Fuck this thread. I'm tired of arguing with idiots.

6/20/2006 4:15:14 PM

haha... me too...

6/20/2006 4:15:58 PM

i'm tired of people who dont understand that a 50 year range on an x-axis does not give a good indication of whats happened over 50,000,000 years

i should just scrap this bachelor of sciences degree from state in favor of an al gore political agenda lockbox

you guys remember the big shot gary payton hit in game 3 of the heat mavs series? it was a big shot that happened at the end of the game...but it has nothing to do with the 0 points he scored in the first 47 minutes of the game, let alone the previous 2 games...do you see where i'm going with this? here let me help you...if you just looked at that payton shot (ie a small fraction of what happened recently) you might think he has been doing the same thing all along...but in reality he didnt score in the previous 100+ minutes / majority of the game...so trying to understand the whole system while only having data about a small recent fraction does not give a good indicator of the whole system necessarily

6/20/2006 4:19:19 PM

oh... yeah your right twista... lets wait untill we can see a vertical line on that CO2 graph... Who cares if we wait for every person to admit or come to believe that global warming is an issue.... we can give it 50-100 years... i mean the CO2 emmisions graphs only look like they are growing exponentially... and we're only talking about OUR PLANET... we can allways.... colonize mars or something like that.

[Edited on June 20, 2006 at 4:23 PM. Reason : .]

6/20/2006 4:22:09 PM

Dammit, some assholes in the future will invent a time machine and take the ICE back thousands of years and drive around!!!!111

6/20/2006 4:23:27 PM

Mine has 1000 years. Yeah, we don't have data on periods where ice cores don't penetrate, so I'm sorry we can't have every single iota of data. Christ, you act like 1000 years is just a blip of data. Believe whatever you like, since it's apparent that you were going to anyway. If this freak trainwreck happens, I hope you're the first to die.

And you're acting like neither of us know anything about science. I'm almost done with my engineering degree, so fuck you.

[Edited on June 20, 2006 at 4:24 PM. Reason : .]

6/20/2006 4:23:42 PM

troll troll troll

6/20/2006 4:24:00 PM

Saddam is bad lets go in he has WMDs...oh wait, we never found WMDs

Global warming is definitely real, lets spend all our resources on reducing CO2 emissions...oh wait,

Quote :

"you act like 1000 years is just a blip of data"

it is just a blip of data

1000 / 2500000000 = 0.0000004 = 0.00004%

i'm such an idiot for thinking that 0.00004% of 100% is just a blip of data

no scientist in the world would say if the history of the Earth is a 24 hour day, that humans first showed up at 11:59:59pm...geologic timescale is nothing like that

btw, i have an engineering degree AND natural resources marine and coastal already

i'm not talking out of my ass here

6/20/2006 4:26:08 PM

part of this whole thing is about conserving our resources, which is a good idea regardless of our impact on the environment.

6/20/2006 4:28:51 PM

How about stop increasing our defense budget and move some money into more research?

Do you realize how much taxpayer money we waste every year anyway? And it's only gotten worse under Bush. The man can't even balance a budget.

6/20/2006 4:29:19 PM

Your using an action pushed for by George W and his conservative buddies which... by your statement i would think means you think was wrong or stupid... to then counter a topic like global warming being our fault... which George W. has only very recently admitted is partly our fault?

6/20/2006 4:30:14 PM

^^do you base deficit on total dollars or percentage of GOP? cause anybody with any sense would do the latter

also i remember 9/11...i think we might need a little bit of defense funding

^i'm just making an analogy that we didnt know what we were getting into in iraq...and we dont know what were getting into in regards to global warming...the analogy was not intended to be political...i just figured if you opposed the iraq war it would be an easy analogy to understand

6/20/2006 4:30:27 PM

Quote :

"Your using an action"

you're

You're comparing invading a country senslessly with casualties to putting money into researching global warming? Money != lives, last I fucking checked. The defense budget didn't need to be raised to accomplish what we did in Iraq, which frankly, isn't much. Not to mention that raising such a budget in the middle of an economic recession was a genius idea. AND THEN THERE WERE TAX CUTS. That seriously makes even less sense.

[Edited on June 20, 2006 at 4:35 PM. Reason : .]

