Quote :

"so these kid aren't a threat everywhere else in the country where they can carry a gun?"

You're right, they shouldn't have guns anywhere.

3/18/2008 9:28:34 AM

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 9:28 AM. Reason : 2 sec. too late]

3/18/2008 9:28:36 AM

those of you against this do realize that there are states in the US where it is perfectly legal for a CHL holder to carry on a college campus and you dont hear about any wild west shoot outs there?

i can carry legally at jimmy johns but if i cross the street it all of a sudden becomes illegal. why should that be?

3/18/2008 9:36:53 AM

Quote :

"those of you against this do realize that there are states in the US where it is perfectly legal for a CHL holder to carry on a college campus and you dont hear about any wild west shoot outs there?"

which ones are those?



[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 9:37 AM. Reason : im not doubting you, im curious.]

3/18/2008 9:37:44 AM

Quote :

"These arguments are completely contradictory though. If this argument was true then concealed weapons would have a larger impact on crime outside of campus and campus's would be a huge crime center. I don't see concealed weapons as a crime deterrent at all."

I argue that a school shooting and an armed robbery are different kinds of crimes, one which can't be deterred by the fear of a concealed weapon, and another which can.
I will agree with you on the crime-by-location thing, though. I know I can find crime rates by state proportional to CCW laws, but it's harder to figure things out by campus location. I don't know if crime rates are increased on campuses that disallow concealed carry within cities that allow concealed carry. Looks like I'm going fact-digging with my afternoon, because now I wanna figure this out.

3/18/2008 9:40:34 AM

I would join the protest, but I'm not on campus anymore

3/18/2008 9:41:45 AM

Quote :

"which ones are those?"

utah is one

3/18/2008 9:42:00 AM

You people can't take off your ideological handcuffs long enough to understand the relationship between cause and effect

The availability of weapons on campus means that they have a greater chance of being used and probably not for their intended purpose. People will die from accidental discharges if nothing else. People will die from misinterpreting others as threats and shooting first. People will die from incidents related to alcohol in dorms and those who have yet to be assessed for being mentally unstable.

And just because you have a concealed weapon doesn't mean you will have it ready when the time comes. And the proposition that NCSU students should walk around with guns drawn or at the ready would create highly unsafe environment. The university loses it focus as a place to provide education; people are more worried about their own physical security.

Finally, I've read these TWW posts. I wouldn't trust some of you asshats with supersoakers, let alone handguns.

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 9:43 AM. Reason : .]

3/18/2008 9:43:23 AM

you people

3/18/2008 9:43:40 AM

^^^ yeah utah http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/20/cnnu.guns/

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 9:43 AM. Reason : ^^^]

3/18/2008 9:43:50 AM

interesting...i didnt know that. apparently they are the only state that allows it.

3/18/2008 9:44:51 AM

Ahh Utah, a nearly homogenous state of white, middle and upper class Mormons. Frankly, anyone who carries a gun to class in that state is extremely paranoid and unable to adequately assess risk.

3/18/2008 9:47:19 AM

i believe indiana also allows it but im not 100% sure

some interesting statistics



also....

Quote :

"1. Washington D.C. enacted a virtual ban on handguns in 1976. Between 1976 and 1991, Washington D.C.'s homicide rate rose 200%, while the U.S. rate rose 12%. (1) 2. Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. At the time the law was passed, critics predicted increases in violence. The founder of the National Organization of Women, Betty Friedan stated: "lethal violence, even in self defense, only engenders more violence." (13) When the law went into effect, the Dade County Police began a program to record all arrest and non arrest incidents involving concealed carry licensees. Between September of 1987 and August of 1992, Dade County recorded 4 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. None of these crimes resulted in an injury. The record keeping program was abandoned in 1992 because there were not enough incidents to justify tracking them. (13)(15) 3. Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. Between 1987 and 1996, these changes occurred: homicide rate Florida -36% United States -0.4% firearm homicide rate Florida -37% United States +15% handgun homicide rate Florida -41% United States +24% 4. * In April of 1999, Bill and Hillary Clinton held a press conference on gun control legislation. Hillary Clinton stated: "And since the crime bill was enacted, 19 of the deadliest assault weapons are harder to find on our streets. We will never know how many tragedies we've avoided because of these efforts." (25) Assault weapons were involved in less than 1% of homicides before the assault weapons ban took effect in 1994. The same is true as of 1998. (3)"

