[3]

3/3/2006 8:18:45 PM

never had superior hardware? you're gonna tell me the powerpc didn't own the shit out of the 286, 386, 486, and p133's available at the time? I think up until the time of the Tbird and P4 the g3 and g4 had a much higher flop count than amd and intels top of the line chip. apple had hardware supremacy and software supremacy (from a feature set and stability standpoint) from the 70's to the mid/late 90's and if you don't believe that, you're a fool. just because you had to wait a year to get duke nukem or quake1 for apple doesn't mean it was shitty. there are still features clarisworks and hyperstudio had that MS Office doesn't have.

As apple's market share dropped off, they reprioritized, and restaffed (insert steve jobs). Since then, real innovation has become stagnant in favor of UI development although not at a fundamental level.. like inventing the mouse or the gui or anything.. like refusing to ship a mouse with 2 buttons and adding shit like expose.

Quote :

"Garageband iPhoto iLife in general iDVD iTunes (which, as mp3 player sellout as you think it may be, is an incredibly well designed piece of software and service) Final Cut Shake "

syrillium cool edit (been around since 96)
I really can't see a picture viewer being an innovation
a suite of lame utilities for people who want to be creative.. yay... just because it's easy to use, doesn't mean it's good or innovative
itunes has neatish ways of organizing music, almost implementing a database on top of a flat file system, I will give them that. as of late however its become a perversion of the original product and a piece of shit, like winamp after aol took over
final cut IS pretty quality, but I'm pretty sure silicon graphics had cool utilities that predated this
I don't know wtf shake is but from apple's page, it looks like maya or bryce and there's no way to tell who came with this technology first

3/4/2006 1:02:11 AM

Quote :

"you're gonna tell me the powerpc didn't own the shit out of the 286, 386, 486, and p133's available at the time?"

Considering, IIRC, both the first Pentiums and first PowerPC chips were released right around the same time I'd think it's pretty clear from history which one of the two was deemed to "own the shit" out of the other.

3/4/2006 1:11:29 AM

Shake is one of the best compositing renderers on the market. Ever heard of Combustion from Discreet? Their one of the competitors. They purcahsed a little company called Nothing Real, and gave them basically free reign for development. Result? Shake is now becoming rediculously popular (ever hear of a movie called Lord of the Rings? yea that was Shake) and the developer has grown immensely.

Garageband is NOT cool edit. It was developed BY syntrillium who was purchase by Apple. It may have odes to cool edit, but it's definitely not the same thing. And if anything, that's showing even MORE innovation to be buying up companies with good products and improving them, marketing them properly and having a customer base WANTING to use them.

if you find iLife to be "lame", it's very very apparent you aren't a creative person. I mean there's nothing wrong with having no creativity, imagination, or originality. But the software for people who are and do, iLife is a DAMN good suite. Everything works, out of the box, together.

iTunes for the PC you could maybe, maybe make that argument with. Mind you, I've used it on the PC for about a year and a half with almost no problem. The problems I have encountered were from me trying to do things I'm not supposed to anyway. But on the Mac, iTunes is rock solid and as easy to use as ever (same goes for the PC frankly).

To even BEGIN to compare iTunes over it's development cycle to Winamp from 2.x to 5x is absolutely ignorant.

Quote :

"silicon graphics had cool utilities that predated this"

The fact you think Final Cut is a set of "cool utilities" just cements the fact you are talking completely out of your ass.

Quote :

" it looks like maya or bryce and there's no way to tell who came with this technology first"

Comparing Shake to Maya, and Maya to BRYCE? Are you just TRYING to make yourself look like a fucking idiot? Because you are succeeding amazingly.

I'll let others handle the hardware argument, because it's clear you are either on Meds or Drunk.

3/4/2006 1:26:12 AM

well if you are refering to the micro-processor side of things only then the playing field changes, but computers are not just their CPU.... and it's that side of things that slid for Apple's hardware...

3/4/2006 4:28:35 AM

adobe bought syntrillium
http://www.adobe.com/special/products/audition/syntrillium.html apple didnt buy a damn thing

I'm a pretty creative person, I just don't need a "user friendly" box of apple utils to explore and exhibit my creativity.

Quote :

"I don't know wtf shake is but from apple's page, it looks like maya or bryce "

I even gave a disclaimer I didnt know what I was talking about when I commented on shake, was just making an semi-educated guess.

