Quote :

"nikedunklowpro raises to 250"

Looks like you need to work on your preflop play here too.

11/18/2010 9:16:13 AM

Orly how so? 3.5x or higher he prob folds, 2.5x or 3x pretty much guarantees a call when I'm more than likely ahead and gives me position and a comfortable size pot to outplay him or get off my hand with minimal loss

11/18/2010 10:36:33 AM

That's fine when you don't have a limper in front but with one guy already calling I'd def pop it to 3.5x. Why would you think he'd fold to 3.5x? He'd be calling 250 to win 600.

11/18/2010 12:57:32 PM

Going to get in some Poker tournaments next month in Vegas. Anyone have any recommendations? Caesars' 85 dollar buyin looks like a good game.

Whats the action like in mid December?

11/18/2010 1:50:53 PM

^^ maybe he would've called if I 3.5xd it, I don't know, they seem to fold a lot when I do that. I normally would 3x there with a limper in front, 4x if there are 2 limpers. It all depends on what I'm trying to do at the moment, I usually gauge my raises according to how many people I'm hoping to narrow it down to with my hand and position

11/18/2010 3:13:13 PM

dude if i were you id stop fighting it and listen to us...between me david and moe we have at least 25 years of experience playing games larger than your $8 buy in

11/18/2010 6:40:18 PM

^I'm not fighting, chill out

I'm definitely willing to listen to people's opinions, that is the whole reason I'm on here. The only thing you, david, and moe have said are vague comments like "that was bad" or "you need to work on your play here" or "post it on 2+2 and they will tear you up" etc. Not one of you has offered any real explanation. You may be a solid player and I'm sure you are, but that type of commentary just comes across really arrogant to me. And the fact that you guys play bigger games doesn't necessarily make you better players. David is a prime example of that.

11/18/2010 10:15:26 PM

i guess it seemes like you are incorrectly rationalizing your play in your head....maybe my $8 comment was a bit off color

11/18/2010 11:16:03 PM

All good

11/19/2010 12:57:57 AM

Quote :

"The only thing you, david, and moe have said are vague comments"

WTF is vague about me telling you to raise "3.5x" or calling "250 to win 600"

Quote :

"And the fact that you guys play bigger games doesn't necessarily make you better players. David is a prime example of that."

Kid, I've been playing poker for close to a decade. It paid rent in college and financed a down payment on my house, but by all means, go on and keep playing your $8 tourneys trying to justify your bad play.

11/19/2010 2:54:59 AM

David,

You may have been a profitable player at one time, but I've sweated you several times in the FT Sunday majors a while back and you made some horrendous plays. I watched you donk out one time when you raised with 79s pre and got reraised all in and you called off your remaining 3/4-4/5 of your stack. That was the last time I watched you cause I thought you were garbage after that. You may have a lot more knowledge of the game, but from what I can tell you don't use it to your advantage. I play lower stakes but at least I crush where I'm at, and I guarantee you I would own the shit out of you all day if we played the same tourneys. I pulled up your graph on sharkscope, its in my gallery in case you need a reality check.

[Edited on November 19, 2010 at 2:25 PM. Reason : /]

11/19/2010 2:24:18 PM

If you raise with 79 suited and some short stack pushes all in then that's an instacall in my book. Many others would agree. I feel sure I had pot odds there, but I'm not going to sit here and try to explain such trivial concepts to you. As far as your graph, yeah I got staked to play high $ tournaments and it didn't turn out so great. Obv if I thought I could sustain at that level I'd just back myself. Where are the graphs from all the rings games I used to play for years? Where are the stats for the dozen different poker sites I've played on? Don't post some crappy graph with a measly 150 tournaments and try to convince yourself you'd "own" me. Look around, kid. Everyone thinks your play sucked, but by all means, keep donking money off at the tables. No skin off my back.

11/19/2010 2:44:38 PM

Except it wasn't a short stack that shoved, the guy had you covered and I believe he had QQ or KK as I suspected, doesn't really matter though cause there is no way you should've called, and I knew that back then even as a break even player at the time. And if making over $5k in profit off $5-$10 tourneys is your definition of donking off, then yes I will be glad to keep it up.

