Which is much rarer than you would think reading the reports, but he's some infor for you:

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special43/articles/1224taserlist24-ON.html167/

Taser International (the company that makes them) claims that tasers have been used over 100,000 times over the years. 167/100000 is 0.1% having a death following (and note that not all of the 167 say the taser was a factor).

Would you care to look at what the lasting injury/fatality rate is for being manhandled by cops?

11/21/2006 9:26:25 AM

Found the UCLA policy:

http://www.ucpd.ucla.edu/ucpd/zippdf/2006/Taser_Policies.pdf

Quote :

"The application of any pain compliance technique shall be discontinued once the officer determines that full compliance has been achieved. "

Quote :

"6) CRITERIA FOR USE - DRIVE STUN Authorized personnel may use a Taser in a drive stun capacity, as a pain compliance technique, in the following situations. A) To eliminate physical resistance from an arrestee in accomplishing an arrest or physical search. B) When a skirmish line is deployed and/or for pain compliance against passive resistors as allowed in UCLA Police Policy § 301.24 (Pain Compliance Techniques). C) To stop a dangerous animal. "

11/21/2006 10:00:44 AM

You find the stats since you apparently are ok with people dieing during arrest anyway. I bet you are pro-torture, aren't you?

11/21/2006 10:10:36 AM

Quote :

"A) To eliminate physical resistance from an arrestee in accomplishing an arrest or physical search. "

I think we can all agree that "physical resistance" referred to here is when subjects are struggling. Not lying passive on a floor in the fetal position. Those of you trying to draw black and white lines about someone lying on a floor as resisting look like dumbasses.

11/21/2006 10:12:56 AM

According to a few reports, he was grabbing at chairs and pulling away from the officers. Sounds like physical resistance to me. Also I like how you leave out condition B. Read it again. That's an OR in there.


I'm also not "OK" with people dying durring arrest, but I understand that it does happen. It's the end result of the fact that force is used in making an arrest, and not all people (like this fool) go along willingly. However, in almost every department that has deployed tasers, injuries to both officers and suspects have gone down since deployment. No solution is perfect, but a taser to the ass is better than a batton to the knee.

[Edited on November 21, 2006 at 10:45 AM. Reason : jhggf]

11/21/2006 10:20:21 AM

where are these "reports" you mention?

11/21/2006 11:13:00 AM

The eye witness reports on the previous page assert that he was resisting them, and more than a handful of the original articles mentioned he pulled away from the cops when they first attempted to restrain him. You would also be a fool to think that someone who's screaming at the top of their lungs "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ME" is not trying to get them to stop touching him.

11/21/2006 12:51:12 PM

UARA

Uppity Arab Resisting Arrest

11/21/2006 12:53:19 PM

The argument isn't about resisting or about being a thoughtless moron in sticking to some 'official' procedure.

Clearly, judgment was lacking by these cops in tazing the guy 4 times too many.

It's the "stick to the protocol" guys like b4k4 that gets civil rights trampled all over at times when humanity is a much better judge than a line item of some official document somewhere.

11/21/2006 1:00:32 PM

damn this shit made me mad.

11/21/2006 1:03:28 PM

Cops always wanna do it their way. According to some of the reports, the kid was walking out of the library on his own but stopped because the cops wouldn't take their hands off him. We all know what it feels like to be touched when we don't wanna be touched. The kid wants to feel like he's leaving the library on his own terms, and the cops wanna feel like they're the big, bad po-lice taking care of business. And, if having a taser makes them big and bad, then they're gonna win that one every time. But had they not been so concerned with their big badness, they coulda took care of business easier by just taking their hands off him and letting him leave the library.

You gotta do what the cops tell you to do, I know. But, if you go your whole life obeying the law and staying out of trouble, and then one day, a cop starts barking at you and threatening you, like you just shot and killed a man during a robbery or some shit, there's a chance you might be a little angry at the men in uniform accosting you. And the cops know that's how you're gonna feel, and it bothers them so they give you even more shit. After all, you shouldn't be angry with them. You should respect them. They're the police! And so the battle begins...

