nice. you can regurgitate the same thing that someone else already refuted.

7/21/2005 7:46:39 PM

Quote :

"nice. you can regurgitate the same thing that someone else already refuted."

huh? English please.

7/21/2005 9:43:38 PM

you probably wouldn't understand English any better than you understood my previous post. Let me break it down for you:

Someone posted article A.
Someone else refuted article A's point.
time passes.
you post article A again with no further commentary or addressing of the refuting of article A.

thus, you regurgitated something someone else already refuted.

7/21/2005 9:45:38 PM

Quote :

"Someone posted article A. Someone else refuted article A's point. time passes. you post article A again with no further commentary or addressing of the refuting of article A. thus, you regurgitated something someone else already refuted."

Ok. Can you show me where it was first posted and refuted?


[Edited on July 21, 2005 at 9:58 PM. Reason : =]

7/21/2005 9:57:49 PM

gamecat posted it here on the 15th:
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=332771&page=2#7157067

it was refuted here:
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=330333&page=2#7185177
Notice that it was published on the 19th (msb says "yesterday" on the 20th)

nearly every point in the original article/column was addressed in the article that msb posted.

seriosuly, not only did you post something that had been refuted, but you posted something that was almost a week old. get with the program, man.

7/21/2005 10:31:07 PM

It's funny how you judge both articles by the dates rather than the contents

7/21/2005 10:42:16 PM

It's funny how you think that I judge both articles by the dates rather than the contents

7/21/2005 10:55:25 PM

you did, they talked about different infractions

7/21/2005 11:30:51 PM

Quote :

"they talked about different infractions"

Exactly. That's why I said;

Quote :

"huh? English please."

7/22/2005 4:50:17 AM

ationals. In other words, the information was so secret it couldn't be shared with friendly foreign intelligence agencies and heads of state, not even Tony Blair.*

This news comes on the heels of a Bloomberg News report that Karl Rove and Lewis "Scooter" Libby lied to the grand jury looking into the betrayal of CIA agent, Valerie Plame. The story will suggest that inasmuch as they told the same story to the grand jury, they are subject to being charged with conspiracy in addition to perjury, and any number of national security violations.

These two new revelations make our previous talking points inoperative. That's unfortunate because I think we were getting a lot of mileage out of the 'Rove never actually spoke Plame's name; he only identified her as 'Wilson's wife'" talking point.

It's done. There's nothing to be gained from dwelling on the loss of such gems. We just need to hit the airwaves and the letters sections of our local newspapers with a new set of talking points. That's why I've created the following points for your use.

Rove/Libby Talking Points for Republican Activists

Rove and Libby did not betray top secret information to foreigners. They betrayed it to American reporters.

Betraying Top Secret information for political purposes is one of the most patriotic things an American citizen can do.

There were too many "non-official cover" agents working on weapons of mass destruction intelligence at the CIA. By betraying Plame, Rove and Libby forced the Agency to become leaner and meaner.

If a great American like Orrin Hatch can betray top secret information, so can Karl Rove and Scooter Libby.

Rove and Libby are good men. They once joined Supreme Court Nominee John G. Roberts in locating a missing white woman.

There is no truth to the rumor that Mr. Rove then ordered a "work up" on the woman to discover her vulnerabilities.

Joe Wilson, on the other hand, has never mentioned the problem of missing white women in any of his interviews.

The 75% of all Americans and the 71% of all Republicans who think that Rove should be fired if he leaked classified information are partisan Democrat hacks. If we have any Top Secret/No Foriegn classified information about them or their spouses, we should use it to destroy them.

