company stock up 17% for the day now so tempting to sell at days end.

[Edited on May 13, 2008 at 3:33 PM. Reason : ]

5/13/2008 3:26:38 PM

I've done great selling and buying back puts on EWZ this month.

5/13/2008 3:41:02 PM

Same here with RIG. Ultra-deepwater drilling FTW.

[Edited on May 13, 2008 at 3:48 PM. Reason : RIG! woot!]

5/13/2008 3:48:16 PM

I've been riding natural gas (FCG) and oil (OIL) for awhile now with some nice gains. I think those babies still have legs but its going to be interesting to try to time the sell.

5/13/2008 7:20:31 PM

are we at a double top?

5/14/2008 12:11:59 PM

uh....yes? no idea what that is.

5/14/2008 1:46:56 PM

Double Top/Bottom
When price peaks after a rise, and the decline that follows leads to another rise in prices to form a second peak at or about the level of the first peak, a double peak is said to have formed.

5/14/2008 2:15:37 PM

Excuse the noobage but a newly started investor has a quick question. I've been lurking this board for a while and finally want to get my hands dirty

Has anyone on here ever read The Little Book that Beats the Market by Joel Greenblatt? If so, what do you think about the basics taught in the book? Is this a good place for a new investor to jump in?

I've just started looking at putting in some money into the stock market. I'm basically going for better returns on money that would otherwise be sitting in a bank savings account. I am a fairly risky individual and I won't be looking for short-term gains, but rather steady gains over the long-run. Any advice??

5/14/2008 3:01:52 PM

beating a savings account is no feat. what people strive for is beating the S&P 500.

if i remember correctly, the book you're talking about is basically a dude who has a pretty simple formula for value (as opposed to, say, growth) investing.


if you're a true newcomer to the game, and/or don't plan on putting a good bit of effort into the endeavor, you will be better served by going with funds. ETFs are a good way to go.

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 3:20 PM. Reason : and yes, you're young. take on risk--swing for the fences right now and get some big gains.]

5/14/2008 3:19:35 PM

What are the basics that it teaches?

5/14/2008 3:20:36 PM

Good companies at cheap prices (layman’s terms). Its a fairly simple book but teaches finding companies by two factors: return on capital and earnings yield. He's goes to show great detail on how well this has played out over the course of the last 25 years.

Now I know this has nothing to do with the future of this formula, but I was wonder what people thought about putting these ideals to use for a "hands-off" approach I am going for. Would this be considered strictly "value" investing?

Basically, I will be opening an "savings account" within the stock market. I plan on contributing money to this account over time and I would expect this account to grow better than any savings account over the next 20+ years.

^^Any specific ETFs that you would recommend for a starter?

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 3:52 PM. Reason : question]

5/14/2008 3:51:22 PM

Just bought some SOL before market close ... 22 bucks even.

year ago quarterly net income up over 100%


Sold some CSCO to make it happen

5/14/2008 3:53:49 PM

^^ read this:

The Best Investment Advice You'll Never Get
http://www.sanfran.com/home/view_story/1507/

I post it a lot, but it's always worth a read.

5/14/2008 3:53:59 PM

^ link broken?

http://www.sanfranmag.com/story/best-investment-advice-youll-never-get

Same article?? Damn 13 pages is a lot...

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 3:57 PM. Reason : adf]

5/14/2008 3:56:33 PM

I didn't even see Duke's post when I responded. I completely agree, go for some good ETFs if you're going to do more of a hands off approach.

Some of my favorites are EWZ and VWO. I also have a a decent chunk of my cash in ETJ, ETV, and ETW which are closed end funds that pay a 10% dividend with little fluctuation in stock price.

I also picked up some TIP the other week. It's an iShares fund made mostly of inflation protected bonds.

5/14/2008 3:58:52 PM

<--- this guy loves ETFs too

5/14/2008 4:31:17 PM

^^

yeah, that's it. it's a long read, but well worth it.

5/14/2008 4:31:37 PM

I bought USU just under a month ago at $5.00 and promptly sold May calls at $5 for around $0.52/share. I'm a bit bummed that I did that because it closed at $5.77 today. I had some called away earlier this week and the rest will be assigned on Friday at $5.00.

It works out thought, I made over a 10% return in less than a month. I just wish that I'd bought more.

