People are upset over our worst conference record in the entire history of the university

12/2/2013 7:13:13 PM

Quote :

"TOB would have gotten this team to a bowl."

Ehh, maybe. Maybe not. Impossible to say. I don't think anybody is clamoring to get TOB back. Shit, TOB had Wilson and Glennon as his QBs and never did better than a Champs Sports Bowl win over West Virginia. This year, no matter who the coach was, we had no QB. That was gonna be a problem for TOB, DD, or any other coach. TOB put all his eggs in one basket for the 2012 season. So we knew 2013, even with TOB, was a rebuilding season

I'm definitely disappointed in this season. 0-8 in the conference is embarrassing. But I'm not ready to write DD off so soon.

12/2/2013 7:23:35 PM

Quote :

"TOB would have gotten this team to a bowl."

You're out of your fucking mind.

You can argue that he wouldn't have gone 0-8 in the ACC, but we wouldn't have taken this team to a freaking bowl.

Quote :

"I just want to say that there is an awful lot of "would of" on this page. Carry on."

[Edited on December 2, 2013 at 7:30 PM. Reason : ^ +1]

12/2/2013 7:30:35 PM

if doeren would of won a few acc games, we wouldn't be having this argument

[Edited on December 2, 2013 at 7:50 PM. Reason : eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

12/2/2013 7:47:44 PM

Wonder if New Hanover HS will make try to hire him away. We can't compete with that location and weather.

12/2/2013 8:18:16 PM

^Get 'em on the schedule. We need a WTF win lined up for next year to prevent getting shut out.

12/2/2013 8:25:50 PM

Out, damn'd spot! out, I say!—One; two: why, then
'tis time to do't.—Hell is murky.—Fie, my lord, fie, a soldier, and
afeard? What need we fear who knows it, when none can call our
pow'r to accompt?—Yet who would have thought the old man to
have had so much blood in him?


There is blood on our hands for killing our first born son. We bathed in the waters of Lake Minnetoka. Russell Wilson died for our sins and we turned our back on the holiest of holy Gods. We shall never win again until our sins are paid for. We've chopped off the head of TOB, but there are still people who must be held accountable. They must be removed from the program. All heads must roll for what they did to Russell.

We must string all the men associated with the lynching of Russell Wilson. It's time to take down TOB's body. Come down. Get off your fucking cross. We need the fucking space to nail the next fool martyr.


I'll leave you with a quote from the movie Poltergeist which prominently featured one Craig T. Nelson. You may know him as simply 'Coach'. He was a man who would have never betrayed our one and only RW.

You son of a bitch! You moved the cemetery, but you left the bodies, didn't you? You son of a bitch, you left the bodies and you only moved the headstones! You only moved the headstones! Lies! Lies!



[Edited on December 3, 2013 at 12:09 AM. Reason : pain is love.]

12/3/2013 12:08:52 AM

Please, for the love of God, stop using "would of".

12/3/2013 12:18:57 AM

we need to schedule Washington and kick them while they're down

12/3/2013 12:20:04 AM

If hypothetically someone asked me who is the best 7 foot basketball player who currently resides in wake county id ask you two immediate follow up questions.

1) whoa did I just see McDonalds brought back the Mcrib? Never eaten one they just look nasty.

And

2) where does kevin salvadori live right now?


What day is it, January?

12/3/2013 12:40:14 AM

Damn, face had a nice drunk on last night!

12/3/2013 8:59:57 AM

Didnt drink at all im just whacked out after a 6 week binge

12/3/2013 9:03:41 AM

0-8 is always a short leash no matter what. it doesn't mean he's on the hotseat and it doesn't mean he can't succeed it just means watch out.

this team was bad but not as bad as the record. the qb play was so bad that the team gave up. losing the team is on the coach. most of the players stopped trying after the clemson game or the game after that.

tob would have won 5 or 6 games with this team because it was his team. that doesn't make him a better coach. the trajectory of the program was certainly in the wrong direction.

[Edited on December 3, 2013 at 11:11 AM. Reason : k]

12/3/2013 11:08:14 AM

Mack Brown got off to a bad start at UNC too. Just saying. Just like Auburn and a 100 other success stories which are not applicable to our current dreadful situation.

12/3/2013 1:14:46 PM

It will be interesting to see how long it takes DD to get back to a career .500 conference record.

