Quote :

"I think there is an inverse correlation between religiousness and intelligence"

Quote :

"Of the 43 studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and one's intelligence or educational level, all but four found an inverse connection. That is, the higher one's intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious. - Paul G. Bell in Mensa Magazine"

[Edited on December 13, 2007 at 5:39 PM. Reason : ^]

12/13/2007 5:38:21 PM

Quote :

""yes, there are parallels, but Christmas is fundamentally to celebrate the birth of Christ. Christ's Mass"

Historically, it was just another feast day. Just like Michaelmas, etc.

12/13/2007 5:57:30 PM

so ... hooksaw made a thread titled "Christmas Haters"

and the OP consisted entirely of:

bold
"quote"
link
snark
roll


...


why do i even bother coming here?

12/14/2007 12:07:47 AM

^ Because despite the fact that you've added nothing to the discussion here, you just can't stop yourself from clicking to get that little charge, can you?



^^ Then what's wrong with simply acknowledging the historical importance of Christmas and Christianity--particularly when it has been unanimously done for other faiths?

Quote :

"HR 847: 'Acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.'"

Whether you like Christmas and/or believe in Christianity or not, can anyone honestly say that these rituals and this religion are not important to millions of people around the world? What's wrong with simply acknowledging that as the resolution has?

[Edited on December 14, 2007 at 12:42 AM. Reason : .]

12/14/2007 12:41:17 AM

Do we have to do it every fucking year?

12/14/2007 12:52:37 AM

^ No. If the secular progressives will just stop fucking with Christmas and Christians every year, we could have quiet holidays--for once.

12/14/2007 1:34:40 AM

CHRISTMAS IS UNDER ATTACK !!!!


DEAR SWEET BABY JESUS, PLEASE SMITE THESE MOTHERFUCKING HIPPY ATHEISTS !!!!


fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

:grr: :rolly: :grr:

12/14/2007 2:16:02 AM

^ So you got nothing, right?

12/14/2007 2:40:00 AM

12/14/2007 2:32:02 PM

hooksaw:

Quote :

"Both of the other resolutions actually had the word "respect" in them--please note well that the Christmas resolution had no such wording. If you were to be candid--for once--you would have no choice but to admit that the Christmas resolution should have been even easier for anyone to accept because of its language."

Quote :

"Resolved, That the House of Representatives-- (1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the great religions of the world; (2) expresses continued support for Christians in the United States and worldwide; (3) acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Christmas and the Christian faith; (4) acknowledges and supports the role played by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization; (5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and (6) expresses its deepest respect to American Christians and Christians throughout the world."

[Edited on December 14, 2007 at 4:38 PM. Reason : i knew those slashes were in the wrong direction..]

12/14/2007 4:37:36 PM

^ I read an abbreviated version of the resolution at issue in the posted article. I regret the error.

In any event, I see nothing objectionable in the resolution at issue. Why the objections by some Democrats to this resolution and not to other similar resolutions?

12/17/2007 4:29:48 AM

Selectmen vote to limit "holiday" lights to combat "global warming":

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player06.html?121807/121807_oreilly_lights&OReilly_Factor&Global%20Warming%20vs.%20Christmas&acc&O%26%2339%3BReilly%20Factor&-1&Shows&306&&&col

12/19/2007 3:09:05 PM

it comes down to the fact that it's a government display. now i'm a big fan of picking and choosing battles. i'm atheist and i could give two shits what kind of decorations are up. i still say merry christmas because that's what i grew up with. doesn't mean i'm giving it the same meaning as other people. and that's the problem. people love to be "offended" (whatever the fuck that means because when i try to think about what's going on in someone's head when they say they are offended, i go cross-eyed)

on principle and by one of the major themes of our government, i'm all for the city not showing any religious displays. by the same token, i would probably be equally as content if they showed all displays. however, if i were to walk downtown and see a gigantic christian christmas display, it wouldn't offend me. i guess that's the beauty of being a rational sentient being

12/19/2007 4:54:14 PM

^ They're just lights--and to the best of my knowledge, none are in the shape of any religious icons. In any event, the selectmen's argument is supposedly based on their concern for the environment, not religious objections.

12/20/2007 1:29:03 PM

Quote :

"Selectmen vote to limit "holiday" lights to combat "global warming"

I only use LED holiday lights

and not too many

12/20/2007 2:33:21 PM

^ Yeah, but is banning a few "holiday" lights for ~30 days one time year really combating global warming or just Christmas?

12/20/2007 2:37:04 PM

two birds

j/k

12/20/2007 2:38:04 PM

12/20/2007 2:48:52 PM

Merry Christmas!

12/24/2007 1:20:52 AM

AARGH!

