Are you so shrill/frothy that you'll blindly accept the popular vote argument?

A) it ignores caucus states
B) it includes Michigan and Florida

6/2/2008 1:09:35 PM

Quote :

"Tell me who has the popular vote, it ain't hillary. The popular vote argument is specious and flawed from the get go, since states like Nevada, Washington, Iowa, Maine do not report the actual vote at the precincts, only which candidate won the precinct. This isn't Calvinball, you don't get to change the rules as the game progresses."

so the counted popular vote shouldn't matter? wow. she's winning the hispanic vote, and the white vote.

6/2/2008 1:10:19 PM

Nutz,

Talk about not being able to follow a conversation. Boone said the Dems would be better off if Hillary supporters left the party (apparently because they're all "shrill"). I was just pointing out who the fuck that would include (since apparently Boone is pretending it will just be Puerto Rico and WV). If Hillary supporters in those states don't vote Democrat, THEN THEY WON'T VOTE DEMOCRAT!!!



Isn't that simple?

[Edited on June 2, 2008 at 1:11 PM. Reason : ``]

6/2/2008 1:10:41 PM

Quote :

"so the counted popular vote shouldn't matter?"

Why should it matter when it's obvious that it isn't an accurate representation of the actual vote?


^ And I was being entirely serious, too.



[Edited on June 2, 2008 at 1:12 PM. Reason : ,]

6/2/2008 1:11:09 PM

It was all part of a setup to help obama. Everyone knew Hillary would win Michigan easily and by taking his name off the ballot Obama pleased a lot of people in nh and iowa. Without doing that maybe he loses. Caucuses are held on weeknights. Well many Hillary voters are old, blue collar working or don't have a car so that benefits Obama right there. If Florida and Michigan were done straight up Hillary would have benefited from them much more than she has now. So many things but still she is winning and this whole time they wanted her to quit before she recovered but its too late now and that the people have spoken, the only way for Obama to win is for super delegates to go against the people and choose him which is something I think has only happened once.

6/2/2008 1:13:30 PM

^^so there's clerical errors? what?

in that case, the Dems should redo this completely over again. let's just have 1 huge primary day, and let's see how obama does now.

lol. i know you wouldn't want to see that. i know.

[Edited on June 2, 2008 at 1:13 PM. Reason : ^^]

6/2/2008 1:13:39 PM

Quote :

"The popular vote argument is specious and flawed from the get go, since states like Nevada, Washington, Iowa, Maine do not report the actual vote at the precincts, only which candidate won the precinct."

6/2/2008 1:19:34 PM

oh so now it's obamas camp that resorts to using those states when you're the losers of the popular vote. lol

OBAMA AUTO DEFENSE TURRETS ACTIVATED



[Edited on June 2, 2008 at 1:25 PM. Reason : .]

6/2/2008 1:22:21 PM

Quote :

"If Florida and Michigan were done straight up Hillary would have benefited from them much more than she has now."

So you're saying in a state where her name was the only one on the ballot and 40% of the people voted AGAINST her that she would have done better if Edwards, Obama, etc. were all on the ballot?

6/2/2008 1:24:10 PM

Let's put numbers on this folks. Too many people are talking out of their asses.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

If you include FL and MI (giving uncommitted votes to Obama since he was not on the ballot), Hillary is leading the popular vote by 65.5 thousand votes.

The only way Obama can win is if you add *estimates* for the caucuses in IA, NV, etc. And even then he only leads by 44 thousand votes. Not the strongest of showings.

Now, of course, I still expect Obama to win the nomination (popular vote means diddley). But I love seeing the Obamaniacs getting so pissed off. "How dare you question Obama's support! Haven't you been to his ralleys!?!?"

[Edited on June 2, 2008 at 1:26 PM. Reason : ``]

6/2/2008 1:24:38 PM

Quote :

"so there's clerical errors? what?"

"Popular vote" totals don't include caucus states? Is the problem that you don't know what a caucus is? This is the only reason I can think of why you wouldn't get this.

Quote :

"It was all part of a setup to help obama."

Oh, right. Because Obama is such a Democratic insider and what-not. Especially compared to Clinton, the outsider with no connections.

Quote :

"Everyone knew Hillary would win Michigan easily"

O RLY?

Quote :

"Caucuses are held on weeknights. Well many Hillary voters are old, blue collar working or don't have a car so that benefits Obama right there."

Caucus nights also tend to fall on bingo nights, so Hillary has the clear advantage.

Quote :

"the only way for Obama to win is for super delegates to go against the people and choose him which is something I think has only happened once."

Serious question-- are you a troll?

6/2/2008 1:26:31 PM

Quote :

"But I love seeing the Obamaniacs getting so pissed off. "How dare you question Obama's support! Haven't you been to his ralleys!?!?" "

Yea except the only people who espouse shit like that are people like you who are trying to exaggerate every point you don't like, not any of his actual supporters.

