page something or anothar

[Edited on November 7, 2011 at 5:46 PM. Reason : .]

11/7/2011 5:45:24 PM

I watched that video a number of times and nowhere do I see her intentionally pushed in the video. It appears to me the whole crowd moves as one guy yells and that may have caused her to lose footing. Either that or her escorts lost their grip and she fell. There is in officer right there and he doesn't seem to be too quick in arresting anyone at that moment. The evidence of intent is definitely lacking here. It seems like an unfortunate accident in a chaotic and heated moment.

11/7/2011 5:46:49 PM

11/7/2011 5:47:30 PM

Rumor has it this is a Political cartoon by Orr in 1932

11/7/2011 5:48:30 PM

Quote :

"By arresting the OWS occupiers.. they are violating the Constitutional right to assemble."

Let's use our 2nd amendment rights to keep our 1st amendment rights.

11/7/2011 5:50:26 PM

^ a million

Absolutely. Practically every other country has laws limiting the work week, and setting mandatory vacation time, sick leave, lunch breaks, etc.

Productivity per hour has increased drastically since the 1940s, and yet workers are still working more hours. Upper management gets the benefits of that productivity, and the worker sees not of it. Not to mention the stresses on families, effects on health, etc.

If you need more man-hours, hire someone else. Don't pressure the guy getting paid for 40 hours a week into working 60 out of fear of losing his job.

I know we're all about the pursuit of the almighty dollar, but there are other important things out there and if you work 40-48 hours a week you should be compensated with at least enough not to be in poverty, imo

EDIT 2: Naturally there would need to be exemptions. If you're a small-business owner trying to get something off the ground, obviously you might need to be able to put in more time. I'm sure there are others. I'm just talking rank-and-file employees.

[Edited on November 7, 2011 at 5:57 PM. Reason : ]

11/7/2011 5:52:34 PM

Quote :

"the worker sees not of it"

Bullshit. Do you not see how expanding GPD benefits us all?

11/7/2011 5:55:52 PM

Quote :

"Let's use our 2nd amendment rights to keep our 1st amendment rights."

lol

11/7/2011 5:58:28 PM

You really think that would have a negative effect on GDP? Especially if you look at GDP per capita I think you'd see positive trends. France's has been doing fairly well since 2000, and their per capita GDP is higher than ours. If anything it should bring down unemployment while maintaining productivity.

[Edited on November 7, 2011 at 6:14 PM. Reason : It's not really a debate if you don't actually state your own reasoning btw]

11/7/2011 6:05:06 PM

I don't buy it, but at least that's a difference in assumptions made, not a "Fuck it, we'll just be mediocre, just as long as we don't have to work very hard."

11/7/2011 6:15:12 PM

There's no indication that number of hours worked correlates to productivity anyway. I don't know why you think that we'd be any more mediocre than we already are, except for your own assumptions.

11/7/2011 6:22:56 PM

http://youtu.be/pTnOwaTRDog

11/7/2011 8:57:23 PM

Quote :

"among 65 industrial nations, the more unequal ones experience slower growth on average. Likewise, individual countries grow more rapidly in periods when incomes are more equal, and slow down when incomes are skewed."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/opinion/sunday/kristof-americas-primal-scream.html

11/7/2011 11:39:49 PM

11/8/2011 12:45:33 AM

They were probably smokers anyway.

11/8/2011 12:49:23 AM

cold blooded

11/8/2011 12:52:27 AM

why didn't they have health insurance?

11/8/2011 1:01:26 AM

because they couldn't even afford their fucking rent?

11/8/2011 1:08:42 AM

if they worked harder, they wouldn't have gotten cancer.

11/8/2011 1:13:08 AM

they should have budgeted for cancer

or diversified their income and put it to work in mutual funds, stocks, bonds, and re-packedged mortgages that were actually sold off as bad debt

my bad

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 1:15 AM. Reason : .]

11/8/2011 1:15:27 AM

Quote :

"why didn't they have health insurance?"

Maybe a pre-existing condition? Unemployed. Doesn't matter. Fuck Christianity! Long live Darwinism! ...except for that evolution bullshit.

11/8/2011 1:24:27 AM

Why did wall street give his friends cancer?

11/8/2011 2:16:48 AM

He got his their/they'res right

11/8/2011 2:24:25 AM

RIP to his friends but there are government programs that cover long term illnesses for low income singles, Often times called County Medical Services. "A program that funds medical care for uninsured indigent adult county residents. "

11/8/2011 2:41:50 AM

Quote :

"because they couldn't even afford their fucking rent? "

Im calling BS on the guys poster. If they had so little money then they would obviously have qualified for Medicaid.

11/8/2011 8:57:37 AM

Quote :

""the worker sees not of it" Bullshit. Do you not see how expanding GPD benefits us all?"

most hilarious misunderstanding of accounting ever.

