Quote :

"AND that you weren't fraudulently misrepresented"

It's just that, many many folks were defrauded. Sure, there are also idiots that signed up for subprime like a college kid does a sidewalk credit card. Those people will be losing their homes.

Quote :

"Then you have no business taking out a multi hundred thousand dollar loan. PERIOD."

Who are you to decide they have no business? A loan officer and a lawyer in good faith said everything was fine. Why should they question otherwise? Through the wonders of signing obtuse and legalese contracts, the two former are for the most part insulated from any legal repercussions.

Quote :

"Why should they? They agreed to pay X per month, and they agreed to allow the interest rate to change. They agreed to it, let them pay it."

Like I said, you libertarians don't see the big picture. Sure, in your perfect libertarian world, these people should be allowed to default. And if that is allowed to happen the massive wave of foreclosings will make the already negative news about this crisis becomes even worse, tipping us past the breaking point and solidly into a recession. Like I already said, the policy makers are looking for a solution that walks the line between inflation and recession on this topic. This is before we consider the above point that many of these people were possibly (probably) defrauded on these loans.

Quote :

"Let them go bankrupt, let them take losses. They will learn their lesson or they will die."

Umm, thats exactly what happened and is happening, contradictory to your point that the government is helping them out. So what is your point?

Quote :

"You don't need a fucking four year degree to know that McDonalds is shit, and you don't need to not have a night cap to know that downing a case of beer an hour is bad for you. There is also a considerable difference between urging and FORCING."

Way to take pieces of my comment out of context and to the extreme! Yes, there is a difference between urging and forcing, when an example of forcing comes up (and this isn't one of them), I'll get my panties in a wad.

Quote :

"Still one person."

Just get out of the argument if this is the best you can do.

Quote :

"Which is why Bush is no longer in office right? And boy we sure got rid of that congress with the lowest approval rating in history right? Yes, it is considerably fucking different if the government does it, because if the government does it, we have to change the government AND the law AND society. If we do it as a whole, you only have to change society."

Impatient Americanism at is best. We are the Government, but big bureaucracies take a lot of time to change. Societies changing takes a lot of time as well. I'm not sure why you care either way, as long as the end results suits your needs. You can always move to another country if you are fed up.

12/19/2007 11:02:36 AM

Quote :

"whats with your recent big govt view anyway"

Quote :

"The constitution explicitly outlines the limits of government power."

We are talking about MUNICIPAL GOV't not Federal Gov't. Arguably I could say the 10th amendment gives city council as proxy of the state gov't
the ability to make ordinance changes to disallow new McFatburger and Taco Shits from opening.

I do not see what you are all so upset about. Do you really give a shit

12/19/2007 11:09:42 AM

Quote :

"It's just that, many many folks were defrauded."

Then let them sue the bank. Just because they were defrauded doesn't make the federal government and me liable for their payment.

Quote :

"Who are you to decide they have no business?"

Someone with an IQ above room temperature? Look, if you don't understand what you're getting into, you shouldn't get into it, especialy when you're putting your ass on the line.

Quote :

"A loan officer and a lawyer in good faith said everything was fine. Why should they question otherwise? "

Because it's their money and their ass on the line, not the lawyer's, not the loan officer's. When the used car salesman tells you that the car you're looking at is in great condition and well cared for, do you trust him or do you run a carfax report? And after you run the carfax, do you take that at face value or do you still have a mechanic you trust take a look? If people are that careful with a car, why the hell wouldn't they be more careful with a fucking multi hundred thousand dollar loan?

Quote :

"Through the wonders of signing obtuse and legalese contracts, the two former are for the most part insulated from any legal repercussions."

Agian, the fault of the person signing their name on the dotted line.

Quote :

"Like I said, you libertarians don't see the big picture. Sure, in your perfect libertarian world, these people should be allowed to default. And if that is allowed to happen the massive wave of foreclosings will make the already negative news about this crisis becomes even worse, tipping us past the breaking point and solidly into a recession."

Recessions are part of life. Everything can't always be moving up. Something has to give. Staving off small recessions only makes the inevitable big recession worse.

Quote :

"Way to take pieces of my comment out of context and to the extreme! Yes, there is a difference between urging and forcing, when an example of forcing comes up (and this isn't one of them), I'll get my panties in a wad. "

So you don't consider legaly mandating the way a community will develop to be forcing? What then do you consider forcing? Do they need to send an officer to your home and guard you while you cut the grass to regulation height before you complain?

Quote :

"Impatient Americanism at is best. We are the Government, but big bureaucracies take a lot of time to change. Societies changing takes a lot of time as well. I'm not sure why you care either way, as long as the end results suits your needs. You can always move to another country if you are fed up."

I care because it takes longer to change the government and the resulting policies than society and I also care because giving more power to the government is NEVER in our best interests when the solution can be accomplished without government involvement.

Quote :

"We are talking about MUNICIPAL GOV't not Federal Gov't. Arguably I could say the 10th amendment gives city council as proxy of the state gov't the ability to make ordinance changes to disallow new McFatburger and Taco Shits from opening. "

It also gives that authority to the people. And without compelling reasons why that power should belong to the state, it should belong to the people.