6/20/2006 4:33:05 PM

Ever... your such a spelling/grammar nazi... ... i've allready shown i dont know the difference between phonetically similar words

6/20/2006 4:34:23 PM

Allready?

6/20/2006 4:36:02 PM

Case in point.

6/20/2006 4:36:21 PM

earlier thread

6/20/2006 4:36:30 PM

^^^^^let me see if i can come up with a better analogy since the intent of my first was misconstrued

Nostradamus says the world is going to end in 1999, its in the Bible...oh wait

Global warming is going to flood the whole Earth really soon, some bits of data could be construed to suggest that...oh wait

6/20/2006 4:37:24 PM

Nostradamus is obviously a man of science. Good to quote him.

Although back then, there wasn't anything they could do about it anyway..

[Edited on June 20, 2006 at 4:41 PM. Reason : .]

6/20/2006 4:40:02 PM

oh well im leaving work... I'll check later to see if twista leaves any other pearls of wisdom via piss poor analogies that lack logic .

6/20/2006 4:43:24 PM

you might be better at analogies

your problem is that whole "understanding science" part

6/20/2006 4:56:21 PM

Yep, that's obviously my problem.

But an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

6/20/2006 5:28:38 PM

and we have been making small steps at prevention...how many hybrid cars were on the road 10 years ago? even though we arent a part of kyoto, we have reduced emissions in a number of industries, as well as adopting some incentive programs, ie you use something cleaner, you get a tax break

i personally think one of the most efficient ways to implement cleaner fuel sources in a timely manner is to incorporate the current energy and oil companies into the discussion...regardless of if you think they already have more than enough money, its hard to get big dogs with monopolies to drastically change what they're doing unless they get some kind of compensation...so basically if you took exxon, shell, etc and they were the companies who made the renewable fuels and then you got the automobile big dogs like ford and chevrolet and got them in on it

because if you simply say "we cant use this kind of car, all cars must be this or that" the oil and auto companies are gonna be stubborn...why would they change their profit-motive business unless they could continue to make money

^and that was directed at Amkeener's comment about my analogies...i tried

6/20/2006 5:34:23 PM

whoops

[Edited on June 20, 2006 at 5:35 PM. Reason : double post]

6/20/2006 5:35:17 PM

It doesnt take all of that... It takes switching to Ethanol burning technologies.... Which, we've had since the seventies... why were they not instituted in cars untill recently... because Oil company lobiests and under table dealings between oil industries and automotive industries... and for the simple fact that no body gives a fuck... And then theres idiots like you who dont "believe" in global warming... or think we shouldnt have to switch to cleaner technologies... But we'll eventually work past taht... maybe... as long as gas companys cant further block production and use of ethanol... By the way Ethanol is a $1.00 a gallon right now... wouldnt that be sweet to get a dollar a gallon gas again?

6/20/2006 5:51:09 PM

what makes you think they wont tax the shit out of ethanol?

btw the govt makes a lot more money of gasoline than the oil companies

also how is that gonna impact all the fossil fuels that China burns and what that potentially does to global climate

Quote :

"And then theres idiots like you who dont "believe" in global warming"

is there a God? does global warming exist? i dont "know" the answer to either of those questions...you choose to "believe" in one which is your "opinion"

6/20/2006 5:58:27 PM

lol i dont believe in god... and why would the government tax ethanol anymore than gasoline...? besides you know how easy it'd be to switch... oh and it wont do anything except set a good example for china and reduce our 30 something percent of the worlds CO2 emmisions by a great deal....

But your right... why do something that would be easy and healthy for the US economy when we can do nothing and let rich people get richer and the environment get shittier. (go ahead and troll about the us economy ill tell you how it'll help)

[Edited on June 20, 2006 at 6:05 PM. Reason : .]

6/20/2006 6:03:16 PM

Quote :

"why would the government tax ethanol anymore than gasoline"

you honestly dont think they would tax it more than currently if everybody had to use it to drive around? in other words, you say ethanol is about $1 a gallon right now, give or take...why wouldnt they tax it an additional $1.50 or $1.75 a gallon, effectively making the consumer cost the same as gasoline? do cleaner fuels automatically remove the profit-motive and greed from the government?

