3rd page of core retardation.

whats wrong with you people?

o wait. nm.

3/4/2007 7:52:46 PM

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: You know, it may not be easy, but you can live pretty decently on $1523 / month assuming that is her real after tax income. Lets do some numbers: Let's say $600 / month in rent. This assumes no other people bringing in money for the apartment. $300 / month food budget. In my apartment, this is enough to feed two adults comfortably and still have leftovers for lunches. $120 / month for gas $100 / month for electricity (on the high end) $100 / month for insurance on a car $50 / month for misc needs $3 / month for BJs membership Now, we've taken care of basic needs for her. If we would like we can also add: $40 / month basic regional cell plan $40 / month high speed internet Which leaves $170 / month to spend elsewhere or save as needed. Is it the greatest life? No, certainly not. But it's definitely livable and certainly possible to work out of."

Thanks for proving my point.

You left out the most expensive thing of all:

CHILDCARE

You think $170/month will cover that? Hmmmm...LOL

I win this thread.

DUMB

ASS

3/4/2007 7:54:18 PM

Let it be known, that 1337 b4k4 PWNT the fuck out of himself here.

I mean, like, total PWNT. So much PWNT that he should never be allowed to post again.

He's like Rob Lowe in Tommy Boy when he pisses on that transformer and gets straight fried.

PWNT PWNT PWNT PWNT

[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 8:08 PM. Reason : PWNTITTTYPWNTPWNT]

3/4/2007 8:07:41 PM

Well, she is entitled to the EITC. As a single mother of two and an annual income of $18,276 the IRS will cut her a check of $3,800 every year and the rest of her income will remain predominantly untaxed due to her two children. Of course, if she can manage to hide some of her income, such as cash tips and the like, then she can get an even larger EITC.

But this is all besides the point. If Bridget is arguing in favor of raising the EITC then go for it. But so far she has not said what she wants to do about her single mother of two.. Attempt to rob Mick Jagger?

3/4/2007 8:13:47 PM

our childcare used to be $1700 / month.

although, now that he's older, its only $1000 / month.

3/4/2007 8:14:58 PM

thanks for that EITC, snark.

that'll get her 2-4 months of daycare depending on childs age.

she could probably cover the other 8-10 months by shaking her tits down at the Lusty Lady.




[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 8:21 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2007 8:17:18 PM

a woman in town charges 100 per week, per child. Childcare is expensive, but it doesnt have to cost 1700 a month either. Its like complaining about the payment on a PORSCHE.

3/4/2007 8:21:02 PM

Well, at this point she should probably sue the father for child support and or custody.

If he is dead then call either his or your parents for assistance, probably in the form of day care and babysitting.

If this is not possible then find a church that provides free day care.

Try to find a neighbor with children to watch your children, offer them whatever financial consideration you can muster.

Try to find a partner to support you and your kids. You will need to put up with a lot of shit, possibly even abuse, weigh this against the next step.

If all this fails then curcumstances are insurmountable. Either leave them home alone or try to find someone to adopt them. You did a horrible job planning your life, starting with trusting the wrong man. Time to start over.

3/4/2007 8:21:39 PM

^^ what the fuck? your "woman in town??" charges 100 bucks?

mother fucker i'll kick you in the goddamn teeth.

get the fuck out of here.





[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 8:27 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2007 8:22:32 PM

Quote :

" Username: LoneSnark Favorite Quote: Never in history have so many known so little about so much. "

apparently.





[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 8:26 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2007 8:25:20 PM

Quote :

"LoneSnark: But this is all besides the point. If Bridget is arguing in favor of raising the EITC then go for it. But so far she has not said what she wants to do about her single mother of two.."

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: I'm posting her story as an alternative to this notion that poor people are poor because they spend their money on drugs, eat all their meals out, and buy lots of cell phones."

Quote :

"eyedrb: a woman in town charges 100 per week, per child. Childcare is expensive, but it doesnt have to cost 1700 a month either. Its like complaining about the payment on a PORSCHE."

$900/month for two children (one only in the summer and after school) was the lowest I was willing to go in my budget.

