Quote :

"The problem then comes where do we get this money I want to give to the instructors and how much am I willing to pay out of my own pocket in taxes."

That's decided on a county-by-county basis. Even in a poor-ish county like Cumberland we got $500 per year to order from catalogs. I imagine Wake gives even more. Also, all teachers are allowed to deduct $250 off of federal taxes for school supplies.


And I'm not sure any of the educators in this thread suggested that across the board raises would improve teacher quality. For one, 5% isn't going to make Johnny College Student decide to become a teacher instead of an engineer. Then, if it's across the board, it doesn't actually encourage anything other than the status quo, which sucks.


btw, how do some of ya'll keep it under 9 hours a day? . Are these non-EOC honors classes or something? I guess I could maybe average that after 5 years of plans, but still.

7/12/2007 3:26:19 PM

Quote :

"And I'm not sure any of the educators in this thread suggested that across the board raises would improve teacher quality. For one, 5% isn't going to make Johnny College Student decide to become a teacher instead of an engineer. "

I was addressing the topic of cutting teacher's raises and the many comments on teachers getting yearly raises as compared to the private sector.

Quote :

"Then, if it's across the board, it doesn't actually encourage anything other than the status quo, which sucks."

Thats exactly why I don't support across the board raises.

7/12/2007 3:36:44 PM

9 hours per day is nothing...that's basically average (at least in America...if you want to work 30 hours per week, move to France)

work a couple of consecutive 80-100 hour weeks, and average 60+, then we'll talk. oh, and then sometimes spend a week in the field working weekends, working 22 hours day, sleeping in a hole you dug...or have a job where you're never more than a couple of bad days away from losing your job, and you're at work every weekend at least one day, and an 18 hour day starting at 3 a.m. isn't particularly abnormal (and pulling an all-nighter isn't completely unheard of)...or a job that gives you just a few days notice to pack your things and move 3000 miles away...or a job that sends you to training where you don't eat for an entire week--while you're hiking through mountains in the desert, then you end up getting beaten and tortured for a few days...or a job that has you spending ~32 months out of a ~40 month period deployed to a combat zone...


i'm not saying that teachers live on Easy Street by any means...I mean, I wouldn't want to be a teacher (maybe a college prof, but not a school teacher)--but it's not the grueling nightmare that some of you are making it out to be.

7/12/2007 3:42:26 PM

you know what, nm, it's just not worth it

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 3:59 PM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 3:57:58 PM

^^Was anyone making it out to be a nightmare?

But in regards to the bulk of your post, the Military's way tougher in many ways, but ya'll get paid a crapload more than us along with better benefits. And when you're doing all the stuff you listed above, you get paid a crapload more on top of that existing crapload. Then there's the crapload you all get for your enlistment bonuses, and the crapload you all get in terms of tuition reimbursement.

After living in Fayettenam for a year and befriending current and ex-military peeps, I can't say my heart bleeds for your financial situations.

(Not dissing you or your profession, and not saying you're overpaid, I'm just saying that you all don't have much to complain about in terms of money issues.)

7/12/2007 4:44:12 PM

teachers and military both have pretty good job security (inherent with govt jobs)

and obviously the amount you get paid in any job is essentially determined by how much you make other people and how easily you can be replaced

ie Alex Rodriguez makes ~$30 million a year...but he makes the Yankees a shitload of money...and also there are a hell of a lot fewer people that can hit a 95 MPH fastball 450 feet than there are people who can teach high school, work in IT, work in the military, etc

and seriously...you get like 3-4 months vacation out of 12

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 4:55 PM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 4:52:42 PM

From page 1

Quote :

"Quote : "You try getting $28k a year when you start, having to be "highly qualified" (No Child Left Behind), dealing with over crouding, being the kids parents, and the list goes on. Also, you try having to be at work at 6:50 am and not being able to leave till 4:00 pm." boo fucking hoo. It must be a terrible job to pay great wages for a group of people that only work 9 months a year, gives time off for every state and federal holiday, provides health insurance and various benefits, and only makes you work 8 hours a day after you account for their lunch break."

Wages aren't great. We pay for a LOT out of pocket. We can't "take a day off" the first three years we work because all the days we earn go to mandatory holidays so we have to use a sick day or pay the 100+ for a sub....and then do the work that the sub didn't bother to do the next day. Between after school functions(usually one a week), parent and student conferences, mandatory "voluntary" gate keeping, and grading papers..that 8 hour day quickly becomes 10 to 12.

And that measly 30 minute lunch? Try standing in line for half of it and making phone calls, replying to email, or doing office paper work with one hand while you eat with the other.

I love my job and I don't bitch about the pay.........but it does irritate me when people just don't have a clue.

