Quote :

"no one is pointing out hypocrisy simply because they have a need for truth, justice, and honor in our celebrities. you aren't being altruistic. it's basically ad hominem attack on someone. if his arguments about global warming have merit, they do. if they don't, they don't."

The masses, as a whole, follow leaders, not ideas, and they merely gawk at celebrities. I'm arguing that if Gore belives this, he either needs to lead or get out of the way. Were he to use his house to try out new technology then he'd be an inspiration, as it is, he's a blowhard.

2/27/2007 11:51:45 AM

Quote :

"he's a blowhard."

Gore needs to reduce his blowhard footprint.

2/27/2007 1:18:18 PM

Quote :

"A lot of people smarter than I am are predicting that most conflicts in the coming hundred years will be fought not over large tracts of land, but over small pockets of land rich in one natural resource or another."

Eh, in a hundred, energy technologies will almost certainly has advanced beyond the need for oil or the like. Nanotech solar power looks very promising. We should have decent fusion power plants within fifty years.

Oil will be old news, at least for the First World.

2/27/2007 1:57:26 PM

Quote :

"a plane ride in his private jet from Los Angeles to Washington DC uses the same amount of gas as an average Hummer uses in a year "

hmm. . .

[Edited on February 27, 2007 at 2:46 PM. Reason : .]

2/27/2007 2:41:03 PM

^^ By the end, sure . . . but I said over

It'll go beyond energy though. As anyone who works construction can tell you, copper prices have gone through the roof recently. As a general rule, industrial commodity prices are increasing across the board. China will be the economic power in the coming years, but I'm arguing that this is an opportunity for the United States to take the lead on renewable resources and efficiency. Not withdrawing from the global market but making better use of our resources both domestic and imported.

2/27/2007 2:47:39 PM

Honestly, if you believing that the Global Warming religion is about the "future of our children," then you've been had. This isn't about the future; this is about trying to take away our freedoms and liberties.

The crowd that is saying hey, everyone needs to cut back on energy, IS the blame America first crowd. They think that America is what's wrong with this world. They can't stand the fact that people are living their lives the way they want to; they need the government to put restrictions on things so people are forced to live the way that they want to live.

But, wait? What? The person who is demanding that we give up our luxurious lifestyles is using far more energy than the average American? What a shock. Hell, it's so shocking that one might be able to make the claim that Gore doesn't even care about the environment, but rather he's clinging to the one issue that he thinks can keep him in the spotlight. It's okay though, because he buys carbon offsets. Carbon offsets, lol - you're essentially paying someone for the pollution that they didn't do.

Now, I don't have a problem with Gore living the way he does. It's his money. My problem is that he's telling everyone else to cut back, and his only defense is that he's paying a ton of money to someone, in an attempt to take back the damage that he's already done. What about those of us that can't afford Carbon offsets? Gore tells us to simply live under our means. But because Gore has tons of money, he doesn't have to - he'll simply pay it off. This is such a fucking joke and a disgrace to America, those of you that honestly buy this garbage need to take a look around.

2/27/2007 3:30:59 PM

what a new and interesting thought!

2/27/2007 3:33:42 PM

Sober, can you save your high school commentary for the shit threads in chit chat? I think everyone in TSB can see the guy has 30 posts and didn't notice a 14 page thread about this, we don't need you to add your tripe shit, especially when 50% of your content in here is indeed that.

2/27/2007 3:48:32 PM

i'm starting to see the arguments for the "war against terror" and the "greenhouse scare" overlap

they're both chicken little-esque in fashion and rely heavily on preemptive strikes before we're all swimming in post apocalyptic ash

the interesting thing is that the 'sides' seem to flip-flop in reasoning when asked about the other issue

2/27/2007 3:49:58 PM

indeed

but most soapbox posters don't let a few contradictions stop them from arguing the party mantra until their face turns blue

2/27/2007 3:55:11 PM

yeah. unfortunately.

2/27/2007 3:55:40 PM

Quote :

"until their face turns blue"

or red, depending on their party affiliation.

2/27/2007 3:56:18 PM

I've posted in the other thread, but someone said that discussion of the "Gore's house uses 20x more energy" issue didn't belong there, so I decided to post in the thread that was made specifically for that topic. My bad, I guess.

