Quote :

"um...i heard clinton described as articulate and well spoken many times"

cause, everyone knows Clinton was our first black President.

Quote :

" Even though he was inducted to the African American Hall of Fame...."

case in point.

2/9/2007 1:14:07 AM

Quote :

"jesus christ wtf is wrong with society "

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=460523

2/9/2007 1:17:26 AM

Quote :

"HEY GUYS, I TOOK CULTURAL ANTHROPOLOGY LANGUAGE IS SUPPOSED TO CHANGE LOOK AT ME"

once again, guth thinks everyone's knowledge on a subject matter is strictly limited to a single course in college.

2/9/2007 1:28:06 AM

Repost for this page:

Quote :

"In response to the original post, while I thought Biden's comment was definitely condescending, Bush's comment (based on the quote posted by Red Guard) doesn't automatically come across as condescending to me. This "speaks so well" thing that people complained about with Colin Powell and Obama is being blown out of proportion. In my opinion, both guys have an energy and genuineness that's lacking in most politicians, white or black. Most others seem stiff and fake. So while there is sometimes racism lurking beneath, people shouldn't automatically get on someone's case because they chose a hot-button word to make a legitimate compliment."

2/9/2007 1:32:49 AM

Quote :

"And, by the way, I have never heard a person speak like that. Ever. Your impression is way off."

Clearly you've never worked in durham. I hear people talk like that all the time.

2/9/2007 8:27:28 AM

and once again nutsmacker tries to look smarter than everyone, but just says shit everyone already knows and ends up looking like an idiot

2/9/2007 8:51:12 AM

Quote :

"wtf is wrong with society"

This reminds me of when the Iran president wrote Washington a letter. Everyone kept going over and over it as a political ploy, and I was like "it doesn't matter political ploy or not

IT'S PROPER MANNERS TO WRITE BACK."

Assholes. If the black man's articulate, he's articulate, don't be raggin on my GWB for that shit.

2/9/2007 10:46:49 AM

Quote :

"Language doesn't work that way. People don't applaud themselves for speaking a certain way. It's not like there's a get-together where people decide to speak a certain way and then drink beers to celebrate the new changes they've made."

They don't have meetings to decide on slang words like everyone else? How do they manage?!

2/9/2007 2:49:53 PM

Quote :

"Anyone can be well spoken, regardless of accent. Proper grammar is an important sign that someone is educated, at least to some extent. How many regional dialects actually put a heavy emphasis on horrible grammar and sounding uneducated? "

I would like to point out that ebonics, like any other dialect, has specific grammatical rules, and there actually is no emphasis being put on making it sound uneducated. It only sounds uneducated because people view the people speaking it differently.

On top of that most black people can speak "properly" in the right situations, if they wanted to. But most people only reserve this language for job interviews and speaking with important people, not when they're taking your order at Burger King or chatting with their friends.

And there have also been studies (in the field of linguistics) to show that the dialect someone speaks has no bearing on their intelligence. Just look at all the rednecks in MAE/CE here at state that sound like backwoods retards, but are probably reasonably intelligent people.

I personally would love for all people to speak more clearly, from the idiot rednecks that permeate NC (these people are almost a majority) to all the black people that have wal-mart spinners on their '92 Dodge Caravan.

2/9/2007 3:07:57 PM

you all need to get off the linguistics breakdown and realize that in the real world that shit does matter

2/9/2007 3:17:00 PM

Quote :

"you all need to get off the linguistics breakdown and realize that in the real world that shit does matter "

What are you trying to say matters?

Quote :

"and once again nutsmacker tries to look smarter than everyone, but just says shit everyone already knows and ends up looking like an idiot"

Really guth? What did I say that you already know? In reality, it is you are an idiot. Everyone of your soap box posts contains nothing more than two lines in which you attempt to look cooler than everyone else. Why don't you grow up a little.

2/9/2007 4:07:46 PM

^^^ Ebonics is as contrived as "proper" English, and we've established (for the purposes of this thread) that one dialect is not superior to another. That being said . . .

The purpose of a spoken language is to communicate effectively with your audience. Thus, the dialect used by someone in inner city Detroit will be largely different from someone in the suburbs just a few miles away. Each works within their community, however, certain dialects are more intelligible to a wider audience than others. Those approaching "proper" English would be the most intelligible to the widest number of people. Thugrish isn't.* (That was a sentence fragment, but it got my point across, so it works, right?)

