id love to see draft in this country. people would be far less war happy when they know they gotta go themselves.

4/22/2004 1:28:23 PM

salisburyboy sucks his own cock

4/22/2004 2:10:36 PM

im looking forward to the break from school

P.S.

pussies

4/23/2004 7:13:28 PM

^so why don't you defer your education, and enlist?

ps, hypocrite

[Edited on April 24, 2004 at 1:57 PM. Reason : ps]

4/24/2004 1:56:42 PM

Ha, I turn 26 in 2 weeks... If they draft as early as June 15 (as some indicate) of next year then I'll be completely inelegible for it.


[kidding]Hey, draft them youngens. They'll leave their girlfriends behind and ALL YOUR WOMEN ARE BELONG TO ME![/kidding]

[Edited on April 27, 2004 at 12:31 AM. Reason : Move Zig Bush for great justice]

4/27/2004 12:28:13 AM

an interesting article on the subject

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/04/opinion/04BROY.html?ex=1084668151&ei=1&en=407ffe12b58307ff

5/4/2004 8:59:58 AM

Though I could be wrong I don't think that this will ever pass in the first place. We already have enough people in our military and as someone said earlier it would just be weakening our military. The draft isn't really necessary right now and should only be made mandatory when necessity requires it (i.e. there isn't enough able bodied people people in the military anymore etc.)

5/4/2004 9:34:02 AM

Because I have a S Korean fiance, can the government promise me I would never have to hurt/kill Koreans? Being a computer science major, can they promise that they'll never use my training programs in order to do same? Will they "investigate" me and my entire family because I will marry Korean girl? Would we be able to move to Korea some day like we have already decided one day to do, after working on computer systems for the government?

The problem is the last choice you make is to enlist, from what I understand. Give you untested shots to "protect" you that really end up hurting you. What was those shots? Agent Orange was more well known (not medicine, but same idea). Anyways, there seems to be a feeling of giving up control that people object to. I'm sure that after sep 11, anyone here would risk their life when terrorists wanted to take over plane, sinse they would know the possible intent.

They threw around the idea of draft about a week and a half ago, maybe more, on CNN.

Sejeong (my fiance) has told me horrible stories she has heard about people in the military of S Korea. Every man in South Korea has to serve two years minimum, so they get the worst kind of people there. They have to do this because they are technically still at war (resolution never signed) with N Korea and also they have to be ready in case that nut decides to be stupid. Beatings, rapes, etc, are not unheard of in S Korean military. When people volunteer, they are mostly good people in my mind.

5/4/2004 2:46:38 PM

If I'm drafted and you're in the US military, it may be wise to kill me straightaway when the gunfire starts because i'm gonna do everything I can to sabatoge my captors - it is my right and obligation to do so as a free man.

On the other hand, if our borders are attacked, I will likely be the first in line to volunteer for military service to defend this nation.

[Edited on May 4, 2004 at 3:29 PM. Reason : s]

5/4/2004 3:28:32 PM

^ I hope you like levinworth if you end up doing that.

5/4/2004 9:17:43 PM

It sounds like the best way for me to avoid burning in the desert is to JOIN THE NAVY before I getted drafted. Dad used that strategy to spend his time in Pearl Harbor during Nam.

5/4/2004 10:37:36 PM

get some soap on a rope first.

5/4/2004 10:43:10 PM

While the draft isn't a serious possibility yet, the chances of it coming back have increased greatly.

All of you who dismiss it as "nah, political suicide" don't understand the global situation at the moment.

The US Military can't engage in any other conflicts. That means, if the Balkans, eastern Asia, Africa, South America, or any global hot spot were to escalate, we would be in no position to intervene.

Furthermore, if the Iraqi situation turns for the worse, and moderate resistance errupts into heavy resistance or outright rebellion, then again, the depleted manpower pools of the Army would need to be filled.

Interestingly enough, the Army is well equiped to win any war, but very illprepared to police occupied territory.

This is why not having a UN mandate to go into Iraq was critically, because we will not get any relief from other countries.

5/5/2004 8:01:01 PM

If they draft me, I will sabotage everything I can. I will not work for assholes like that.

5/5/2004 8:20:26 PM

Watching MSNBC's Countdown earlier and the big O mentioned this. he said that the chairman of the Selective Service, perhaps former chair-the one who just left, sent a memo to the Pentagon saying that the US should considering opening up the draft
a. to women 18-25
b. extend males age group from 25 to 34.
c....i missed that b/c of the 34 thing.

so, looks like all of us here would be going off to fight daddy's war. and not just the youngins either.