7/12/2007 8:27:54 PM

the majority of teachers work over the summer.

I'm working 2 jobs right now.

But once I have children I won't work over the summer (unless I have too) which will be great.


There are a lot of perks to teaching.
Yes, we have great benefits.
Yes, on a traditional calendar we get about 2 months off and a week for christmas and spring break.
Yes, if you are a seasoned teacher(have lesson plans & pps & tests already created) and can manage to do all your prep/grading/responsibilities/squeeze in mtgs/run copies/etc.. during the school day and maximize your planning period then you can leave by 3pm. I include a lot of labs and hands on activities in my lessons and need the afternoons to set them up. I also enjoy being an advisor to students clubs & organizations and like working with my students after school in the courtyard or raising lambs and helping prepare teams for competition. I may be only paid until 3pm but I stay because I need to get stuff done or enjoy working with the kids. I never leave before 4pm unless I have an appt. and am sometimes there until 6. I leave my house at 6:15 am. It's a long day.

What gets to me the most is how underappreciated teachers are in general. I don't claim to be saving the world but I know i've made a small, perhaps trivial difference for some of my students. And I enjoy the subjects I teach. It's hard to effectively manage a classroom of 20-30 high school students. Perhaps harder are the parents. They don't want to hold their children accountable for their actions and a failing grade is always somehow the teachers fault. that's if they even care enough to look at a progress report. It is disheartening that many parents/guardians don't take an interest in their childs progress in school. Whether we blame parents or just society in general.... but teenagers these days don't want to be held responsible or accountable for their actions, attitudes, or anything. So many of them don't know how or care to learn how to properly address an adult or their peers. I've been cussed at, harassed, disrespected, and practically attacked by some students in my school just because they feel like it and there are no consequences.. most of the time it's unwarranted. I hate lunch duty because I'm a target simply because I'm new, young, white and female. It's constantly having to defend my job and why teachers should be treated with respect. Having to beg for resources (even copy paper) from the school and county.. spending hundreds out of pocket so my classes can do something.

this is an argument that will be constantly repeated and everyone has their own opinion. I'm not saying that teachers have it any easier or harder than YOUR profession. I don't know what it's like to do YOUR job. I'm most likely not qualified for YOUR job and probably wouldn't find it interesting.
What bothers is when people say teachers have it so easy because we get vacations and leave by 3pm and have job security. Well yea when the state has thousands of vacancies for teachers every year.. there's a solid chance I"ll have a job next year. It bothers me when people think they have no other options for jobs and think of teaching as a last resort. That just anyone can pick it up that it's as simple as opening a book and writing on the board.

I've worked MANY consecutive 80-100 workweeks in my life. Even as young as 15 yrs old. Triple shifts on my feet. Physically and/or emotionally draining jobs.

My salary is enough to get by on. I never planned on making a lot of money and realize I won't make a fortune doing this.
I have just a few classes until I finish my masters and will go for my national board certification as soon as I can. I've thought about going back for my Doc and perhaps teaching college but I like the age group I teach (even though when I tell people i teach high school and they immediately say "I'm sorry")

/rant

7/12/2007 8:41:02 PM

Quote :

"Boone: ^^^ That's only if you work on the assumption that people are incapable of making rational decisions."

The question of whether or not we're capable is pointless if we repeatedly do not make rational decisions.

Irrational decisions are made so often that we can't just attribute them to individual character flaws. It is something greater than that--society.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Who makes up society except for teachers, the kids, the parents and everybody?"

Of course we make up society, but it remains an entity out of our control. One might suggest that there are certain people who have the ability to control it , but I'd disagree cause what they do with that control is out of their control so ultimately they also have no control.

7/12/2007 9:13:02 PM

You have smoked yourself retarded.

7/13/2007 1:51:11 AM

hmmm hmmm good weed hmmmm

(should be read with MST3K cadence)

7/13/2007 2:01:06 AM

^^^ WTF?!



[Edited on July 13, 2007 at 2:29 AM. Reason : .]

7/13/2007 2:29:07 AM

Quote :

"Of course we make up society, but it remains an entity out of our control."

Are people not able to control themselves, though?

This is the sort of thinking that perpetuates poverty and failure.

"It's society, maaaan."

7/13/2007 9:00:50 AM

Yeah working at a private school does not translate into higher salary. I have friends who teach at Emerson Waldorf High School in Chapel Hill, NC....and the teacher salaries at that private school range from 25,000-30,000....WHO THE FUCK CAN LIVE IN THE TRIANGLE OFF OF 25,000-30,000!! That's a fucking joke!! SERIOUSLY!!

