You can't go by dramatized narratives of zombie attacks, man. Virus-induced zombification results in shambling husks lacking sentience and intelligence. The virus itself being unintelligent and arguably not even an organism, the sensible conclusion is that it acts as a catalyst and a sort of quick-fix glue for kickstarting a dead organism's respiratory and metabolic processes. Trust me on this!

My figure of months wasted is taking into account the fact that you're working from an entrenched position. Over time, unmanned public works will fail. If you've been entrenched that long, the work you put into building workarounds to problems lack like of electricity, running water, and gas will all be wasted because the problem of the zombies themselves could've been solved months ago had you taken a more proactive approach to the situation.

[Edited on April 16, 2005 at 2:31 PM. Reason : Peace, we outta here.]

4/16/2005 2:29:00 PM

To kickstart the processes the virus would certainly have to kickstart the lower functions of the brain, making it conceivable that the instincts housed in the same regions would also be activated in full. Yes, they are not sentient, and no, they aren't particularly bright, but just as you can't get a shark or a bear to leave you alone by throwing something off to the side, you won't be able to do the same with zombies.

And nothing you've said supports in any way that all these virus zombies are shamblers rather than sprinters. In fact, I fail to see how it allows for anything but sprinters -- once it has given back movement and a basic drive to attack people, there is no restraint such as pain or fatigue to limit the speed and mobility of the infected person.

But even disregarding all these arguments, your advice is simply too optimistic -- if you're wrong and the zombies are fast and nasty, then everyone who listens to you gets zombified. If I'm wrong and they're retardedly slow, then everyone who listens to me wastes a few hours boarding up windows.

Quote :

"If you've been entrenched that long, the work you put into building workarounds to problems lack like of electricity, running water, and gas will all be wasted because the problem of the zombies themselves could've been solved months ago had you taken a more proactive approach to the situation."

The flaws here--

1) There isn't really gonna be a situation where the zombies "could've been solved months ago," because zombies simply don't live for months. After the outbreak, they have at most a couple of months before they starve.
2) There isn't a damn proactive approach in most zombie situations. Rarely is there going to be some central thing that, having been destroyed, will result in the end of the zombie problem. All you'd be able to do is drive around and kill all the zombies one by one or en masse with explosives and the like; either way, a futile effort -- there's too many -- and probably a fatal effort.

[Edited on April 16, 2005 at 2:38 PM. Reason : ]

4/16/2005 2:35:24 PM

Hey, I agreed with you that your first priority is personal security.

As for why they wouldn't be capable of running: By all accounts, the virus must "incubate" within a host for a while before the corpse is animate again (giving the virus time to reproduce itself in the dying cells and thus propagate until such time as it could restart the body's automonous processes). Rigor mortis and brain death, man. The muscles would be stiff and deformed by then, and the number of brain cells that die off in that time would reduce the efficacy of the body's autonomous motor control. Ergo shamblers.

As for their instincts and why bears and sharks don't get distracted, bears and sharks are running around using a lot more than just their brain stems. Look at Terri Schiavo. Her body was doing all the normal respiratory shit, but she wasn't sentient at all...though her eyes would reflexively track objects when they were first introduced in her field of vision. I'm just going by empirical observation here.

As far as zombies not living very long, yeah, the individuals won't, but it's likely that the cause of the zombies WILL and will continue to produce MORE zombies. Gotta attack the problem at the root. Zombies are just the symptom, not the disease. See, your defensive tactics are just fine for a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE, wherein nearly the whole population is turned, infrastructures collapse, and no evidence of a cause is apparent, but that kind of shit isn't something you're gonna recover from anyway. I'm talking real world terms here.

[Edited on April 16, 2005 at 2:44 PM. Reason : ///]

4/16/2005 2:40:50 PM

Quote :

"Rigor mortis and brain death, man. The muscles would be stiff and deformed by then, and the number of brain cells that die off in that time would reduce the efficacy of the body's autonomous motor control. Ergo shamblers."

A valid point. The reanimated dead would be shamblers, then. But what of living people who are attacked, bitten, or otherwise infected? Everything I've heard leads me to believe that the infection happens fairly quickly in these cases -- no time for rigor mortis to set in.

Quote :

"As for their instincts and why bears and sharks don't get distracted, bears and sharks are running around using a lot more than just their brain stems."

Sharks don't have significantly more than a brain stem to begin with, and Terri Schiavo couldn't move, let alone attack people. So we know zombies are going to have more going on than she did.