5/5/2004 9:22:51 PM

bullshit. i'll never fight a politician's war.

i'd rather sit in prison for life. Better to be a prisoner with a clear conscience than a prisoner with no principles and likely dead.

5/5/2004 10:13:41 PM

I'd rather become a terrorist than go to prison for refusing to fight bush's war.

5/5/2004 10:19:37 PM

That'd be cool if women were to be finally included in the draft.

What's not cool tho is drafting just so we can police the world better. IMHO, the war on terror is bullshit and we shouldnt be involved in anything that the UN isn't ready to back.

5/5/2004 10:41:49 PM

Women are not usually good for war because they more often have the good sense not to want to kill people.

5/5/2004 11:05:49 PM

the UN isn't ready to back ANYTHING you dumbass.

have you forgotten how the UN sat on their hands while millions of Rwandans were slaughtered with machetes???

Yeah sure, because the self-serving UN diplomats do not want to stop genocide, we should not want to stop it either eheheheheeheheheeh - now lets go sip some more coffee and wank to our intellects some more!!!!!1

5/5/2004 11:08:10 PM

^I second that.

5/5/2004 11:10:40 PM

excuse me....back or at least give their blessing to. No, the UN won't usually be the first to make a decision, but then it's not really a decision making council. It's more of a support group :/

Also, after 10 years, I think the US is not as strong as it used to be and the UN is probly a lil stronger.

5/6/2004 12:08:23 AM

Quote :

"the UN... its more of a support group"

wtf idiot.

[Edited on May 6, 2004 at 12:19 AM. Reason : s]

5/6/2004 12:19:24 AM

god damn democrats

5/6/2004 12:20:25 AM

"Hi, my name is Syria and I like to torture my own citizens"

"HI, WELCOME TO THE GROUP SYRIA"

"Hi, my name is Egypt and I often imprison and execute people for being homosexual"

"HI, WELCOME TO THE GROUP EGYPT"

"Hi, my name is Saudi Arabia and I turn a blind eye to islamic terrorists because I'm afraid of being deposed"

"HI, WELCOME TO THE GROUP SAUDI ARABIA"

etc. etc. etc. wank wank wank.

5/6/2004 8:50:37 AM

Quote :

""Hi, my name is Egypt and I often imprison and execute people for being homosexual""

wait, are you saying that is wrong?

5/6/2004 3:17:48 PM

congress.org site also reports that a draft may be initiated in Spring of 2005:

source: http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&content_dir=ua_congressorg

Quote :

"There is pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills: S 89 and HR 163) which will time the program's initiation so the draft can begin at early as Spring 2005 -- just after the 2004 presidential election. "

[Edited on May 29, 2004 at 11:46 AM. Reason : ..]

5/29/2004 11:33:09 AM

Quote :

"It is presented on an unofficial website (Congress.Org) that claims to have no affiliation with the government. Note the address is not a .GOV extension, but .ORG instead. According to the site's "About" page, "Congress.org is a service of Capitol Advantage, a private, non-partisan company that specializes in facilitating civic participation.""

[Edited on May 29, 2004 at 12:19 PM. Reason : .]

5/29/2004 12:19:19 PM

The way I see things, war has stopped being about how many poor guys you can get to run around with a rifle and die, and it's now more about "hey look, I can shoot you with missles from waaaaay over here!". Technology, not manpower. Whether that's good or bad, I dunno.

I see two reasons for boosting numbers in the military -- threat of invasion (ehm... no) or else someone wants us to occupy more places. I don't think we need to occupy more places.


Off-topic question. Does anyone know what sort of agreement we have with Germany regarding our military bases there? I know we've got quite a few (Rammstein, etc), and I'm sure they resulted from the Marshall Plan, but what I was wondering is how long do we get to keep them, or do we have them indefinitely?

5/29/2004 3:48:50 PM

AFAIK the bases we have in European countries are there at the grace and request of the host country

5/29/2004 4:09:20 PM

a draft is political suicide. nobody is stupid enough to pass it....liberal or conservative.

5/29/2004 8:41:50 PM

Quote :

"boys and girls (age 18-26)"

wrong, sophie. men and women. don't try and politicize the discussion with your subjective rant. $20 says if anyone called you a "girl" when you were between 18 and 26, you would have had a fit and screamed some "sexist discrimination" crap.

p.s. it is "literally," not "litteraly".
p.p.s. if you aren't willing to give you life for this country, don't live in it. make room for the people who want to come here for honorable reasons

5/30/2004 12:04:01 AM

I still think that mercenaries and covert ops are the way to go. Most of the people I've known who've joined the military did so for slightly less than patriotic reasons, so why not just outsource? And... what's the point of having advanced technology and intelligence-gathering techniques if you're just going to throw warm bodies with M-16s at 'the enemy?' Why is it that the military still requires so many people to keep it going when streamlining operation is all the rage in every other sector? Why draft people who have other obligations and/or are unwilling to fight pointless wars when there are other ways to make things work?