12/24/2007 2:06:41 AM

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12122007/news/regionalnews/jews_subway_hero_a_muslim_381263.htm
These guys love Christmas so much, they beat up a Jew for wishing another Jew happy hannukah, and a muslim attempted to save them:

Quote :

""A random Muslim guy jumped in and helped a Jewish guy on Hanukkah - that's a miracle," said Adler, an honors student at Hunter College. "He's basically a hero. Hassan jumped in to help us." But Askari, who is studying to be an accountant, shrugged off the praise. "I just did what I had to do," he recalled. "My parents raised me that way." ... It all began when Adler, his girlfriend, Maria Parsheva, and two other pals boarded the subway at Canal Street bound for Brooklyn and someone in another group wished them "Merry Christmas." Adler and his pal Angelica Krischanovich responded: "Happy Hanukkah." Apparently, those were fighting words. "They just came at us so fast. The first thing that came into my mind was, 'Yeah, this is going to be violent,' " said Parsheva, 20. One of the group immediately hiked up his sleeve to reveal a tattoo of Christ. "He said, 'Happy Hanukkah, that's when the Jews killed Jesus,' " said Adler. "

Crazy violent Christians.

12/24/2007 10:56:42 PM

bump by request

11/5/2009 11:14:29 PM

GIVE ME MY HOLIDAY BACK

[Edited on November 5, 2009 at 11:20 PM. Reason : ]

11/5/2009 11:18:41 PM

It begins. . .for 2009:

It's a 'Christmas' tree at the Ky. Capitol again (AP) – 1 day ago

Quote :

"FRANKFORT, Ky. — A spokeswoman for Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear says he's calling the tree on the Capitol's front lawn a 'Christmas' tree this holiday season. A statement from the administration last week sparked Christmas consternation by referring to the yet-to-be-chosen evergreen as a 'holiday' tree. Some Christians were perturbed by the terminology. Spokeswoman Kerri Richardson says the administration received a steady stream of e-mails and phone calls about the 'holiday' tree. She says it's always been a Christmas tree to the governor, and it will be this year, too. The governor is inviting critics of the 'Christmas' tree to a lighting ceremony Nov. 30."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gvgLBPF4L2i4LUG3L_bDgTJU7bbwD9BP0ULG1

Really? Must we go through this bullshit every Christmas?

11/5/2009 11:22:14 PM

Sadly yes. That is until Christians realize that Jesus actually wasn't born on December 25th and they stop hijacking the Winter Solstice.

11/6/2009 12:09:44 AM

can someone give even one example of a non-western country in which a segment of the population sued to keep a popular culturally historical and nationally significant holiday from being observed or recognized?

11/6/2009 12:10:01 AM

What's so fucking hard about keeping your dumb ass religion out of the public sphere?

11/6/2009 12:11:40 AM

nothing - i don't have a problem with excising references to christianity.

i'm just wondering if any non-western nations exhibit this phenomenon also. I suppose communist nations did something of the sort

11/6/2009 12:16:02 AM

^^^^ I actually like the term "Winter Solstice." It's the title of my favorite Christmas CD.



But we really shouldn't have to go through this shit every year.

^^^ Nope. And this bullshit of calling it "Winter Holiday"--like NCSU currently does--is on my nerves. So we're celebrating winter now?

[Edited on November 6, 2009 at 12:19 AM. Reason : .]

11/6/2009 12:18:55 AM

Quote :

"^ Nope. And this bullshit of calling it "Winter Holiday"--like NCSU currently does--is on my nerves. So we're celebrating winter now?"

Yes and you can pretend about baby Jesus to your heart's content just don't do it on the government's time or dime

11/6/2009 12:20:11 AM

^ Did you wear a robe when you graduated with whatever degree(s) you hold?

11/6/2009 12:21:20 AM

I didn't walk in grad school but yeah I wore a robe to my undergrad ceremony I can't even imagine what stupid direction this is going

11/6/2009 12:22:28 AM

^ Why did you help to perpetuate a nonsecular tradition?

Quote :

"Academic regalia dates from the European universities of the 12th and 13th centuries. Scholars, whether students or teachers, wore robes as those of a cleric."

http://www.ece.ncsu.edu/about/committees/graduation/59.pdf

11/6/2009 12:24:24 AM

Lots of traditions and words started in religion. Do you expect me to never use the word "theory" either?

How deep does your mental retardation run?

11/6/2009 12:26:31 AM

is it possible that a holiday was started in religion and has now been secularized, much like graduation robes?

[Edited on November 6, 2009 at 12:30 AM. Reason : s]

11/6/2009 12:28:24 AM

^^ Your cap was as that of a cleric, too. And you walked behind the NCSU academic mace, yes?

[Edited on November 6, 2009 at 12:29 AM. Reason : .]

11/6/2009 12:29:12 AM

Quote :

"is it possible that a holiday started in religion and has now been secularlized, much like graduation robes?"

Christmas is pretty secular now and the secular aspects don't bother me

hell, the religious parts don't really bother me either but I don't want to see the government endorsing these

hooksaw do you honestly expect me to abandon all traditions that were initially religious and then become secularized over time? Does this apply to Christians who adapted pagan traditions? Aspects of religion are all over our culture, should I not say "bless you" when somebody sneezes? (I do?)