[Edited on November 21, 2006 at 1:18 PM. Reason : sss]

11/21/2006 1:13:15 PM

By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of those cops hates seeing all the brown kids in college while he's stuck being a cop whose main job is cleaning up drunk college kid vomit.

I also wouldn't be surprised if at least one of those cops genuinely believed, in his poor, pathetic mind, that he was fighting in the war on terror.

11/21/2006 1:22:22 PM

Quote :

"It's the "stick to the protocol" guys like b4k4 that gets civil rights trampled all over at times when humanity is a much better judge than a line item of some official document somewhere."

just shut the fuck up you stupid faggot, no one values your opinion and the world would be a better place if you o hang yourself

11/21/2006 2:14:36 PM

Quote :

"It's the "stick to the protocol" guys like b4k4 that gets civil rights trampled all over at times when humanity is a much better judge than a line item of some official document somewhere."

And when cops don't stick to the protocol, we bitch and moan and want them fired just as much. You can't have it both ways, either cops stick to their protocols like good little public servants or they get a lot of leeway to judge how to deal with any given situation.

Quote :

"According to some of the reports, the kid was walking out of the library on his own but stopped because the cops wouldn't take their hands off him. We all know what it feels like to be touched when we don't wanna be touched. The kid wants to feel like he's leaving the library on his own terms, and the cops wanna feel like they're the big, bad po-lice taking care of business. And, if having a taser makes them big and bad, then they're gonna win that one every time. But had they not been so concerned with their big badness, they coulda took care of business easier by just taking their hands off him and letting him leave the library."

No, that's not how it works.

He was in the library, the CSO asked for his ID. He refused to produce one. He was told that he would then have to leave. He refused. He was told he either needed to produce an ID or leave. He refused. This argument continued for several minutes. Note that the first time he was told he had to leave and he refused, he was comitting tresspass. The CSO called in for UCPD. UCPD came in and this is where the reports get muddled. UCPD, the college, the CSOs and some witnesses say UCPD asked again multiple times for ID or for him to leave. He refused so UCPD started to physically escort him out. Other witnesses and our Civil Rights Martyr say he was leaving under his own power when UCPD arrived. Here's my theory. UCPD arrived, and asked him to leave, he refused so UCPD started breaking out the cuffs, and Civil Rights Martyr realized "oh shit I'm in trouble" and grabbed up his bag and books and started for the door.

But life doesn't work that way. Once the cops have been called to escort you off the property, you don't get to leave on your own. You leave under escort and you'll leave at the cop's discretion because he may want to ask you some questions. He had his chances to leave and he blew them all. He doesn't get to decide he's going to leave after they're already arresting him.

Quote :

"You gotta do what the cops tell you to do, I know. But, if you go your whole life obeying the law and staying out of trouble, and then one day, a cop starts barking at you and threatening you, like you just shot and killed a man during a robbery or some shit, there's a chance you might be a little angry at the men in uniform accosting you. And the cops know that's how you're gonna feel, and it bothers them so they give you even more shit. After all, you shouldn't be angry with them. You should respect them. They're the police! And so the battle begins..."

No, you don't have to not be angry with them, you don't have to like them, you don't have to agree with them, but in the end, you have to go along with any lawful orders they give you. The reason being, they're the cops, they have the law and the government on their side, and last but not least, right or wrong they will win. No civil rights battle was ever succesfully fought on the street with the beat cop, it's always done in the courts and in the legislature, and for a good reason, because cops aren't there to make the law.

Quote :

"By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of those cops hates seeing all the brown kids in college while he's stuck being a cop whose main job is cleaning up drunk college kid vomit. I also wouldn't be surprised if at least one of those cops genuinely believed, in his poor, pathetic mind, that he was fighting in the war on terror."

And I wouldn't be suprised if this punk was some moron with a chip on his shoulder who wanted to stage the whole thing to prove a political point which is now being lost in the media frenzy since he pulled the race card and didn't realize that he might actually lose.