[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 8:32 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2007 8:30:10 PM

joe, very constructive. Speaking of teeth here is a kid that died from a tooth infection.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022702116.html

3/4/2007 8:30:27 PM

STFU you stupid hillbilly

3/4/2007 8:31:36 PM

^again, you wow me with your intelect.

3/4/2007 8:34:55 PM

^^^That right there is pathetic

gg American health care system

[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 8:35 PM. Reason : ^^^]

3/4/2007 8:34:57 PM

Quote :

"$900/month for two children (one only in the summer and after school) was the lowest I was willing to go in my budget."

that's also unheard of where I live.

and we have poor people here, too.

3/4/2007 8:37:17 PM

boone, it might deserve its own thread, but I think the only person to blame is the mother. There is also a reason why medicaid dentists are hard to find. Soon, if the govt takes the whole thing over, your primary care doctor will be the same.

The article addresses some serious lack of responsiblities and negligence on the mothers part.

3/4/2007 8:37:19 PM

Quote :

"I think the only person to blame is the mother. "

oh, boy. another Social Darwinist.

let the stupid people kill themselves off, right?

3/4/2007 8:39:12 PM

Quote :

"eyedrb: The article addresses some serious lack of responsiblities and negligence on the mothers part."

You mean, this one sentence...

Quote :

"If his mother hadn't been focused on getting a dentist for his brother, who had six rotted teeth."

?

AHA, I didn't realize there were other pages.

[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 8:50 PM. Reason : LOL]

3/4/2007 8:40:14 PM

^^ He's not condoning the child's death, dumbass. Nowhere does he even suggest that this kid's death is somehow a good thing or just nature's way of weeding out those who cannot fend for themselves. I've got news for ya, especially since you're supposedly a father...you are primarily responsible for your child's care. There's nothing that's darwinian about that, it's called being an adult.

3/4/2007 8:42:48 PM

no, wait. i know.

eyedrb is a Social Calvinist.

you see, poor people are obviously damned, because they're poor. If they were righteous, they wouldn't be poor.

Simple right?

Its all part of God's master plan.



[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 8:43 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2007 8:43:05 PM

Quote :

"joe_schmoe: that's also unheard of where I live. and we have poor people here, too."

Oh, totally. I was uncomfortable with $900.

3/4/2007 8:43:38 PM

well, who do you feel is to blame then?

I mean, she let her paperwork lapse. I guess the govt should follow around everyone on medicaid to make sure they keep their paperwork up to date? Also, make sure that they brush thier teeth? Too expensive? Medicaid pays for toothpaste and listerine. And if she was overwhelmed by the two boys she had, since she sent the other 3 to her mothers house, then clearly she should have had at least 5 kids.

People talk about the uninsured in this country, but this is a great case of what happens. The uninsured still get healthcare and treatment the taxpayers cover that bill too. Just like they will in this case. Notice how she also cancelled her first dentist appointment bc she would have had to PAY for it. So she couldnt afford a doc visit, but now has 250k hospital bill. Either way we pay.

3/4/2007 8:45:23 PM

Quote :

"I've got news for ya, especially since you're supposedly a father...you are primarily responsible for your child's care."

no shit. aren't you the perceptive one.

well, look here cupcake, not everyone in this world (or even country) has the resources available to them that I or you have.

some people are not so fortunate.

the difference between you and I, however, is that I don't think the unfortunate should be left hanging out to die.

3/4/2007 8:46:26 PM

^^^But I totally know a lady downtown who will do it for $100 a month

Quote :

"So she couldnt afford a doc visit, but now has 250k hospital bill. Either way we pay."

An excellent argument for universal healthcare

[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 8:48 PM. Reason : .]

3/4/2007 8:47:04 PM

what wasnt available to them? Maybe I missed something.

3/4/2007 8:48:16 PM

^He wasn't talking to you or about that.

But on the subject of the dentist thing, that's what happens when people in extreme poverty are segregated from the rest of society and ghettoized in these communities with horrible conditions.

[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 8:55 PM. Reason : sss]

3/4/2007 8:55:06 PM

Quote :

" I mean, she let her paperwork lapse."

so she gets what she deserves right? well, at least you're fair

Quote :

"I guess the govt should follow around everyone on medicaid to make sure they keep their paperwork up to date?"

apparently. a kid fucking died for paperwork.

