no im pretty sure this is the 5th year with it.

3/13/2006 12:17:04 PM

2002

3/13/2006 12:18:55 PM

ah

in that case he effectively fixed a pretty big problem.

I DO think now that he is getting better and more athletic recruits he should go more towards a conventional style of offense. Maybe he is reluctant to do it for some reason that I am not aware of.

I would be hesitant to leave something that took you out of the gutter and into the NCAA's consistently though I guess.

3/13/2006 12:19:23 PM

i was trying to dig something up to verify that it was 2002 and found this great little nugget. basically it's an angry fan whining and bitching and sounding exactly like the herb haters of today, and this was in 2001. it just makes me laugh when you consider what HUGE progress we have made since 2001. the fact that people still say the exact same things makes me absolutely certain that no matter what herb does for us, people will never be satisfied.

if he is ever given the chance to stay long enough to win a NC, people will still want him fired b/c he "should have done it sooner".

here's the link: http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2005/02/05/flashback-beowulfs-top-10-excuses/

3/13/2006 12:22:12 PM

Quote :

""

Does that graph include the 2004-05 season results when we went 7-9 ACC?



[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 12:23 PM. Reason : `]

3/13/2006 12:22:54 PM

we followed that by going 10-6 though.

nobody is perfectly linear. look at the great coaches that came before herb. look at valvano's ups and downs. i'm not saying herb is better than valvano, because you'd crucify me, but he's certainly more consistant.

3/13/2006 12:24:51 PM

^^you mean when we went to the sweet 16?

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 12:25 PM. Reason : *]

3/13/2006 12:25:08 PM

shit look at sloan, he only was great cause of thompson, he was "mediocre" without him

3/13/2006 12:26:11 PM

^^yeah, he's just arguing that because the graph only shows acc games and we went 7-9 in the best conference in basketball that year.

^exactly. we get one of the greatest college players of all time and of course we do well. personally i think what herb has done is more impressive from a pure coaching standpoint. i think he's gotten more out of the guys we've had than most coaches would have.


[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 12:28 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2006 12:26:33 PM

Quote :

"I DO think now that he is getting better and more athletic recruits he should go more towards a conventional style of offense. Maybe he is reluctant to do it for some reason that I am not aware of."

I don't think the offense has ever been as clear-cut as people make it out to be...

We've steadily moved toward running the break more as we get more athletic players. We've moved away from cuts to trying to feed the post (although teams caught on very quickly to Ced's weak points, and McCauley is incapable of finishing). The spread offense is great for guys who can drive (Cam, Gavin lately).

There's still plenty of room for improvement, don't get me wrong, but I don't think the offense is the reason we've faltered lately, and I really don't think that that style is set in stone.

3/13/2006 12:38:24 PM

Ced has no business at the 3 point line. he isnt MM or JC.

3/13/2006 12:40:07 PM

Quote :

"It’s not the coach’s fault the players miss the shots and turn the ball over. Oh, how enticing this excuse is. It assumes that 18-year-olds are complete ballplayers as soon as they enroll. It?s a matching pair with the ?great recruits? fantasy; coaches are to recruit, players are to play. But the fact is coaches are responsible for imparting the basic fundamentals of the game to their players. A variation of this excuse was used during the final years of Mike O?Cain at NC State; under him, the coaches supposedly weren?t responsible for the players missing tackles, dropping catchable passes and fumbling. Surprisingly, many of the same people who made those excuses for O?Cain missed the fact that players began making the tackles, catching the passes and holding on to the football better under a different football staff well-known for drilling the fundamentals of that sport. The inability to understand this fundamental fact is stupidity."

interesting reference to how technically sound and diciplined Amato football teams are.

3/13/2006 12:41:34 PM

haha yeah. that was one of the effects of "the hype"

3/13/2006 12:42:55 PM

Even that isn't as bad as people make it out to be (in principle).

In man-to-man, it makes sense to start your big man past the free-throw line and rotate him down, especially since Ced is faster than most big men and has that long wingspan to catch a lob over the top.