BTW, for reference, when I first saw the video and didn't get a good look at the guy, I figured he was some over privaledged white suburban kid. My opinion on the cops actions was the same then as it is now so don't try to pretend race is factoring into my opinions here.

11/21/2006 3:35:11 PM

You're always right man. You're always right.

11/21/2006 3:53:27 PM

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: BTW, for reference, when I first saw the video and didn't get a good look at the guy, I figured he was some over privaledged white suburban kid. My opinion on the cops actions was the same then as it is now so don't try to pretend race is factoring into my opinions here."

I really don't care. Thanks for letting me know though...?

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: No, you don't have to not be angry with them, you don't have to like them, you don't have to agree with them, but in the end, you have to go along with any lawful orders they give you. The reason being, they're the cops, they have the law and the government on their side, and last but not least, right or wrong they will win. No civil rights battle was ever succesfully fought on the street with the beat cop, it's always done in the courts and in the legislature, and for a good reason, because cops aren't there to make the law."

Yeah, I already said all that. Nice job on making it look like you were dressing me down.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: But life doesn't work that way. Once the cops have been called to escort you off the property, you don't get to leave on your own. You leave under escort and you'll leave at the cop's discretion because he may want to ask you some questions. He had his chances to leave and he blew them all. He doesn't get to decide he's going to leave after they're already arresting him."

We don't know that's what happened. We do know that the cops opted to be big and bad, like I said. They could have let him leave the library, but they wanted him to do it their way. They're cops, and they want to be obeyed. But had they not been so concerned with their big badness, they coulda took care of business easier by just taking their hands off him and letting him leave the library.

Just the way you word your posts reveals your personal big badness, 1337 b4k4. "Oh, you had your chance, but you blew it. You don't get to leave. You're my bitch now!"

[Edited on November 21, 2006 at 4:35 PM. Reason : sss]

11/21/2006 4:34:45 PM

im blinded by the fact that most security guards are assholes to begin with.

11/21/2006 4:37:39 PM

This is side-tracking, but I think it's hilarious how cops talk about how professional they are, but they don't show up to court. They're willing to mace a guy and put him in jail for a night but not to show up to court.

11/21/2006 4:56:31 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, I already said all that. Nice job on making it look like you were dressing me down. "

My apologies, your posts are always so all over the place, I never know what your point actually is.

Quote :

"We don't know that's what happened."

We do know that's what happened. CSO told him put up or leave and he refused. UCPD showed up to escort him off the property. Once the call was made to UCPD and UCPD showed up and he was still there, he no longer had a choice about leaving on his own.

Quote :

"They could have let him leave the library, but they wanted him to do it their way. They're cops, and they want to be obeyed."

Yes, they could have, but their job is to enforce the law, and the rules of the university. Here's a question since you ask me to see it through the kid's eyes, see it through the cops eyes:

A CSO (who is a student by the way, not a rent-a-cop) calls you in in regards to a suspicious person who refuses to show ID and refuses to leave the library despite a long standing university policy that only students are allowed in the library after 11. Note you do not know that this guy is a student, just that he's refusing to show ID, refusing to leave and beligerent with the CSO. Then when you finaly do show up and start to arrest him, that's when he thinks it would be a good time to leave. Are you going to just let him walk off without asking a few questions and finding out what's up? Are you going to let him leave without escort? I personaly wouldn't.

Quote :

"But had they not been so concerned with their big badness, they coulda took care of business easier by just taking their hands off him and letting him leave the library."

Would you? The kid is carrying on like a mad man and refusing to leave, refusing to show ID. Only when the cuffs come out does he decide it's time to go. Would you let him go without any further incident?

Quote :

"Just the way you word your posts reveals your personal big badness, 1337 b4k4. "Oh, you had your chance, but you blew it. You don't get to leave. You're my bitch now!" "

How many chances should this guy have had to leave before they arested him for tresspass? And once they began the process of aresting him, should he be allowed to walk away?