The fact that the Administration prosecuted ex-DIA agent Jonathan Randel for leaking information classified at a lower level than Top Secret/No Foriegn, does not mean that Rove and Libby should receive similar treatment. Randel leaked information about a money launderer who was allied with the Administration. Libby and Rove betrayed a CIA agent for honorable reasons--her husband committed a treacherous act, he had embarrassed Our Leader.

http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2005_07_17_patriotboy_archive.html#112201032107354704

7/22/2005 2:02:51 PM

7/24/2005 12:23:02 AM

Quote :

"Lawyer's firing came after call from Rove AUSTIN, Texas - (KRT) - White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove personally called the Texas secretary of state about a newspaper story quoting a staff lawyer about whether Rove was eligible to vote in the state. The lawyer was subsequently fired. Secretary of State Roger Williams said that he decided to dismiss the lawyer after talking with Rove but that the White House adviser didn't request that he do so. ... "Karl called me. He had read the article and wanted to know if it was our stance" that his voter registration status in Texas might be in jeopardy, he said. "I told him it wasn't and that the person who gave that opinion was not authorized to do so.""

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/nation/12667485.htm

Rove is indestructable.

9/17/2005 10:27:20 PM

I wonder if this "ongoing investigation" will ever be brought up by the administration again.

9/18/2005 11:59:54 AM

yeah, and OJ's still going to find the real killers.

9/18/2005 12:49:03 PM

dun dun dun dunnnnnn...will Georgie pardon him?

Do you believe that Rove and Libby outed Joe Wilson's wife as retribution for exposing the bogus reason for going to war with Iraq? [Niger yellow cake uranium]

10/11/2005 11:43:01 PM

see the only problem with that argument is now you people on teh L3ft say Libby outed Plame well before Wilson's piece...

anything to make your boy Wilson out to be the noble hero eh?

10/12/2005 12:10:53 AM

We don't know that.

We don't know what Libby said to Judith Miller prior to Joseph Wilson's op-ed piece. Don't forget, Judith Miller was writing a number of pro-invasion articles, and it wouldn't surprise me that Libby spoke to her in order to keep beating her war drum.

It was Robert Novak who first printed the story about Valerie Plame, and Rove was his source.

10/12/2005 12:39:13 AM

its scandal time....which means, its shock and awe, carpet bombing of all republican seats in 06

10/12/2005 2:07:54 AM

Quote :

"Focus of CIA Leak Probe Appears to Widen By JOHN D. MCKINNON, JOE HAGAN and ANNE MARIE SQUEO Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Ms. Miller's notes show that she also spoke with Mr. Libby in late June, information that was not previously given to the grand jury. Mr. Fitzgerald's pursuit now suggests he might be investigating not a narrow case on the leaking of the agent's name, but perhaps a broader conspiracy."

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB112907415441266084-VDsI1ez92Qlr0_XPP5IbwfiUKHI_20051111.html?mod=blogs

10/12/2005 8:58:15 AM

What color is the sky in your world?

10/12/2005 10:02:54 AM

The color of my sky is a beautiful blue, I imagine yours is dark and stormy with flecks of impending doom.

10/12/2005 10:06:51 AM

Quote :

