yes haha, but again, if the 08-09 season is the same as 07-08, you've gotta cut ties. That's too many years in the hole, and you've got another two years in the hole with a new coach coming on with HIS freshman. We'll see precedents set after this year as far as coaches getting the ax.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 12:59 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2008 12:57:59 PM

i know one sure fire way to assure some extra rebuilding / years in the hole

to hire a new coach every 2-3 years

2/18/2008 12:59:52 PM

It took Dean Smith a few years at carolina to get goin. But Sydney has to learn from his mistakes

2/18/2008 1:05:27 PM

SIDNEY NOT SYDNEY DAMN IT

2/18/2008 1:06:14 PM

^^Exactly. If the NC State fans had their wishes they would have run off Dean AND Coack K back in the day.

What if, just what if Sid becomes like the next Coach K in terms of coaching ability. I'm sure Coach K took plenty of lumps and had to learn a hell of a lot along the way. But you people would run him out of town.

ANY coach gets at least 4 years to prove his worth.

2/18/2008 1:09:10 PM

Hey guys, it's 2008! Games changed a bit in the last twenty years...

2/18/2008 1:11:43 PM

i know one sure fire way to assure some extra rebuilding / years in the hole

to hire a new coach every 2-3 years

2/18/2008 1:19:51 PM

Quote :

"i know one sure fire way to assure some extra rebuilding / years in the hole"

Run off a good coach taking you to the NCAA tournament yearly and finishing top 4 in the ACC?

2/18/2008 1:26:35 PM

it's funny that you feel the need to bring this up daily

2/18/2008 1:30:41 PM

Maybe because I was right?

jbrick83 nailed this thread on the previous page when talking about Fowler sucking ass and should have gotten a coach to take the program to the next level. You know as dirty as Calipari is, I would kill to have him here.

2/18/2008 1:32:47 PM

How many people in this thread are really saying Sidney needs to be fired after this year?? I'm asking because I haven't read all 28 pages of this thread...but I really doubt there are more than five people that would agree that Sidney needs to be fired after this year.

I personally think he should get 4 to 5 years unless he completely lays a fucking egg next year...I'm talking bottom three of the ACC.

And we need to get off of this Dean Smith/Coach K shit. First, do your fucking research. Dean Smith didn't have real shitty seasons when he started off...he had a couple mediocre seasons and started playing black players...that's why the fans hated him. I mean shit...that was over 40 years ago. And Coach K inherited a poor program. Second, college basketball is a different world now. You can turn a program around a lot faster these days. You don't normally need more than five years to determine whether or not a coach can coach. And that's what we are trying to figure out right now...IS SIDNEY LOWE A GOOD BASKETBALL COACH??. He's got great assistants who know how to run a college program...Larry Harris can recruit his ass off and Strickland and Towe have been coaching well as college coaches for years. So there should be no "adjusting to the college game" type excuses.

Sidney had a shitty record as an NBA coach and a good record as an assistant NBA coach. It's not like it's his first year ever coaching basketball. He's got good basketball players here and by next year will have a decent amount of them as his recruits (and a few of the ones that aren't his are great players).

I'm not agreeing with the "get rid of Sid now!" talk...but I'm also definitely disagreeing with the "look at Coach K/Dean Smith...Sid could be one of those if we give him 5+ years" crap.

2/18/2008 1:33:04 PM

^

Quote :

"I personally think he should get 4 to 5 years unless he completely lays a fucking egg next year...I'm talking bottom three of the ACC."

Exactly. Need to see that after three years, he's at least headed in the right direction.

On a sad but serious note, any fan that thinks NC State has a chance to finish higher than third in the ACC anytime in the next ten years needs a serious reality check.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 1:37 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2008 1:34:01 PM

"four more years"

2/18/2008 1:35:06 PM

Quote :

"I think we could have found a better PG than Javi out there who would have wanted to play in the ACC for two former excellent collegiate point guards."

I asked this in the recruiting thread and got an answer but I can't verfify it. We offered Javi over Chris Warren. Of course no one expected Warren to be as good as he is, but check out his #'s for Ole Miss and think about that on our team!