Quote :

"This is side-tracking, but I think it's hilarious how cops talk about how professional they are, but they don't show up to court. They're willing to mace a guy and put him in jail for a night but not to show up to court."

Would you show up to work on your day off after a 10-12 hour shift? Court times aren't scheduled around the cop.

[Edited on November 21, 2006 at 6:23 PM. Reason : adsf]

11/21/2006 6:22:58 PM

Quote :

"Only when the cuffs come out does he decide it's time to go. Would you let him go without any further incident?"

I think the tasing part is what people have a problem with. Just because he didn't want to leave until the cops showed didn't mean that kind of force was necessary.

Obviously we don't know the details though, so the police may have been justified in their actions. I can't say one way or the other. What I can say is that those subsequent tasings seem a little overboard.

[Edited on November 21, 2006 at 6:37 PM. Reason : ]

11/21/2006 6:36:11 PM

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: My apologies, your posts are always so all over the place, I never know what your point actually is."

I'm rarely a "point" person. I doubt I would enjoy classical debate. I share my thoughts, opinions, experiences, what I've learned, and sometimes what I've heard. Unfortunately, other people are point people, and they want me to have a point so they give me one, whether or not I actually agree with it.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Yes, they could have, but their job is to enforce the law, and the rules of the university."

I was going to comment on this earlier. It bothers me that the police pretend they have no discretion. They do, and they use it all the time, but when they're challenged about a decision, all of the sudden, it's "I enforce the law. It's my job. I don't have a choice."

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Yes, they could have, but their job is to enforce the law, and the rules of the university. Here's a question since you ask me to see it through the kid's eyes, see it through the cops eyes:"

I didn't ask you to see it through his eyes. I'm a touchy feely girl, but I'm not gonna bust out the pathos for a kid getting tasered in a library.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: A CSO (who is a student by the way, not a rent-a-cop) calls you in in regards to a suspicious person who refuses to show ID and refuses to leave the library despite a long standing university policy that only students are allowed in the library after 11. Note you do not know that this guy is a student, just that he's refusing to show ID, refusing to leave and beligerent with the CSO. Then when you finaly do show up and start to arrest him, that's when he thinks it would be a good time to leave. Are you going to just let him walk off without asking a few questions and finding out what's up? Are you going to let him leave without escort? I personaly wouldn't."

I would want to know what's up. In this situation, you'd have to be stupid not to know what's up. The kid made it clear that he was angry because he felt he was being discriminated against.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Would you? The kid is carrying on like a mad man and refusing to leave, refusing to show ID. Only when the cuffs come out does he decide it's time to go. Would you let him go without any further incident?"

The "mad man" thing amazes me. Do cops not realize what it's like to have your freedom threatened? Once I got cuffed, and I was completely sober. I'd been in cuffs for almost an hour while the cop taunted, mocked and disrespected my friends and I. I went a little mad and went off on a five-minute rant about everything under the Sun. In court, the cop helped me get the charges dropped, saying I was one of the craziest people he'd ever met and that I needed help the courts couldn't provide.

Most people can tell the difference between a man who is angry because he feels mistreated and a man who is a general threat to himself and the people around him. "Mad man" shouldn't be a surprise.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: How many chances should this guy have had to leave before they arested him for tresspass? And once they began the process of aresting him, should he be allowed to walk away?"

The kid claims he was already leaving when they approached him to escort him out. I can see how that could be confusing--is he leaving or is he going to another part of the library? Let's say you're right, he wasn't even leaving yet.

The point is that for some reason there are cops who manage these situations without using a taser, and there are others that just can't seem to get the hang of it. Why is that?

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Would you show up to work on your day off after a 10-12 hour shift? Court times aren't scheduled around the cop."

I would never volunteer to be a cop. I don't want to work a thankless job where I truly despise half my co-workers. But, if I was a cop, you better believe I'd show up to court.

[Edited on November 21, 2006 at 9:09 PM. Reason : ?]