" Rove's nightmare If Karl Rove told federal officials in 2003 he wasn't involved in outing Valerie Plame, he could face charges. Oct. 7, 2005 | To understand why Karl Rove is believed to be in grave danger of indictment for his role in the Wilson leaks, let's return to the earliest days of the investigation. If Rove is found criminally liable for lying, then the falsehoods that led to his downfall may well have been uttered during the weeks when his old friend and client John Ashcroft was still in charge of the leaks probe -- and before the case was turned over to the special counsel, U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald. During the autumn of 2003, after repeated requests from the CIA, Ashcroft finally exercised his duty as attorney general to investigate the disclosure of Valerie Plame Wilson's identity by administration officials to various journalists. Although the CIA first notified the Justice Department as early as July 30 of a potentially serious crime -- namely, a violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act -- Justice didn't open an investigation until the end of September, after the CIA informed the department that it had completed its own review of the facts. For three months, until Ashcroft decided to recuse himself, the investigation remained under his control, despite the well-founded suspicions of Rove's involvement. Ashcroft willfully ignored his own inherent conflict in overseeing a case that might lead to an indictment of Rove, who had assisted his political campaigns in Missouri and had directed the process that led to his appointment as attorney general. Only after repeated protests from Democrats in Congress, strong editorial comment on the unseemliness of Ashcroft's conduct, and polls showing public demand for an independent counsel did he finally recuse himself from the Wilson matter. By then, however, the investigation had already begun, and Rove, among others in the White House, was already on record publicly denying any involvement in the leaks. Indeed, those denials by Rove himself and White House press secretary Scott McClellan returned to haunt them and the president earlier this year, following evidence provided by Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper about his July 2003 conversation with Rove concerning the Wilsons. Advertisement So now we know the truth about Rove's role -- or at least part of the truth -- and we know that he wasn't being honest back then. The question is what he may have told the FBI agents assigned to investigate the matter during those autumn weeks, before Ashcroft turned over the case to Fitzgerald in late December. On Oct. 24, 2003, the Washington Post reported that Rove and McClellan, among dozens of others, had submitted to FBI interrogation about the leaks. Two months later, the Post quoted administration officials saying that Rove had been among the very first people to be interviewed by the FBI in pursuit of information about the case. Back then, Rove might well have assumed that the case would be buried without any undue inconvenience to him. The president had publicly predicted, after all, that the perpetrators of the leak were unlikely to be identified. There was no reason, at the outset, to think that an independent-minded prosecutor would take over from Ashcroft a few months later. If Rove told the FBI agents the same story that he and McClellan were telling the press, then he might have set himself up for a felony charge of lying to a federal law enforcement official. And if he lied, then he need not have been under oath to have committed a crime. Another intriguing possibility in the leaks case brings back the baroque personality of right-wing pressroom denizen Jeff Gannon, born James Guckert. The New York Times reported Friday that in addition to possible charges directly involving the revelation of Valerie Wilson's identity and related perjury or conspiracy charges, Fitzgerald is exploring other possible crimes. Specifically, according to the Times, the special counsel is seeking to determine whether anyone transmitted classified material or information to persons who were not cleared to receive it -- which could be a felony under the 1917 Espionage Act. One such classified item might be the still-classified State Department document, written by an official of State's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, concerning the CIA's decision to send former ambassador Joseph Wilson to look into allegations that Iraq had tried to purchase uranium from Niger. Someone leaked that INR document -- which inaccurately indicated that Wilson's assignment was the result of lobbying within CIA by his wife, Valerie -- to right-wing media outlets, notably including Gannon's former employers at Talon News. On Oct. 28, 2003, Gannon posted an interview with Joseph Wilson on the Talon Web site, in which he posed the following question: "An internal government memo prepared by U.S. intelligence personnel details a meeting in early 2002 where your wife, a member of the agency for clandestine service working on Iraqi weapons issues, suggested that you could be sent to investigate the reports. Do you dispute that?" Gannon later hinted, rather coyly, that he had learned about the INR memo from an article in the Wall Street Journal. He also told reporters last February that FBI agents working for Fitzgerald had questioned him about where he got the memo. At the very least, that can be interpreted as confirming today's Times report about the direction of the case. All such speculation about criminal indictments must be tempered with caution. Nobody outside Fitzgerald's office can be certain what charges he is considering or whose fate he is mulling over. Even the highest-ranking figures in the Bush White House, which would deprive others of their constitutional rights and has already done so, deserve the presumption of innocence. But certain persons in this government committed a serious offense against the national security of the United States to serve political partisan ends -- and they don't deserve to get away with it. "

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2005/10/07/rove_inquiry/

10/14/2005 2:57:32 PM

so i'm guessing the same people who encouraged the pursuit of charges against bill clinton for his not-so-true testimony are just rallying behind this investigation

right?