Quote :

"Also, make sure that they brush thier teeth?"

yep. if the mom cant keep her kids safe, then the government needs to step in.

Quote :

" And if she was overwhelmed by the two boys she had, since she sent the other 3 to her mothers house, then clearly she should have had at least 5 kids. Notice how she also cancelled her first dentist appointment bc she would have had to PAY for it. So she couldnt afford a doc visit, but now has 250k hospital bill. Either way we pay."

this is pointless. you're apparently another stupid hick who thinks the world's problems can be solved by sunday school lessons. either that, or another Ayn Rand groupie. whichever. im done with you.




[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 8:56 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2007 8:55:17 PM

Quote :

"the difference between you and I, however, is that I don't think the unfortunate should be left hanging out to die."

Put up or shut up, bitch. Where did I ever say that I think the unfortunate should be left to die?

3/4/2007 9:12:47 PM

Joe, you gave me a hard time about continuing to post in this fiasco. I'm amused to see that you people continue this even after the thread creator stop posting.

He started an unbacked argument that made no sense, at all. And it continues. And if it were that easy to "deal with" let alone "rid" the world of poverty then we would live in a visionary system of political or social perfection.

It's funny.

[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 9:29 PM. Reason : .]

3/4/2007 9:16:42 PM

^ what??? OMG, yeah, I know right!


man, i hate myself sometimes.


i think i have a problem. i guess i need to go get suspended again.





[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 9:33 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2007 9:32:55 PM

Quote :

"You left out the most expensive thing of all: CHILDCARE You think $170/month will cover that? Hmmmm...LOL I win this thread. DUMB ASS"

Cut out the phone and the internet (she works full time at wake tech, she has internet access there). Add another $80

Now we're up to $250. Add in the EITC, plus the fact that as a full time employee at wake tech, she is eligable to place money in a pre-tax child care spending account AND any money that she pays into child care not in said account is credited to her by the IRS. WakeTech also has a child care facility on campus where I am positive as a full time employee she can get a discount.

YOu said she also works as a secretary, is it a job where she could spend any of her time working from home? Did she ask?

And then of course, all of this presupposes that she has NO friends or relatives.

Where are this woman's parents (any child care money paid to them is tax deductable)? Why doesn't she live near them? Why (if she doesn't live near them) are they not able to provide her with some assisatance? Where are her friends? Does she have no one that she can move in with? She has no friends willing to split some living costs? Hell a good two or three bedroom apartment could be had for ~$800-$900 knocking her monthly rent down to $400 giving her another $200 / month towards child care.

Or how about this. With the magic wonder of the internet, she could search to find another single mother just like her and they could partner together to help eachother out.

Or she could find a church based program which can provide cheap or low cost care.

And then as lone snark said, maybe it's better to give up the children. I mean let's be reasonable here, if we are saying for sure that this woman can barely support herself and certainly can't afford to care for two children as well, wouldn't the children be better off living with someone who could support them? Maybe the kids need to live with grandma and grandpa for a few years until mom gets on her feet.

BTW, since this was supposedly based on a real account, how did she care for her kids Bridget?

3/4/2007 9:49:38 PM

Quote :

"And if it were that easy to "deal with" let alone "rid" the world of poverty then we would live in a visionary system of political or social perfection."

You know, I think capitalism has its advantages and whatnot, and I'm not ready to move to a new system. I'm not foolish enough to believe that there is a perfect system that works under all conditions.

However, there are steps we can take to improve what we have now. In my opinion, isolating people by class and race is at the root of many of society's ills, and it doesn't have to be so. However, I'm coming from a Raleigh perspective; I've stopped in places in NC where the entire town is depressed in poverty, and I have no idea what to do there. Towns like that are included in the rare instances that I think economics folks can be of some help.

[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 10:05 PM. Reason : SSS]

3/4/2007 10:02:49 PM

joe, again I ask you WHO is to blame for this kids death?

What color is the sky in your world? Id like to know how you propose we pay to have someone follow each family around to make sure thier paperwork is done and they brush thier teeth.

I guess Im a hick that thinks some people need to have some responsibility.