11/21/2006 9:08:47 PM

Quote :

"I was going to comment on this earlier. It bothers me that the police pretend they have no discretion. They do, and they use it all the time, but when they're challenged about a decision, all of the sudden, it's "I enforce the law. It's my job. I don't have a choice." "

They do, and when they use their discretion in a way that people don't like or that gets someone hurt, people bitch and moan even if it was a reasonable decison and the policies get tightened.

Let's say for a moment they let this guy walk out. Used their discretion to let him leave without incident. What would the public response been if he assaulted a student on the way out? What if he went on to rape another student? Look at it this way, in a library where they have had problems with people raping students (hence the no non-students after 11 rule) is it not even slightly reasonable that a man who is refusing to show ID and refusing to leave, who then suddenly up and decides to leave might have been stalking a student? Remember when the cops showed up, they didn't know he was a student because he refused to show ID.

Quote :

"I would want to know what's up. In this situation, you'd have to be stupid not to know what's up. The kid made it clear that he was angry because he felt he was being discriminated against. "

The only thing I've seen that suggests he even hinted at that was demanding the CSO ID other people. Certainly screaming "Here's your fucking PATRIOT ACT. here's your fucking abuse of power" doesn't convey that you think you're being unfairly singled out because of your race.

Quote :

"The "mad man" thing amazes me. Do cops not realize what it's like to have your freedom threatened? Once I got cuffed, and I was completely sober. I'd been in cuffs for almost an hour while the cop taunted, mocked and disrespected my friends and I. I went a little mad and went off on a five-minute rant about everything under the Sun. In court, the cop helped me get the charges dropped, saying I was one of the craziest people he'd ever met and that I needed help the courts couldn't provide. Most people can tell the difference between a man who is angry because he feels mistreated and a man who is a general threat to himself and the people around him. "Mad man" shouldn't be a surprise."

Did you listen to the video at all? My first thought was the kid was all kinds of fucked up. And the guy's freedom wasn't threatened. He had to leave the library because he violated the rules. That's hardly threatening his freedom.

Quote :

"The point is that for some reason there are cops who manage these situations without using a taser, and there are others that just can't seem to get the hang of it. Why is that? "

Because some cops feel more at ease getting into a physical altercation than others. There were 3 solutions to this:

1) Let the kid walk out. Not an ideal solution

2) Force the kid out

3) Have the kid leave voluntarily under escort

Since 3 wasn't happening and neither was 1, that leaves 2. Quesition: How do you force a 200 pound limp man who is ranting and making a scene (and asking if he's to be the only martyr) out of a room, down a some stairs and outside? If you had a choice between trying to physicaly wrestle him out, beat him out, threaten him with a gun, spray him with pepper spray or zap him with a taser, what would your choice be?

Quote :

" But, if I was a cop, you better believe I'd show up to court. "

Most of them try, but you can't always, sometimes you're working a beat, sometimes you're just plain exhausted. I know I'm sure as hell not going to show up at court at 8 AM after working third shift just to see that a pot head goes to jail.

11/21/2006 9:33:16 PM

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Did you listen to the video at all? My first thought was the kid was all kinds of fucked up. And the guy's freedom wasn't threatened. He had to leave the library because he violated the rules. That's hardly threatening his freedom."

Being placed in handcuffs is most definitely a threat against a person's freedom. You know that.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Because some cops feel more at ease getting into a physical altercation than others. There were 3 solutions to this: 1) Let the kid walk out. Not an ideal solution 2) Force the kid out 3) Have the kid leave voluntarily under escort Since 3 wasn't happening and neither was 1, that leaves 2. Quesition: How do you force a 200 pound limp man who is ranting and making a scene (and asking if he's to be the only martyr) out of a room, down a some stairs and outside? If you had a choice between trying to physicaly wrestle him out, beat him out, threaten him with a gun, spray him with pepper spray or zap him with a taser, what would your choice be?"

