapting his system to the talent he inherited.

12/1/2013 11:03:18 PM

I'm a Doeren apologist, mainly because of what he was able to do at NIU and because I have a mancrush on Jordan Lynch

as soon as DD finds a Lynchlike qb, we'll be a 10 win team

12/1/2013 11:05:38 PM

I think you just like all things that are from or around the Illinois area, and that's why I like you.

12/1/2013 11:11:27 PM

Quote :

" I'm a Doeren apologist, mainly because of what he was able to do at NIU "

his successor didn't exactly struggle in his absence

12/1/2013 11:22:32 PM

Quote :

"0-8? That shit is on TOB"

12/1/2013 11:22:47 PM

^^ no doubt. now we'll see what his successor is able to do next year with a bare cupboard

12/1/2013 11:31:06 PM

Quote :

"his successor didn't exactly struggle in his absence "

that's pretty much exactly his point...

12/1/2013 11:41:57 PM

Our recent recruiting classes have been ranked higher than Cuse, BC, Maryland, Wake, and Duke and yet all of those teams beat us this year. Hell our last two classes have been better than Georgia Tech's. But please continue the woe is us and blame it all on Tom.

12/2/2013 12:00:11 AM

Quote :

"Our recent recruiting classes have been ranked higher [according to packboozie's asshole's recruiting service] than Cuse, BC, Maryland, Wake, and Duke and yet all of those teams beat us this year. "

12/2/2013 12:06:58 AM

Quote :

"Our recent recruiting classes have been ranked higher than Cuse, BC, Maryland, Wake, and Duke and yet all of those teams beat us this year"

While our talent may not be completely bare, it is not high level. And when you combine that with having to install a new system they were not recruited for, you get this season. I still think with decent QB play (at least a 1-1 TD to int ratio) we could have won 2 or 3 more games so it's not time to abandon Doeren.

12/2/2013 12:07:58 AM

Quote :

"that's pretty much exactly his point..."

NIU was good before Doeren and after Doeren....what exactly is your point?

12/2/2013 12:20:03 AM

Quote :

"[according to packboozie's asshole's recruiting service]"

I think Scout and Rivals follow recruiting more than any of us

Not that they don't fuck up, ie Russell Wilson being a 2*...and I think people who worship high school kids star ratings have problems

but over an entire class, they're usually fairly accurate

[Edited on December 2, 2013 at 12:23 AM. Reason : .]

12/2/2013 12:22:35 AM

Quote :

"Questionable playcalls and decisions are a moot point if you don't even have the talent on the field to execute basic football."

except not at all, seeing how those decisions weren't made in a vacuum

those calls are always situational, and were routinely made in awful spots

I'm not for letting him go just yet, but there is almost nothing that happened during the season to give you confidence in the future, and that's on him, not who he replaced

12/2/2013 12:29:43 AM

maybe he is like les miles. bad calls can sometimes be great callls if you have players that can actually pull it off.

12/2/2013 3:33:36 AM

Quote :

"Not that they don't fuck up, ie Russell Wilson being a 2*"

Yeah, sorry, I don't put a lot of stock into recruiting websites for exactly that reason. More often than not they're wrong, and a billion things can happen to a recruit once they leave HS.

Quote :

"except not at all, seeing how those decisions weren't made in a vacuum those calls are always situational, and were routinely made in awful spots"

None of those calls were game losers. None. You can think he's crazy for making them, but the dude was tasked with creating offense from a team incapable of creating offense. When you're desperate, you've gotta do crazy shit sometimes. When you're playing a shit ton of freshmen, they're going to be dumbasses and fuck something up. The fact you all want to ride this guy's ass for a few weird calls just shows how football stupid you are. Questionable playcalls didn't get us to 0-8 in the ACC, and didn't even account for one of those loses.

Nick Saban literally just made a playcall that lost Alabama another National Title attempt; no one is chasing him out of town. Every coach makes some weird decisions from time to time.

If you want to be concerned about something, be concerned about the Doeren's ability to recruit and grow talent. That will be the only thing that saves this ship.

12/2/2013 7:16:23 AM