12/3/2013 1:29:40 PM

1 year, right?

12/3/2013 2:03:21 PM

12/3/2013 2:07:16 PM

Quote :

"the trajectory of the program was certainly in the wrong direction. "

That's a bold statement. It's hard to argue that when he took us to 3 consecutive bowl games, and 4 bowl games in 5 years after inheriting a 3 win team with a walk-on QB.


Look, you can make the argument that his recruiting wasn't where it needed to be. That's fair. But he knew how to win with what he had. He won 3 conference games with Daniel Freaking Evans, man. Give the guy some credit.


Would Tommy have taken this years team bowling? We'll never know. I'd wager no, but I'd also guess that a coach that won 3 conference games with a walk-on and the tubbiest transfer of all time could have done better than zero wins in conference play.


There seems to be this perception that Doeren walked into a program that was in complete shambles. That's not the case. Yes, we had a drop-off in QB play, but I really can't fault the previous coach who just sent two consecutive QBs to the NFL for not having a third QB in the wing. And given his track record with developing QBs, it wouldn't have surprised me if he had gotten more out of this pathetic group than Doeren did. Drop-offs at QB happen to EVERY school, and a good coach can adjust and at least string together a respectable season, even if a losing one in the process.


We fired O'Brien because his recruiting wasn't up to snuff, even though his on the field results were a marked improvement from the Amato regime's final years. So Doeren had better recruit like a mother-fucker, because if he showed us one thing this year, it's that he can't win with anything less than stellar talent. So if he ever sees a dip in recruiting, I guess we should show him the door, right?


I understand why we took the gamble to get rid of O'Brien. I didn't really agree with it, but the reasoning was understandable, at least. And I'm not giving up on Doeren. He gets two more years to wipe his ass after shitting himself in public this season. But I saw NOTHING this season that gave me any optimism for next season. We weren't even competitive in our losses.

If you're gonna take a gamble and fire a coach who raised the NC State win total to 7+ a season, then you had better have an ace up your sleeve.

12/3/2013 2:50:53 PM

Quote :

". I'd wager no, but I'd also guess that a coach that won 3 conference games with a walk-on and the tubbiest transfer of all time could have done better than zero wins in conference play"

Sure, but every player in that locker room signed up to play for TOB, not DD. It was also a team built for his style.

Quote :

"but I really can't fault the previous coach who just sent two consecutive QBs to the NFL for not having a third QB in the wing. "

I can fault him, and actually it was one of my biggest knocks on TOB. If you're that good at coaching the QB spot, then why are more top QBs not lining up to play for you

Quote :

", it's that he can't win with anything less than stellar talent. So if he ever sees a dip in recruiting, I guess we should show him the door, right?"

He needs a different type of player. They could be less than stellar, but just not the same type TOB had

Quote :

"then you had better have an ace up your sleeve."

For 99.99999% of schools there is no such thing.

[Edited on December 3, 2013 at 2:56 PM. Reason : ]

12/3/2013 2:55:49 PM

Quote :

"Sure, but every player in that locker room signed up to play for TOB, not DD. It was also a team built for his style."

I was very clearly talking about 2007. So no, those weren't his players. They were recruited (or walked-on) during the Amato years. Way to completely miss the point.

Quote :

"I can fault him, and actually it was one of my biggest knocks on TOB. If you're that good at coaching the QB spot, then why are more top QBs not lining up to play for you"

Name one coach that can meet this ridiculous demand. Pete Carroll, maybe?

Quote :

"He needs a different type of player. They could be less than stellar, but just not the same type TOB had"

So he can't adapt, is what you're saying. So in other words, his success will be directly tied to his recruiting. Good to know.

Quote :

"For 99.99999% of schools there is no such thing"

My last comment (the one this is a response to), was a comment directed at Debbie Yow, not Doeren.

12/3/2013 3:04:32 PM

12/3/2013 3:04:55 PM

Quote :

"I was very clearly talking about 2007. So no, those weren't his players. They were recruited (or walked-on) during the Amato years. Way to completely miss the point."

Quote :

"Would Tommy have taken this years team bowling? We'll never know. I'd wager no, but I'd also guess that a coach that won 3 conference games with a walk-on and the tubbiest transfer of all time could have done better than zero wins in conference play."