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

3/18/2008 10:06:26 AM

I'm late to the party, but how did no one pick up on this:

Quote :

"no jacklog, but they should probably ban drugs then maybe you'd have a shot at a future"

Ummm . . . cause banning drugs obviously prevented leg, and everyone else from using them. For that matter, I'm pretty confident that if I went on to a college campus, I wouldn't find any drugs. None at all.

3/18/2008 10:14:36 AM

i can guarantee that there is probably a small handful of students that are carrying their guns to school here at NCSU.

Quote :

"People will die from accidental discharges if nothing else. People will die from misinterpreting others as threats and shooting first. People will die from incidents related to alcohol in dorms and those who have yet to be assessed for being mentally unstable."

accidental discharge, you have a better chance of dying from a fall than an accidental discharge.
hell, the gun is pointing down, and when you sit, its not like its pointing directly in front of you either.

alcohol related? cmon. that happens anywhere.

3/18/2008 10:27:17 AM

If I were still on campus I would participate in this. I'm tempted to go to campus and walk around with the empty holster just to participate.

3/18/2008 10:40:25 AM

Quote :

"Leave it up to the teachers and students. Have a campus-wide vote. If students aren't comfortable with their peers walking around with guns then they shouldn't walk around with guns. If teachers don't want guns in THEIR classroom then they should be able to say so as well. This is a democracy motherfucker "

You obviously missed some very important points in your education on democracy and its application in America. America's political system was never meant to be, nor never should it be, an absolute democracy. By your logic I should be able to hold a vote to decide if we should ban professors from giving exams, or if we should ban people from speaking out about concealed carry.

The consitution names rights which aren't meant to be "voted away" by the majority.

Quote :

" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

3/18/2008 10:57:53 AM

Quote :

"first, you aren't going to shoot anybody in self defense... you will be cowering under your desk with the rest of your classmates in the face of danger."

You're right. Because self defense does not entitle you to go hunting down someone on a rampage. But in the VT shooting, a professor blocked the door to prevent the shooter from gaining entry to the classroom and killing his students. That act alone saved all the students in the classroom, but cost the professor his life and the killer continued with his rampage. But what if that professor had a gun? All it takes is one.

Quote :

"Second, this is a place for learning...not gun slinging. There is no reason anyone should be carrying on campus unless you're a police officer."

If campus is not a place for gun slinging, why do people continually get shot on campuses around the country? Why do we have people mugging students in broad daylight with a gun on campus? Why do you need to give guns to your police on campus? After all, it's a gun free zone, why would they need to have guns?

Quote :

"Third, shooting someone, self-defense or not, will still get you a round trip ticket to pound me in the ass prison."

Which is significantly better than a one way ticket to a pine box.

Quote :

"There would be a school shooting every time some depressed student failed out of college or got dumped by some broad. I consider young, potentially paranoid and emotionally unstable undergrads with handguns a real threat; much, much greater than whatever perceived threat students identify from random crime."

Which is why every time one of these CCW holders gets depressed and fails out, they go a commit a shooting outside the school grounds right? It's just that magic "No guns on campus" rule that keeps them from taking their blood bath to the schools, right? I wonder how much that rule even played into the thoughts of the recent shooters?

Quote :

"The availability of weapons on campus means that they have a greater chance of being used and probably not for their intended purpose. People will die from accidental discharges if nothing else. People will die from misinterpreting others as threats and shooting first. People will die from incidents related to alcohol in dorms and those who have yet to be assessed for being mentally unstable. "

Because all of this happens every single day all across NC by valid CCW holders, it just doesn't happen on campus right? Again, what makes campus so different that the act of making it legal to do on campus what these people already do everywhere else will suddenly increase crime in your mind? Do you worry about these things happening to you every day when you're not in the magic shield of the campus borders?

