Quote :

"Instead, the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (now known British Petroleum, or BP) was getting 93 percent of the profits. Mossadegh didn't like that, and wanted a 50-50 split. Kinzer writes that that didn't sit too well with the British government, but it didn't want to use force to protect its interests. But their biggest friend, the United States, didn't mind, and sought to undermine Mossadegh's tenure as president. After all kinds of measures that disrupted the nation, a coup was financed and led by President Dwight Eisenhower's CIA, and the Shah of Iran was installed as the leader. We trained his goon squads, thus angering generations of Iranians for meddling in that nation's affairs."

And we wonder why Muslim's assail capitalism as evil.

5/18/2007 4:54:55 PM

and it doesn't mention that Mossadegh was assasinated.

if you showed that paragraph to someone from another planet, and then told them that the US has put IRAN on a list called as "Axis of Evil", what would the alien's reaction be?

5/18/2007 5:00:10 PM

^^ Well put. I don't think Ron Paul is trying to imply that American's are bad. We're largely some of the most generous people on the planet, no more or less evil intrinsically (as humans) than anyone else. However we live in an economy that thrives on cheap oil. Capitalism ensures that there will always be people willing to supply it and what they do to ensure a steady supply of cheap oil goes largely unknown to all Americans, but not to those effected. Ron Paul is arguing for a greater understanding of our impact on the world due to our massive consumption habits.

Quote :

"i just figure jcash views you as al qaeda since you want people silenced"

Wow. First off, not only AQ wants people silenced, I'm not so easily fooled into attempting to force people into neat little ideological boxes as you. Second, my opinion of OEP varies. Sometimes his emotions dominate his posts, but he generally brings a lot to the table. As far as Twista . . . well if you can't say anything nice . . .

[Edited on May 18, 2007 at 5:02 PM. Reason : fuck this, I'm going to REK]

5/18/2007 5:01:19 PM

Quote :

"Ron Paul is arguing for a greater understanding of our impact on the world due to our massive consumption habits."

EXACTLY!

now let's say that america is acting as the "world police"

first off, in my opinion, i certainly wouldn't want any other country beside us doing it

so it makes sense for the united states to act in ways such as how they dealt with iran in that article in order to protect the interests of the united states (our economy, etc)

i can accept that. what i can't accept is when those countries retaliate against us and 70% of our population thinks they are evil. all i'm asking is for people to understand the reasoning behind their actions

5/18/2007 5:06:59 PM

Gosh, I dont recall any democrats asking for Lieberman to be kicked off the debates.

5/18/2007 8:22:37 PM

Quote :

"what is truly amazing is that i always thought republicans were the realists and democrats were the idealists. yet when it comes to admitting mistakes, and when it comes to the state of the middle east and america's role in the world, it is the republicans who are idealists and the democrats who are realists"

I'm sorry, but right now, both parties are idealistic now. it's not just confined to one party.

5/18/2007 8:24:08 PM

Quote :

"that's right, i forgot you christians pick and choose either the whole book is valid, or none of it is if it's possible to pick and choose then the muslims can do it too by the way, we're not talking about jesus, we're talking about the gods of each religion"

whoa whoa whoa. first of all, that wasn't picking and choosing. second, jesus CHRIST is the God of CHRISTianity.






^^^ and yeah, that's more or less what I think (although I have no problem with viewing most of those concerned as "evil". They are.) However, our policymakers HAVE to start understanding and considering the more far-reaching implications of America's actions. We can't continue to think in terms of the quick-fix for America, everything else be damned.

5/18/2007 8:29:15 PM

^ you mean like "BRING THE TROOPS HOME RIGHT NOW, RIGHT THIS INSTANCE," for example?

oh, and JC isn't the "god" of Christianity, btw... splitting hairs, but still

5/18/2007 9:08:16 PM

The easter bunny has a better chance of becoming president.

5/18/2007 11:32:59 PM

I still don't understand why this is hard for people to understand. Ron Paul has never suggested that we got what we deserved, or that the terrorists were right for 9/11. He's saying that there is a very clear reason that they chose to attack us. Admittinig that our actions as a country have consequences is not un-American, it's just a logical conclusion.

If you want us to be the world police, then you have to accept that some people aren't going to like it, and they're going to shoot back. Right, or wrong?

5/19/2007 11:14:53 AM

^ Because there are certain amongst us whose minds cannot rationalize any sort of complex thought. Shocking, I know. I think they're called neocons. Anyway . . .

Quote :

"now let's say that america is acting as the "world police" first off, in my opinion, i certainly wouldn't want any other country beside us doing it so it makes sense for the united states to act in ways such as how they dealt with iran in that article in order to protect the interests of the united states (our economy, etc)"

If we're the "word police" shouldn't we represent humanity's interest and not our own? If we're going to act like an empire, we need to be up front about it and realistic in our understanding of why we act the way we do. While we may be a benevolent people, the machinery that drives our economic engine is not.

5/19/2007 2:19:55 PM