Quote :

"I do not see what you are all so upset about. Do you really give a shit"

I give a shit because the same thinking that leads to this shit is the same exact thinking that gave you the NPO. It's the same thinking that leads to curfews and the same thinking that leads to laws about who can be where, and what they can do in and around their own damn homes.

12/19/2007 2:49:35 PM

Want to Slim Down? Tax Soda
San Francisco's Mayor Proposes a Tax on Soft Drinks

Quote :

"San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom wants the city to slim down and he's going after stores that sell sugary soft drinks to finance the effort. If the plan is approved by the Board of Supervisors, the funds raised would help pay for a city initiative focusing on healthy eating and exercise. Newsom is framing the measure as a fight against chronic obesity, which strains the city's health-care system, but critics say the government is going way too far. David Harsanyi, author of the book 'Nanny State,' said, 'It's an egregious undermining of freedom. The freedom to choose what I eat and what I don't eat.' The American Beverage Association calls it a 'soda tax' and points out, among other things, that the government does not tax computer and video game manufacturers that are keeping people on the couch and out of shape. Opponents say personal freedom is under attack across the country [emphasis added]. But the charismatic mayor thinks obesity rates across America easily justify the measure. 'I think everybody in this country understands the cause-and-effect [relationship between] calorically sweetened beverages and incidences of obesity in this country, and obesity becoming an increasing, problematic health risk,' he said. According to Newsom, the fees are a small cost to bear in comparison to the 'obesity rates and overweight issues in this country.' Of the 65 percent of Americans considered overweight, studies show roughly one-third are considered 'obese,' weighing 30 more pounds over their ideal weight. 'That is a health-related cost that all of us are bearing and, in San Francisco, the numbers are consistent,' Newsom said. But some residents think it's one thing to discourage citizens from doing 'the wrong thing' and another to impose taxes that would force them to do 'the right thing.' But numerous cities and companies have done the latter. In southern Los Angeles, the City Council recently voted to stop fast food restaurants from opening for a year so that it could study the linkages among race, obesity and fast food. New York City imposed a trans-fat ban this summer, requiring that restaurants switch to ingredients that use less than half a gram of fat per serving for frying and spreads [emphasis added]. The companies L.L. Bean and Sodexho have imposed a 'Twinkie tax' — charging more for unhealthy snack foods in their cafeterias. The idea of taxing unhealthy products is premised on the alcohol and tobacco model. The rising costs of alcohol and tobacco products over the years, fueled in part by rising taxes, led to subsequent declines in their consumption. Studies have shown that as the cost of alcohol climbed in the 1980s and '90s, drinking declined. Smoking prohibition in restaurants and offices and exorbitant cigarette taxes have cut in half the number of male smokers and cut down the number of female smokers by 25 percent studies show [emphasis added]. More than 10 years ago, Kelly Brownell, the director of Yale's Center for Eating and Weight Disorders, suggested a Twinkie tax plan in which monies collected from junk-food taxes would fund healthy eating awareness programs and subsidize health foods. Brownell estimated that even a tax of 1 cent on each canned soft drink purchase would raise $1.5 billion per year. Taxing 1 cent on each bag of chips or snack food could, in theory, generate hundreds of millions of annually. U.S. News & World Report called the plan one of 16 'smart ideas to fix the world' in 1997. And the food industry has pushed back on this and others' ideas they believe are not so smart. The Center for Consumer Freedom, a nonprofit coalition of restaurants, food companies and consumers, called Brownell a 'food nanny' and likened his idea to a 'weed or a virus' that has spread all the way to England and New Zealand. The group also released a print ad with the caustic message: 'You are too stupid to make your own food choices.' It warned consumers about the 'food police' imposing taxes on foods 'they don't want you to eat' [emphasis added]."

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=4023221&page=1

Told you so.

12/21/2007 2:19:50 AM

When i have a car wreck or get a speeding ticket my auto insurance goes up.

Likewise I think fat people should have to pay more in health insurance since they are more likely to have health problems.

12/21/2007 12:47:51 PM

^ Um. . .the article above references a tax on all purchases of soft drinks--not just purchases by "fat people"--and define "fat."

12/21/2007 1:08:11 PM

^^ So let the insurance companies charge more, leave the government out of it.

12/21/2007 1:13:18 PM

DEYY TUKKK ERRR McD's n KFC's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

12/21/2007 3:09:30 PM

.... then they came for your 6 piece box, and your crappy soft white 60W bulbs.

what next?

Yellow #5, you betcha.

12/21/2007 7:46:56 PM

we got a federal mandate versus a local community that decided to make a change.

maybe we should start a revolt in Raleigh over all the fucking stupid ordinances we do not like here. 1337 has his guns lets storm the Raleigh capital building. If you don't like it vote the next years city councilman who will make a change. Chances are unless you are the Fat fuck who might have to walk an extra 2 blocks to reach a pre-exisiting McD's or are some stupid high school drop out who can only work at places like Taco Bell then this will really will not effect you.

12/21/2007 9:46:07 PM