------ the '09 class is make or break. With Wall and Favors listing us still we NEED to grab one of those two. If not, then I hate to say it, but it's going to be tough to climb out of that 4th best in the state hole we're in right now...

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 1:41 PM. Reason : x]

2/18/2008 1:39:22 PM

^holy shit. i had no clue we were after him. fuck us for getting javi. lol

2/18/2008 1:40:27 PM

you have to give him time, if for no other reason than you won't be able to hire anyone else if you don't.

you don't have to give 10 years, but you have to give more than 2.

2/18/2008 1:40:59 PM

^^ according to Scout.com Warren came here on a verified official visit... but we never offered.

Quote :

"And Coach K inherited a poor program."

No he didn't. A poor TEAM maybe, but far froma poor program. They made the Final 4 like 2 years before his hire.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 1:43 PM. Reason : x]

2/18/2008 1:42:18 PM

there are 3 people saying he needs to go this or next year.

but they are posting 10x for each time the rest of us post. so it looks skewed

2/18/2008 1:43:10 PM

Quote :

"it's going to be tough to climb out of that 4th best in the state hole we're in right now..."

5th best this year, sadly

2/18/2008 1:49:29 PM

Quote :

"as dirty as Calipari is, I would kill to have him here"

and he already said no once so why would he come here now

Quote :

"You can turn a program around a lot faster these days"

In UNC's and Duke's backyard you can??

2/18/2008 1:52:10 PM

Quote :

"On a sad but serious note, any fan that thinks NC State has a chance to finish higher than third in the ACC anytime in the next ten years needs a serious reality check."

10 years?? Why is that so unrealistic? So many things can change in college basketball in 10 years, and especially in the ACC. Didn't we finish 2nd in the ACC standings a couple of years ago?

2/18/2008 1:52:13 PM

yeah we did...although i dont think what he said was COMPLETELY unrealistic...and if we finish 3rd every year behind UNC/Duke or Duke/UNC, is that so bad?

2/18/2008 1:53:52 PM

Quote :

" In UNC's and Duke's backyard you can??"

Yeah...actually you can. We turned the worst program in the ACC into a NCAA tourney team in five years. With the team/program that Sidney was given, he shouldn't be given 2 years to fuck it up then 3+ more years to build it back up again. At the worst we should have taken a small step back last year (which I guess you can saw we did), then been back at the "solid NCAA-team" level this year. Right now we are on track for "bottom-tier of the ACC" status....next year doesn't look so good right now.


Reasons for Coaching Changes:

1) NCAA violations: see Sampson

2) Complete shittiness: see NC State before Herb. Any of the past Clemson coaches, save Rick Barnes. Etc. In this case you give the coach a couple years of similar shittiness before you need to see significant improvement.

3) Can't get over the hump: see NC State with Herb, Dave Odom at Wake, Kentucky with Tubby Smith, etc. In this case you give the coach a "transition period" of one or two years of less-than-mediocre to mediocre seasons before you need to be better off than when he started. You don't run off a coach to take two steps back as a program.

Its 2008, not 1998. The rope isn't as long with Sidney as it was with Herb...but I think Sidney knew that before he started.

2/18/2008 2:05:49 PM

i promise you that no matter what you think you want, you don't want (and will not get) sidney fired after two seasons.

no coach worth anything will want to come here if we did that, and it'd be an all around shitty thing to do. so you might as well live w/ it for at least another two years.

2/18/2008 3:06:40 PM

Quote :

"i promise you that no matter what you think you want, you don't want (and will not get) sidney fired after two seasons."

Who wants that??

I'd like a list of what posters want Sidney fired after this year (even if we lose out). Those posters should be banned from the site because they are retarded.

2/18/2008 3:17:15 PM

I don't think there are very many, if any.

Quote :

" I just looked at Ben Howland's career stats, and he's had 1 NCAA appearance in his first two years as coach of three different teams. The next two years with those teams, he won the conference 5 out of 6 times, had 4 sweet 16's, two Final Four's, and a Finals appearance. This year isn't so bad either.... If Sid doesn't improve fairly drastically in 08-09, I see him gone."