Barak Obama is articulate because he can communicate his ideas effectively into the minds of a broad audience. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, both intelligent men, tend to be bombastic and alienate those outside of the targeted audience they're pandering to. For this reason, no matter what their word choice and their adherence to grammatical strictures, they are not articulate.

Finally, part of the reason that black America gets stereotyped as being ignorant is because large portions of them celebrate it. My high school was a pretty racially diverse place and I had both white and black friends. Many of the black friends in my advanced placement classes were ostracized for their achievement. Now, every nerd will tell you that being smart will get you picked on, but the only people who I have seen define intelligence as outside of the norms for their race were black. That my friends, is some ignorant ass shit. Now, in all fairness, white people do some pretty dumb-ass stuff . . . but we don't define ourselves (on the whole) by our racial identity. There are legitimate reasons, but as long as a large portion of black America self-define themselves by their race, they should not be surprised if the rest of the nation does so too.

*It has been pointed out that the sentence fragment "Thugrish isn't" should be prefaced by a semi-colon and not a period. I'm leaving it as it is to prove my point, but that would be correct.

[Edited on February 9, 2007 at 4:29 PM. Reason : Mr. Joshua]

2/9/2007 4:09:18 PM

Quote :

"In reality, it is you are an idiot. "

lollers

2/9/2007 4:25:00 PM

Quote :

"Finally, part of the reason that black America gets stereotyped as being ignorant is because large portions of them celebrate it. My high school was a pretty racially diverse place and I had both white and black friends. Many of the black friends in my advanced placement classes were ostracized for their achievement. Now, every nerd will tell you that being smart will get you picked on, but the only people who I have seen define intelligence as outside of the norms for their race were black. That my friends, is some ignorant ass shit. Now, in all fairness, white people do some pretty dumb-ass stuff . . . but we don't define ourselves (on the whole) by our racial identity. There are legitimate reasons, but as long as a large portion of black America self-define themselves by their race, they should not be surprised if the rest of the nation does so too. "

This is something Obama talked about in his speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention. I remember him saying that blacks need to stop looking at a black kid reading books and say "he's acting white".

2/9/2007 4:29:42 PM

Bill Cosby did too, and was roundly criticized by many "black leaders". Black America has to take a long hard look at itself and decide the message it wants its "leadership" to convey. Right now, its not a particularly good one. The refusal of the Black Congressional Congress to allow a white member to join is a perfect example of the "give us what we want and leave us alone" attitude that turns off much of "middle America"

I'm also convinced that its far easier for the white establishment to patronizingly pander to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton than deal with a truly independent and conviction-driven black man such as Malcolm X.

Barak Obama strikes such a powerful cord in white voters because he has a positive, unifying and well communicated message. (Truth be told, he really hasn't gone into much policy detail, but he has a catchy tune even if the words are missing). Ironically, Hillary polls far better among black voters than Obama, who is much more popular among white voters.

[Edited on February 9, 2007 at 4:43 PM. Reason : *]

2/9/2007 4:43:12 PM

^ Bill Cosby caught hell from the black community for saying the same thing.

Quote :

"Brown Versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person’s problem. We’ve got to take the neighborhood back. (applause) We’ve got to go in there. Just forget telling your child to go to the Peace Corps. It’s right around the corner. (laughter) It’s standing on the corner. It can’t speak English. It doesn’t want to speak English. I can’t even talk the way these people talk. “Why you ain’t where you is go, ra,” I don’t know who these people are. And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk (laughter). Then I heard the father talk. This is all in the house. You used to talk a certain way on the corner and you got into the house and switched to English. Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can’t land a plane with “why you ain’t…” You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth. There is no Bible that has that kind of language. Where did these people get the idea that they’re moving ahead on this? Well, they know they’re not, they’re just hanging out in the same place, five or six generations sitting in the projects when you’re just supposed to stay there long enough to get a job and move out. Now look, I’m telling you. It’s not what they’re doing to us. It’s what we’re not doing. 50 percent drop out. Look, we’re raising our own ingrown immigrants. These people are fighting hard to be ignorant. There’s no English being spoken, and they’re walking and they’re angry. Oh God, they’re angry and they have pistols and they shoot and they do stupid things. And after they kill somebody, they don’t have a plan. Just murder somebody. Boom. Over what? A pizza? And then run to the poor cousin’s house. They sit there and the cousin says “What are you doing here?” “I just killed somebody, man.” “What?” “I just killed somebody, I’ve got to stay here.” “No, you don’t.” “Well, give me some money, I’ll go…” “Where are you going?” “North Carolina.” Everybody wanted to go to North Carolina. But the police know where you’re going because your cousin has a record."