I will agree that we don't rotate him down fast enough or often enough. There's no reason he should be out there for 20+ seconds of the shot clock. For those plays, I think Brack makes way more sense at the top of the key because he's a legitimate 3-point threat, he's big enough to be a screener, and he's not that effective battling in the post.

3/13/2006 12:43:01 PM

Quote :

"Ced has no business at the 3 point line. he isnt MM or JC"

3/13/2006 12:43:09 PM

JC?

hahaha. so a few shots last year got JC thrown into the same category as Marcus Melvin? that's funny. really, it is.

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 12:51 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2006 12:50:59 PM

wait

youre saying JC wasnt a threat from 3 point land

?

I am only saying from a scornig threat out there. JC and MM could both knock it down so they drew the big guys out.

No such threat with lil head

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 12:53 PM. Reason : *]

3/13/2006 12:52:43 PM

i'm saying a comparison between he and MM in that regard is laughable.

yeah, JC made some his senior year, but not like melvin

3/13/2006 12:53:37 PM

I compared Ced to JC and MM

noone compared JC to MM

3/13/2006 12:54:17 PM

lol ok, im not trying to argue with you

it's just the way you said "JC and MM" as if they were comparable. the point remains that ced isn't a threat from behind the arc, which i agree with you on.

3/13/2006 12:55:34 PM

yeah my bad, i should have worded it better.

3/13/2006 12:56:43 PM

Quote :

"in the exact same sense that if herb took another coaching job this offseason you would claim that we didnt run him off either"

You apparently know nothing about the Norm Sloan situation, then.


Norm Sloan left for 2 reasons.

1) He was sick of the UNC press bullshit (Which was much much much more biased at the time than it is nowadays). He had an NCAA title and fielded various solid teams, while Dean Smith didn't have a title, yet he couldn't get any respect whatsoever from local media outlets... the same ones that praised Dean Smiff as the greatest coach to ever walk the planet.

2) He got an offer from Florida that we wouldn't match that nearly doubled his salary and more than doubled the salary of all of his assistant coaches.


NCSU fans were pissed when Sloan got away becuase failures of a horrible administration at the time. It had nothing to do with our fans.... actually, it was the complete opposite

I don't care what your opinion on Herb is. To say we ran off Norm Sloan is completely wrong....as a matter of fact it couldn't be more wrong. He was an NCSU alumnus and a great coach.


[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 1:08 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2006 1:00:50 PM

i have heard form numerous sources who were actually alive and attending ncsu at this point in time that the fanbase and major donors were very upset with sloans post-thompson decline. they claimed he didnt take advantage of the thompson years and slacked off in recruiting. they pretty much bitched and bitched and gave him so much flak that he took a comparable job (im pretty sure it was only slightly more and not double) at florida

3/13/2006 1:28:26 PM

From what I've read on the situation he was getting paid (Off the top of my head) like $490,000 here... they offered him around $800,000 plus doubled his assistant coaches salaries.


He was not run off. Every coach takes heat... he was loved here.

3/13/2006 1:35:07 PM

and i'm sure people have different perceptions of what happened

3/13/2006 1:55:06 PM

up to date:

3/13/2006 2:55:49 PM

according to the graph, Sendek's ACC winning % is approximately 44-45%

*STELLAR*

3/13/2006 2:58:17 PM

yes, because the first five years fucking matter

all you people are morons. all of you, no matter who you are.

3/13/2006 3:01:02 PM

^^^is that with the rolling 3 year average?

3/13/2006 3:32:48 PM

Hey

show me the chart that explains why we haven't won a game in 4 weeks.

3/13/2006 3:36:29 PM

yea, the rolling 3 year average is right there. it's the big fucking black line labeled "Rolling 3-year Average"

3/13/2006 3:36:37 PM

i would like to see that chart superimposed with unc and duke's winning percentage as well

3/13/2006 4:03:56 PM

because both of those schools havent had a top teir coach and no legal problems over the past 25 years

3/13/2006 4:05:42 PM

WAIT WAIT

SO YOU'RE ADMITING HERB ISN'T A TOP TEIR COACH?

3/13/2006 4:06:49 PM

Of course we don't have a top tier coach.

He's in that second stack of good coaches right after the elite.

3/13/2006 4:11:32 PM

I can agree with that assesment.