2/27/2007 4:17:52 PM

Quote :

"This is such a fucking joke and a disgrace to America, those of you that honestly buy this garbage need to take a look around."

This phrase gets thrown around way too much.



And, on a side note, my motivation for wanting to see new innovations and changes in our energy consumption has little to do with the environment. I never understood nationalism growing up, but in these past fews year, as I've learned in more detail the history of the USA, I've become more and more proud of the US. I like the idea of being a part of the best. And I believe that by being progressive on these issues and a few others, we can justifiably sit atop our high horse and tell the rest of the world to suck our dick when they come begging for shit.

[Edited on February 27, 2007 at 10:18 PM. Reason : sss]

2/27/2007 10:17:30 PM

^nah dude, you're spot on. GG on the commentary.

2/27/2007 10:18:52 PM

Thank you!

LOL

2/27/2007 10:22:51 PM

^

Quote :

"I just don't see most folks adopting shit without the government stepping in and forcing certain changes onto us, via more regulation of business and development or direct regulation of individual citizens."

BridgetSPK

Clearly, you choose to place your faith in government; I choose to place my faith in the people. Government is not the only way for great things to be accomplished--nor is it the best way.

Quote :

"it's funny to see all these libertarians/republicans/conservatives Al Gore basically use class warfare as their argument now."

sarijoul

Fixed it for you.

2/27/2007 11:46:43 PM

Quote :

"hooksaw: Clearly, you choose to place your faith in government; I choose to place my faith in the people. Government is not the only way for great things to be accomplished--nor is it the best way."

I love a good false dilemma!

2/28/2007 8:44:13 AM

AHAHA i read this, like most politicians he does the whole "do what I say, but I'll do whatever the fuck I want"

Quote :

"and to what end? it doesn't seem he's going to run for office in the near future. it seems to me that this is one way of subtely discrediting conservation measures by discrediting the face that we put with them."

no, some green tech is actually significantly cheaper, I purposely got a higher efficiency power supply for my computer to cut down on it's draw, and a LCD (less power usage). There are some very cool buildings with all sorts of energy saving tech and other green tech.

Quote :

"The masses, as a whole, follow leaders, not ideas, and they merely gawk at celebrities. I'm arguing that if Gore believes this, he either needs to lead or get out of the way."

that's a sad way to look at things, unfortunately I think you're right

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 8:53 AM. Reason : d]

2/28/2007 8:48:20 AM

he does what he says

2/28/2007 8:50:35 AM

Quote :

"How many sq. ft is his house? I would bet his energy/sq. ft. isn't more than the average house."

221,000/10,000 = 22.1 kwhr/sqft

for that to be "average" a typical household using the average 10,656 kwhr house would be 483 sqft....

and if you think that you must think your dorm room must be palatial.... a better average would be 1000 - 2000 sqft resulting in a use of 10.6 kwhr/sqft - 5.3 kwhr/sqft


both of which are significantly lower than Al Gore's 22.1 kwhr/sqft usage rate

2/28/2007 9:07:03 AM

^ gg Arab.

2/28/2007 9:10:37 AM

the moment I read this I thought "I know not too many people are good at math but fuck, that's not right at all..."

2/28/2007 9:12:28 AM

hahaha, I was just too lazy to do the stats for myself.

2/28/2007 9:19:24 AM

Just to add to the discussion, I'll mention that there is a possibility he inherited this difficult house from his rich father. Old houses are tougher than new ones.

2/28/2007 9:39:46 AM

So, in his movie, when he was saying that we all should cut consumption of energy or we'll all die in freak acts of nature, did he add a clause "unless you inherited a house?"

I didn't think so.


weak argument.

2/28/2007 9:42:36 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

2/28/2007 9:47:19 AM

Quote :

"Then there is the century-old mansion?yes, a white house?at the end of a gaslighted driveway in a quiet, moneyed section of Nashville"

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101021125-390894,00.html

So his mansion is over 100 years old. That makes a considerable difference, too. However, he should have enough money to fix it up.