I've used final cut but all the things I saw and did in it, silicon graphics had been doing for years. I'm no peter jackson so maybe there are features I didnt uncover but I'm pretty sure you won't be making anything with the latest version of final cut pro today that would rival the silicon graphics stuff fox was using 5-10 years ago.

and yes, since I don't own an apple, besides some Apple II's and my 6330 performa, I can't comment on itunes on apple, but it sucks balls on pc. I'm pretty sure if I was using an apple, I'd find someway to use xmms before I'd use itunes

3/4/2006 4:38:17 AM

so then wtf are you talking about cool edit for?

And talking about "well SGI has been doing this for years" is like saying Windows 3.1 looks just like Windows XP, I mean there's still folders and icons and Windows and stuff, I mean surely not much could have changed in 5-10 years.

Dude you are a fucking idiot.

SGI did a lot of neat things. But their software has been blown out of the water years ago by both PC and Mac successors.

And iTunes doesn't suck balls on the PC. Maybe it's not for you. And I'm sure you would find a way to use whatever the most obscure, leet, open-source, super configurable, awesomo application is in place of whatever is mainstream. We've already established you have more time than sense.

3/4/2006 10:45:26 AM

I was talking about cool edit as a response to garage band, and how its not at all an innovation. All they did was take the midi creation UI from my cell phone and put it on top of a small fraction of the cool edit feature set

3/4/2006 11:59:44 AM

Hahaha.

You do realize there is MUCH more to software than the "feature set". Just keep digging yourself deeper dude. Garageband isn't supposed to be a fucking Pro Tools or Cakewalk alternative. It, like the rest of iLife is apparently beyond your mental capability in terms of market position.

3/4/2006 12:07:01 PM

dude, your grandma could start using pro tools to create music without and computer or music experience

3/4/2006 12:22:52 PM

Quote :

"Noen: And I'm sure you would find a way to use whatever the most obscure, leet, open-source, super configurable, awesomo application is in place of whatever is mainstream. We've already established you have more time than sense."

At this point I kind of feel an obligation to go "pwnt, [/thread]"...

3/4/2006 12:53:30 PM

^You should do it.

3/4/2006 1:00:08 PM

Quote :

"And iTunes doesn't suck balls on the PC."

incorrect.

quicktime has sucked balls on pc since it was released.

the addition of itunes built upon this suckatude to bring about a whole new level of ball sucking.

3/4/2006 1:12:49 PM

another vote for iTunes sucking on the PC.

Fucking Horrible.

3/4/2006 1:35:52 PM

Can someone give me some specifics of the sucking here?

Other than "waahhh I dont like it, its not winamp"?

I've seriously never had any major problem with it. Sure it's not perfect, there are several features that could be much better, but I like it MUCH more than what I was using previously (Winamp 2.95).

3/4/2006 1:39:35 PM

aside from the horrid interface and stupid default options i'd say memory leaks and the installation of worthless extra services.

and i dont know why you'd scoff at winamp.

its easier to use than itunes
more configurable than itunes
more stable than itunes.
100% better than itunes


BUT OH WAIT NO APPLE LOGO!!! OSHIT THAT MEANS ITS SUX!

3/4/2006 1:48:17 PM

Slow.

Its got shit running all the fucking time (wtf is the Bonjour Service supposed to fucking do anyways?)

Doesn't synch as fast as WMP10 with my devices.

3/4/2006 2:35:14 PM

i use wmp10 most of the time for simple playing. If i want more options (read pluggins) i use winamp.

3/4/2006 2:37:43 PM

I've been using iTunes long before it was called that (and before any association with Apple) and I've never had a problem with it other than it failing to update the library if your hard drive becomes full.

3/4/2006 2:39:08 PM

Quote :

"its easier to use than itunes more configurable than itunes more stable than itunes. 100% better than itunes"

For managing my thousands of music files, it BLOWS. And yes all my shit is tagged and organized. But I like to make playlists and listen to more than one genre of music.

It's definitely not Easier than iTunes in any sense for managing music. Playing music, MAYBE.

What the fuck do you need to configure? I want to push play and hear sound. I don't need fucking trippy visualizations or crossfading or any other retarded special effects.

Stable? I've personally never had either iTunes or Winamp 2.x crash on me, so I can't say either is worse. Used both for about the same amount of time.

Quote :

"aside from the horrid interface and stupid default options i'd say memory leaks and the installation of worthless extra services. "

Horrid Interface? Are you legitimately going to compare the interface design of WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER to iTUNES? Stupid default options? Maybe for you, but the wonderful thing is they are called OPTIONS for a reason. With all the fucking "configuration" you are willing to do in winamp, you'd think setting options in any program wouldn't be so tough.

