diversity; maybe.

talent? LAFF

Not saying you said or implied it, I just have to get that out of the way if there was any doubt.

And as far as Nirvana is concerned, I don't think I've ever heard anyone harp on how talented they were. Their draw was 99% in their image and subsequent relevence in changing the face of mainstream rock.

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 9:54 AM. Reason : eh]

6/1/2007 9:53:35 AM

^^I'm going to agree with that.

RHCP always comes out with CD's that never seem to leave the player in my car. All their songs come together really well on every album, its never really "lets skip this because it sucks, the next one is much better."

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 9:54 AM. Reason : .]

6/1/2007 9:54:21 AM

Quote :

" kinda agree with Ben. But Mos has a certain style that's attractive, and he conveys it in his music seamlessly. As far as being a top-notch rapper; yeah, I'd say he's a little overrated. "

Yeah I guess I'm a way too attracted to his style and similar hip hop artists that I can't possibly think he's overrated DENIAL AT ITS FINEST!!

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 9:55 AM. Reason : ]

6/1/2007 9:54:49 AM

I too like his style. I don't think Common is as good as his earlier albums, but his betrayal (along with Mos's) of the common rapper "excess" style is endearing.

And basically, with the standard plummeting about 5 years ago and ultimately planing off, Common and Mos are actually still two of the better rappers of our day--at least in mainstream circles.

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 10:00 AM. Reason : eh]

6/1/2007 9:56:45 AM

Biggie and 2Pac

holy shit death will cause some people to overrate some motherfuckers

6/1/2007 10:08:52 AM

Dave Mathews Band

nickel back

recently radiohead

just about everything on this list that I can tell... http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Singles&f=Hot+R%26B%2FHip-Hop+Songs

6/1/2007 10:14:39 AM

Quote :

" Buy U A Drank (Shawty Snappin')"

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

and thats the number one single on the charts

in-fucking-sane

6/1/2007 10:15:46 AM

(on the Rap/Hip-Hop/R&B charts)
Yes..

6/1/2007 10:17:26 AM

^^note my post about rap making nothing but divots on the yard of art and music in the past 5 years.

\/ yes, I meant to imply.

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 10:25 AM. Reason : asd]

6/1/2007 10:20:24 AM

mainstream yes

otherwise no

6/1/2007 10:21:57 AM

the thing with mos def revolved around let down after the black star work with talib kweli

i mean

after that he'd been touted so high, but his albums have been good, but not great.

dont get me wrong, i routinely listen to him, but, you can't deny he's overrated.

6/1/2007 10:22:49 AM

yeah I was gonna mention his work with Talib, too.

Set the standard way too high for any sophomore work.

6/1/2007 10:26:25 AM

Quote :

"I could compare their diversity to Led Zeppelin"

Really... RHCP sings about California in damn near every fucking song. That's as diverse as a Klan rally.

6/1/2007 10:31:09 AM

Blood Sugar Sex Magik alone is a better album than most modern bands have or will ever put out

6/1/2007 10:32:30 AM

Quote :

"diversity; maybe. talent? LAFF"

no, I wasnt implying they are as talented as Zeppelin - not in the same ballpark. But you can listen to a RHCP cd and get everything from a punkrock-ish vibe to an acoustic "sitting on the beach" song to a funky song, etc.

Much like listening to a Zeppelin cd where the band showcases how they can make a great song in any style.

and I didnt mean they were very diverse in the subject of their songs, just the style that they perform the songs.

6/1/2007 10:36:11 AM

Nevermind me. I'm partial to Zeppelin.

I'd form the same defense if the argument were Zeppelin v. The Stones.

IN MY OPINION**** Led Zeppelin shits all over the Stones.

6/1/2007 10:39:52 AM

Quote :

"I saw taht someone posted The Mars Volta. Now, if we're talking overrated in terms of musicianship, I absolutely cannot agree."