7/13/2007 12:28:55 PM

Let's see:

One accusation of having smoked myself retarded. Another of being wasted. And finally, a set of rolly eyes.

Man, you guys really make a good case against my point.

7/13/2007 1:56:36 PM

What point did you make? That society is made up of the people, but the people are not society merely influenced by it, but they don't have influence on it, but they make up society? Your point is just a big circle that ends at nothing. Either society is or is not made up of the people, if it is made up of the people, then it is the fault of the people that society sucks.

7/13/2007 2:05:09 PM

ok, so a day later this shit still bugs me

Duke, I have plenty of respect for you. most of my roommates from the naval academy went marine. i know what the military life is like. i've been in those situations where you go weeks with nothing but catnaps and MRE's. but please don't try to pass it off as if you're pfc timmy in infantry making $30k and walking the streets of baghdad. you're an aviation officer flying in a jet. you're not landing in Ia Drang under small arms fire.

granted, one of my dorm next-door-neighbors died in a helo crash in the gulf and I know another dozen or so guys killed on the ground in the war, but please don't make it sound like TBS and SERE is the way you live your life week in and week out as a way to put down teachers who are underpaid. that would be like me trying to make my anti-terrorism unit out to be like the Navy SeALs.

7/13/2007 2:32:35 PM

Teachers hold one of the most important jobs in society...but just cause the job is important and worthwhile and positive natured, that doesnt mean its high paying...lots of important jobs arent high paying...but who goes into teaching expecting to become rich...regardless of how much of an influence you have on future generations, its still not exactly a job that requires some rare skill

7/13/2007 4:03:50 PM

btw...basing a teacher's salary based on test results isn't good...

the non English/Math teachers in Guilford county were really pissed this past year when Grier paid Math and English teachers almost 10000 extra to teach in the low performing schools.

Also there are times you really cannot get students to care about the material

7/13/2007 4:12:31 PM

^^Most jobs don't require a rare skill...what's your point?

A car salesman often makes more money than a teacher...do you get that point?

^^^^If you don't think society has an impact on you, that's your stupidity. And if you think you can control society, again...your stupidity.

The fact that individuals make up a society isn't relevant because one individual ain't shit compared to society.

I mentioned advertising earlier. You try to stand up as individual against advertising. We already know that advertising works so your only defense against it is to avoid it altogether. Try to go one week without being exposed to advertising. You cannot do it. All the Tivos and pop-up blockers in the world can't protect you. And that's society.

7/13/2007 9:00:35 PM

Quote :

"A car salesman often makes more money than a teacher"

there's an art form to being a good salesperson, and the commission pay scale weeds out the shitty ones fairly quickly. shitty teachers don't get weeded out unless they severely fuck up.

7/13/2007 9:07:09 PM

You might be a teacher if...
1. You find humor in other people's stupidity
2. You want to throttle the next person who tells you how lucky you are to have your summers off
3. You can tell if its a full moon without ever looking outside
4. Giving everyone an A would make your life SO much easier
5. When you mention 'vegetables' you are not talking about a food group
6. You think people should be required to get a permit before reproducing
7. You can't have children because there is not a name that exists that you would want to associate with your own offspring
8. Meeting a child's parents immediately answers the question, "What is wrong with this kid?"
9. You grade papers in the car, in front of the TV, in the bathroom, and in bed
10. You have superhuman kidney and bladder elasticity
11. You know it is better to seek forgiveness than to ask permission
12. You know the difference among what must be graded, what ought to be graded, and what probably should never again see the light of day
13. You can "sense" gum, candy, soda, cell phones, and iPods
14. You know that secretaries and custodians run the school
15. You will eat anything that is set out in the teacher's lounge
16. The primary reason you attend staff development meetings is for the free donuts and coffee
17. You can't help asking the quiet people at parties if they have anything to share with the group
18. You write your name conspicuously on all personal belongings including pens, pencils, staplers, hole punches, and tape dispensers
19. You are an expert at pretending to not hear comments that are perfectly intelligible to the rest of the people in the room
20. You are often given "advice" on how to do your job by every person ever to have gone to school before, and you are to do it with just a whiteboard marker, a few books, and a bulletin board, and on a starting salary that qualifies your family for food stamps in many states.

7/13/2007 9:33:26 PM

Quote :

"If you don't think society has an impact on you, that's your stupidity. And if you think you can control society, again...your stupidity."

Society having an impact and society controling me are two different things. Furthermore, I don't have to control society, just myself. If everyone has the power to control themselves, then society is controled. Therefore, it is the people that can't control themselves that cause society to degrade.

Quote :

"I mentioned advertising earlier. You try to stand up as individual against advertising. We already know that advertising works so your only defense against it is to avoid it altogether. Try to go one week without being exposed to advertising. You cannot do it. All the Tivos and pop-up blockers in the world can't protect you. And that's society."