The kid claims he was leaving, but the cop wouldn't take his hands off him. Number 3 definitely seems to be an option if the cop had just stopped touching him. Again, that's a simple people skill that cops should be able to understand.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: The only thing I've seen that suggests he even hinted at that was demanding the CSO ID other people. Certainly screaming "Here's your fucking PATRIOT ACT. here's your fucking abuse of power" doesn't convey that you think you're being unfairly singled out because of your race."

Demanding that the CSO ID other people obviously reveals that the guy felt like he was being singled out based on his race. No "hinting" about it. That's why I said "you'd have to be stupid not to know what's up." Are you stupid?

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Let's say for a moment they let this guy walk out. Used their discretion to let him leave without incident. What would the public response been if he assaulted a student on the way out? What if he went on to rape another student? Look at it this way, in a library where they have had problems with people raping students (hence the no non-students after 11 rule) is it not even slightly reasonable that a man who is refusing to show ID and refusing to leave, who then suddenly up and decides to leave might have been stalking a student? Remember when the cops showed up, they didn't know he was a student because he refused to show ID."

So do the police treat everybody like a potential stalker/rapist?

[Edited on November 21, 2006 at 9:48 PM. Reason : sss]

11/21/2006 9:47:40 PM

He deserved it.

[NEW]

11/21/2006 10:46:28 PM

Quote :

"Being placed in handcuffs is most definitely a threat against a person's freedom. You know that. "

He was ranting before they put him in handcuffs.

Quote :

"The kid claims he was leaving, but the cop wouldn't take his hands off him. Number 3 definitely seems to be an option if the cop had just stopped touching him. Again, that's a simple people skill that cops should be able to understand. "

Right, if they were going to let him go on his own. Obviously they wanted to question him first, hence they were trying to stop him. Like I said, once the cops showed up, he doesn't get a choice to leave his way anymore, he had that chance and then he went and broke the law.

Quote :

"Demanding that the CSO ID other people obviously reveals that the guy felt like he was being singled out based on his race. No "hinting" about it. That's why I said "you'd have to be stupid not to know what's up." Are you stupid? "

Why does that suggest he's upset because he thinks he's being singled out because of his race? Maybe he feels he's just being singled out in general? Maybe he just wants to give the CSO a hard time. Given is inability to convey that he supposedly couldn't get up (by you know, maybe saying, "I can't get up") it doesn't seem likely to me that he conveyed his feelings either.

Quote :

"So do the police treat everybody like a potential stalker/rapist? "

How would you treat a screaming beligerent 200 pound man refusing to leave the library and refusing to show ID?

11/21/2006 10:50:45 PM

Quote :

"How would you treat a screaming beligerent 200 pound man refusing to leave the library and refusing to show ID?"

I certianly wouldn't initiate the violence, if he wasn't a threat, I don't see any reason why I'd need to try to hurt him.

11/21/2006 11:00:01 PM

It isn't a cop's job to punish a criminal. Once the guy was in cuffs they could very well have dragged him out on a stretcher, but I see no reason that they should be allowed to shock someone into compliance. This is a horrible abuse of power regardless of whether that guy was a criminal or not.

11/21/2006 11:34:00 PM

Quote :

" How would you treat a screaming beligerent 200 pound man refusing to leave the library and refusing to show ID? "

If he was screaming and belligerent because of my idiocy, I would have probably let him go.

11/21/2006 11:45:14 PM

My two cents here:

I've been stunned before in training. At the time I was 235lbs... and I went down hard. You do NOT recover from that shit instantly like some people think. Your muscles are spasming for minutes after and you cannot stand up. The legs just don't respond right at first.

I've read a lot more about this situation and read about people who knew the person in question. He was a troublemaker, looking for a fight etc. I don't think there's any question that he was refusing the command of student cops. I have a feeling the student cops either were being jerks or this guy was being a jerk.

Once the real cops came in he was already angry, irrirated, and asking him to leave wouldn't work no matter who's fault it was. At this point everyone agrees he was resisting campus police putting their hands on him. Resisting arrest. And thus 1 taser is acceptable. You get hit by a tazer you drop

There are supposed reports that the tasers they were using were low voltage ones and that seems completely possible to me since the cops are still holding him when he's shocked a couple times. The two tasers I've been hit with (albeit 12 years ago) were a stun stick, and the electrodes using the special vest (so you didn't get stuck by the points). Both of them would make me want to comply with whatever you wanted.