But..... if next season is the same as this one, God help him.

2/18/2008 3:21:36 PM

Quote :

"Can't get over the hump: see NC State with Herb, Dave Odom at Wake, Kentucky with Tubby Smith"

yeah, it sucks Tubby never won a NC at Kentucky

2/18/2008 3:24:31 PM

Quote :

"This year isn't so bad either...."

This year is actually pretty bad.

- I'd say one of the worst halves played in NC State history (down 30 to UNC at half).

- Smacked by Clemson twice (we kind of gave them a game in the RBC).

- Up by 9 at Duke at halftime and lose by 20.

- Lost to UNO and ECU.

- No big wins.

- No blowouts of shitty ACC teams (Wake, Miami, FSU, Va Tech).

What about this year hasn't been bad?? Sadly, if the trend continues, Sid will still get at least four years. Even though he would deserve to get the boot next year if we continue to suck, Lee Fowler is still our AD. So if we don't get improvement, I think Sid is gone by year 4...definitely by year 5.

2/18/2008 3:29:13 PM

^^That was his first year though. He got ran because he didn't get to a Final Four for the next nine years-with UK fan's expectations being a little higher than NC State's. He won the SEC at least 5 times though.

^At this time next year, if he repeats the most of the above, someone needs to talk to him about resigning. He would need to leave graciously or something, saying it's a family matter or whatever

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2008 3:29:57 PM

Quote :

"yeah, it sucks Tubby never won a NC at Kentucky"

Don't be stupid. In the eyes of Kentucky fans (and basically the eyes of most college basketball observers) Tubby won with Rick's players (obviously...he won the national championship the first year he coached there).

After that he took Kentucky from a great team that could contend for an NCAA championship every year....to a good team. Then he couldn't back over that hump to get Kentucky to where their fans wanted them to be. It might have been a different hump than what NC State is trying to get over...but its still a hump.

2/18/2008 3:34:05 PM

Quote :

"- I'd say one of the worst halves played in NC State history (down 30 to UNC at half)."

10 points in the first half, vs. St. Johns, much worse, under SENDEK

Quote :

"- Up by 9 at Duke at halftime and lose by 20."

did you already forget the few times Herb got us to the ACC finals and we had a lead on Duke late in the 2nd half and then we fall apart?

We're having a bad season but he wasn't exactly left with much...hey Herb, Atsur is going to be a senior next year, do you think you should recruit a point guard to replace him? No? Just let the next coach worry about it? Thanks.

2/18/2008 3:36:51 PM

If Redick would have committed elsewhere, Herb would still be living and working in Raleigh.
^You need to read up on your PG theory there......

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 3:40 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2008 3:38:51 PM

^^First...I didn't say it was the worst....I said it was one of the worst. I would put the St. Johns game as "one of the worst in history" also. However...how many points did St. Johns have in that game too?? The half against UNC was one of the worst offensively and defensively.

And shit...I'm not comparing the two coaches...quit bringing Sendek into this crap. I'm just saying it has been a bad fucking season. But if you want to argue it...we've had some Sendek collapses...but I would bet we haven't had too many 30-point turnarounds....IN ONE FUCKING HALF!

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 3:41 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2008 3:40:44 PM

Quote :

"hey Herb, Atsur is going to be a senior next year, do you think you should recruit a point guard to replace him? No? Just let the next coach worry about it? Thanks."

Why do you keep saying this? It's fucking idiotic. He had Chris Wright committed to come here. It isn't his job to hold that commitment while he is recruiting at Arizona State... Actually Herb has gotten 2 PGs since then for ASU that are pretty good (Glasser and Nate's kid).

Plus, it's not like we don't have PGs. We just don't have good PGs...