Thank God for the conscientious objector clause... and the fact that I highly doubt they're going to get around to adding women to the draft. If they extend the pool of people to be drafted, who would be left to run industry and continue American society?

*sigh*

5/31/2004 10:22:02 PM

article in USA Today discusses the possibility of a draft...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-06-01-military-draft_x.htm

[Edited on June 2, 2004 at 6:27 PM. Reason : ..]

6/2/2004 6:24:31 PM

no they discuss how it is not a possibility

Quote :

" "I don't know anyone in the executive branch of the government who believes it would be appropriate or necessary," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said again recently. "

[Edited on June 2, 2004 at 6:29 PM. Reason : u]

6/2/2004 6:28:57 PM

unfortunately, dahak, we can't just nuke cities anymore to get rid of "insurgents." Use the technology where it can be used, but ya gotta use the warm bodies otherwise.

6/2/2004 6:30:16 PM

[old]

6/2/2004 7:45:27 PM

ahahahahaha^

6/2/2004 7:46:08 PM

salisbury, that article says the exact opposite of what you think it says.

You're a be-biggity-bitch.

6/2/2004 7:52:34 PM

star tribune of Minneapolis has article on the possibility of a draft...

http://www.infowars.com/print/ps/draft_rumored.htm

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1557/4844069.html

6/26/2004 10:56:40 AM

Newsmax reports a draft is being prepared:

Quote :

"U.S. Readies for Draft Dave Eberhart, NewsMax.com Friday, June 25, 2004 Despite denials that the U.S. plans to re-institute the draft, the Pentagon has stepped up preparations for a new Selective Service System that could allow for a full-blown draft by next year. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/24/104815.shtml"

[Edited on June 27, 2004 at 5:55 PM. Reason : ..]

6/27/2004 5:53:20 PM

i thought they can't take you out of college, or like if you were the youngest, some shit like that (i say think cause i'm not fully educated on draft rules....educate me plz )

either way, i'll be damned if I'm going to war

I'm takin my black ass to Canada

6/27/2004 6:51:14 PM

Salisburyboy needs to take a class in reading comprehension. Both of the articles he posted (the Minnesota one that's posted twice and the Newsmax one) indicate that that while a draft may be possible, it's by no means probable, and is based more on internet heresay and rumor than hard fact. Check these quotes out from the articles that you're citing.:

Quote :

"It should be noted that just prior to the Iraq war, support for the draft was at 27 percent. And, finally, a no-brainer: the poll also found that young people were least likely to support a draft. Second in the hit parade of reasons why an untrained manpower draft is unlikely at this time is Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. When he was a young congressman from Illinois, Rumsfeld introduced one of the first bills in Congress to abolish the draft. These days the still anti-draft Rumsfeld is careful not to suggest that draftees are by their nature second-class soldiers because they are coerced to serve. Having taken a hit for just that sentiment not long ago, the secretary now points to the more academic of his rationales – high turnover and a complicated deferment system that a draft engenders. Rumsfeld’s most recent pronouncement on the subject: “I don’t know anyone in the Executive Branch who thinks it’s appropriate or necessary to reinstitute the draft.” Third reason: The Army – albeit experiencing serious shortfalls of military policemen, linguists, interrogators, civil affairs specialists and medics – has ready access to a handy pool of manpower, the Individual Ready Reserve, the inactive component of the military that consists of vets who have completed their enlistment contracts but still have time remaining on a total 8-year commitment. As many as 6,500 could be recalled to active duty. Fourth: Stopgap measures by the DoD are working to keep the outposts manned. “Stop loss” and “stop move” orders are in effect. The first bar members of the military from retiring or resigning. The second extends overseas assignment involuntarily – as was the case with the 20,000 troops kept overtime in Iraq. Fifth: Troop shortages related to the war in Iraq and other deployments are being eased by turning over to civilians jobs now done by members of the armed forces. Rumsfeld hopes to reassign to civilian employees jobs now performed by no less than 300,000 uniformed men and women. Sixth: Trust that Congress will bail the armed forces out in time. A cadre of both Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill are pushing to permanently increase the size of the Armed Forces by at least 30,000. "

From the Newsmax article

From the Minneapolis article:

Quote :

"Despite shaky evidence -- and denials by top officials -- Mittelstaedt and many other young people in Minnesota and across the nation are convinced that a draft is secretly in the works."