They could have easily handcuffed him and since there were 3 officers that shouldn't be hard to overpower him. Instead they chose to try to force him to submit, and leave walking by tasering him more. heh... that just isn't possible.

Also, if in that situation I would have done the same thing. Someone is tasering my ass 4-5 times I'm sure as hell not leaving with them. What the fuck will they do when watchful eyes aren't around? I would be screaming for help to be honest simply because if I fought back myself I'd be guilty of resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer.

I have to admit, if I was there I would have jumped in to help him by preventing the cops from taking him away, not fighting the cops themselves. I know the consequences of helping someone but by the end of the video there's no way I would have let those officers take him. I would have held him until the real police arrived. I would proclaim this loudly.

Of course they might stun me, and while I wouldn't be able to fight them physically I sure as hell could stop them from taking him out of the library.

11/22/2006 8:27:29 AM

Quote :

"I would have held him until the real police arrived."

Pretty sure UCLA is like NCSU and their security IS real police.

11/22/2006 10:21:39 AM

This seems like an appropriate place to put this:

Quote :

"ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- The niece of a 92-year-old woman shot to death by police said her aunt likely had reason to shoot three narcotics investigators as they stormed her house. Police insisted the officers did everything right before entering the home Tuesday evening, despite suggestions from the woman's neighbors and relatives that it was a case of mistaken identity. The woman, Kathryn Johnston, was the only resident in the house at the time and had lived there for about 17 years, Assistant Chief Alan Dreher said. The officers had a legal warrant, "knocked and announced" before they forced open the door and were justified in shooting once fired upon, he said. Sarah Dozier, the niece, told WAGA-TV that there were never drugs at the house. (Watch niece's fury at police shooting ) "My aunt was in good health. I'm sure she panicked when they kicked that door down," Dozier said. "There was no reason they had to go in there and shoot her down like a dog." As the plainclothes Atlanta police officers approached the house about 7 p.m., a woman inside started shooting, striking each of them, said Officer Joe Cobb, a police spokesman. One was hit in the arm, another in a thigh and the third in a shoulder. The officers were taken to a hospital for treatment, and all three were conscious and alert, police said. The Rev. Markel Hutchins, a civil rights leader, said Johnston's family deserves an apology. "Of the police brutality cases we've had, this is the most egregious because of the woman's age," Hutchins said. Hutchins said he would try to meet with Atlanta Police Chief Richard Pennington and would also meet with lawyers. "

Do you guys think its ok to shoot the person who shoots at you when you're executing a legal warrant? I know you guys hate cops, but what did these ones do wrong?

11/22/2006 5:27:24 PM

If she was shooting at them, they had the right to shoot back.

11/22/2006 5:30:36 PM

I'm amazed that she was able to hit all three of them

11/22/2006 5:34:56 PM

^^^Article's not adding up:

Quote :

"The officers had a legal warrant, "knocked and announced" before they forced open the door and were justified in shooting once fired upon, he said."

Quote :

"As the plainclothes Atlanta police officers approached the house about 7 p.m., a woman inside started shooting, striking each of them, said Officer Joe Cobb, a police spokesman."

Were they shot as they approached or after they forced open the door?

As far as how they could have done things differently...they could have worn uniforms, and after they knocked, they could have waited a bit for her to come to the door. Old people can have trouble hearing...there's a chance she wasn't able to understand what they were saying but instead just heard a bunch of yelling.

If drug dealers had been using her home at or against her will, she may have thought the men were gang members, not police officers.

[Edited on November 22, 2006 at 5:36 PM. Reason : ?]

11/22/2006 5:36:17 PM

Quote :

"Police insisted the officers did everything right before entering the home Tuesday evening, despite suggestions from the woman's neighbors and relatives that it was a case of mistaken identity."