2/28/2007 9:48:20 AM

Quote :

"However, he should have enough money to fix it up."

He spends $30,000 a year on electricity. He can add some insulation.

2/28/2007 9:49:04 AM

Quote :

"Old houses are tougher than new ones."

depends a lot more on what the walls are made of, gwb thickness, type of studs, insulation or attenuation blanketing, foundation, etc

2/28/2007 9:53:09 AM

Quote :

"221,000/10,000 = 22.1 kwhr/sqft for that to be "average" a typical household using the average 10,656 kwhr house would be 483 sqft.... and if you think that you must think your dorm room must be palatial.... a better average would be 1000 - 2000 sqft resulting in a use of 10.6 kwhr/sqft - 5.3 kwhr/sqft both of which are significantly lower than Al Gore's 22.1 kwhr/sqft usage rate"

Christ, if you are going to try and use statistics, get it right. For one, that power usage figure includes more than just the heated area of the house, something that typically isn't true for the "average" household. Pools take a ton of energy to run. Then, on top of that, it has already been mentioned that his home probably gets used for a lot more than just sleeping and eating.

So to try and make a comparison like this is ridiculous.

I guess folks pointed out in this thread that he is retrofitting the place with solar panels?

2/28/2007 10:17:49 AM

he's probably got a pretty big refrigerator since he has gotten so fucking fat

2/28/2007 10:19:26 AM

he's probably got a fucking meat locker

2/28/2007 10:59:03 AM

Quote :

"I love a good false dilemma government!"

BridgetSPK

Fixed it for you.

Quote :

"After his presidential defeat in 2000, he and wife Tipper purchased a home in Belle Meade."

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070225/ENTERTAINMENT04/702250391

2/28/2007 10:59:09 AM

omg he lives in a house?????

2/28/2007 11:00:09 AM

^startling contribution to this thread. Thank you very, very much. Sincerely, and from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

2/28/2007 11:03:15 AM

omg a politician is a hypocrite?

2/28/2007 11:03:34 AM

from reading this thread


it's ok to be an elitist white rich guy that pollutes and harms the enviroment


if you're a democrat

2/28/2007 11:06:55 AM

screw some CO2 credits...Gore gets a message out there and if some other people clean up THEIR acts, then Gore doesnt have to

also apparently its ok to pollute as long as you pay money for people to plant trees

2/28/2007 11:08:40 AM

yet if someone is like nader they get labelled a whack-job.

2/28/2007 11:13:42 AM

I don't think anyone is arguing against taking measures to make this world cleaner



they're arguing the fact that someone is making this political (getting votes for the dems because obviously only the left cares about the planet) and trying to tell others how they should live their lives when that person is polluting more every year than many americans do their whole life

2/28/2007 11:14:46 AM

Quote :

"And I believe that by being progressive on these issues and a few others, we can justifiably sit atop our high horse and tell the rest of the world to suck our dick when they come begging for shit."

This is kind of what I was driving at earlier, but BridgetSPK put it so much more eloquently.

Brevity is the soul of wit - no doubt.

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 11:16 AM. Reason : [user]damnit[/user]]

2/28/2007 11:15:48 AM

^^^and rightfully so...he's too over the top

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 11:18 AM. Reason : ^^^]

2/28/2007 11:18:16 AM

Quote :

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem"

What's the latin word for when you attack someone's argument by calling it Ad hominem when it's not?

2/28/2007 11:40:50 AM

red herring?

2/28/2007 11:48:44 AM

cop out?

2/28/2007 11:54:59 AM

i want to see his pool, i mean they are expensive but a residential pool with a good pump/motor isnt going to be that expensive

2/28/2007 12:10:54 PM

You're right, it doesn't take too much energy to run the pump, but it does take a lot to heat the pool.

2/28/2007 12:38:59 PM

oh i know, ive had to learn all about this stuff. but in tennessee the season should be pretty long, so unless they are really extending it into the spring and fall they shouldnt have to use a heater very much.

non of this really matters, its more just me being curious what kind of pool he has

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 12:44 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2007 12:43:53 PM

^^ And power the pool house.

[Edited on February 28, 2007 at 12:44 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2007 12:44:24 PM