11/19/2010 3:12:20 PM

Well if he had me covered then perhaps I was the short stack. I'm not going to commit 25% of my stack to a pot and then fold to a reraise.

WOAH!!! $5000?!?!? I'm impressed

11/19/2010 3:46:32 PM

Umm...is it not possible for both of you to enter some of the same tourneys or sit down heads up and settle this shit the proper way instead of e-dicking?

11/19/2010 4:58:03 PM

I beat David at poker all day long every day. Go team Brandi. Love you Dave!

11/19/2010 5:07:46 PM

Yeah David, $5000 is a lot of money. Especially compared to -$16,800. Pick a tournament that you want to play 50-100 of on Full Tilt over the next few wks/months , any size tourney between $5-$10 buy in, and I will side bet you $500 that I will have more profit than you after playing the given amount of tourneys

11/19/2010 11:32:46 PM

Dude, 1 tournament isn't going to prove anything...

I think we are all just trying to show you the most profitable play. Over the grind of millions of hands, you will see better results if you listen the advise. Some of us have played (or should I say grind) 500k to 1 mil hands per year and have done so for the past 5+ years. With that grind, we've seen it all and can roll our eyes at a lot of plays. I'm sure we've all raised too small or opened limped at some point, but have come to learn through experience the proper bet sizing to be the most profitable. Also, if you've not done so already, join CardRunners. I joined when they were in their infancy and it has been the best thing I could have done for my game (although, I've not spent time on there in a while). Those guys get paid to teach the proper play and thus, can explain the reasoning better than we could.

11/20/2010 8:01:09 AM

Fair enough, I appreciate it

11/20/2010 9:27:17 AM

O.M.F.G

Full Tilt Poker Game #25714071192: $16,500 Guarantee (199255044), Table 1 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:18:40 ET - 2010/11/20
Seat 1: Nick1108 (2,617)
Seat 2: CLAUDIONEY AAAA (2,451)
Seat 3: doomed4life (6,155)
Seat 4: nikedunklowpro (5,329)
Seat 5: hosein3 (11,408)
Seat 6: MultiDog9 (3,755)
Seat 7: momuny4me (11,036)
Seat 8: tof37 (2,870)
Seat 9: ChristNotAgain (3,070)
MultiDog9 posts the small blind of 60
momuny4me posts the big blind of 120
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to nikedunklowpro [8c 8s]
tof37 calls 120
ChristNotAgain folds
Nick1108 folds
CLAUDIONEY AAAA has 15 seconds left to act
CLAUDIONEY AAAA folds
doomed4life folds
nikedunklowpro raises to 399
hosein3 folds
MultiDog9 folds
momuny4me calls 279
tof37 calls 279
*** FLOP *** [9d 4d 8d]
momuny4me checks
tof37 checks
momuny4me has been disconnected
nikedunklowpro bets 749
momuny4me calls 749
momuny4me has reconnected
tof37 calls 749
*** TURN *** [9d 4d 8d] [2h]
momuny4me has 15 seconds left to act
momuny4me bets 9,888, and is all in
tof37 calls 1,722, and is all in
nikedunklowpro calls 4,181, and is all in
momuny4me shows [4s 2d]
tof37 shows [Jh Ad]
nikedunklowpro shows [8c 8s]
Uncalled bet of 5,707 returned to momuny4me
momuny4me has been disconnected
*** RIVER *** [9d 4d 8d 2h] [Jd]
momuny4me has reconnected
momuny4me shows a flush, Jack high
nikedunklowpro shows three of a kind, Eights
momuny4me wins the side pot (4,918) with a flush, Jack high
tof37 shows a flush, Ace high
tof37 wins the main pot (8,670) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 13,588 Main pot 8,670. Side pot 4,918. | Rake 0

11/20/2010 11:24:22 AM

for the chip lead...