11/8/2011 9:19:02 AM

nobody deserves to have to pay their rent or medical bills in america

11/8/2011 9:20:21 AM

Quote :

"RIP to his friends but there are government programs that cover long term illnesses for low income singles, Often times called County Medical Services. "A program that funds medical care for uninsured indigent adult county residents. " "

Do these programs cover chemo?

11/8/2011 9:23:28 AM

hey one time i had to pay $80 at the eye doctor. do i need to stand outside and ask for some corporations to send me some rent payments now?

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 9:28 AM. Reason : ,]

11/8/2011 9:25:18 AM

Quote :

"Im calling BS on the guys poster. If they had so little money then they would obviously have qualified for Medicaid."

11/8/2011 9:26:04 AM

For all we know they were on Medicaid and had to choose between copays for cancer treatment and rent. I can't imagine Medicaid covers 100% of all your treatment costs for something like cancer.

11/8/2011 9:28:11 AM

Quote :

"For all we know"

Quote :

"I can't imagine"

Quote :

"something like cancer"

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 9:29 AM. Reason : ,]

11/8/2011 9:29:01 AM

hmm, well the internet is proving fairly useless in trying to find an answer to this. So far all I've found is this.

Quote :

"Medicaid is subject to your state cancer coverage laws and the laws governing clinical trials. Well, what this means is that, if your state covers "off-label" use of cancer drugs and/or clinical trials, you are covered as a Medicaid cancer patient. Generally, the Medicaid program is less problematic in terms of coverage than many other insurance plans. However, some private physicians will not provide chemotherapy in their offices to patients with Medicaid as primary or secondary insurance because of the low payment allowances. In most areas, they are under no obligation to treat Medicaid patients at all."

11/8/2011 9:31:49 AM

it's wrong that education inflation continues to outpace general inflation, making it harder and harder each year for young americans to afford the education they need to compete in the job marketplace

this needs to be fixed but i don't know how

11/8/2011 10:30:05 AM

well when the govt guarantees the money year in and year out without question i wonder why.. hmmm

11/8/2011 1:32:26 PM

Quote :

"it's wrong that education inflation continues to outpace general inflation, making it harder and harder each year for young americans to afford the education they need to compete in the job marketplace"

Anecdotal I'm sure, but I'm pretty sure it has more than doubled in the 10 years since I left NCSU. I want to say tuition was $1350-$1750 per semester when I was in school and now it is ~$3250 according to a quick google search.

A Honda Accord hasn't doubled in price.
A house hasn't doubled in price (in most areas).
Food hasn't doubled in price.
Yet, education has doubled in price while the value of that education has arguably gone downhill dramatically. I'm not sure why either. The infrastructure was already there. Neither professor salaries nor administration salaries have doubled. Why does NCSU need twice as much from each in state student in 2011 than they needed in 2001? Does it have to do with the state subsidies in some way?

11/8/2011 3:20:23 PM

the student loans are backed and guaranteed by the govt

they can do whatever they want to the price and people will come.

11/8/2011 3:23:04 PM

Could you make a point with that or are you leaving it intentionally vague because there isn't one?
Are state schools supposed to be for profit entities now?

11/8/2011 3:24:14 PM

It's a public university and there have been massive cuts to fund education?

11/8/2011 3:25:47 PM

answer this question. exactly who controls the price of college at ncsu? what is the budget of ncsu. what was it 10 years ago?

now ask 'why' have they raised tuition. now why would students pay $3500 a semester compared to approx $2000 just 10 years ago. the answer is the students don't care. they will pay whatever because there is a government backed student loan in place from a bank for them not to worry about for several years. these schools are spending assloads more because they know they'll have 35k students minimum per year that will pay them in loans.

thats why they changed the price of tuition.

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 3:31 PM. Reason : ,]

11/8/2011 3:30:51 PM

Quote :

"It's a public university and there have been massive cuts to fund education?"

That's kind of what I was getting at with the part about state subsidies. I really would like to find a balance sheet that shows income versus expenditures for each period when I get the chance.

Quote :

"now ask 'why' have they raised tuition. now why would students pay $3500 a semester compared to approx $2000 just 10 years ago. the answer is the students don't care. they will pay whatever because there is a government backed student loan in place from a bank for them not to worry about for several years. these schools are spending assloads more because they know they'll have 35k students minimum per year that will pay them in loans. thats why they changed the price of tuition."

Careful there...You almost admitted there is a problem in our society other than poor people being lazy.

11/8/2011 3:44:02 PM

tuition jumped by 750 just this past year on top of the 500ish jump the year before. Mostly due to budget cuts from the state, considering the state figured the lotto would help supplement education money by now, which it hasn't. Plus the dick governor/state gov can't balance a spreadsheet if their life depended on it and they promised more money to universities when they really didn't have it. Plus they horded the money for a long time before the universities even saw one cent.