Bridget, im not trying to offend you i like the discussion, but who do YOU think is to blame for the boys situation?

3/4/2007 10:02:55 PM

Don't answer him Joe. Just walk away, dude. You're better than this.

3/4/2007 10:08:32 PM

Quote :

"Bridget, im not trying to offend you i like the discussion, but who do YOU think is to blame for the boys situation?"

Society, of course.

AHA, 1337 b4k4 doesn't like his PWNT. I'll be attending to your post in a little bit, man.

[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 10:10 PM. Reason : sss]

3/4/2007 10:08:39 PM

^^^

3/4/2007 10:21:07 PM

oh no joe, someone from the govt should have been there to help.

someone asks you a question and you respond with a drawing? Is it true you have a kid?

[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 10:26 PM. Reason : .]

3/4/2007 10:25:01 PM

ive made my point quite clear






[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 10:29 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2007 10:28:33 PM

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Cut out the phone and the internet (she works full time at wake tech, she has internet access there). Add another $80"

Add the cleaning supplies, school supplies, clothing, tampons, toilet paper, tooth paste, tooth brushes, OTC medications!, condoms, shampoo, conditioner, soap, hand soap, face wash, razors, laundry detergent, dish soap, DIAPERS, etc..., etc...that your $50/month for miscellaneous items is supposed to cover...

Many of these are not monthly charges, you're right. Imagine how much you'll need a year, add it all up, and divide by 12. By the way, daycares won't accept cloth diapers anymore. (And congratulations on not providing for holiday meals/gifts.) Do you still think you could provide for yourself and two kids on a secretary/waitress salary now? Honestly?

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Now we're up to $250. Add in the EITC, plus the fact that as a full time employee at wake tech, she is eligable to place money in a pre-tax child care spending account AND any money that she pays into child care not in said account is credited to her by the IRS. WakeTech also has a child care facility on campus where I am positive as a full time employee she can get a discount."

1. eligible
2. I'm not familiar with the EITC or the this pre-tax childcare spending account--it didn't show up on the benefits site where I found the college/retirement dealies. I spoke to my sister who is an accountant about this project, and she suggested a few things that I didn't understand so I couldn't include them in my budget--I wondered how many people actually knew about and understood the things they could do. I looked up Alice's (name changed) salary on the internet, and I found a salary over $30,000/year so I thought I could meet the basics without my sister's advice. I also felt so smart for providing for colllege/retirement savings since I was the only one in the class to do this, but then I felt like an ass for being the most over budget once her actual income was revealed.
3. The Wake Tech childcare facility is no longer. Everyone in class was counting on it, but it's actually only for students who are interested in learning about childcare now.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: You said she also works as a secretary, is it a job where she could spend any of her time working from home? Did she ask?"

I didn't ask. And I imagine she didn't either. Is this a joke?

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: And then of course, all of this presupposes that she has NO friends or relatives. Where are this woman's parents (any child care money paid to them is tax deductable)? Why doesn't she live near them? Why (if she doesn't live near them) are they not able to provide her with some assisatance? Where are her friends? Does she have no one that she can move in with? She has no friends willing to split some living costs? Hell a good two or three bedroom apartment could be had for ~$800-$900 knocking her monthly rent down to $400 giving her another $200 / month towards child care."

This part kinda touches on what LoneSnark mentioned as far as her finding a mate. She followed her boyfriend from New Jersey to here because he was getting a good job here. He helped support her and her children for a couple years. Then he split. What are you gonna do?

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Or how about this. With the magic wonder of the internet, she could search to find another single mother just like her and they could partner together to help eachother out."

This would be great!

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Or she could find a church based program which can provide cheap or low cost care."

Right.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: And then as lone snark said, maybe it's better to give up the children. I mean let's be reasonable here, if we are saying for sure that this woman can barely support herself and certainly can't afford to care for two children as well, wouldn't the children be better off living with someone who could support them? Maybe the kids need to live with grandma and grandpa for a few years until mom gets on her feet."

Are you fucking retarded? You really want poor people (people who aren't even below the poverty line) to be giving up their children to the government? Aren't you all big on how the government is shitty?

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: BTW, since this was supposedly based on a real account, how did she care for her kids Bridget?"