"Musicianship" is the worst thing to happen to popular music in its entire history. This isn't a personal callout or anything, since plenty of people use it; I just think it's a shitty criterion on which to judge something. Just because someone's an excellent guitarist or arranger, I shouldn't be allowed to criticize their shitty songwriting? Jimmy Page was the sloppiest motherfucker alive in 1971, and everyone loved him, as well they should. Jonny Greenwood is pretty fucking sloppy, too, and that's part of his charm. Rock music isn't about playing the right notes.

6/1/2007 10:43:08 AM

hahahahhaaha

I rattled the cages of you radiohead fanboys for two pages worth of returns.

which is exactly why they're overrated.

Quote :

"^ um, yeah, I'm gonna need you to explain to me how Radiohead is "pseudo intellectual""

because as soon as someone claims that they don't like radiohead, the automatic response is "oh that's just because you don't get it.

oh, and this articulates it perfectly:

"Kid A transformed [Radiohead] into an intellectual symbol of sorts, a surprisingly ubiquitous signifier of self. Owning it became "getting it"; getting it became "annointing it." The record's significance as a litmus test was stupid and instant and undeniable: In certain circles, you were only as credible as your relationship to this album. And that kind of intense, unilateral, with-us-or-against-us fandom felt oddly, uncomfortably apropos in the face of all that sound."

6/1/2007 10:44:58 AM

Phish

come and get me hippies!!

6/1/2007 10:46:13 AM

Quote :

"Jay-Z is overrated...Nelly is overrated...I could name plenty of underrated rappers though "

Quote :

"Biggie and 2Pac holy shit death will cause some people to overrate some motherfuckers"

I know everyone has their opinion...But I have to disagree with this one. Big, Pac, & Jay are top five rappers ever.

6/1/2007 10:46:34 AM

^^^^I love Greenwood and Page, and their sloppiness fits their respective arrangements perfectly. When did I infer that it couldn't be part of the musical arrangement? Did I give a subjective position on "musicianship"?

. . .Funny you should mention two of my favorite musicians ever in your argument, though

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 10:49 AM. Reason : eh]

6/1/2007 10:47:27 AM

^^^ I've never met anyone that claims to be a fan of Phish that doesn't get high quite often

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 10:48 AM. Reason : goddamn ^]

6/1/2007 10:48:01 AM

Quote :

"When did I infer that it couldn't be part of the musical arrangement? Did I give a subjective position on "musicianship"?"

You didn't, precisely, but to say that the Mars Volta aren't overrated from a musicianship standpoint is to suggest that there is a quality to music that's applicable to its artistic merit outside of the content itself.

Anyway, as I said, your mention of musicianship was really just a jumping off point for me to rant about people who tell me that Joe Satriani is a good artist just because he can play a million notes in a second.

6/1/2007 10:52:35 AM

Granted.

I suppose the issue here is what entails "musicianship" and ultimately, what criteria connote a blurred, subjective rating system.

O-pin-ion.

^ Great point on Joe Satriani. Quick fretting and picking have shit to do with having a great ear, and, if we're really gonna get into it, the soul of the respective musician.

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 10:57 AM. Reason : eh]

6/1/2007 10:55:56 AM

fugazi
sunny day
lifetime


and yet, i can't get away from their influence

6/1/2007 10:56:26 AM

Quote :

"Big, Pac, & Jay are top five rappers ever"

its pretty much completely laughable for anyone over the age of 20 to consider Jay a top 10 rapper ever...but obviously its the "death makes people larger than life" aspect that rocketed PAC and BIG into the spotlight, after they had died of course

Where's Kool G Rap? Where's Masta Ace? Rakim? KRS? Chuck D?

6/1/2007 10:57:51 AM

^^the Nirvana conundrom.

And no, I'm not certain I spelled that correctly.

^the only one of the 3 out of whom I ever got any sustained enjoyment was Biggie.

\/with this, I cannot agree.

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 10:59 AM. Reason : oh well.]