Quote :

"Officials are finding the rumors difficult to quash. Rep. John Kline, R-Minn., called the draft worries "a scare tactic." Sen. Norm Coleman, R-Minn., attributes them to people "who like to stir up fear and angst." The Selective Service System has received so many calls and e-mails that the agency posted a prominent notice on its Web site denying any draft preparations. "It's just not going to happen," said Dan Amon, an agency spokesman. "There's no interest whatsoever in Congress." Amon said the agency began receiving e-mails in November, when a Defense Department Web page advertised openings on the draft board -- a group of 11,000 civilians nationwide who would hear petitions for deferments during a draft. Although the agency has maintained the board since 1980, Amon said, several watchdog groups took the posting as a sign that it was quietly mobilizing for a draft. "There's nothing unusual about a call for new board members," Amon said. "We're always looking for volunteers." "

Quote :

"The warnings contain questionable assertions. For example, they claim that the Selective Service System received an additional $28 million from Congress in fiscal 2004, when there was no funding increase. They also claim that the White House is pushing to get the bills through, when in fact the administration opposes a draft. "

6/27/2004 7:12:06 PM

Quote :

"Also, after 10 years, I think the US is not as strong as it used to be and the UN is probly a lil stronger."

Now what is your reasoning behind saying that the US is weaker and the UN is stronger?

6/27/2004 7:29:12 PM

a draft wont work anymore, the weapons and systems we use to fight are a hell of alot more complicated then they were 50 years ago. The only time you would ever see a draft is when this country was in imminent danger, or a significant portion of the world was (think russia and china freak out and start trying to take over asia and europe.

6/28/2004 5:33:35 AM

Quote :

"if you aren't willing to give you life for this country, don't live in it. make room for the people who want to come here for honorable reasons"

When the time comes and this nation gets into some shit so deep that we start getting invasion on our home turf, I would hope that I have enough honor, courage, and dignity to stand my ground and defend America. HOWEVER, I do not think that this is that moment. America is not in such iminent danger. There are people who would kill all Americans if they had the power, but they do not, and they mostly feel that way because we won't get the fuck out of their business. If we leave, they'll still hate America and be jealous of our prosperity or whatever, but it would make their day and as long as we don't come back and intervene they couldn't give a flying rat's ass if we continue to use up oxygen or not.

I don't care who's in charge, I will not be another general issue pawn in some political war, I will not take the chance that I may either die or be maimed the rest of my life just so some asshole in Washington DC gets some kind of personal gain, and I will not fight and become another military statistic unless I want to take that risk. I fight for nobody except the people I care about, and I don't care about Congress or the President, I care about my family, my friends, my home and my property, my liberty, and my freedom to choose to live my life how I want to live it. Not bowing down before teh government and kissing it's ass is not treason, and refusing to mindlessly submit to it's stupid wars is not cowardice.

On a final note, a country is not defined by it's government or system of rule, it is defined by the group of people who reside within it's borders. I do not serve the government, if anything I serve the people.

6/28/2004 8:48:07 AM

Quote :

"p.p.s. if you aren't willing to give you life for this country, don't live in it. make room for the people who want to come here for honorable reasons"

Funny that nobody apparently has that option.

6/28/2004 12:30:42 PM

Quote :

"id love to see draft in this country. people would be far less war happy when they know they gotta go themselves."

utterly ridiculous. THE PEOPLE WHO FIGHT THE WARS are the ones who are drafted. The will of the people has rarely ever changed a government's position on whether it wants a war. Great, so being drafted would make alot of people more anti-war... but what the hell good would that do? You don't see us leaving Iraq at the behest of the majority of the american people, do you?

6/28/2004 1:02:04 PM

Quote :

"You don't see us leaving Iraq at the behest of the majority of the american people, do you? "

Because whether or not you agree with the war, leaving Iraq completely would not be helpful to the situation. Security is necessary there til they get off their feet.

And I haven't seen recent polls, but do a majority of Americans really believe we should leave right now? My guess is that statement isn't true.

[Edited on June 28, 2004 at 1:07 PM. Reason : .]

6/28/2004 1:06:22 PM

i don't know if it is, but it was meant to make a point. The government does not go to war based on what the people want, at least not initially. Sometimes, like in vietnam, the people can finally get so angry after so many thousands die that the government has no choice but to listen, but by then so many have died that it can hardly be considered as the will of the people in a normal sense.

what i'm trying to point out is that in saying "a draft would be good because it would mean less wars" is absolutely awful, because it's untrue AND could allow our government more ammo if it were to ever actually try to reinstate a draft

6/28/2004 1:09:50 PM