Quote :

"BUT OH WAIT NO APPLE LOGO!!! OSHIT THAT MEANS ITS SUX!"

Pot, kettle, black. More like "OMG it's Apple, its got to be so simply it will seem demeaning if I, supreme techie, am discovered using an intuitive product".

Quote :

"Its got shit running all the fucking time (wtf is the Bonjour Service supposed to fucking do anyways?)"

Because you don't already have TONS of retarded as fuck services running already? And if you don't, what in the hell are you running windows for anyway? The whole "omg it's a resource hog" argument is superfluous.

Quote :

"Doesn't synch as fast as WMP10 with my devices"

Now THAT is a legitimate reason. +10 points for Maugan and WMP10.

Btw, I happen to quite like WMP for everything except music. It's interface and management is kludgy at best for audio. For video it's right on target.

3/4/2006 3:17:26 PM

Quote :

" Since then, real innovation has become stagnant in favor of UI development although not at a fundamental level.. like inventing the mouse or the gui or anything.. like refusing to ship a mouse with 2 buttons and adding shit like expose. "

Instead they ship a mouse that can work as either a one or two button mouse (not a perfect implementation to be sure, but definately an impressive device) and exposé is a great new addition to the interface. And it's more than dashboard and it's widgets. The window management abilities of expose is excellent. And you obviously and repeatedly ignore the Core* technologies which are rather impressive things. Then of course theirs Rendevous/Bonjour (yes, based off the open source ZeroConf but made to actualy work. And the mac mini? That was an impressive piece of engineering.

You seem to be confusing innovation with invention which are two different and distinct concepts.

BTW, if you think innovation became stagnent after steve jobs came back, you really need to go take another look at Apple history in the mid 90's vs 98 and on.

Quote :

"wtf is the Bonjour Service supposed to fucking do anyways?"

ZeroConf networking to stream your music from one computer to another.

3/4/2006 3:23:59 PM

Quote :

"quicktime has sucked balls on pc since it was released. the addition of itunes built upon this suckatude to bring about a whole new level of ball sucking."

You want to talk about suckatude? Let's talk about WMP for the Mac. It is one of the worst and worst-supported programs for any operating system ever. At least Apple keeps their versions and format support in sync. WMP for Mac hasn't been updated in like 3 years, and it's officially abandonware now. I will have to rely on VLC and thrid party replacements from now on. I guess when you have that kind of market share, you can afford to use tactics like that.

3/4/2006 3:47:21 PM

^Flip4Mac will get WMP files playing in QT.

I didn't like WMP on the PC...and it's that much worse on a mac.

3/5/2006 1:41:52 AM

Quote :

"Because you don't already have TONS of retarded as fuck services running already? And if you don't, what in the hell are you running windows for anyway? The whole "omg it's a resource hog" argument is superfluous. "

Well the bonjour service phones the fuck home every goddamned time I boot so it can fucking die and go to hell.

WMP10 doesn't have anything loaded when I don't have music playing or a device plugged in.

When comparing the two, WMP10 wins in that regard. I've never had a problem with WMP's interface, nor its ability to generate playlists or whatever you're complaining about.

Also, itunes has to rip a CD to your fucking "music library" before it goes onto an ipod. With WMP10, I can rip it directly to my device.

3/5/2006 10:09:57 AM

^Nice option with the ripping. I can't say why I'd ever want to do that, but WMP definitely has the leg up there.

Quote :

"WMP10 doesn't have anything loaded when I don't have music playing or a device plugged in."

Oh yea it does. In the same way internet explorer doesn't have anything loaded when you don't have music playing or a device plugged in. You got TONS of overhead the WMP relies on to be so compact and zippy.

I dunno about it phoning home, connecting to the lan to search for peers maybe.

3/5/2006 11:51:35 AM

Quote :

"I dunno about it phoning home, connecting to the lan to search for peers maybe."

No, it was phoning home.

3/5/2006 12:01:17 PM

Given that Bonjour is zero conf networking on the local subnet, it would be rather strange for it to phone home (and where would home be?). There are only two times iTunes would phone home. On start up if you have it set to check for new updates automaticaly and on song selection if you enable the mini-store.

3/5/2006 12:05:32 PM

Since you were so concerned of its phoning home, did you do a packet sniff on it?

3/5/2006 12:09:45 PM

Quote :

"Flip4Mac will get WMP files playing in QT."

Yeah, I actually have that, and it works in a pinch, but it's far from ideal. There are certain types of WMP content that it will not handle yet, and the browser implementation is rather poor (though I prefer to play things locally, anyway).

3/5/2006 2:30:08 PM