Quote :

"As far as zombies not living very long, yeah, the individuals won't, but it's likely that the cause of the zombies WILL and will continue to produce MORE zombies. Gotta attack the problem at the root. Zombies are just the symptom, not the disease."

The zombies themselves are likely to be the biggest threat after they arise, so you'd still do well to wait them out.

Further, in the virus zombie case, you're not going to be able to take out the source -- such a radically new virus is not going to be an easy one to stop through medical science, and what are the odds that any of your survivors are doctors in the fields of viral pathology or epidemiology?

Next, let's say you find the "source" of the zombification and kill it. Unless this actually destroys all the zombies currently walking around, all you've done is prevent the zombification of survivors who, other than yourself and your small group, may not even exist. And if you knew about the source, you should've had the good g-ddamn sense not to get zombified by it anyway. So now you're out in the middle of the open, at the heart of the outbreak, surrounded by zombies, having accomplished something of negligible significance.

[Edited on April 16, 2005 at 2:47 PM. Reason : ]

4/16/2005 2:43:51 PM

The living people have to die before the virus can behave normally, since it relies on a fundamentally dead host. That's when the incubation period I outlined would begin, which would give the muscles of someone who was infected while living time to be affected by rigor mortis.

4/16/2005 2:45:54 PM

i think the next time i get any spare money i'm going to go buy me a shotgun

4/16/2005 2:47:05 PM

I am surprised nobody has mentioned an Army/Navy store. Those places usually have swords and knives, in addition to tons of MREs and survival equipment. But this is assuming that one is close enough to get to.

4/16/2005 2:47:16 PM

Do you just keep ignoring the part where I said your personal safety and security are your first priority? ;P

4/16/2005 2:49:52 PM

^Personal safey and security are best acheived through fortification most of the time.

Quote :

"The living people have to die before the virus can behave normally, since it relies on a fundamentally dead host."

I don't know about this. Viruses can be versatile -- ie, they may not require a dead host -- and besides, the incubation period is not necessarily long enough to include the destruction of muscle tissue. If memory serves, the second and more extreme rigor mortis takes about 24 hours to come into effect, and the virus could quite probably incubate within that period of time.

But ultimately I'm just not convinced that a dead host is necessary. The possibility exists that a dead host isn't even preferable.

[Edited on April 16, 2005 at 2:50 PM. Reason : ]

4/16/2005 2:50:15 PM

Then it's not so much a zombie virus as it is a cannibal madman virus. ;P

4/16/2005 2:50:58 PM

you're gonna be fucked anyway once all the zombies are dead anyway

what with all that rotting flesh sitting out in the sun, fouling the air with the stench of decay

that shit is how plagues start

4/16/2005 2:54:18 PM

^Once they're dead, move as fast as you can to a big, open area with few bodies -- the ocean or the countryside. By then travel will be basically safe. Then you play the waiting game again.

^^"Zombie" does not imply "dead."

The fundamental characteristics of a zombie:

1) Loss of sentience and higher brain function
2) Primary desire is the zombification/killing of other organisms, specifically humans

It is #2 that separates zombies from just being animalistic humans: all animals have goals other than killing or even eating. Zombies don't reproduce.

[Edited on April 16, 2005 at 2:55 PM. Reason : ]

4/16/2005 2:54:21 PM

ok ok ok you got me there

i mean after all i even said voodoo zombies were still alive

LOOK I THINK IT'S CLEAR THAT AN AMALGAM OF OUR VIEWPOINTS WOULD BE NECESSARY

FOR THE SURVIVAL AND SUCCESSFUL RE-ESTABLISHMENT OF THE WOLF WEB

IN THE WAKE OF A ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE

4/16/2005 2:55:47 PM

Clearly cooperation is of the utmost importance. The only thing that makes us better than the zombies is our collective intelligence, so we must wield it as a weapon in its own right.

Unfortunately the Wolf Web would probably be reduced to giant chalkboards for a while.

4/16/2005 2:57:41 PM

i could do without a lot of these wolfwebbers surviving

but then again i could also do without them trying to devour my precious sweetmeats

4/16/2005 2:58:21 PM

Have any of you ever read "I Am Legend" by Richard Matheson?

4/16/2005 3:00:03 PM

Can't say as I have.

4/16/2005 3:02:36 PM

Find you a copy, you'd get a kick out of it. It's about a dude who's, like, the last survivor of a disaster that turned everyone into zombie-like vampires.