5/14/2008 4:34:57 PM

finally out of the hole today with the vanguard etf's i bought in november

5/14/2008 4:37:37 PM

Which ones?

5/14/2008 4:42:46 PM

VWO
VOT
VPU

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 4:50 PM. Reason : pretty much even amounts]

5/14/2008 4:49:38 PM

I've had VWO since it was in the 60s. Great stuff.

Not necessarily stock market related, but Forbes listed Raleigh as #5 in it's list of 10 recession proof cities:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/29/cities-recession-places-forbeslife-cx_jz_0429realestate.html

5/14/2008 4:54:19 PM

does anyone have a link to a website or program that would allow you to 'practice' investing for a while. I know i played around with one for some finance class back when i was a student but now that i actually have the $$ i'd like to test drive before i buy

5/14/2008 5:04:42 PM

^

http://contests.cnbc.com/milliondollar/main.do

The CNBC portfolio challenge is on now, it might be worth looking at.

5/14/2008 5:09:20 PM

i also own VWO

5/14/2008 5:22:48 PM

Buy/Writes with ETF's are a very safe bet over time, not a home run short term wise, but owning ETF's, writing CC"s against them, and re-investing the CC proceeds back into more of the ETF (essentially compounding it) can yield like a ridiculous ROI over 15 years, killing the S & P. If you get called out, then buy it again coe Monday after exp. The key is the CC's and reinvesting them back into the ETF.

5/14/2008 6:00:31 PM

can you be more specific and give a play by play of how that would happen ...

Give us an example of something you are doing this with, with a timeline. please

5/14/2008 6:02:58 PM

I'm looking at the IWM right now, which is the ETF for the Russell index, small cap Co's. Depending upon your budget, you'd need at least 100 shares to sell a covered call against it month to month. So let's say I buy 100 shares of the IWM at 73.40, $7,340. I would then sell a CC one (or two) strikes out of the money, in this case, the June 75's. Bring in a $1.28, and that's the bid. If you did this with an ETF over a large amount of time, and reinvest the CC proceeds ($1.28) you'd make a large ROI over 15 years, well over 500%. If the stock got over 75 by the third Friday of June, I'd just get my 100 shares called out, and buy it back on Monday, and then sell another CC yet again. I think the ETF's themselves get taxed 60/40 Capital gains/ordinary income, but the CC's would be ordinary income. The logic here is that ETF's don't move in either direction too rapidly, so two strikes out of the money should be good 4 out of 5 months, but if you do get called out, it's going to be realized. it would be best to do this in an IRA where it's tax deferred though, and from what I've seen, reinvesting the CC proceeds for more shares of the ETF is the key.

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 6:38 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2008 6:31:30 PM

yeah, I only do trading in my Roth anyhow ... tired of messing with tax issues.


So, if it hits 75, say the 2nd week of june ... then at that point, you have sold for your current price of 73.40, and thats all you make? Or do you get to keep the 1.28 no matter what happens?

5/14/2008 6:50:10 PM

Ok ... so its still an option, so the person who pays you the premium gets to decide when to excercise it ... and can do so up to that strike date. So, at that point, say the stock is at 77 ... they only pay 75 for it ... and you dont get to put the premium in your pocket. If they dont excercise, say it only goes up to 74.90 ... then you keep the premium and the stock.

5/14/2008 7:12:27 PM

Quote :

"Buy/Writes with ETF's are a very safe bet over time, not a home run short term wise, but owning ETF's, writing CC"s against them, and re-investing the CC proceeds back into more of the ETF (essentially compounding it) can yield like a ridiculous ROI over 15 years, killing the S & P. If you get called out, then buy it again coe Monday after exp. The key is the CC's and reinvesting them back into the ETF."

Thats honestly the biggest part of my investing strategy. I generally keep enough cash handy so that I can sell puts on some ETFs that I might want more of or don't have any of to begin with.

This month I sold puts on EWZ at 85 for $1.35. Last week I bought to close for $0.35 and sold 90s at $1.45 the same day. I went on to close those this week for $.45 or so. I ended up netting $2 per share without ever buying the stock. I don't have my numbers in front of me so that may be off a little bit, all I know is that EWZ puts are making my mortgage payment this month.