---- Lowe didn't have a NCAA Tourney team last year because it was not deep AND young... this year his team is both deep and experienced. Shame on us for expecting more.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 3:45 PM. Reason : x]

2/18/2008 3:43:51 PM

nym. we have no point guards. it is sickeningly eerie to football season with no quarterback.

we simply don't have them. if you call them true point guards you need to go watch some high school games b/c i've seen players outplay this kid right around the corner at local high schools

2/18/2008 3:49:53 PM

Herb left us with nothing...his last recruiting class brought in Dennis Horner and Bartosz Lewandowski...wtf are we supposed to do with that?

its on when Mays gets here though

2/18/2008 3:49:59 PM

wtf would Herb care? He knew he was gonna get bounced one way or the other. Why would he walk into some 17 year old kids house, speak to his mother and father, and make false promises???

BTW Herb already has 2 4*'s for 2009.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 3:55 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2008 3:52:22 PM

^^You mean Herb didn't have Chris Wright coming in?? A top 5 point guard? Or Dan Werner, a top starter for Florida right now?? Or Larry Davis (I actually have no idea what the fuck Larry Davis is doing right now).

Quit brinigng Herb into this and stick to discussing Sidney Lowe unless you want your arguments to continue to get shot down.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 3:53 PM. Reason : just checked....and Larry Davis is a role player for Seton Hall right now...nothing special]

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 3:54 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2008 3:52:28 PM

did Wright or Werner end up going to State? who cares who was GOING to come in...recruiting classes aren't based on what players you were in the hunt for...he landed Horner and Bartosz...thats it

and I'm bringing up Herb because you have to take into account where the program was when Sidney picked it up...it was with a senior PG and no freshman backup...put Javy or Johnson as UNC's starting PG and they'd have 6-8 losses already

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 3:55 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2008 3:54:40 PM

State gives its BB head coaches at least 10 years to turn it around, hell, Herbie would still be here if he didnt go to ASU, wasnt like he was going to be fired.

Since Lowe is a former player, we will probably give him 15 years.
He looked lost in the last game, dancing around the sidelines like he didnt know what to do.

2/18/2008 3:55:12 PM

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HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB


there. we've mentioned herb enough in this thread. can we move on plz???

2/18/2008 3:55:25 PM

^^^I am convinced you are my wife because you are so fucking dense. Quit post-stalking honey.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 3:56 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2008 3:55:57 PM

Quote :

"He looked lost in the last game, dancing around the sidelines like he didnt know what to do."

Kinda like our players on defense.

2/18/2008 3:57:07 PM

Quote :

"there. we've mentioned herb enough in this thread. can we move on plz???"

you're right, lets spend 30 more pages bashing our current coach

you motherfuckers are pathetic

2/18/2008 3:58:10 PM

obviously i didn't say his name enough for you

HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERBHERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB GUNNZ HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB

2/18/2008 3:59:39 PM

When are gonna need some herbs in the next couple years with this clown as our BB HC.

2/18/2008 4:00:04 PM

Quote :

"did Wright or Werner end up going to State? who cares who was GOING to come in...recruiting classes aren't based on what players you were in the hunt for...he landed Horner and Bartosz...thats it"

Herb actually landed all of those players...Sidney was only able to keep Horner and Bartosz. Can't really blame either one of them...but I'm sure you'll continue to blame Herb for Sidney's shitty coaching this year.

2/18/2008 4:00:09 PM

HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERBHERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB GUNNZ HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB HERB

are we done yet?

2/18/2008 4:00:46 PM

Bashing our current is coach is acceptable when he underachieves. And it's not like we weren't bashing our old coach when he was here.

2/18/2008 4:02:15 PM

Texas Tech was 12-10, 3-3 conference when Bobby Knight called it quits

Clearly Bobby Knight is a shitty coach, and the lack of talent on his team (or Sid's team) has nothing to do with it

If Lowe is such a shitty coach, how did he manage to beat UNC and Duke last year? Are those big wins out of his system forever, is he now destined to suck ass? Or could some of this possibly be because WE DON'T HAVE A FUCKING POINT GUARD AND YOU CAN'T WIN SHIT IN COLLEGE BASKETBALL WITHOUT A POINT GUARD

2/18/2008 4:03:06 PM