4/16/2005 3:04:55 PM

I think that a really good location to stop by before going to Wal-Mart or Lowe's or something would be a firehouse. First of all, its gonna have lots of first aid equipment and basic easy to make foods. Second, those nice red axes with the picks on the opposite side of the blade would make extremely good melee weapons. Third, those thick and durable firefighter suits. This wouldn't help that much in the case of sprinters since you would need as much speed as possible, but with shamblers you would be good. I have never actually worn one of these suits before, but you can tell that they are thick and durable. If a zombie were to bite your arm or something while wearing one of these, odds are that you will be able to snatch it away before it is able to penetrate your skin. Last, but certainly not least, the fucking fire engine would be the perfect vehicle for movement towards different destinations. It is fast and most definitely would be able to clear out most abandoned cars and random zombies. It can hold a lot of people and a lot of supplies. It has that huge water cannon on the top of it that sure as hell will knock down any sprinters chasing you. Also, that the ladder on the top will allow for safe entry into tall buildings that haven't already been overrun.

4/16/2005 3:10:00 PM

http://www.dawnofthedeadmovie.net/

has info on zombies and tips to protect yourself

4/16/2005 3:14:14 PM

^^^Will do.

^^Holy shit, I forgot about that, that's a great idea. It might be a little light on the food for a really long haul, but that's easy enough to fix if you just stop on the way there and grab a bunch of stuff. Good going, Wraith. You get to be in the TWW survivor group.

4/16/2005 3:38:43 PM

OH SHIT CHECK THE NEWS IT'S HAPPENING NOW

4/16/2005 4:12:22 PM

Quote :

"Target and home depot only have one big flaw -- hard to defend. Yes, you have plywood to seal up the doors, but the fact remains that you've got a lot of doors and windows in the front to seal up -- if you arrive with plenty of time, you're set, but otherwise you're gonna be simultaneously battling the zombies and erecting your fortifications."

depends on the zombie I guess...

In DoD they didn't make it past their glass doors initially, but I believe they later fortified the doors. If this is the case... plenty of time!

4/16/2005 4:23:00 PM

Ah, but pay attention to the guy's line when they fail to break through the glass:

"Shatterproof, motherfuckers!"

Frankly, that was less-than-realistic -- such high-quality glass isn't likely to be found on big commercial doors designed for aesthetics more than security.

But like I said, if you've got an hour or two you could probably shore them up to an acceptable standard. Don't get me wrong, there's several areas in which the target/home depot combo would be ideal -- I'm not trashing the idea -- but you've got to think of all the angles.

The best idea might be to just stick to one of the stores initially -- probably the home depot, because that's the arsenal. Wait a while, perhaps a day or two, and the target should be empty -- it's not the type of place that zombies like to congregate in. Then you can either rush to board up the doors on that side, or just sneak over quietly to steal food and such as needed. At any rate, it's much more conceivable that you could fortify one set of doors early on than to get both before the enemy breaks through.

4/16/2005 4:40:58 PM

but seriously how much do shotguns cost and what is the legislation regarding it

4/16/2005 4:42:51 PM

There's hardly any rules about shotguns. You can buy them when you're 18 with no permits or anything.

Cost probably would be something in the range near $200.

Ask the guy at the store for high-end shells, you don't want no damn birdshot to face the zombie menace.

4/16/2005 4:46:04 PM

i need to find where to get those automated limb clippers that are like a chainsaw on a stick

i bet that would be pretty good melee defense

also, i need someone that can fly a helicopter to help me steal the WRAL copter if shit goes down

4/16/2005 5:00:22 PM

YES! If there's one thing 28 Days Later taught me, it's that you should always be within fifty feet of someone who knows how to fly a helicopter.

4/16/2005 5:08:24 PM

^^
Good idea but Fishel and Debora will prob have already takne off in it

4/16/2005 5:18:42 PM

i would probably get a bunch of guns and supplies and get to the top of a dorm and kill all of them

4/16/2005 5:20:22 PM

In the original Dawn of the Dead, the shopping mall was a perfect location because it contained both a grocery store and a gun store. Unfortunately for us, these days malls usually do not have places that sell guns. Supplies might not be a problem if you can get to the food court. Most of those places keep a shitload of stuff in the back. When I worked at Auntie Anne's we always had at least a dozen big bags of pretzel flour.

I don't know why everyone is suggesting Walmart/Home Depot/Lowes/Target. Just think. Those places are only one floor, contain only one large room, and have huge entryways made of cheap glass. The glass area is too large to barricade in a short amount of time. And once the zombies get in, you will have nowhere else to go. Constructing barriers or walls would take huge amounts of time because the inside of Walmart is basically open.

It makes much more sense to go somewhere that has hallways and rooms already in place. You'll be able to build a much better barricade in a much shorter amount of time because the bottleneck is already in place. All you have to do is plug it up.