Quote :

"And just because you have a concealed weapon doesn't mean you will have it ready when the time comes. "

Having no weapon guarantees you won't have it ready when the time comes.


In the end, what you are suggesting is there is something about college campuses that would make otherwise rational and sound people, who every day in every other place carry a gun on their person, suddenly lose their minds and start randomly shooting people.

3/18/2008 11:20:18 AM

yeah...

what he said..

3/18/2008 11:42:49 AM

Quote :

"By your logic I should be able to hold a vote to decide if we should ban professors from giving exams, or if we should ban people from speaking out about concealed carry."

Wrong, schools are places of education and giving exams are part of a schools mission (unless they have some alternative to exams). Your analogy is so incredibly flawed I can hardly believe you attended a college.

An appropriate analogy would have been: "By your logic I should be able to hold a vote to decide if we should ban (religious garb that masks the face, ski masks, racist clothing, etc.)"

And I would agree that if it was a large enough issue that the students should be able to decide what makes them feel comfortable and most conductive to learning.

3/18/2008 11:43:00 AM

^

Quote :

"If students aren't comfortable with their peers walking around with guns then they shouldn't walk around with guns."

But I'm not comfortable with having to take exams. We should have a vote!

3/18/2008 12:04:24 PM

Again, you're presenting an argument that isn't even close to being what mine is. You're argument changes the fundamental nature of schools, mine does not.

3/18/2008 12:06:56 PM

see, how would you even know if the guy next to you has a gun.

3/18/2008 12:06:56 PM

Quote :

"see, how would you even know if the guy next to you has a gun."

That is in no way reassuring whatsoever.

3/18/2008 12:17:18 PM

if i was eve carson i would be glad to have had a gun to protect myself.

it's not like allowing concealed carry on campus would open it up to just anybody to carry. you still have to complete the class for the concealed carry permit/license/whatever and you'd still have to pass the background check and possibly have letters of reference (depending on the county) to buy a handgun in the first place. after you have a CHP/CWP you don't need the pistol buying permit of course.

i'm all for it.

i don't think an open holster protest will accomplish anything though

3/18/2008 12:31:48 PM

Don't you realize SkankinMonky that the more guns that are on campus the less likely you are to get shot?

Everyone wants to be a hero.

I really love how rather than just say "hey, maybe we should re-evaluate the job campus police is doing" you'd all rather just have a bunch of random people carrying around guns just in case.

3/18/2008 1:43:56 PM

hey lets pay for more police

3/18/2008 1:53:56 PM

If students on a campus feel unsafe, it should be the responsibility of that campus administration and police to fix that.

Not Concealed Carry baonest (no offense).

3/18/2008 1:58:50 PM

lol

CCB f0 sh0

3/18/2008 2:00:24 PM

Quote :

"The availability of weapons on campus means that they have a greater chance of being used and probably not for their intended purpose."

Once again you've completely failed to realize the purpose of the protest.
The protest is to allow concealed handgun permitted individuals to carry on campus. CHP holders carry their guns around in public all the time, the proposal is to extend the areas they can legally carry to campuses.
These are the most stable people out there. They've completed the required courses, have had background checks that are more detailed than required to buy a handgun, and have been finger printed at the sheriff's office.

Quote :

"The VT killer had a legal gun license, remember?"

He had a purchasing permit.
That's vastly different than a concealed handgun permit.

Fucking idiots...

3/18/2008 2:06:58 PM

Quote :

"I really love how rather than just say "hey, maybe we should re-evaluate the job campus police is doing" you'd all rather just have a bunch of random people carrying around guns just in case."

I'm sorry dude, but police are just for clean-up. How many times have you heard about a police officer actively preventing a crime? It doesn't happen much. The idea of placing your well-being entirely into the hands of the police is nuts IMO. And it wouldn't be random people. I don't think some of you guys realize how much work it is to get a concealed carry permit.

Plus, hearing about someone getting arrested on the news for armed robbery won't be nearly as much of a deterrent as hearing about someone getting their brains blown out while attempting an armed robbery.

3/18/2008 2:30:17 PM

I don't think you realize how many of us really don't care how hard it is to get a concealed carry permit, since more than likely for every person who has a concealed weapon to feel safer, there's another person who feels unsafe because someone else has that concealed weapon.