Quote :

"why do something that would be easy and healthy for the US economy "

healthy, yes...easy, no...if it was easy it would already be done

Quote :

"and let rich people get richer "

haha you make it sound like the ethanol fuel distribution companies are gonna be some poor mom-and-pop operations

6/20/2006 6:06:24 PM

lol... go look in your gas tank or search on the internet and see if your car can run on ethanol... or... heres a list...
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/afv/ld_vehicles.html


otherwise its not hard or expensive to convert your car over to being able to run it...

To address your point about $1.75 a gallon for ethanol... it'd be a hell of alot better than the 2.90 im paying right now... and then atleast opec wouldnt have my gas tank by its balls...

Poor mom and pop orgs? i dont know... certainly a valid point against making a switch...? yeah right...

[Edited on June 20, 2006 at 6:17 PM. Reason : this link works...]

6/20/2006 6:12:50 PM

1. that link didnt work, i need the referring page to look up my cars

2. mom and pop comment was simply saying the rich are going to continue to get richer regardless of the fuel source...but its a capitalist economy so i dont know why that matters anyway

3. you know whats a lot easier and cheaper than converting your car to being able to use ethanol? not doing anything

why am i gonna switch my car to ethanol when ALL the gas stations around sell GASOLINE

i might as well get a Betamax player and log on to Netflix and wonder why I cant find shit for my Betamax

you might be too young to remember Betamax, if so i apologize

6/20/2006 6:17:25 PM

link works now.. just pick ethanol... secondly your an idiot... why switch... i dont know... 1/3 the cost of gas... how long would it take to pay for itself... not long... secondly the beauty of that list is that if you ahve one those cars you wouldnt have to convert... thirdly ethanol gas stations are coming out... slowly... it'd be quicker if the government would put forth some incentives to offer it... but as it is now i dont think Exxon... or Shell are gonna offer E85 at there gas station... would that make much sense to you if you were in the oil or gas business?... No they make a killing off of gas... Oh and to the mom and pop thing... alot of the ethanol producers are co-ops so it'd atleast disperse the wealth a bit... and anyone can grow corn for ethanol with land... Not everyone can strike oil in their back yard... so mom and pop organizations... sure it'd be more likely with ethanol...

[Edited on June 20, 2006 at 6:25 PM. Reason : .]

6/20/2006 6:21:58 PM

just two quick things

1. When did you convert your car to ethanol? How long did it take you and how much did it cost? And how much trouble do you have finding ethanol when your tank gets low?

2. If you're gonna keep calling me an idiot or moron, quit saying "your a moron" and "your an idiot"...before you can understand the complexities of our environment and economy, you might want to go back to some basic grammar

also neither of my cars were on that list...so i cant convert...so what do i do?

6/20/2006 6:24:16 PM

Haha... ran out of stupid shit to throw at my arguments... gotta attack my grammar... if i cared about my grammar i'd change it... I'm Sure you have perfect grammar in your posts...(if i cared enough i'd look)...Because whats more important making logical arguments in the least ammount of time whilst people can understand you... or being gramatically correct.

[Edited on June 20, 2006 at 6:31 PM. Reason : .]

6/20/2006 6:27:15 PM

lol you cant convert your car cause there not on the list?... how about research ethanol a bit... youc an convert your cars... its not that expensive.... your just argueing for the sake of argueing...

6/20/2006 6:28:10 PM

link the resource that you have that says you can convert your car to ethanol for cheap please

6/20/2006 6:39:19 PM

^^^ It's hard to take someone's arguments on an academic issue seriously when they can't even spell correctly.

6/20/2006 6:41:31 PM

Quote :

"When did you convert your car to ethanol? How long did it take you and how much did it cost? And how much trouble do you have finding ethanol when your tank gets low?"

still waiting for your answers...but wait, let me guess...you havent converted your car either have you?

6/20/2006 6:51:34 PM

This thread is as cute as a bug's ear.

6/20/2006 7:30:03 PM

Some of you watched too much Captain Planet when you were younger.

6/20/2006 8:39:02 PM

I always wanted to be Heart. He had like no value whatsoever, but he had a monkey.

[Edited on June 20, 2006 at 10:27 PM. Reason : .]

6/20/2006 10:27:28 PM

Quote :

"Gore's got more environmentalists in his pocket than Cheney has oil companies in his"

WTF?

