Quote :

"Everyone is not born to be a hero, you included."

Yet it happens. I don't understand why y'all won't accept that. People can and have defeated gunmen without guns of their own.

Quote :

"How someone might handle that situation can only be revealed when they actually are in that situation and people writing hardcore "This is what should have happened" horse shit passing judgement disgusts me."

I don't see anything wrong with encouraging people to resist attackers whent hey aren't able to flee. Be disgusted all you want. Have a ball. That won't ever save anyone's life.

4/27/2007 2:29:52 PM

Who said they couldn't run? Plenty of people jumped out of windows and such.

4/27/2007 3:47:04 PM

See you're trying to argue that everyone should try and pull a Die Hard and I'm telling you thats its easy to say something that fucking stupid when you don't have your best friend's brainpeice all over your face.

I mean I wish we were all noble and grand and if wishes were fishes I'd probably be able to feed the world.

That, however, is not the case and it bothers me that someone could be so insulting and such a fucktard about the entire ordeal when he/she hasn't proven what THEY might actually do in that very situation.

4/27/2007 4:22:02 PM

Dude, he would have just whipped out his handy dandy halberd and impaled him with it. Duh.

4/27/2007 4:29:25 PM

Quote :

"Who said they couldn't run? Plenty of people jumped out of windows and such."

Others weren't able to.

Quote :

"That, however, is not the case and it bothers me that someone could be so insulting and such a fucktard about the entire ordeal when he/she hasn't proven what THEY might actually do in that very situation."

I've never claimed I would have reacted differently than VT victims did. I have no actual experience with violence or military training.

However, I think I have a bit of an edge because I know bullets rarely instantly kill and gunmen can be subdued. I'm not blaming the victims for not kayoing Cho. That's pure invention on the part of my critics. I mainly just want people to be aware of their ability to fight back. Training helps, of course, but I think understanding what's possible is also important.

Quote :

"Dude, he would have just whipped out his handy dandy halberd and impaled him with it. Duh."

Indeed.

[Edited on April 27, 2007 at 5:35 PM. Reason : d]

4/27/2007 5:34:37 PM

Quote :

"However, I think I have a bit of an edge because I know bullets rarely instantly kill and gunmen can be subdued."

The bullet may not instantly kill you, but there's a good chance it would have sufficent stopping power to slow you down enough to get another shot off. Then assuming you get close enough, unless you can physically overpower him, it's not likely you'll be able to subdue him. I wouldn't care where I was, I'd run.

[Edited on April 27, 2007 at 5:51 PM. Reason : ]

4/27/2007 5:50:26 PM

Quote :

"The bullet may not instantly kill you, but there's a good chance it would have sufficent stopping power to slow you down enough to get another shot off."

I don't know about that. Plenty of people get shot and don't even realize it until later.

Quote :

"Then assuming you get close enough, unless you can physically overpower him, it's not likely you'll be able to subdue him."

That's true. I said basically the same thing back on page one.

Quote :

"I wouldn't care where I was, I'd run."

It depends on the situation. You might have to run past or through him. And if you have help, kayoing the guy is pretty likely. That could save many lives. The Israeli case I noted earlier is a good example of this.

4/27/2007 5:55:39 PM

Quote :

"I don't know about that. Plenty of people get shot and don't even realize it until later."

Maybe in extreme cases, but if you get hit in the chest I imagine the force alone would be enough to almost knock one over.

Quote :

"The Israeli case I noted earlier is a good example of this."

Well in Israel this is a situation people are a little more used to, not to mention Israelis have to serve in the military, so likely there were some ex-military or off duty folks there. It's not as likely to happen here.

4/27/2007 6:35:42 PM

Quote :

"The bullet may not instantly kill you, but there's a good chance it would have sufficent stopping power to slow you down enough to get another shot off"

unless that bullet hits your spine, heart, or brain

not to mention the various other spots that would render your hands or legs useless instantly


people don't shoot cap and ball muskets that often at humans anymore

4/27/2007 6:39:35 PM

Quote :

"Maybe in extreme cases, but if you get hit in the chest I imagine the force alone would be enough to almost knock one over."

Please tell me your joking. I'd hoped everyone knew this by now:

Quote :

"A bullet simply cannot knock a man down."

http://www.thegunzone.com/quantico-wounding.html

Also from that article:

Quote :

"The human target can be reliably incapacitated only by disrupting or destroying the brain or upper spinal cord. Absent that, incapacitation is subject to a host of variables, the most important of which are beyond the control of the shooter. Incapacitation becomes an eventual event, not necessarily an immediate one. If the psychological factors which can contribute to incapacitation are present, even a minor wound can be immediately incapacitating. If they are not present, incapacitation can be significantly delayed even with major, unsurvivable wounds."

4/27/2007 6:56:21 PM

Quote :

"unless that bullet hits your spine, heart, or brain not to mention the various other spots that would render your hands or legs useless instantly people don't shoot cap and ball muskets that often at humans anymore"

I don't think you understood what I was saying

4/27/2007 7:14:43 PM

theduke866
nice find, i bought the "on killing" book after randomly seeing it in the bookstore, thought it was great, although i never finished it but will now

here are some more of grossman's publications:
http://www.killology.com/publications.htm

4/27/2007 7:17:51 PM

stopping power info, take a look at the links...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_power

4/27/2007 7:21:09 PM