3/13/2006 4:13:51 PM

You can't put Sendek on the same level as Sloan, Case, or Valvano because of two things:

No Titles, 8-38 record v. UNC and Duke.

20 win seasons are great, 5 straight NCAA Tournament appearances are also good. But at some point you have to accomplish something of note, like breaking even (at least) with your rivals or winning the ACC Title or getting to the Sweet 16 and beyond at least more than once. And this isn't through 5 or 6 years, it's through a DECADE.

He is a decent coach. He is not a good or great coach. NC State has a great tradition, and we need a great coach to restore that tradition. It is not an unrealistic expectation. Being that this site is mostly students, we just have not experienced success on a level higher than Sendek has acheived, that is why I think so many students are fine with settling for Sendek. I'm not settling for mediocrity.

3/13/2006 4:15:47 PM

and i don't see us getting an elite coach right now. we might be able to develop one though.

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 4:17 PM. Reason : ^you're so wise. please tell me more, mr freshman]

3/13/2006 4:16:08 PM

^^^and you're complaining?

what the fuck are you smoking to think that a "top tier" coach would ever want to coach at state? coach k aint comin here. neither is roy. get your head out of your ass.

^^you do realize that duke has lost only 1 acc tournament game since 99? and you're complaining that we haven't won a title? unc hasn't won one in that time frame either. very few teams make the sweet 16 regularly. you should feel lucky you made it once. you feel like you deserve something, you don't. you feel like there is some great coach out there that is just dying for the chance to come return state to the glory days, there isn't. you think herb can't take this team to the next level, when in fact he's done that numerous times in his tenure here already.

it just doesn't stop. when will the ignorance stop?

[Edited on March 13, 2006 at 4:20 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2006 4:16:16 PM

And because I'm a freshmen means I don't understand Wolfpack tradition in basketball? Does that mean that I can't read the National Championship and ACC Championship Banners I see hanging in the RBC Center?

State certainly has the boosters with the money to put up for an elite coach. We won't know if we could get one unless we tried. I'd be willing to take that risk over keeping Sendek, because the odds are likely that we could get a guy just like him should all of the elites turn us down.

3/13/2006 4:20:44 PM

You all are absolutely right.

You know what, we go to a shit school with shit athletics.

We should never strive to make it better or improve it in anyway.

We should donate thousands of dollars each year so that we can all get hyped up about getting blown out by our rivals

and one and done the NCAAT.

I totally see the light now.

3/13/2006 4:22:26 PM

Quote :

"State certainly has the boosters with the money to put up for an elite coach. We won't know if we could get one unless we tried. I'd be willing to take that risk over keeping Sendek, because the odds are likely that we could get a guy just like him should all of the elites turn us down. "

hahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahha
keep dreamin'

who in the fuck would want to coach with whining-ass fan base like you guys?

3/13/2006 4:25:00 PM

Dude.

We gave Herb a decade to build a fanbase and program.

Seriously, get some perspective.

3/13/2006 4:26:05 PM

and he has built a program. we are far better now than we were 10 years ago.

3/13/2006 4:28:11 PM

And still tiers below where State used to be as a program.

3/13/2006 4:29:37 PM

More like

We're still not as exciting as we were 15 years ago.

You know, before our program was dismantled.

3/13/2006 4:29:47 PM

Quote :

"because both of those schools havent had a top teir coach and no legal problems over the past 25 years"

i just want to see that for my own interest in basketball history

3/13/2006 4:31:55 PM

yeah we were pretty exciting in 91 and 92. when we plummeted to a .200 and .100 conference winning percentage while duke wins back-to-back national championships. that must have been incredible to watch. were you excited to see how badly we could get dominated by the competition from week to week?

wow that sounds great. i want to hear more stories about the excitement of 15 years ago in nc state basketball.

3/13/2006 4:32:57 PM

91-92, not so much. That was after Valvano had already been crucified by the media and our own administration and we entered the dark times.

Try everything from the '50s-late '80s.

3/13/2006 4:36:03 PM

Learn to add dude

05-06 -15 years

90-91

Coincedentally, the last time NC State made the NCAAT.

3/13/2006 4:36:17 PM