Yes very clear. That's why in the sentence before you talk about the 2013 team, and in the end you talk about a 0 win conference team.

Quote :

"So he can't adapt, is what you're saying. So in other words, his success will be directly tied to his recruiting. Good to know."

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying he wants to run a different style than TOB. Way to completely miss the point

Quote :

"My last comment (the one this is a response to), was a comment directed at Debbie Yow, not Doeren."

No shit. That's why I clearly responded by talking about schools instead of DD.

Quote :

"Name one coach that can meet this ridiculous demand. Pete Carroll, maybe?"

Having solid QBs is a ridiculous demand?

[Edited on December 3, 2013 at 3:11 PM. Reason : ]

12/3/2013 3:05:55 PM

Quote :

"That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying he wants to run a different style than TOB. Way to completely miss the point"

Gotcha. Anyway, I was saying that O'Brien won with someone else's players and got at least a few wins out of them. That's to his credit. Doeren got goose eggs with someone else's players. That's too his detriment. The "he doesn't have his players" can excuse a few losses, but it doesn't give someone license to get waxed in conference play. It just doesn't. If he's feeling any heat, it's because he just went winless in conference play.

12/3/2013 3:11:11 PM

Quote :

"We weren't even competitive in our losses."

I am as critical of DD as anyone, but this is not true. We were right there with Clemson, Wake and Syracuse, we had a lead over Duke in the 4th quarter before we epically shit the bed, the UNC game was tight. FSU, ECU, Maryland were all blow outs and we just could not stop BC's running attack.

We clearly have a lack of talent. I am hopeful that Brisset will be a solid QB which can help hide talent flaws in many other areas.

12/3/2013 3:11:35 PM

Quote :

"The "he doesn't have his players" can excuse a few losses, but it doesn't give someone license to get waxed in conference play."

He had no QB. He put together some great game plans (see CLemson), but when you have QBs who can't throw you can't do shit. When you have an O-Line that's can't push - you can't run. I understand TOB had similar situations, but there was also more talent when he came. Hell - our classes ranked in the 50s and above that TOB left us barely have half the players left (see 2012)


I'm okay with another rough season next year; however, we have to show improvement and growth with returning players. I agree that a 0/1 win ACC record next year would be really eye opening.

[Edited on December 3, 2013 at 3:20 PM. Reason : ]

12/3/2013 3:17:56 PM

Brisket's summer camp injury will be the most epic day in tww history.

12/3/2013 3:18:34 PM

Daniel Evans.


More talented than Brandon Mitchell.

12/3/2013 3:31:33 PM

That Amato leftover O line was stacked







with shit

12/3/2013 3:36:40 PM

One was recruited as QB. One was a WR.

12/3/2013 3:36:58 PM

I think the best thing to happen to our football program is some level of apathy from fans. I haven't watched our football team this season. Nor have I filled this board with negativity. We all need to just chill out and let Yow and Doeren do their thing. We've thoroughly enjoyed the 7 win seasons and all the bowls and QBs that came with it, lets just show some patience now while this coaching staff builds a good program through good recruiting...

12/3/2013 3:37:24 PM

That sounds fucking boring and I'm not gonna do that.

12/3/2013 3:39:00 PM

well, the only other real option you have is to complain on the internet (or in real life, if you want)

12/3/2013 3:42:30 PM

I'll do a little bit of both, thank you.

12/3/2013 3:43:04 PM

Mostly because it's my lunch break.


But in all seriousness. If the Athletic Director of my alma mater wants to fire a coach because she wants to raise expectations and reach for greatness...then she can't fucking complain when people raise their expectations.

12/3/2013 3:44:29 PM

So you want to complain even if it makes you sound like an idiot?

^People should raise them. Just not unfairly.

[Edited on December 3, 2013 at 3:47 PM. Reason : ]

12/3/2013 3:44:49 PM

Quote :

"We've thoroughly enjoyed the 7 win seasons and all the bowls and QBs that came with it"

I think you have that backwards.

12/3/2013 3:46:03 PM

If apathy is what Yow needs then I'm the perfect fan. I send her my $120 WPC check every year but haven't been to Carter Finley since RW quit got ran out parted ways amicably with the university

12/3/2013 3:47:48 PM

Look, if we'd just stop caring about it, it wouldn't be an issue guyz

12/3/2013 3:48:17 PM

Quote :

"So you want to complain even if it makes you sound like an idiot?"