10/14/2005 3:09:40 PM

no....because Clinton's testimony wasnt not-so-true....it was a lie

10/14/2005 3:52:42 PM

so explain how what rove did is not "lying"

10/14/2005 4:05:27 PM

if rove gets indicted ...

bushs agenda is over

if rove goes to jail

bush probably will resign

he doesnt even want to be prez

10/14/2005 4:06:38 PM

Josh,

I agree. Bush just seems to have that "Man get me the fuck out of here" look working these days. I'm sure he wakes up and wonders how in the hell he got there. I'm guessing he'd rather be pissing around in Tejas, drinking a beer in the truck, and riding off into the sunset.

Can't say I blame him.

10/14/2005 4:24:35 PM

he sure as fuck looks like hes sick of it all


[Edited on October 14, 2005 at 4:30 PM. Reason : - ]

10/14/2005 4:30:07 PM

haha...you guys are funny

10/14/2005 5:05:11 PM

i'm sick of it all and i'm not even president.

10/14/2005 9:39:09 PM

Bill Clinton lied under oath. Karl Rove wasn't under oath. Hell, he wasn't even in an elected office.

10/15/2005 12:00:47 AM

Lying to an FBI agent is a federal crime.

....and...

Quote :

"Vice President's role in outing of CIA agent under examination, sources close to prosecutor say 10/12/2005 Filed by Jason Leopold Cheney's role in CIA outing not known Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is trying to determine whether Vice President Dick Cheney had a role in the outing of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame-Wilson, individuals close to Fitzgerald say. Plame’s husband was a vocal critic of prewar intelligence used by President George W. Bush to build support for the Iraq war. The investigation into who leaked the officer's name to reporters has now turned toward a little known cabal of administration hawks known as the White House Iraq Group (WHIG), which came together in August 2002 to publicize the threat posed by Saddam Hussein. WHIG was founded by Bush chief of staff Andrew Card and operated out of the Vice President’s office. Fitzgerald’s examination centers on a group of players charged with not only selling the war, but according to sources familiar with the case, to discredit anyone who openly “disagreed with the official Iraq war” story. The group’s members included Deputy White House chief of staff Karl Rove, Bush advisor Karen Hughes, Senior Advisor to the Vice President Mary Matalin, Deputy Director of Communications James Wilkinson, Assistant to the President and Legislative Liaison Nicholas Calio, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley and I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby - Chief of Staff to the Vice President and co-author of the Administration's pre-emptive strike policy. Rice was later appointed Secretary of State; her deputy Hadley was made National Security Advisor. Wilkinson departed to become a spokesman for the military's central command, and later for the Republican National Convention. Hughes was recently appointed Undersecretary of State. Several members of the group have testified before Fitzgerald’s grand jury. Cheney’s role under scrutiny Two officials close to Fitzgerald told RAW STORY they have seen documents obtained from the White House Iraq Group which state that Cheney was present at several of the group's meetings. They say Cheney personally discussed with individuals in attendance at least two interviews in May and June of 2003 Wilson gave to New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof and Washington Post reporter Walter Pincus, in which he claimed the administration “twisted” prewar intelligence and what the response from the administration should be. Cheney was interviewed by the FBI surrounding the leak in 2004. According to the New York Times, Cheney was asked whether he knew of any concerted effort by White House aides to name Ms. Wilson. Sources close to the investigation have also confirmed that special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is trying to determine Vice President Cheney's role in the outing of Mrs. Wilson, more specifically, if Cheney ordered the leak. Those close to Fitzgerald say they have yet to uncover any evidence that suggests Cheney ordered the leak or played a role in the outing of Mrs. Wilson. Still, the sources said they are investigating claims that Cheney may have been involved based on his attendance at meetings of the Iraq group. Previous reports indicate Cheney was intimately involved with the framing of the Iraq war. On Wednesday, The Wall Street Journal confirmed that the Iraq group was under scrutiny. “Formed in August 2002, the group, which included Messrs. [Karl] Rove and [Lewis] Libby, worked on setting strategy for selling the war in Iraq to the public in the months leading up to the March 2003 invasion,” the Journal reported. “The group likely would have played a significant role in responding to [former Ambassador Joseph] Wilson's claims” that the Bush administration twisted intelligence when it said Iraq tried to acquire yellow-cake uranium from Africa. Rove's "strategic communications" task force operating inside the group was instrumental in writing and