11/6/2009 12:31:13 AM

^ Then stop picking and choosing on an ill-informed whim, asshole. You're not nearly as smart as you think you are.

Quote :

"The academic mace, first used in the 14th century, is descended from the club of Hercules. The scepter on the mace stands for lawful power and regal authority, and was carried by Zeus, the Greek God of moral law and order."

http://commencement.ucr.edu/traditions.html

And you're incessantly yammering with claims that some here are not qualified to make judgments concerning this or that--how are you qualified to judge the law or related administrative decisions?

This guy is qualified--and if you have an ounce of intellectual honesty, you'll defer to him since you're not an expert in the field at issue.

Quote :

"First, Christmas is in a sense two holidays: a Christian celebration of the birth of Jesus, and a secular winter holiday. Creches and the like are symbols of the religious Christmas, while trees and Santa Claus are among the trappings of the secular Christmas. Second, government participation in celebrating the secular Christmas is unproblematic. Third, celebrating the religious side of Christmas does risk violating the Constitution, but embedding the religious element in a secular context can mitigate the infirmity."

--Perry Dane, professor of law
Rutgers School of Law – Camden, NJ

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=947613

11/6/2009 12:37:00 AM

I agree that trees and Santa Claus, etc, are secular aspects of Christmas. I don't mind Christmas trees in public or as part of government functions as they're more a symbol of the secular aspects of the holiday. If it serves merely as a springboard for state endorsement of Christianity, though, then I'd rather see it removed.

Quote :

""The academic mace, first used in the 14th century, is descended from the club of Hercules. The scepter on the mace stands for lawful power and regal authority, and was carried by Zeus, the Greek God of moral law and order.""

Hahahaha oh boy I should burn my robes immediately. Additionally I'll stop doing science since it sprung from philosophy which was originally all theistic.

11/6/2009 12:40:09 AM

^ Concerning the former paragraph, then we are fairly close to agreement, which I know pains you greatly. Christmas trees are "unproblematic" as long as they aren't used to proselytize a specific religion--so we should stop this annual to and fro of ridiculousness and let government entities have their Christmas trees unfettered.

And concerning the latter paragraph, the point was that things change. After a prolonged exchange, it seems that you've finally grasped my spoon-fed point. You have a firm grasp of the obvious--GG!

11/6/2009 12:46:21 AM

Quote :

"^ Concerning the former paragraph, then we are fairly close to agreement, which I know pains you greatly. Christmas trees are "unproblematic" as long as they aren't used to proselytize a specific religion--so we should stop this annual to and fro of ridiculousness and let government entities have their Christmas trees unfettered."

Yeah for the most part. I wouldn't mind if they were called something else and might even prefer it. It doesn't bother me to agree with you on something.

Quote :

"And concerning the latter paragraph, the point was that things change. After a prolonged exchange, it seems that you've finally grasped my spoon-fed point. You have a firm grasp of the obvious--GG!"

I have no idea how to read the directions you go in because they're so unpredictably stupid.

11/6/2009 12:48:09 AM

^ It doesn't bother me to agree with you on something, either. Just stop being so damned obnoxious most of the time.

Just try me. I can be a very pleasant fellow when given the opportunity.

11/6/2009 12:50:42 AM

don't you mean unpredictable AND stupid? "unpredictably stupid" would mean that hooksaw can't be predicted to be stupid, which i doubt is what you were trying to say.

furthermore, you got pwn ITT.

11/6/2009 12:51:18 AM

Quote :

"don't you mean unpredictable AND stupid? "unpredictably stupid" would mean that hooksaw can't be predicted to be stupid, which i doubt is what you were trying to say. furthermore, you got pwn ITT."

Could also mean he's stupid in an unpredictable way. Jesus is there anything of zero consequence you won't press? Hurting for actual substance that bad?

11/6/2009 12:55:13 AM

no, unpredictably stupid can only mean one thing. one can not predict that his direction will be stupid.

11/6/2009 1:02:23 AM

Let's see if McDanger will bite

Swing from my left ball, nastoute's already occupying the right one

11/6/2009 1:04:47 AM

this thread is dumb. christmas wars are so 2000s... nobody is doing them anymore except a few people who probably still wear koolats

11/6/2009 1:06:09 AM

Quote :

"So we're celebrating winter now?"

I'm sure you don't need me to tell you the fact that humans have been celebrating winter far longer than they've been celebrating the incorrect birthday of Jesus.

11/6/2009 1:42:51 AM

I'd be perfectly happy if all aspects of Christmas disappeared, both secular and religious. Fucking holidays really chap my ass.

11/6/2009 1:58:38 AM

Well, hopefully you would see the necessity of times of celebration. Worship, rituals and celebration is arguably how humans have endured and advanced as a species.

11/6/2009 2:24:59 AM