5/14/2008 8:04:38 PM

Would you like to manage my money? I'll take a free mortgage payment or two

5/14/2008 8:19:42 PM

Quote :

"This month I sold puts on EWZ at 85 for $1.35. Last week I bought to close for $0.35 and sold 90s at $1.45 the same day. I went on to close those this week for $.45 or so. I ended up netting $2 per share without ever buying the stock. I don't have my numbers in front of me so that may be off a little bit, all I know is that EWZ puts are making my mortgage payment this month."

Exactly what I'm doing with the IWM, sold 71's a week ago for 0.66, and going to sell for June as soon as I get a down day, the may 71's will likely expire worthless in 40 hours. I'm wanting to own IWM, so why not shave a little before I flat out buy the stock. I would have rolled up as you did with EWZ, but I'd like to own IWM, so I'm holding to expiration in hopes of owning it, or getting the full premium out of it, plus rolling up would almost mean selling an ITM put, and that's not going to happen. If it was a stock I didn't want to own, yea I'd close it down when I'm up 70-85% of the trade as you mentioned. robster, just google stock options, you can get all of the basics covered in a half hour of reading.

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 9:10 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2008 9:09:37 PM

All of my EWZ was called away from me recently so I'm just playing with their puts knowing that it wouldn't hurt if they ended up being assigned. I saw the opportunity to make some cash without buying and jumped on it. For once it actually worked out for me!

5/14/2008 9:40:41 PM

SOL up 17% today for those who werent paying attention ... holy crap thats an awesome 24 hour investment.

Maybe I should just sell and run ...

5/15/2008 11:37:33 PM

it doesnt count unless you sell

5/15/2008 11:51:03 PM

true ... what if I put a stop order in ... does it semi count then??

5/16/2008 6:53:22 AM

i remember back when i had a fling with JRJC -- i think she's at it again -- i'm probably going to stay away now



http://www.imeem.com/clarenyc/music/rdEkGP9w/lil_wayne_feat_kanye_west_lollipop_remix_feat_kanye_west_d/

[Edited on May 16, 2008 at 10:32 AM. Reason : ]

5/16/2008 10:13:02 AM

NCSUMEB and Mr. Joshua

i've never even considered derivatives on ETFs, largely due to how slow they move relative to stocks. i need to look into this.

5/16/2008 11:14:56 AM

I know that you guys are sick of hearing me talk about ETV, ETW, and ETJ, but I just looked at the charts and they've all been climbing steadily since mid-April. The market value has been far below the net asset value for probably over a year now and it looks like the price is floating back up. It's a good long term investment for any passive investors.

I bought my first ETJ in November and it's already up ~10% (on top of the 10% dividend that I've gotten six months of).

5/16/2008 3:38:42 PM

^ preaching to the choir with me

5/16/2008 5:55:48 PM

Just sold my IFX stocks (bought at 6.92 a share and sold it at 10.20)

Time to celebrate!

5/17/2008 7:59:01 PM

just a hunch but i see OJ doing very well this year

5/18/2008 4:01:00 AM

I sold Jun $135 calls on MOS Friday at $5.70 each. I bought to close today at $3.80 each.

That's $1.90/share over two trading days. Hopefully I'll be able to resell on it's next up day.

5/19/2008 3:24:46 PM

Also worth noting, VLCCF pays nearly a 10% dividend and has it's next one this Thursday. It might be worth buying a few puts by Wednesday and then selling them on Friday once the price drops back off.

5/19/2008 3:38:33 PM

^ dividend's are baked into the price of the option, no free lunches...pretty risky to sell calls on MOS, or any of those ag stocks with the volatility they have...Just anticipate a down day or what?

5/19/2008 7:33:07 PM

The MOS ones are covered calls, I want those anyway, I'm just selling and buying as the price oscillates and increasing my return. If it takes a dive I'll probably end up buying some puts just to protect myself, although I don't see it taking much of a hit.

As far as VLCCF, I've played with it before and think I might roll the dice on it this time around.

5/19/2008 7:39:17 PM

I think I might pick up some USO or at least play with it's options.

5/20/2008 2:40:08 PM

shorting it is about the only thing id do.

5/20/2008 4:21:08 PM

word

5/20/2008 4:22:04 PM