You tell me.

[Edited on March 4, 2007 at 11:44 PM. Reason : ...]

3/4/2007 11:37:18 PM

Quote :

"God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes 'Cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the blues "

3/5/2007 1:57:24 AM

Quote :

"Then he split. What are you gonna do?"

What ever other mother in this circumstance is expected to do: Sue him for child support.

Presumably she knows his name and he didn't manage to fake his death, so go get him!!! They're his kids, legally he is liable for half their upkeep.

But, if she doesn't want to put up with the headache, then obviously she believes it to be possible to support them herself.

3/5/2007 2:56:39 AM

yeah, because deadbeat dads always have good jobs, manage their money, leave forwarding addresses, and pay their support bills on time.

Quote :

" Username: LoneSnark Favorite Quote: Never in history have so many known so little about so much. "

3/5/2007 3:03:24 AM

^^You do understand that child support is often based on what the man can pay, right?

There are men who are ordered to pay just $100/month in child support. Child support is not some cure-all. It's cute that you think it is. It's cute that you think this woman's situation is unique. And it's ugly that you think she should give up her children.

[Edited on March 5, 2007 at 9:55 AM. Reason : ugly]

3/5/2007 9:54:42 AM

So, what do you think should be done about the problem Bridget?

3/5/2007 10:06:15 AM

So you're admitting there's a problem? On page 2, you said...

Quote :

"RallyDurham won the fuck out of this thread. His opponents have been reduced to responses like "kill yourself please"

So when you say problem, do you mean the actual problem or rallydurham's silly idea that poor people are poor because they use drugs, buy a lot of cell phones, and eat all their meals out?

3/5/2007 10:20:13 AM

Quote :

"Add the cleaning supplies, school supplies, clothing, tampons, toilet paper, tooth paste, tooth brushes, OTC medications!, condoms, shampoo, conditioner, soap, hand soap, face wash, razors, laundry detergent, dish soap, DIAPERS, etc..., etc...that your $50/month for miscellaneous items is supposed to cover... "

A lot of that is covered in the food budget and $50 a month can easily cover the rest if she buys smart. Couple of questions:

1) Why is she buying condoms. She already has two kids she can barely support. It's time the close the legs and stop fucking.

2) As far as diapers go, she can use cloth diapers as often as possible and disposable diapers when she needs to leave the child where cloth is not allowed.

3) What happened to all the clothes from her 6 year old? Certainly those can be used for the young one no?

Quote :

"And congratulations on not providing for holiday meals/gifts."

Sorry, but when you have that little budget to work with, you don't get to do spending on holiday gifts except small things.

Quote :

"Do you still think you could provide for yourself and two kids on a secretary/waitress salary now? Honestly? "

Personally, no I don't think I would have the patience for it. Hence, I'm not single with two kids working a crap job, with no one else to help me. But it is doable.

Quote :

". eligible 2. I'm not familiar with the EITC or the this pre-tax childcare spending account--it didn't show up on the benefits site where I found the college/retirement dealies. I spoke to my sister who is an accountant about this project, and she suggested a few things that I didn't understand so I couldn't include them in my budget--I wondered how many people actually knew about and understood the things they could do. I looked up Alice's (name changed) salary on the internet, and I found a salary over $30,000/year so I thought I could meet the basics without my sister's advice. I also felt so smart for providing for colllege/retirement savings since I was the only one in the class to do this, but then I felt like an ass for being the most over budget once her actual income was revealed. 3. The Wake Tech childcare facility is no longer. Everyone in class was counting on it, but it's actually only for students who are interested in learning about childcare now."

1) Means if she doesn't do it, it's her loss.
2) EITC (earned income tax credit) almost everyone should know about this, certainly someone who's had kids for at least 6 years.

the pretax account (ncflex is a larger bennefits package to cc employees): http://www.osp.state.nc.us/ncflex/PDFs/DepDayCareSA_information.pdf
3) Well then she needs to select from another option.

Quote :

"I didn't ask. And I imagine she didn't either. Is this a joke? "

Why would it be a joke. Is there no part of her job that could not be accomplished from a home computer? Why is that not a valid question? If she has a child to care for it certainly seems reasonable that she should inquire as to any possibilities of working from home, even if it's only a few days a month.