2/9/2007 4:43:34 PM

What's the over/under time-wise on someone notable in the Congressional Black Caucus/NAACP/notable public black figure/etc. labeling Obama an "Uncle Tom"? And who do you think would do it? (much like the criticism that came from Cosby's remarks)

If he's in a Democratic nomination fight that's close with Hillary, it [B]will[/B] come, from someone that supports her.

2/9/2007 4:51:33 PM

he will not be referred to as an uncle tom. bank on it.

2/9/2007 4:53:59 PM

He will be, bank on it. The real questions are:
1) who will say it first?
2) will it actually stick?

2/9/2007 4:55:31 PM

Quote :

"Barak Obama is articulate because he can communicate his ideas effectively into the minds of a broad audience. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, both intelligent men, tend to be bombastic and alienate those outside of the targeted audience they're pandering to. For this reason, no matter what their word choice and their adherence to grammatical strictures, they are not articulate."

Actually, Jesse Jackson is an amazing speaker. He's eloquent. He's graduated beyond articulate.

2/9/2007 5:16:36 PM

^stop blowing him.

2/9/2007 5:32:15 PM

Quote :

"Actually, Jesse Jackson is an amazing speaker."

No doubt sister, no doubt. I've heard him speak and he can energize a supportive crowd with the best of them. However, he is, quite frankly, a demagouge who I have seen lose his composure and / or resort to rather tired rhetoric when effectively challenged.

2/9/2007 5:51:20 PM

Quote :

"What did I say that you already know?"

all your shit on page 2

2/9/2007 5:59:00 PM

aren't you special then.

when was the last time you actually contributed to the soap box?

2/9/2007 6:08:41 PM

^^^^
1. I'll blow who I want.
2. I'm not a big Jesse Jackson fan.

2/9/2007 7:54:32 PM

This thread is so full of stupid I'm almost astounded

2/9/2007 8:00:29 PM

Quote :

"1. I'll blow who I want."

2/9/2007 8:02:20 PM

They're just jealous nobody ever called them articulate.

2/9/2007 8:45:03 PM

Quote :

"This "speaks so well" thing that people complained about with Colin Powell and Obama is being blown out of proportion. In my opinion, both guys have an energy and genuineness that's lacking in most politicians, white or black. Most others seem stiff and fake."

I'll go one better. Even Colin Powell strikes me as stiff and fake when he speaks.

2/9/2007 9:19:05 PM

As far as Biden goes: while I don't think it was intentional, I can see how some people could be offended by what he said. I think they need a tougher skin, but they have a point.

As for Bush, the guy can't win no matter what he does. First of all he was asked a question about Obama, which is the only reason he said anything at all. Second he responed by complimenting Obama, not insulting him, but that's not okay because he's George W. Bush. If Bush said Obama was smart, he'd be implying that black people are stupid. If Bush said Obama was hard working, he'd be implying black people are lazy. If Bush said Obama was a good man, he'd be implyng black people are evil.

I'll let everyone in on a little secret: the way you compliment someone is by noting their positive atributes. That's what a compliment is. So if a guy is well spoken, even if everyone knows it, one way you could compliment him is by saing he is articulate.

What everone is missing in all of this is what it says about Obama. The fact that guys like Biden and Bush who work with Obama regularly can think of nothing else substantive to say about him other than that he's articulate means he either has no other positive atributes, or they know as little about the guy as the rest of us.

Here's another one I'll bet you did'nt think of: if a black politician had made either of the disputed comments, no one would have thought twice about it. But because these two were white, then their comments must have been racially motivated. Oh, I forgot, that kind of racism is perfectly acceptable.

2/14/2007 3:17:42 AM

Quote :

"As for Bush, the guy can't win no matter what he does."

Seriously, he was asked a question about a Democratic candidate for president, and he tried to tactfully pay the guy a complement, and all he gets is shit. What is he going to say "Hell I'm gonna vote for him!"?

If you going to read racism into this statement:

Quote :

"Bush: “Oh, I don’t know. He ain’t — look — he hasn’t got elected yet. He ain’t even got the party’s nomination either. He’s an attractive guy, he’s articulate, I’ve been impressed with him, I’ve seen him in person, but he’s got a long way to go to be president.”"

you have to stop being so sensitive about this crap.

2/14/2007 4:28:44 PM