coordinating speeches by senior Bush administration officials, highlighting in September 2002 that Iraq was a nuclear threat. Background The White House Iraq Group operated virtually unknown until January 2004, when Fitzgerald subpoenaed for notes, email and attendance records. Bush Chief of Staff Andrew H. Card Jr. created the group in August of 2002. “A senior official who participated in its work called it "an internal working group, like many formed for priority issues, to make sure each part of the White House was fulfilling its responsibilities," according to an Aug. 10, 2003, Washington Post investigative report on the group’s inner workings. Senior Bush adviser Karl Rove chaired meetings of the group. The group relied heavily on New York Times reporter Judith Miller, who, after meeting with several of the organization’s members in August 2002, wrote an explosive story that many critics of the war believe laid the groundwork for military action against Iraq. On Sunday, Sept. 8, 2002, Miller wrote a story for the Times quoting anonymous officials who said aluminum tubes found in Iraq were to be used as centrifuges. Her report said the "diameter, thickness and other technical specifications" of the tubes -- precisely the grounds for skepticism among nuclear enrichment experts -- showed that they were "intended as components of centrifuges." She closed her piece by quoting then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice who said the United States would not sit by and wait to find a smoking gun to prove its case, possibly in the form of a “a mushroom cloud." After Miller’s piece was published, administration officials pursued their case on Sunday talk shows using Miller’s piece as evidence that Iraq was pursuing a nuclear bomb, even though those officials were the ones who supplied Miller with the story and were quoted anonymously. Rice's comments on CNN’s “Late Edition” reaffirmed Miller’s story. Rice said that Saddam Hussein was "actively pursuing a nuclear weapon" and that the tubes -- described repeatedly in U.S. intelligence reports as "dual-use" items -- were "only really suited for nuclear weapons programs, centrifuge programs." Cheney, on NBC's "Meet the Press," also mentioned the aluminum tubes story in the Times and said "increasingly, we believe the United States will become the target" of an Iraqi atomic bomb. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, on CBS's "Face the Nation," asked viewers to "imagine a September 11th with weapons of mass destruction.” President Bush reiterated the image of Rice’s mushroom cloud comment in his Oct. 7, 2002 speech. The International Atomic Energy Agency later revealed that Iraq’s aluminum tubes were never designed to enrich uranium. In February of 2003, WHIG allegedly scripted the speech Powell made to the United Nations presenting the United States’ case for war. Powell’s speech to the UN, United Press International reported, “was handled by the White House Iraq Group, which… provided Powell with a script for his speech, using information developed by Feith's group. Much of it was unsourced material fed to newspapers by the OSP. Realizing this, Powell's team turned to the now-discredited National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq. But some of Feith's handiwork ended up in Powell's mouth anyway.” Miller appears in Jury room again Miller’s second appearance before the grand jury investigating the CIA leak seems to be tied to her meeting and discussions in June of 2003 with I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, Vice President Cheney’s chief of staff, sources close to the investigation said. The meeting came one year before the New York Times printed a lengthy mea culpa discrediting a half-dozen of Miller’s prewar stories on the Iraqi threat. Fitzgerald’s investigation resulted when allegations surfaced that Bush Administration officials had called reporters to circulate the name of the CIA officer, Valerie Plame-Wilson, in an attempt to discredit her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, a critic of the administration's Iraq policy. Wilson went to Niger in 2002 at the request of the CIA to investigate reports that Iraq was trying to buy uranium "yellow cake" to develop nuclear weapons. He found that the reports were not credible. Until now, Fitzgerald’s two-year investigation has focused on conversations Karl Rove and Lewis “Scooter” Libby have had with individual journalists, including Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper and New York Times reporter Judith Miller. That has now changed. Fitzgerald has retraced his steps to an earlier period when he first began to examine the White House Iraq Group. During its very first meetings, Card's Iraq group ordered a series of white papers showing Iraq’s arms violations. The first paper, "A Grave and Gathering Danger: Saddam Hussein's Quest for Nuclear Weapons," was never published. However, the paper was drafted with the assistance of experts from the National Security Council and Cheney's office. Now Fitzgerald is trying to find out whether Cheney was involved. "