Quote :

"She followed her boyfriend from New Jersey to here because he was getting a good job here. He helped support her and her children for a couple years. Then he split. What are you gonna do?"

GO BACK HOME! Presumeably her parents aren't dead, no estranged, why hasn't she considered going back home, even (GOD FORBID) moving back in with her parents. What loving grandparent wouldn't help out? Hell what parent wouldn't help out? Are we such a narcissistic society that people have forgotten their own families? Is she so proud that she would forgo her children's health and livelihood to avoid asking for help from the very people who are in a position to best help her.

Also, in the 6 years that she an her boyfriend (you mean 6 years and 2 kids and they didn't marry?) were living together, did they not build any sort of savings? Has she no extra money to fall back on at all?

Quote :

"This would be great!"

So why doesn't she try?

Quote :

"Right. "

And what's the problem with this? The religion aspect? Too bad, beggars can't be choosers.

Quote :

"Are you fucking retarded? You really want poor people (people who aren't even below the poverty line) to be giving up their children to the government? Aren't you all big on how the government is shitty?"

Where did I say a damn thing about giving the children to the government? I said grand parents, aunts and uncles, relatives, god forbid even friends. If we love and care for the children so much this is clearly the answer. You want to break the cycle of poverty, get the KIDS out of poverty.

On another note, I have continually stated in other threads that while I reject the notion of government assistance in most cases, I am accepting and understanding of localized (state level) programs and most specifically programs targeted directly at children (i.e. subsidized child care). I believe that is a valid cause when done appropriately and when all other options are used or unavailable.

Quote :

"You tell me. "

Nice. How about you tell us, you're the one giving us the story of the single mother with no friends or family. You tell me.

Quote :

"yeah, because deadbeat dads always have good jobs, manage their money, leave forwarding addresses, and pay their support bills on time. "

It amazes me that people think president bush is going to listen in on their very secret phone calls to their mother, unravel their plot to kill the president, track them down and ship them off to gitmo without anyone knowing, but they don't think the IRS can track down a deadbeat dad.

Quote :

"You do understand that child support is often based on what the man can pay, right? There are men who are ordered to pay just $100/month in child support. Child support is not some cure-all. It's cute that you think it is. It's cute that you think this woman's situation is unique. And it's ugly that you think she should give up her children."

That's still an extra $100 a month, or $1200/ year. Which is a lot of fucking money when you're that destitute. As far as giving up her children which is uglier:

The single mother desperately struggling to survive (to the point of stealing) giving up her children temporarily to folks that can better care for them and provide them with a better life while she gets back on her feet.

or

The single mother who is so selfish in her desires that she would willingly subject her children to a life of poverty so that she can tuck them into bed at night.

[Edited on March 5, 2007 at 10:33 AM. Reason : lkj]

3/5/2007 10:26:52 AM

Quote :

"So when you say problem, do you mean the actual problem or rallydurham's silly idea that poor people are poor because they use drugs, buy a lot of cell phones, and eat all their meals out?"

The problem as you view it.

3/5/2007 10:47:04 AM

^^AHA. I love the way you try to characterize her as this selfish, narcissistic person...

That's hilarious.

You're completely pathetic for arguing this issue with me. Why can't you admit that some people bust their asses and never get ahead? What interest do you have in asserting that poor people are poor because they've done something wrong, because they're somehow defective? That's what you're saying about this woman.

And, by the way, making lengthy responses to me doesn't make you right. It's just that many more words you use to be wrong.

^
Free quality daycare and pre-school for anyone who wants or needs it is where I'd start.

[Edited on March 5, 2007 at 1:33 PM. Reason : sss]

3/5/2007 1:31:52 PM

Quote :

"Why can't you admit that some people bust their asses and never get ahead?"

Just because you bust your ass doesn't mean you are going to get ahead. The guy at Taco Bell may bust his ass every day but that doesn't mean he is going to get ahead.

Quote :

"What interest do you have in asserting that poor people are poor because they've done something wrong, because they're somehow defective?"

Give me an example where this isn't the case.


I wouldn't mind seeing free daycare.

3/5/2007 1:38:02 PM