Full Tilt Poker Game #25716046657: Super Stack $10K Guarantee (199250440), Table 70 - 250/500 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:51:10 ET - 2010/11/20
Seat 1: nikedunklowpro (62,499)
Seat 2: EMSBas (47,071)
Seat 4: Kiev3699 (49,026)
Seat 5: 1tsTheJo1nt (42,491)
Seat 6: Huzzle (33,918)
Seat 7: JPR55RUS (24,266)
Seat 8: trojan1978 (42,506)
Seat 9: riverproof (25,872)
nikedunklowpro antes 50
EMSBas antes 50
Kiev3699 antes 50
1tsTheJo1nt antes 50
Huzzle antes 50
JPR55RUS antes 50
trojan1978 antes 50
riverproof antes 50
1tsTheJo1nt posts the small blind of 250
Huzzle posts the big blind of 500
Shandie888 sits down
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to nikedunklowpro [Jc Jd]
JPR55RUS calls 500
trojan1978 folds
riverproof folds
nikedunklowpro has 15 seconds left to act
nikedunklowpro raises to 1,899
EMSBas folds
Kiev3699 folds
1tsTheJo1nt folds
Huzzle folds
JPR55RUS calls 1,399
*** FLOP *** [5h 5c 9c]
JPR55RUS checks
nikedunklowpro has 15 seconds left to act
nikedunklowpro bets 3,799
JPR55RUS raises to 22,317, and is all in
nikedunklowpro calls 18,518
JPR55RUS shows [Ad 9d]
nikedunklowpro shows [Jc Jd]
*** TURN *** [5h 5c 9c] [As]
*** RIVER *** [5h 5c 9c As] [2c]
JPR55RUS shows two pair, Aces and Nines
nikedunklowpro shows two pair, Jacks and Fives
JPR55RUS wins the pot (49,582) with two pair, Aces and Nines

[Edited on November 20, 2010 at 12:56 PM. Reason : /]

11/20/2010 12:56:17 PM

Quote :

"O.M.F.G"

Isn't that almost the exact type of play you were trying to rationalize with 79 suited?

11/20/2010 1:04:13 PM

I have learned one undeniable fact since I have started playing poker, and it is this. While it may come off as arrogant, I know for a fact that I am better and smarter than most of the people I play with, especially at the limits that I enjoy. Sure, there are some people "like" me that play well and just like to beat up on lower limit games, but the vast majority of the players are beginners, idiots, or more than likely both.

So thus, I have found that most of the hands I lose are from "bad beats" because, more often than not, I make the right play, bet the right amount, etc but I still lose. I don't think anyone is doubting that the dudes in your hands got really lucky in hands that they probably shouldn't have been in. I have just personally come to realize that most of my beats will be in hands that I was ahead in and the guy just outdrew me.

Let's look at the 88 hand.

Preflop: You raise to 399 (why you chose 399.... I always find that annoying but whatever) which is a pretty solid amount, and get 2 calls. One guy is a relatively short stack, the other is sitting with a lot of chips (for this stage in the tournament). Did you have a good read on these two guys? If I get calls, I am usually thinking over cards.... but with big stacks.... they could be solid players, or just idiots who have gotten lucky by calling everything, so who knows.

The Flop: You flop 3 diamonds but also hit your set. You bet about 2/3 of the pot. Personally, I am not a big fan of this bet. If this were me, I would be trying to protect my hand, but you definitely aren't going to scare away the nut flush draw with a bet like that (he may even be thinking AJ is good at this point and that you are just stabbing at the pot), and it is not unreasonable to think that bottom pair is good on a board of 984. So if your goal is to get money in the pot, you have succeeded, but IMO you are also giving two players a cheap card (one who almost certainly has a diamond.)

The Turn: A 2 rolls off, and if I were sitting with 24, I definitely think my hand is good with 2 pair on a board like that. The guy with AJ with the ace of diamonds has to call 1,700 chips to win a pot of about 7,000. There is no way either one of these dudes is folding.

So yeah, it sucks that you lost this hand. IMO the worst play was the preflop call with 24 offsuit, but your bet on the flop was also pretty poor. Big picture though, those plays are pretty standard. There are a lot of dumb people out there, and you can't get upset when they get lucky like that.