Yes. I'm the idiot.


You're the one who expected Tom O'Brien to have three consecutive NFL QB's come through our school.

You're the one who thinks that Daniel Evans was somehow more talented than Brandon Mitchell.

You're the one who thinks that it is apparently impossible to win without a QB programmed to run a coach's specific system.



Yes. I'm the idiot.





Look. I understand wanting to do better than what we did during O'Brien. I get that. And I understand being patient with a new coach. I get that, too. But he went winless in conference play. He barely beat Richmond. It's not absurd to be suspicious of his abilities when he's showed us NOTHING thus far. That's a totally natural reaction to how dismal of a season we just had.

[Edited on December 3, 2013 at 3:52 PM. Reason : ]

12/3/2013 3:49:57 PM

I said some level of apathy. We still need fans to pay the buckz

[Edited on December 3, 2013 at 3:51 PM. Reason : ^ JesusTFChrist]

12/3/2013 3:50:23 PM

haha, i'm not promoting apathy. people are upset over our worst conference record in the entire history of the universe, and i understand that. i'll continue to support the team, no matter how shitty they are, but i gotta admit, i really lost interest this last season. I was losing interest before the UNC game, and that was the final blow. i really hope we see some improvement next year, even if it's only a little.

12/3/2013 3:51:14 PM

You are, you have terrible reading comprehension. First you talk about clearly talking about the 2007 season when you were talking about 2013. So you can't even keep your arguments straight.

Quote :

"You're the one who expected Tom O'Brien to have three consecutive NFL QB's come through our school."

Where did I say this? I said nothing about NFL QBs. Just top/solid QBs. Nothing is ridiculous about that at all.

Quote :

"You're the one who thinks that Daniel Evans was somehow more talented than Brandon Mitchell."

Again, where did I even come close to saying this? All I said was one was a WR, one was a QB. In fact you said

Quote :

"Daniel Evans. More talented than Brandon Mitchell."

Quote :

"You're the one who thinks that it is apparently impossible to win without a QB programmed to run a coach's specific system."

Again I never said impossible. It's just a huge mountain to overcome. Shit, even people like Steve Logan say this was a huge challenge.

Quote :

"Yes. I'm the idiot."

You really are.

[Edited on December 3, 2013 at 4:04 PM. Reason : ]

12/3/2013 3:54:58 PM

Quote :

"Yes. I'm the idiot."

You really are.

[Edited on December 3, 2013 at 4:00 PM. Reason : ]

12/3/2013 3:59:48 PM

Quote :

" First you talk about clearly talking about the 2007 season when you were talking about 2013"

Let me break this down for you. I was speculating on whether or not Tom O'Brien would have taken this years team bowling or not. I guessed that he wouldn't. But I also cited the precedent of 2007 to demonstrate that he'd at least get a few conference wins, since he's done it before with little talent at QB.


That's why I don't buy the "we had no QB" argument. Yeah, that might prevent you from a winning season, but it shouldn't automatically assure a win-less season in conference play. It's a cop-out.

12/3/2013 4:04:25 PM

Quote :

"Tom O'Brien would have taken this years team bowling or not"

Yes and my point was the players on this years team signed up to play for TOB. When TOB took over a locker room of someone else's players - he didn't make a bowl.

12/3/2013 4:07:04 PM

Quote :

"That's why I don't buy the "we had no QB" argument. Yeah, that might prevent you from a winning season, but it shouldn't automatically assure a win-less season in conference play. It's a cop-out."

I agree it's not the sole reason for a winless season. But it's a huge reason.

12/3/2013 4:07:57 PM

Quote :

"Yes. I'm the idiot."

You really are.

12/3/2013 4:09:47 PM

Yea, let's completely stop caring until we start winning again.

Are we UNC fans?

12/3/2013 4:13:17 PM

Quote :

"When TOB took over a locker room of someone else's players - he didn't make a bowl."

Did he win a conference game?

12/3/2013 4:16:43 PM

Quote :

"I agree it's not the sole reason for a winless season. But it's a huge reason."

And going winless, even with that excuse, is going to raise skepticism. That's not that radical of an idea. If he won one or two games, then you could say, "growing pains."

Going 0-fer raises eyebrows. And understandably so.

12/3/2013 4:20:44 PM