Quote :

"The US has the highest per capita gun rate at 90 per 100 citizens. As it is, it would be very difficult for the government to control the masses if the masses were unified against it. "

I think the former statement is a little skewed as i know 9 out of 10 american adults do NOT own weapons. PER CAPITA this could very well be correct as many who will have a gun may have a couple guns if not a whole weapons case just b.c they collect them. So hopefully when the Civil War 2 breaks out these gun owners will unlock their can cases to help arm us haha.

As for the later perhaps you have been asleep the last 80 years but i'd say the federal government has a very nice sizeable foothold in peoples lives. It is all good since we are numbed down to life thanks to sitcoms, alcohol, BMW's, and their ipods.

Quote :

"see: Colonial American States, c. 1770"

I do not think 1770 america is a very good analogy. Perhaps in this time you are right and in 1770 blowing the horn and rallying the local militias would have swayed the federal government.

Perhaps we should also look at the number of uprisings that have also been suppressed.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 3:02 PM. Reason : a]

2/18/2008 3:00:46 PM

Quote :

"i carry my Sig EVERYWHERE I go, but I am a cop. I respect the rights of HONEST citizens to carry as well, I wish the laws were not as restrictive."

Indeed, guns are definitely part of the healthy lifestyle. Just ask this famous TWWer:

2/18/2008 9:05:45 PM

yeah. handguns are used for suicide more than anything else. oh and a false sense of security of course.

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 2:38 AM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 2:38:22 AM

what's wrong with suicide? (seriously)

I know at least 2 people that didn't use guns

are you suggesting that guns "make people" kill themselves?

your retarded logic never ceases to amaze me




also, let's be straight -- what is your ultimate point here?

that guns should be banned? is that what you're saying?

or are you just pointing out the inevitable downsides in life, just only pertaining to guns for some reason?

I mean, yeah, car crashes, poisonings, sexually transmitted diseases, etc. -- it's a jungle out there

but why are you picking on guns?

2/19/2008 4:30:23 AM

Handguns should be banned.

You can hunt and protect your home with long guns.

2/19/2008 9:00:42 AM

why should hand guns be banned? do you actually think it will lower crime with handguns? look at areas where they are banned and then look at the crime rate.

2/19/2008 9:29:19 AM

A ban can only work if they weren't present in the first place, and even then people will find a way to get them.

BTW, switzerland is another country with a very high percentage of firearm ownership. What's the crime like there?

2/19/2008 9:51:23 AM

The cities where they are banned generally have large areas with deplorable socioeconomic conditions. Poverty is a much more significant indicator of violent crime than handgun laws. Of course gun proliferation is not viewed as a problem in suburban and rural areas. Just because they aren't a problem here doesn't mean a different approach should be used in different locations.




Handguns have only on advantage over traditional long guns: they are concealable. This makes them ideal for criminal activity (armed robbery, homicide). There is a significant relationship in the availability of handguns and the number of homicides.



US Department of Justice

2/19/2008 9:52:34 AM

Quote :

"what's wrong with suicide? (seriously) I know at least 2 people that didn't use guns are you suggesting that guns "make people" kill themselves? your retarded logic never ceases to amaze me"

i don't have any MAJOR problem with suicide. though if some young person commits suicide because they just got dumped by their significant other and the gun is sitting in a room near them, i think that is unfortunate. if the gun hadn't been there, that person may well have not killed themselves. sure they may have tried taking a lot of pills or drinking a lot. but chances are they'd survive that and think better of their decision when they've come to.

if someone really wants to commit suicide, then they don't need a gun to do it. but it sure does make people who aren't incredibly committed to the idea take their own life with a quickness.

2/19/2008 9:58:42 AM

Quote :

"BTW, switzerland is another country with a very high percentage of firearm ownership. What's the crime like there?"

Switzerland is economically and ethnically homogeneous, with a vast social safety net and nearly the highest GDP per capita in all of Europe. Its ridiculous to assert that firearm ownership is the only predictor of violent crime. I enjoy some of your other posts, but you should be embarrassed for even offering such an argument.

2/19/2008 9:59:56 AM

Quote :

"Handguns should be banned. You can hunt and protect your home with long guns. "

foo sure gangsters and other wrong-doers will respect the law and refrain from possessing hand guns if they are illegal. I mean we ban drugs and that works so well

So Scuba i can not have a gun to protect my house and family if a criminal is breaking in to cause us harm. A rifle in this setting would be a little tough to wield in an indoor environment.

Besides just b.c guns are banned does not mean people can not go on these suicide rampages. Just look at the middle east. Following a ban instead of a mass shooter we might have a suicide bomber in the universities.

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 10:16 AM. Reason : l]

2/19/2008 10:14:15 AM

Quote :

"Handguns have only on advantage over traditional long guns: they are concealable. This makes them ideal for criminal activity (armed robbery, homicide). There is a significant relationship in the availability of handguns and the number of homicides."

and why dont you post the number of legally acquired hang guns used in those homicides? well that wouldnt fit your agenda so i guess we can ignore that. if we did in face ban hand guns do you really think that it would lower crime? do you think that someone wanting to commit a crime would worry about the legality of their weapon?

just look at the D.C. handgun ban. how much did that help crime?

2/19/2008 10:18:07 AM

DON'T WORRY FOLKS - the fine people at Westboro Baptist Church will take care of this mess for us
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=137028&src=143

Quote :

"Members of the Westboro Baptist Church of Kansas protest funerals because they believe horrible acts are God's revenge against homosexuals. According to their Web site, they plan to protest the funerals of Catalina Garcia and Ryanne Mace today because Northern Illinois University once hosted a conference featuring by a preacher who did not share their views."