more here:
http://rawstory.com/admin/dbscripts/printstory.php?story=1305

10/15/2005 12:26:49 AM

try posting from a reputable source if you want anyone to read it

10/15/2005 12:45:28 AM

Isn't it odd that Cheney was the person that wanted Joe Wilson to investigate the false Niger Yellow Cake sale to Iraq, only to have his chief of staff "out" Wilson's wife months later?

10/15/2005 9:38:42 PM

What is this out crap? She wasn't undercover. Hell, Rove hasn't been indicted and probably won't be.

10/15/2005 9:43:26 PM

When the investigation first started, Rove may have lied to an FBI agent. That's a federal crime.

10/15/2005 9:55:00 PM

Yep, it's all about the seriousness of the allegation and nothing about the actual facts of the situation.

10/15/2005 10:07:49 PM

it wasn't much of a crime when clinton lied to investigators

BUT I GUESS THATS DIFFERENT!!!

10/15/2005 10:08:21 PM

Let me ask again. Why would senior Whitehouse staff leake information about Joseph Wilson's wife to reporters? There were multiple sources and muliple reporters involved. What was the motive?

10/15/2005 11:22:30 PM

the reason that there were multiple people involved is because it was apparently common knowledge that his wife worked for the CIA even before all this shit happened.

10/16/2005 11:14:27 AM

Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, (what would the Republicans do without Clinton?) ... Some people feel that context is important ... Lying about getting a blow-job has little to do with national security ... (what a misguided investigation anyway ... imagine).

Lying about a blow-job <-----------> Lying to shut someone up because they're letting people know the truth - that your pretext for going to war is a fraud.

Bush is a complete sleezebag. Willing to lie to go to war. Complete disregard for the American public. Not only does he do sleezy stuff, but he signs an executive order to ensure that historians can't find out how truely sleezy he (or his father) were. It's not only sleezy, it goes against everything this country stands for.



[Edited on October 16, 2005 at 11:30 AM. Reason : *~<]BO]

10/16/2005 11:28:46 AM

Quote :

"try posting from a reputable source if you want anyone to read it"

Rawstory is fairly reliable, and usually ahead of the news curve.

Quote :

"Cheney May Be Entangled in CIA Leak Investigation, People Say Oct. 17 (Bloomberg) -- A special counsel is focusing on whether Vice President Dick Cheney played a role in leaking a covert CIA agent's name, according to people familiar with the probe that already threatens top White House aides Karl Rove and Lewis Libby. The special counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald, has questioned current and former officials of President George W. Bush's administration about whether Cheney was involved in an effort to discredit the agent's husband, Iraq war critic and former U.S. diplomat Joseph Wilson, according to the people. Fitzgerald has questioned Cheney's communications adviser Catherine Martin and former spokeswoman Jennifer Millerwise and ex-White House aide Jim Wilkinson about the vice president's knowledge of the anti-Wilson campaign and his dealings on it with Libby, his chief of staff, the people said. The information came from multiple sources, who requested anonymity because of the secrecy and political sensitivity of the investigation. "

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aSuj1d8CcYAk&refer=top_world_news

10/17/2005 8:18:08 AM