11/20/2010 3:22:22 PM

^how much should I have bet out on the flop in relation to the pot?

11/20/2010 5:42:51 PM

Ok, what would you do in this spot?

(final table)

Full Tilt Poker Game #25723314909: Super Stack $10K Guarantee (199250440), Table 114 - 10000/20000 Ante 2500 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:35:34 ET - 2010/11/20
Seat 1: Oda22 (1,486,170)
Seat 2: Snowypuck (624,922)
Seat 4: woofmybluff (234,932)
Seat 5: annvn (1,500,739)
Seat 6: piponN (1,519,324)
Seat 7: HungryBruce (682,469)
Seat 8: nikedunklowpro (516,475)
Seat 9: SaBak72 (1,249,969)
Oda22 antes 2,500
Snowypuck antes 2,500
woofmybluff antes 2,500
annvn antes 2,500
piponN antes 2,500
HungryBruce antes 2,500
nikedunklowpro antes 2,500
SaBak72 antes 2,500
woofmybluff posts the small blind of 10,000
annvn posts the big blind of 20,000
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to nikedunklowpro [Js Jc]
piponN folds
HungryBruce has 15 seconds left to act
woofmybluff: not for a while..
HungryBruce raises to 60,000
nikedunklowpro has 15 seconds left to act
nikedunklowpro has requested TIME

11/20/2010 5:58:27 PM

Quote :

"^how much should I have bet out on the flop in relation to the pot?"

This is just me, but personally I would have bet around 1,800, maybe even more. I am going under the (good) assumption that I am ahead, as well as the (very safe) assumption that I can get beat by one card. With the cards that eventually fell, there is NO way you are going to win this hand, but you probably could have cut your losses with a bigger turn bet. It is much more likely that the big stack folds his bottom pair. I highly doubt that AJ is going to fold (but he might, in which case you win). I feel like 750 is a solid bet IF (and only if) you feel that it is highly unlikely that a single card can beat you. To me, 750 begs for a call... so a 974 rainbow flop, perhaps 750 is a good bet (yes, I realize J10 or something like that could hit). But with a really dangerous flop like 9D8D4D, there are a LOT of single cards that could either beat you, or make you think you're beat, so I overbet the pot big time.

************************************************************************
As for the hand that you just posted with JJ. It depends. What is the table dynamic? Are there a lot of preflop raises? Has this guy, in particular, been raising a lot preflop? Do you have any notes or other info about him?

You obviously have 3 options here. Given that you have NO other info on this dude, here they are. Keep in mind, you make plays in poker to gain information.

Option 1: FOLD This actually isn't a horrible play (IMO). A raise in early position often means a monster. it could just be a steal. Who knows, but (once again, IMO) JJ might as well be 77.

Option 2: CALL This is probably the worst play, because it gives you no information, and gives other hands pretty decent odds to also call. Then when an over card hits and people start betting, it's autofold.

Option 3: RAISE This is what I would do. I pop it up to 180,000. He may fold. If he just calls, I assume he is holding either a small pair or AX. If he reraises you, it probably means you are either behind or in a coinflip, in which case I probably let it go and cut my losses.

11/20/2010 8:13:26 PM

^yeah the guy had been raising quite a bit preflop before we got to the final table, he was very aggro. I felt like it was a pretty good chance he didn't have an overpair so I just shoved. He had AA. gg me. Really disappointing considering how well I played. I was the shortest stack at one point with 94 players left, had less than 3 bbs.

11/20/2010 10:40:41 PM

Stopped playing for like 5 or 6 months and used some FPP to buy into a Sat SitNGo on PS. Managed to turn that $11 token into over $150 in less than a week. Now I've got the fucking itch again. Gonna see how high I can get this bankroll.

11/25/2010 11:37:58 PM

during hand for hand play on the money bubble...