FYI: phishhead is a current doctoral candidate at Princeton, with a focus in carbon cycling.

He knows what he is talking about.

Quote :

"the scientists who trust data and not liberal media rhetoric"

Global warming must then be scam created by liberal scientists with an agenda. Okay Bill O'Reilly. Maybe you need to do a bit more research.

Quote :

"3. Detailed data does not go back far enough for us to extrapolate any accurate analysis of whether these temperature increases are a direct result of rising CO2 levels or if they are simply natural Earth cycles"

Vostok Cores. Analysis by Torn and Harte in California and by a European consortium led by Scheffer in the Netherlands have explicitly shown this. These groups have several studies you can freely see in Geophysical Research (GRL).

[Edited on June 21, 2006 at 5:29 AM. Reason : can't type]

6/21/2006 5:27:44 AM

^did you even read through the thread

6/21/2006 10:20:11 AM

No. Not every post. Because frankly I don't have time to kill to read all through all the bullshit.

[Edited on June 21, 2006 at 12:54 PM. Reason : .]

6/21/2006 12:53:59 PM

yeah it is a waste of time... tree makes no point himself just missunderstands or doesnt comment on mine... or Ever.s or anyones for that matter but to you question... no i havnt converted my jeep yet... gonna get a new car. Additionally theres only one E85 station near raleigh but when i get back up there i think i'll look at the price per gallon.... may be incentive enough to go ahead and switch...

6/21/2006 1:02:20 PM

Quote :

"Additionally theres only one E85 station near raleigh but when i get back up there i think i'll look at the price per gallon"

does practicality ever enter your brain? would you seriously consider converting your car to ethanol if you can only fuel it up at one station near raleigh?

Quote :

"tree makes no point himself just missunderstands or doesnt comment on mine"

why would i expect you to have a clue about the issue though when you're a blindly diehard environmentalist who believes strongly in global warming, and i'm simply a fence riding agnostic scientist on the issue who, after taking a half dozen pertinent MEA courses while getting one of my degrees, isnt convinced that global warming is real or not...i've studied more about it than you and i cant come to a solid conclusion...but you "just saw Al Gores new movie" and you "liked it and would recommend it"...you know that is a MOVIE and not a DOCUMENTARY right? dont believe everything you see at the movie theater

maybe i should go see the movie just so i can reference specific points where he embellishes truths and persuades misleading information

6/21/2006 1:11:42 PM

First off, the US signing the Kyoto treaty wouldn't do anything.

Anyone that puts any stock in Al Gore's movie is a complete moron. Do I believe the planet is getting warmer? Yes. Do I believe humans are the cause of this? No, or if partly just a small amount.

Some of you should check out Michael Critchon's book "State of Fear". Its a book of fiction but quotes and displays data from many real scientific studies regarding global temperatures and what not.

Oh, and Amkeener and EverMagenta are way out in left field.

And why the hell would I convert my car to ethanol? I'll get shitty mileage and have to fill up every 200 miles or so. yeah no thanks.

[Edited on June 21, 2006 at 1:31 PM. Reason : k]

6/21/2006 1:29:30 PM

you don't trust al gore, but you trust michael crichton. you've done a lot for your credibility, sir.

6/21/2006 1:47:28 PM

i think he was trying to say that michael crichton, a fiction writer, can write some convincing things using real data, just like al gore can come up with some convincing things using real data

if you dont think this movie is politically motivated....well i would disagree with you

6/21/2006 1:51:40 PM

^^I'm not really sure what you're trying here.

^Yes that, and the fact that he quotes scientifici journals and whatnot. So you're saying he made up all the data? B/c on the first page he clearly states that all annotations and footnotes are 100% true.

yeah I guess he's just making it all up.

6/21/2006 1:53:53 PM

Quote :

"you don't trust al gore, but you trust michael crichton. you've done a lot for your credibility, sir."

i would just as soon trust crichton as gore

just because gore is into polotics he is somehow trust worthy on the subject? do you even know how much time and research crichton put into his book?

even if you dont read his book, you can look at the information he references and the countless speeches and interviews he has done on the subject.

youve just shot your credibility to shit if you dont think crichton has a well researched and legitimate position on the issue.

[Edited on June 21, 2006 at 2:01 PM. Reason : *]

6/21/2006 2:00:15 PM