And you're right, who would want the police to do their jobs when we've got a bunch of guys with guns ready to act?

3/18/2008 2:43:09 PM

^ do you feel unsafe when you go out to the mall or anywhere in public?

those people can carry there. why is a school any different?

3/18/2008 2:51:29 PM

exactly

it's concealed. you won't know any different.

3/18/2008 2:54:19 PM

Do I feel unsafe? No.

But would I feel safer knowing that no one around me had a gun? Of course.

3/18/2008 2:56:45 PM

so you feel safer knowing that a potential robber/murderer knows for a fact that you are unarmed?

and by the way just because the law says they are illegal does not mean that they cannot exist on campus. just like drugs. they are against the law but they still are everywhere.

3/18/2008 3:01:10 PM

Quote :

" and by the way just because the law says they are illegal does not mean that they cannot exist on campus. just like drugs. they are against the law but they still are everywhere"

Well since you're trying to be a cowboy I'd suggest anyone with guns on campus should be shot first and questions asked later. They're all criminals anyway, right?

3/18/2008 3:02:41 PM

that makes no sense

ftl

3/18/2008 3:05:23 PM

Quote :

"And you're right, who would want the police to do their jobs when we've got a bunch of guys with guns ready to act?"

Ready to STRIKE

3/18/2008 3:05:27 PM

Quote :

"so you feel safer knowing that a potential robber/murderer knows for a fact that you are unarmed?"

Despite the fact that that's not what I said, let me say this as well.

If a robber or murderer is serious and has a gun on me, the fact that I have a gun in my pocket isn't going to be helping me. More than likely, once he's done I'll be dead and he'll have my gun as well.

Which really just makes the scenario even better!

3/18/2008 3:08:55 PM

no but what you did say is you feel safer knowing no one around you has a gun...the problem is you cannot know this for sure because there is nothing actually preventing someone to have a gun, and two if you feel safer im sure so does someone wanting to rob you

3/18/2008 3:11:12 PM

I know something better than guns for you guys.

Xanax.

Calm the fuck down.

3/18/2008 3:12:54 PM

you realize that you can legally carry knives up to a certain size on your person, correct? why not do this? why do you need to carry a weapon thats only purpose is to kill other human beings? I could understand if you said you wanted to carry mace or a tazer, but a fucking gun? Get real.

3/18/2008 3:12:59 PM

Quote :

"no but what you did say is you feel safer knowing no one around you has a gun...the problem is you cannot know this for sure because there is nothing actually preventing someone to have a gun, and two if you feel safer im sure so does someone wanting to rob you"

I'm more than content with the fact that the illusion of safety I live under has fewer lethal weapons than the illusion of safety you live under.

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 3:14 PM. Reason : .]

3/18/2008 3:14:18 PM

a knife sure would have done a lot of good in the VT shootings or the NIU shootings huh?

and i already carry a knife thanks

3/18/2008 3:14:24 PM

i carried a knife on campus.

stabbing is a much more personal act and requires you to be in much closer proximity. no thanks.

i don't want to carry a fucking gun, just a regular gun would be fine.

3/18/2008 3:14:49 PM

The best comment in the thread is about BEING A HERO.

EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE THE HERRRRRRROOOOOOOOOO.

3/18/2008 3:15:49 PM

Ranged blades ftw.

3/18/2008 3:18:59 PM

Since you people are constantly using all this campus violence as an excuse to wanna tote guns around on campus, maybe you need to take a different approach that's a lot less self-righteous:

reform the mental health system in this country. It's recently been talked about how much it's failing in NC.

Oh, nevermind. Because most of the gun hungry people here aren't even in favor of everyone receiving adequate or equal healthcare.

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 3:35 PM. Reason : fd]

3/18/2008 3:22:20 PM

stereotyping FTL

i am very much for gun rights as well as gay rights abortion rights universal healthcare stem cell research oil alternatives weed legalization etc


ooh ooh SET EM UP

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 3:31 PM. Reason : damn]

3/18/2008 3:27:26 PM