Full Tilt Poker Game #25909852764: $16,500 Guarantee (200813333), Table 11 - 600/1200 Ante 150 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:25:57 ET - 2010/11/27
Seat 1: sue_bencao (52,284)
Seat 2: Link-nik1 (31,741)
Seat 3: PelmeshkaMan (12,755)
Seat 4: shark ffm (25,314)
Seat 5: yohemi (32,122)
Seat 6: Cabralito157 (37,390)
Seat 7: nikedunklowpro (43,335)
Seat 8: 1danw2 (36,518)
Seat 9: Rudy2704 (37,941)
sue_bencao antes 150
Link-nik1 antes 150
PelmeshkaMan antes 150
shark ffm antes 150
yohemi antes 150
Cabralito157 antes 150
nikedunklowpro antes 150
1danw2 antes 150
Rudy2704 antes 150
nikedunklowpro posts the small blind of 600
1danw2 posts the big blind of 1,200
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to nikedunklowpro [Ad Kc]
Rudy2704 folds
sue_bencao folds
Link-nik1 folds
PelmeshkaMan raises to 12,605, and is all in
shark ffm folds
yohemi folds
Cabralito157 folds
nikedunklowpro raises to 43,185, and is all in
1danw2 folds
nikedunklowpro shows [Ad Kc]
PelmeshkaMan shows [Jd 7d]
Uncalled bet of 30,580 returned to nikedunklowpro
*** FLOP *** [2c 9h Jh]
*** TURN *** [2c 9h Jh] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [2c 9h Jh 7c] [Kd]
nikedunklowpro shows a pair of Kings
PelmeshkaMan shows two pair, Jacks and Sevens
PelmeshkaMan wins the pot (27,760) with two pair, Jacks and Sevens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 27,760 | Rake 0
Board: [2c 9h Jh 7c Kd]
Seat 1: sue_bencao folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Link-nik1 folded before the Flop
Seat 3: PelmeshkaMan showed [Jd 7d] and won (27,760) with two pair, Jacks and Sevens
Seat 4: shark ffm folded before the Flop
Seat 5: yohemi folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Cabralito157 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: nikedunklowpro (small blind) showed [Ad Kc] and lost with a pair of Kings

11/27/2010 1:31:19 PM

OMFG AK LOST?!?!?

Played 1-2 with the old gang on Wed. Good times.

11/27/2010 2:21:36 PM

meh I know I'm only 60/40 there but it made me extra cause everyone else is in survival mode folding everything except AA or KK and this moron shoves on the bubble with J7 and doubles up through me and costing me the chance of FTing

11/27/2010 6:46:48 PM

At least he wasn't playing just to make the money. I hate it when people stall. Esp when its hand for hand. Morons....

11/27/2010 6:59:40 PM

dude that is a ho hum example. pretty standard bubble play

11/28/2010 4:51:42 AM

ssly we should have a weekly tww game

11/28/2010 4:53:25 AM

^I would be down, not sure if I could play every week though

11/28/2010 11:25:46 PM

Ugh. Just got knocked out of a 2/180 in 15th when my set of 3s was destroyed on a 2-outer on the river and I would have been chip leader. So fucking hard to take bad beats like that. On a plus note, I'm crushing this game ATM. Cashing in about 50%. Just need to win a few more.

11/29/2010 7:31:15 PM

^nice, I just went out in a $32K guarantee with AA, 3 way all in pre vs KK and 66, K on flop, would've been top 10 in chips, typical

11/29/2010 8:17:49 PM

Yeah that sucks. Hard to blame the guy for calling your all-in though. Just got unlucky. I've been cashing somewhat consistently in >1000 tourneys too but as soon as I make the money I start getting nervous and choke before getting anywhere close to decent money. I don't know if I'm just getting unlucky or if I need to change up my play. Hard to tell.

11/29/2010 8:57:44 PM

Finished 4th in an Absolute Poker Freeroll of over 3400 people! Only got 4 bucks out of it, but seeing how I never put real money into poker, it's a sense of accomplishment and some money to play with.

11/29/2010 9:26:55 PM

not enjoying the whinefest that this thread has become

11/29/2010 9:30:15 PM

Yeah, I just wanted somewhere to vent. I'd post hands up here but I'm just playing every hand perfectly

11/29/2010 9:59:36 PM

What are the online poker laws? Just curious, as I have turned 4 free bucks into 30 so far and was curious if i would be able to ever cash out.