6/1/2007 10:58:09 AM

I've got another one: Alice in Chains

they might not be overrated in a "great music" sense, but I'll be damned if they dont play 4-5 songs of theirs on every modern rock station every single day - all of which sound exactly the same

6/1/2007 10:58:30 AM

Quote :

"ts pretty much completely laughable for anyone over the age of 20 to consider Jay a top 10 rapper ever"

not in any way. Yes, Kingdom Come was a pretty shitty album. But Blueprint and Reasonable doubt are CLASSICS. Vol. 1 was slept on, The Dynasty album was damn good, as was Blueprint 2 (yes it had a bit too much filler, but that's the case with ALL of Pac's double albums).

Jay's wordplay, flow, charisma, and storytelling ability put him ahead of damn near everyone. Particularly Nas.

6/1/2007 11:05:44 AM

^I'd say that you have to put this in the context of the past 5-7 years of mainstream rap.

In the context of "ever," I'd say he's at best top 30-40.

6/1/2007 11:07:19 AM

Offspring

V good one

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 11:11 AM. Reason : ]

6/1/2007 11:07:25 AM

my offering:

GREEN DAY

6/1/2007 11:08:13 AM

Quote :

""Musicianship" is the worst thing to happen to popular music in its entire history. This isn't a personal callout or anything, since plenty of people use it; I just think it's a shitty criterion on which to judge something. Just because someone's an excellent guitarist or arranger, I shouldn't be allowed to criticize their shitty songwriting? Jimmy Page was the sloppiest motherfucker alive in 1971, and everyone loved him, as well they should. Jonny Greenwood is pretty fucking sloppy, too, and that's part of his charm. Rock music isn't about playing the right notes. "

bingo, I used to hate VB but I am finding that we have a bit in common



2pac is definitely overrated, All of the following are/were better: Rakim is much better, Kool G Rap, Dres of the Blacksheep (Yo! lets get this sheep movin') was better (on their first album), back in the day LL Cool J was pretty damn good, KRS-One, D-Form, Nas

6/1/2007 11:09:06 AM

Jay made it big thanks to the Neptunes beats and stealing Big's lines

its just kind of interesting that one of the top 5 rappers of all time wasnt shit until Biggie and Big L died and allowed him to steal their niche

Quote :

"Jay's wordplay, flow, charisma, and storytelling ability put him ahead of damn near everyone. Particularly Nas."

interesting view...considering the only classic album either Jay or Nas has ever put out was Illmatic

6/1/2007 11:10:17 AM

y'all are gonna laugh, but as far as being the art of rapping, and what goes into it, Treach of Naughty by Nature was damned good, and WILL FUCKING SMITH can carry a flow in a bucket better than 80% of these clowns on the radio today.

^and I liked It Was Written just about as much as Illmatic

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 11:12 AM. Reason : ec]

6/1/2007 11:11:40 AM

Bob Dylan





Just fuckin with ya


I didn't see anyone list Outkast, so I'm gonna say them.

6/1/2007 11:12:12 AM

BRIGHT EYES

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 11:17 AM. Reason : though "landlocked blues" is a great song, though much of that is emmylou harris]

6/1/2007 11:12:43 AM

I'm not gonna read this whole thread


but I bet it is funny


and I bet it is the usual suspects chiming in with their opinion on popular music

6/1/2007 11:13:42 AM

Quote :

"not in any way. Yes, Kingdom Come was a pretty shitty album. But Blueprint and Reasonable doubt are CLASSICS. Vol. 1 was slept on, The Dynasty album was damn good, as was Blueprint 2 (yes it had a bit too much filler, but that's the case with ALL of Pac's double albums). Jay's wordplay, flow, charisma, and storytelling ability put him ahead of damn near everyone. Particularly Nas."

Agreed. Biggie was before his time. Jay had all the tools. Pac showed he was human and had that raw emotion in his music that you felt.