Not to mention less money coming in from corporations/businesses and donations. At least with ncsu, we are lucky since we still get a good chunk of change from businesses and federal grant money for research (RTP and Centennial campus for this).

Also, the tuition now includes health insurance, which you can't opt out initially. You have to go through the steps of saying you don't need it because you have another health insurance and you get a rebate (between 300-400 bucks).

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 3:49 PM. Reason : ]

11/8/2011 3:48:26 PM

^^ well the students should care somewhat. now they are gonna take out 2x the loans and better have a way to pay them back. otherwise it's just a mini housing market collapse but instead of home loans its school loans.

11/8/2011 3:57:29 PM

What he is saying that if student loans weren't so easy to get and widely available then colleges would have to charge what people can afford to pay.

Since they are allowed to charge whatever they want because of our corrupt student loan system they are charging the ever living dogshit out of students. Students are brainwashed by the "Must go to college if i ever want to get a job" philosophy out there so they rack up $50,000 in loans because they have no conception of how much money that is and they believe they'll immediately make $100k if they have one of these worthless degrees.

What they dont understand is that they will be paying nearly 100% of their disposable income after college against these student loans that can never be discharged by bankruptcy. And if they ever are lucky enough to make $100k+ a bunch of lazy mf'ers that frequent this message board as well as others will be crying for them to pay more than the $30k they are already paying in taxes.

11/8/2011 4:00:07 PM

When's Bloomberg going to come to his senses and kick these people out?

11/8/2011 4:30:38 PM

Quote :

"Anecdotal I'm sure, but I'm pretty sure it has more than doubled in the 10 years since I left NCSU. I want to say tuition was $1350-$1750 per semester when I was in school and now it is ~$3250 according to a quick google search. A Honda Accord hasn't doubled in price. A house hasn't doubled in price (in most areas). Food hasn't doubled in price. Yet, education has doubled in price while the value of that education has arguably gone downhill dramatically. I'm not sure why either. The infrastructure was already there. Neither professor salaries nor administration salaries have doubled. Why does NCSU need twice as much from each in state student in 2011 than they needed in 2001? Does it have to do with the state subsidies in some way?"

Out of state tuition is dramatically more representative of the cost of education at a public university. And yes, I do believe this has much to do with the state subsidies. Although the real system isn't this transparent, let's say this:

Cost of delivering the education is/was $10k per semester.

$10k - 8.5k = $1.5k a decade ago
$10k - 6.8k = 3.2k now

That's really a 20% drop in the state funding chunk. If you look at tuition you can see a quick and dramatic explosion in price, but that's because you're only looking at the tip of the iceberg. When the entire ice berg starts moving, then things will get real bad.

And there's no reason to say that current state support of our universities is sustainable in the first place. State government budgets are exploding all over over the place, because of political irresponsibility that, as Bill Gates puts it, "would make Enron blush".

I think that so many decades ago we had a sustainable system with considerable social support. These are the systems that we're still living with (like S.S., national debt, education) but politicians have watched with indifference as conditions changed and they because laughably unsustainable. Now there has to be a re-balancing, and the entire existence of the modern Republican party is a bid by the powerful to make that work in their favor.

11/8/2011 4:46:54 PM

Quote :

"When's Bloomberg going to come to his senses and kick these people out?"

it's too late for that

he knows what's up

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 4:47 PM. Reason : e]

11/8/2011 4:47:02 PM

Quote :

"Do these programs cover chemo?"

Yes it would fall under the long term illness. so its covered.

Plus the worst that would happen to someone is they get treatment, can't pay and it would damage their credit for up to 7 years. But they'd still get help.

11/8/2011 6:32:59 PM

Quote :

"What he is saying that if student loans weren't so easy to get and widely available then colleges would have to charge what people can afford to pay. Since they are allowed to charge whatever they want because of our corrupt student loan system they are charging the ever living dogshit out of students. Students are brainwashed by the "Must go to college if i ever want to get a job" philosophy out there so they rack up $50,000 in loans because they have no conception of how much money that is and they believe they'll immediately make $100k if they have one of these worthless degrees. What they dont understand is that they will be paying nearly 100% of their disposable income after college against these student loans that can never be discharged by bankruptcy. And if they ever are lucky enough to make $100k+ a bunch of lazy mf'ers that frequent this message board as well as others will be crying for them to pay more than the $30k they are already paying in taxes."

this might be the clearest post in this entire thread.

11/8/2011 10:42:03 PM

Quote :

"And if they ever are lucky enough to make $100k+ a bunch of lazy mf'ers that frequent this message board as well as others will be crying for them to pay more than the $30k they are already paying in taxes[quote]"

I like that you admit making $100k per year even with a degree is just a matter of luck.

11/8/2011 11:08:59 PM