I do pretty well against advertising. I buy what I need or want and nothing more. There is no need for advertising to control you, you simply need to learn to control yourself. I can't think of the last time an ad compelled me to do anything.

7/13/2007 10:56:11 PM

why do teachers have such a sense of entitlement ?

is it a consequence of their education, or is a consequence of their work ?

7/13/2007 10:59:22 PM

^same reason as soldiers

7/13/2007 11:16:29 PM

I used to want to be a lawyer, a doctor, and a teacher. Thanks to TheWolfWeb, I never want to leave Macaroni Grill. ($200 a night)

7/14/2007 1:13:43 AM

^^ what, they risk there lives on a daily basis at the risk of serious bodily injury ?

I mean maybe in some districts...

7/14/2007 4:11:25 AM

Quote :

"why do teachers have such a sense of entitlement ?"

entitled to...

...reasonable compensation?


THE NERVE

7/14/2007 8:21:55 AM

reasonable compensation according to them is $1000000000000000000000000000000000000?

7/14/2007 8:31:04 AM

Somewhere between $28k and $1000000000000000000000000000000000000 would be fine.

7/14/2007 8:57:30 AM

Quote :

"Thanks to TheWolfWeb, I never want to leave Macaroni Grill. ($200 a night)"

Now that's what I call lofty aspirations.

7/14/2007 9:58:14 AM

yeah, I have absolutely no desire to pay taxes either. All that sick / holiday / vacation time and insurance benefits is completely overrated too.

7/14/2007 10:04:22 AM

Quote :

"200 a night"

Well on a 5 hour shift thats $40 an hour.

7/14/2007 11:15:41 AM

Quote :

"reasonable compensation according to them is $1000000000000000000000000000000000000?"

reasonable is being able to afford a one bedroom apt on my salary. All decent one bedrooms around here are 1200+ and I bring home less than 2k a month. It could be done, but I would be living from paycheck to paycheck with no money for emergencies.

7/14/2007 3:26:01 PM

Quote :

"why do teachers have such a sense of entitlement ?"

It's a common characteristic of people who get a government paycheck.

7/14/2007 5:25:17 PM

If you want better pay, then you better come around to merit pay systems, just like every other job. And if not, accept your 5% pay raise and shut the fuck up.

7/14/2007 5:36:34 PM

^^HILARIOUS!




But seriously, I intend to be a teacher. I also hate teachers and hate people who hate teachers. A lot of hate coming from over here.

Every education class I've ever took I've been encouraged to talk to "veteran" teachers, learn from them, ask them questions, blah, blah, blah...and most of the teachers I've spoken with have been insufferable whiners. They all but come out and say, "I hate my job. Don't become a teacher. It sucks!" And they drone on about all the negatives of the job (which I'm familiar with). Or they like to talk about the times they've tried to "take on" the system in these long pointless stories...and I don't know how to tell them that I'm an ultimate badass, and even I find them arrogant...

However, the only reason teachers behave like that is because of all the ungrateful assholes who don't appreciate them or who look down on them. But teacher whining reinforces the opinions of the ungrateful assholes, and it's all one big circle of bullshit.

I think teachers are underpaid, and our ability to recruit excellent, smart teachers is hindered by that. But there are some real upsides to being a teacher. Retiring when you're 55 while your richy rich friends are still paying off their beach house (that you've gotten to use for free) is pretty sweet...

[Edited on July 14, 2007 at 5:52 PM. Reason : sss]

7/14/2007 5:37:20 PM

ok, so everyone that is having trouble getting paid as a teacher needs to move to my school in annapolis md. It is a low performing school that just went through a major overhaul, with all of the teachers having to work 12 months. When I started in 2005, I made 32k, I just found out that with our COLA of 6%, I will be making 45k (uncertified) this year, with the possibility of another 20k in bonuses for reaching goals over the next three years. We are still looking for teachers, so come on up. It is still expensive as hell to find housing around here, but that increase I just got this week is going to help make up for a lot of that.

I still feel for you guys in NC, but if you have the ability to move, go find a school like mine, in a unioned state, and make some good money. Hell I think they are paying 5-8k for a signing bonus at my school right now too.

7/16/2007 8:11:39 PM

but you have to live in maryland

7/16/2007 8:26:58 PM

eh, its not bad. I have a friend in DC, so I can go in there whenever I want.

7/16/2007 8:29:32 PM

it must be awesome to live in an area where the interstate doubles as a parking lot for 4 hours every day.

45k a year really isn't that much when you compare it to the cost of living in that area.

7/16/2007 8:37:50 PM