And I listened to hip hop ever since I can remember. Rakim is definately top five if not one. I listened to Kane. I ad the black sheep casette and dres was a beast. But how many mcs have the charisma, flow, lyrics, street cred and commercial appeal at teh same time? Jay. Big.

6/1/2007 11:19:47 AM

charisma, street cred, and commercial appeal are the only definites in that list.

the rest (the actual base elements [in my opinion]) to being a good rapper, are up for debate.

to me, charisma, street cred, and commercial appeal have absolutely NOTHING to do with being a good rapper.

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 11:22 AM. Reason : eh]

6/1/2007 11:21:35 AM

I could name 5 members of Wu who are better rappers than Jay...if you wanna say he is a top 5 emcee as far as mainstream rappers in the last 5 years ok thats fine...but dont come with this "Greatest of All Time" shit

Just cause Jay is better than most of the other garbage out nowadays doesnt mean he is in the realm of GOAT

[Edited on June 1, 2007 at 11:25 AM. Reason : .]

6/1/2007 11:24:37 AM

come to think of it, i think i love "landlocked blues" simply because he had the balls to put "taps" in it.

6/1/2007 11:25:02 AM

without reading the entire catfight...

i will say that radiohead is the most overrated band of our time, and I like them a lot

6/1/2007 11:26:40 AM

Quote :

"I could name 5 members of Wu who are better rappers than Jay...if you wanna say he is a top 5 emcee as far as mainstream rappers in the last 5 years ok thats fine...but dont come with this "Greatest of All Time" shit Just cause Jay is better than most of the other garbage out nowadays doesnt mean he is in the realm of GOAT "

FYI, I am agreeing with you.

6/1/2007 11:33:37 AM

Quote :

"hahahahhaaha I rattled the cages of you radiohead fanboys for two pages worth of returns. which is exactly why they're overrated. Quote : "^ um, yeah, I'm gonna need you to explain to me how Radiohead is "pseudo intellectual"" because as soon as someone claims that they don't like radiohead, the automatic response is "oh that's just because you don't get it"

I'll definitely grant you that Radiohead has some really annoying fans. I just don't understand your argument. Essentially, you're suggesting that Radiohead is overrated purely because of a pseudo-intellectual fan-base who has forced some sort of metaphysical mystique over the band. How does your frustration with the fanbase correlate with Radiohead themselves (talent-wise) actually being overrated?

6/1/2007 11:33:40 AM

Quote :

"to me, charisma, street cred, and commercial appeal have absolutely NOTHING to do with being a good rapper. "

Understandable. But I hate when people act like Jay doesn't have lyrics. And Then say He takes BIG lines. If you took all the lines he used, you would only have maybe one song. How many songs does he have in his catalogue? And he doesn't even act like his lines either. Also, every rapper borrows from another rapper. Rap borrows lines, music, samples, etc.

What five out of the wu..Method, Rae, Ghostface, Deck & GZA? I respect your argument...

Most overrated is Lil Wayne!

6/1/2007 11:34:41 AM

^^ I don't think you fully comprehend the definition of the word "overrated."

6/1/2007 11:35:54 AM

RZA, GZA, Ghost, Rae, Meth, Deck...I'd rather hear ODB but that doesnt have to do with lyrical skills as much as overall character

and I dont think Jay got huge as much for using Biggie lines as he did by hiring the Neptunes...i mean Mystikal became a star overnight from Shake Ya Ass...and I dont think it was for his lyrical wordplay...and Jay just wasnt considered that great until Biggie and Big L died and there was kind of that void...although L obviously didnt enjoy the mainstream success that Biggie began to

6/1/2007 11:36:59 AM

look at these terrible lyrics

Quote :

"Been thinking about you, and there's no rest, shit I still love you, still see you in bed. But I'm playing with myself, and what do you care "

Quote :

"Limb by limb, tooth by tooth Tearing up inside of me "

I didnt know Radiohead was EMO

6/1/2007 11:43:34 AM

Tenacious D = UNDERrated!

6/1/2007 11:49:10 AM