They could have investigated that part too. I'm sure they get a lot of liars, but a little investigating wouldn't have hurt.

11/22/2006 5:40:59 PM

Quote :

"Pretty sure UCLA is like NCSU and their security IS real police."

bwhahahaha, hardly

11/23/2006 9:53:26 AM

they're gonna start tasing people for being in the computer labs afterhours.

11/23/2006 9:57:32 AM

Quote :

"UCLA Acting Chancellor Norman Abrams Announces Independent Investigation of the Incident at Powell Library Nov. 17, 2006 UCLA Acting Chancellor Norman Abrams announced today that an independent investigation will be conducted of the incident in Powell Library in which a UCLA student was taken into custody by campus police. "After careful deliberation, I have decided to accept the recommendation of Police Chief Karl Ross and my senior advisors to establish an independent investigation of this incident," Abrams said. "We have selected Merrick Bobb, who is widely recognized for his integrity and independence in such sensitive matters, to lead this investigation." Abrams said Bobb is one of the nation's leading authorities on police conduct. He served as a staff attorney for the Christopher Commission, which examined Los Angeles Police Department policies, and also has served as an independent monitor of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. The UCPD also will continue its investigation, Abrams said. "The police department investigation will be speedy and fair," he said. "I have complete respect for, and confidence in, UCPD. But there are times when it is helpful to turn to an outside review as well." Abrams said in the past two days his office has been contacted by many students, alumni and parents to express their concern about Tuesday night's incident. "Student safety and treatment are of paramount concern at UCLA," Abrams said. "I am committed, as well, to our country's system of due process, which counsels that we not rush to judgment. A number of witnesses have already stepped forward. We plan to move ahead promptly with a complete and unbiased review. I am confident that the review process that is being undertaken will allow us to reach a fair, appropriate and just conclusion." Karl Ross, the UCLA police chief, said, "While I am confident of our ability to perform a fair and thorough investigation, I am also cognizant of the need for a transparent review.""

12/2/2006 1:05:24 PM

bttt for exam time

12/11/2006 7:21:24 AM

on a side note, getting hit with a taser, SUCKS

12/11/2006 9:27:49 AM

As much as everyone is arguing the issue of whether or not the UCPD were justified/right in handling the situation I'm suprised people are missing the underlying point of all of this.

The kid wanted to act as a martyr. This is obvious because he cried "Am I the only martyr?"

The cops wanted to remove him, without being rushed by all the other students, so they continued to show a strong front. As much as everyone wants to argue, they were well within their rights per the UCLA policy. **Note: I am not condoning this behavior

The larger issue here is not limited to this incident. The underlying point is that this was just an example of the direction our country is headed. It was "lawful" for the police to act in the way they did. That does not make it right. When the laws reflect a humanitarian, fair, and free society the enforcers of that law will also reflect these ideas.

I would not consider myself a liberal person, I (although now regrettably) voted for the current administration. But no matter who you voted for in the last election or who you support politically, it is our civil responsibility to change these laws/lines of thought. This does not happen by just arguing amongst ourselves on TWW (even though it is entertaining).

Thoughts?

12/11/2006 11:01:08 AM

Violence (and that's exactly what police engage in when they have to restrain you or force you to comply) is never pretty. Does anyone think the UCLA incident would have been any different in terms of community backlash if it went something like this:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4998ef810b

12/11/2006 11:36:06 AM

Oh and FYI:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-taser21nov21,0,1459046.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Quote :

"The UCLA police officer videotaped last week using a Taser gun on a student also shot a homeless man at a campus study hall room three years ago and was earlier recommended for dismissal in connection with an alleged assault on fraternity row, authorities said."

12/18/2006 8:05:14 PM

Anyone know what ever happened with this?

1/10/2007 7:01:48 PM

People stopped caring.

1/10/2007 9:32:33 PM

Man, if this happens at state I won't just stand and watch...amma be pissedddddddd

1/10/2007 9:47:58 PM

depends on if the person deserved it or not

1/10/2007 9:49:34 PM