12/12/2010 12:27:28 AM

You're going to get arrested.

Just played in canada for the first time. Should have gone sat night instead. Too many locals today. The conversion factor was annoying and they charged me for booze. Apparently its a govt thing. Played 2hrs. Ended up only losing $75 after making a nice qq laydown vs kk vs aa.

12/12/2010 7:48:49 PM

anybody played rush poker yet? thoughts?

1/4/2011 3:58:26 AM

yeah, not much diff than multitabling 6-8 tables as far as speed goes. You get moved to a new table as soon as you fold so you don't really get to know any of the players. I min raise a lot from the cutoff or button if there are no players in the pot yet, bc a lot of times the players use the c/f button from the bb. A lot of players seem more willing to shove big stacks with 10/10 JJ AK pre. I usually just sit back and play premiums and steal blinds while I wait.

The rush tourneys are pretty fun too, won a $5 one a few months ago for like $750 or so.

1/4/2011 1:26:28 PM

consider the stakes here

buy in was $322

6 people left. 3 cash, 2 get the WPT seats

Full Tilt Poker Game #26989967315: WPT - Shooting Star Qualifier (207323070), Table 8 - 800/1600 Ante 200 - No Limit Hold'em - 01:11:19 ET - 2011/01/05
Seat 1: daisyxoxo (41,643)
Seat 2: ahogger (35,620)
Seat 4: redorangebrown (64,352)
Seat 5: Ill Hellmuth (51,455)
Seat 8: ambiguosity (68,224)
Seat 9: fokker44 (59,706)
daisyxoxo antes 200
ahogger antes 200
redorangebrown antes 200
Ill Hellmuth antes 200
ambiguosity antes 200
fokker44 antes 200
ambiguosity posts the small blind of 800
fokker44 posts the big blind of 1,600
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ill Hellmuth [Js Ac]
daisyxoxo folds
ahogger raises to 4,800
redorangebrown calls 4,800
Ill Hellmuth calls 4,800
ambiguosity folds
fokker44 folds
*** FLOP *** [6h Jd 9h]
ahogger bets 3,200
redorangebrown folds
Ill Hellmuth raises to 46,455, and is all in
ahogger calls 27,420, and is all in
Ill Hellmuth shows [Js Ac]
ahogger shows [9d 8s]
Uncalled bet of 15,835 returned to Ill Hellmuth
*** TURN *** [6h Jd 9h] [8h]
*** RIVER *** [6h Jd 9h 8h] [7d]
Ill Hellmuth shows a pair of Jacks
ahogger shows two pair, Nines and Eights
ahogger wins the pot (79,240) with two pair, Nines and Eights
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 79,240 | Rake 0
Board: [6h Jd 9h 8h 7d]
Seat 1: daisyxoxo folded before the Flop
Seat 2: ahogger showed [9d 8s] and won (79,240) with two pair, Nines and Eights
Seat 4: redorangebrown folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Ill Hellmuth (button) showed [Js Ac] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 8: ambiguosity (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: fokker44 (big blind) folded before the Flop

1/5/2011 1:18:46 AM

^ sucks man, I'm guessing he put you on KQ or heart draw

I probably pop it to $15k or so on the flop instead of the shove, but that's just me

Either way I'm prob not folding in that spot if he shoves or stop and goes, just got unlucky

1/5/2011 11:22:23 AM

He only had 27K left. I'd def shove.

1/5/2011 11:31:17 AM

now that ive cooled off a bit, looking back i should have pushed PF. It was the first time i had taken my foot off the gas all tourney. What slowed me down and caused me just to call was the call by the player to my right(redorangebrown). He was very solid and it was the first time i had seen him just call a raise.

I wouldnt change anything I did after that...just sucks getting that far playing through an incredibly tough field just to have that bs happen.

1/6/2011 8:09:11 AM

How much are the WPT seats worth?

1/6/2011 9:48:03 AM