2/19/2008 10:48:20 AM

Well if handgun proliferation is so prolific that current laws are meaningless, then thats a convincing argument for a total ban.

2/19/2008 10:49:48 AM

ummm what logic does that have?

if you ban them then ONLY the people committing crimes will have them and honest citizens will obey the law and will not own them and thus will be unable to defend themselves against those criminals with guns.

2/19/2008 10:52:33 AM

We should be blaming the evil of the criminals, rather than the so-called evil of their tools.

2/19/2008 10:52:54 AM

ain't gunna tuk my gunns

2/19/2008 11:37:44 AM

Quote :

"Switzerland is economically and ethnically homogeneous, with a vast social safety net and nearly the highest GDP per capita in all of Europe. Its ridiculous to assert that firearm ownership is the only predictor of violent crime. I enjoy some of your other posts, but you should be embarrassed for even offering such an argument."

That certainly seems to be the OP's argument, which is what my comment was directed at.

2/19/2008 11:41:22 AM

Quote :

"if you ban them then ONLY the people committing crimes will have them and honest citizens will obey the law and will not own them and thus will be unable to defend themselves against those criminals with guns."

not as many criminals will have them if they're far harder to acquire (again this assumes at least a generation for the law to have a real effect). and really i'm far less worried about the organized crime figure having a gun than a random crackhead who breaks into my house.

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 11:50 AM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 11:49:21 AM

I imagine that a crackhead would sell his gun to buy crack before he'd break into your house to get something else to sell and then buy crack. Crackheads, like most americans, want that instant gratification.

2/19/2008 11:54:31 AM

if you look at countries that ban guns, after the ban, crime involving guns goes UP not down. if you are a criminal wanting to break in a house to rob it what would be stopping you if you have a gun illegally but since guns are banned you are 99% positive the house you are breaking into is without a firearm? think how much easier it would be to rob a gas station if you know the guy behind the counter doesn't have a gun. criminals are scare of armed citizens more than anything. you take that away and crime will rise.

plus how does that ben franklin quote go? those who are willing to give up liberty for safety deserve neither

2/19/2008 12:17:22 PM

Quote :

"not as many criminals will have them if they're far harder to acquire (again this assumes at least a generation for the law to have a real effect). "

like marijuana right!!!

I think gun violence is more of a symptom of ailments in our society rather than the cause. Kinda like alcohol abuse.

2/19/2008 12:22:41 PM

certainly it's not the only cause. but that's not reason to just throw up our hands in defeat

Quote :

"if you look at countries that ban guns, after the ban, crime involving guns goes UP not down."

show me some stats. and i want long term. not 10 or 15 years. and again: i'd MUCH rather someone break into my house and steal something than someone break into my house, see me, fear i have a gun and shoot me.

Quote :

"plus how does that ben franklin quote go? those who are willing to give up liberty for safety deserve neither"

that has basically nothing to do with what you said

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 12:33 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 12:35 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 12:33:10 PM

bullshit it doesn't....if you want to ban guns in order to have a safer society what are you doing? giving up liberty in order to gain a little safety


edit:

I don't have any long term figures at the moment mainly because these figures don't exist for many nations since arms bans are more recent.

"Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered in 2002 that, "Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%."

* Canada: After enacting stringent gun control laws in 1991 and 1995, Canada has not made its citizens any safer. "The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic," says Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser in 2003. "Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted."

* England: According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.4"



I will look for more in depth statistics later...I am unable at the moment.

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 12:49 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 12:36:30 PM

also....

Quote :

"1. Washington D.C. enacted a virtual ban on handguns in 1976. Between 1976 and 1991, Washington D.C.'s homicide rate rose 200%, while the U.S. rate rose 12%. (1) 2. Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. At the time the law was passed, critics predicted increases in violence. The founder of the National Organization of Women, Betty Friedan stated: "lethal violence, even in self defense, only engenders more violence." (13) When the law went into effect, the Dade County Police began a program to record all arrest and non arrest incidents involving concealed carry licensees. Between September of 1987 and August of 1992, Dade County recorded 4 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. None of these crimes resulted in an injury. The record keeping program was abandoned in 1992 because there were not enough incidents to justify tracking them. (13)(15) 3. Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. Between 1987 and 1996, these changes occurred: homicide rate Florida -36% United States -0.4% firearm homicide rate Florida -37% United States +15% handgun homicide rate Florida -41% United States +24% 4. * In April of 1999, Bill and Hillary Clinton held a press conference on gun control legislation. Hillary Clinton stated: "And since the crime bill was enacted, 19 of the deadliest assault weapons are harder to find on our streets. We will never know how many tragedies we've avoided because of these efforts." (25) Assault weapons were involved in less than 1% of homicides before the assault weapons ban took effect in 1994. The same is true as of 1998. (3)"

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

This is a nice article about gun control in england.

http://www.haciendapub.com/article15.html

also if you really want hard statistical data read "More Guns Less Crime --- Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws" by University of Chicago professor John Lott and researcher David Mustard. This data has already been put together in a much nicer way than any of us can do...unfortunately it is not available for a cut and paste link so you will have to read it for yourself.

2/19/2008 3:43:53 PM

what do u anti-gun tards not understand we should be more worried about the reason gun violence is so high in this country and not scape goat gun ownership.

2/19/2008 4:01:32 PM

Quote :

"HUR: we should be more worried about the reason gun violence is so high"

Hell yes. Let's talk about it.

2/19/2008 6:25:32 PM

i supposed if i had the reason i could get a nobel prize or something.

2/19/2008 6:27:47 PM

more statistics...but im sure these will be ignored also

2/25/2008 8:25:00 PM

do you have any statistics on indictment rates for violent crimes between CCW holders and non-holders?

2/25/2008 9:45:24 PM