4/16/2005 5:22:37 PM

office building and firestation are the two best ideas ive seen so far

4/16/2005 5:27:23 PM

Walmart would be ok but would only work if it was closed. You would have plenty of time to barricade the bldg. Also remember in DoD they did not initially start coming to the mall till later on.

4/16/2005 5:28:49 PM

Ok, okay, GrumpyGOP, who gets to be in the TWW survivor group, huh?

I'm thinking

GrumpyGOP
Smath74
Nerdchick
ME, superman
Froshkiller
MacGuyver seemed applicable

4/16/2005 8:33:28 PM

what the hell is the matter with you? we are going to need more woman that just nerdchick to repopulate the earth after the ordeal.

4/16/2005 8:35:18 PM

you guys feel free to stay, i'm gonna boat on out to an oil rig when this shit goes down

4/16/2005 8:37:09 PM

BEGONIAS, SAROSE, AND DJ LAUREN?

ESGARGS MIGHT BE GOOD, OR JUST DEADWEIGHT

4/16/2005 9:02:26 PM

^ deadweight

or

will kill the other guys so he can have all the women

4/16/2005 9:48:00 PM

AMEN

4/16/2005 9:54:40 PM

I don't know the TWW personalities well enough to make the final call, so I'll give experts in the field a list of what we need:

1) Two females, at least reasonably attractive and built in a fashion conducive to childbirth, per male. (ie, no stick thin chicks, and no manatees, either)
2) People with extensive knowledge in survival training.
3) Competent engineers from various fields (this shouldn't be too hard to do)
4) People with expertise in zombology and related fields.
5) People who are physically fit enough to fend off zombie attacks.

Ideally, you include as many of those traits in each person as is possible. I don't have any problem with Superman's list, but I think we should add Wraith -- his comment about the fire station indicates that he has the sort of mindset we need.

Unfortunately, that means we need at least eleven more women before we can even think about adding new males. If we ration ourselves competently, we could probably maintain a population of 30-40 people in a dorm for the requisite timespan. This would strain our supplies somewhat, but would leave us well-prepared to fend of zombie attacks and defeat rival bands of survivors after the catastrophe who would likely have lower numbers.

We'll assume 30 people for now. Twenty of them have to be female, meaning we have room for four more men at the moment. I'll review applications as they come in. Please list any relevant skills or qualities that make YOU suitable to survive the zombie apocalypse.

4/16/2005 10:57:34 PM

shit, i'm not living in any fucking dorm.

downtown is where it's at.

4/16/2005 10:59:33 PM

If the situation allows, we may be able to do better than a dorm. At the moment, though, it's most likely the only suitable scenario for a bunch of people who are ostensibly near NCSU to congregate at on short notice.

But if Smath wants out we have room for five males.

4/16/2005 11:01:47 PM

biker suits and leather clothing would work just as well as the firesuits

maybe swat riot gear too, not sure where all that is armored

4/16/2005 11:02:24 PM

SWAT gear? Yes. Leather jackets? No.

By the way, if someone can point me to a reasonably-sized map of campus, I could work out a more detailed plan.

4/16/2005 11:04:18 PM

if the shit is designed to protect you from road rash, it's a decent enough protection against zombie bites

4/16/2005 11:06:08 PM

We ain't tiger sharks, but a human being can bite down pretty hard. I mean, it's possible that leather would work, but why take chances, you know?

4/16/2005 11:07:41 PM

Let's see, I have a gas mask and two filters, 8 smoke gernades, a .45, a baseball bat, a putter, 2 hunting knives, a machete, flashlights, 4 two-way radios and all kinds of fireworks in my room.

Well, the .45 isn't in here, but other than that...

I'm also in pretty decent shape

4/16/2005 11:10:46 PM

Ah yes, the illustrious Mr. Price, with whom I am somewhat...peripherally familiar.

So far the qualifications look solid, but will the busted leg slow you down?

Incidentally, I just equipped my car with a hatchet and a machete today, in case I'm on the road when it happens.

[Edited on April 16, 2005 at 11:18 PM. Reason : ]

4/16/2005 11:17:29 PM

Nah, I can run and jump as fast and as high as I ever could. I just use it as an excuse to get out of helping my friends move.

4/16/2005 11:20:32 PM

Then I'd say you're in.

Unfortunately our little cadre of survivors is heretofore looking like a sausagefest, and I really do feel bad for poor Nerdchick...

Eh, I guess we can always just kidnap some if we get really desperate.

4/16/2005 11:22:14 PM