6/2/2008 1:26:41 PM

So basically he's won because he's raped over 95% of the black vote?

nice to know. this kind of sucks, i was hoping for a democratic victory this year to lay it to rest once and for all that democrats in the whitehouse is a no-no for america.

oh well, you can start printing your victory banners mccain.

6/2/2008 1:27:15 PM

Quote :

"even then he only leads by 44 thousand votes. Not the strongest of showings."

Neither is Hillary's 65 thousand vote lead.

And recall George Bush winning the election without winning the popular vote. Same thing can and more than likely will happen with Obama.

6/2/2008 1:28:30 PM

How are you to gauge the voter turn out for Nevada, Iowa, Maine, Washington when they do not report the actual popular vote in those states? Estimates are the only thing to work with there.

You have hillary screaming about counting Flordia and michigan, but she won't count Iowa, Maine, Washington, or Nevada.

In the only true metric for determining the winner, delegates, she is behind.

As I said before, this isn't Calvinball. You don't get to make up the rules as you go along.

6/2/2008 1:29:09 PM

Quote :

"Oh, right. Because Obama is such a Democratic insider and what-not. Especially compared to Clinton, the outsider with no connections."

ok you're just reaching now. Obama TOOK his name off the ballot.

6/2/2008 1:31:31 PM

^^ The rule books say Obama doesn't win either pal. Neither he nor Hill have enough delegates going into the convention to win the nomination. Thus, it all comes down to wooing superdelegates--hence her popular vote and electability arguments. Where have you been? She IS playing by the rules. Obamaniacs just don't like it.

[Edited on June 2, 2008 at 1:34 PM. Reason : ``]

6/2/2008 1:34:13 PM

Ok, screw the polls. Even "realclearpolitics" isn't even clear about it.

Get out your spreadsheets and tally up the total votes. Forget about the "theoretical states" where there was no popular vote and let's just count the peoples vote and you get:

17,389,253 Obama
17,692,976 Clinton


Clinton wins the popular vote. Obama shouldn't be a bastard to remove his name from a ballot.

Fact is: he is losing the popular vote. You can argue all you want SkankinMonkey / Nutsmacker etal.

6/2/2008 1:35:08 PM

Superdelegates are part of the rule book. If they are to use the electability argument, then places like Puerto Rico, Guam, US virgin Isles should be tossed otu of the popular vote total since their votes count for jack come November. Guess whose percentage of the popular vote changes for the better when that is done. Hint, it isn't hillary.

so again, electibility argument holds nothing.

Quote :

"Get out your spreadsheets and tally up the total votes. Forget about the "theoretical states" where there was no popular vote and let's just count the peoples vote and you get: 17,389,253 Obama 17,692,976 Clinton Clinton wins the popular vote. Obama shouldn't be a bastard to remove his name from a ballot. "

So you are saying the people of Nevada, Washington, Iowa, Maine don't count? They some how now count less than the people of Puerto Rico?

[Edited on June 2, 2008 at 1:38 PM. Reason : .]

6/2/2008 1:36:47 PM

Fact is: the "popular vote" leaves out four states.

6/2/2008 1:37:29 PM

Fact is: more americans have written on a piece of paper that they like Hillary Clinton better than Obama

6/2/2008 1:38:37 PM

and even if that were true (which it isn't), it wouldn't matter because the candidate isn't chosen by the popular vote.

6/2/2008 1:41:57 PM

Fact is: four states don't vote via ballots.


Are you really not getting this? Is this all you can muster when you aren't quoting Limbaugh?

6/2/2008 1:43:35 PM

it's pretty apparent you're getting trolled

6/2/2008 1:44:13 PM

I know you wouldn't dare run a national popular vote b/c that my good friend would be the will of the people. Which is the anit-mantra of the Democratic party. Your power would be wasted on such nonsense.

6/2/2008 1:45:20 PM

So who is Rat?

6/2/2008 1:48:25 PM

6/2/2008 1:50:16 PM

Quote :

"I think it is fair to say that I believe I can bring the country together more effectively than she can"

Barack Obama - August 2007
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/14/AR2007081401939.html

And this thread only proves his point.
November is going to be fun.

6/2/2008 1:51:25 PM

so clinton is running as a divider then?

6/2/2008 1:53:27 PM

Quote :

"so clinton is running as a divider then?"

omy. i think he's onto something now.

6/2/2008 1:55:18 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/02/superdelegates/index.html

Quote :

"Story Highlights Group of superdelegates to back Obama after Tuesday's contests, sources say Obama needs 46 delegates to get nomination; Clinton needs 202 31 delegates at stake Tuesday; 202 superdelegates remain uncommitted Clinton argues that superdelegates are free to "change their minds" "

6/2/2008 3:29:54 PM

Quote :

"He was doing well before people learned that he doesn't want to hlep gas prices"

haha this is hilarious

6/2/2008 3:36:16 PM

^yea, seriously.

I wonder if that person is referring to the completely ridiculous gas tax holiday that would lower gas prices by a measily 18 cents (roughly) and save people about 50 bucks over summer and cost DOTs 10 billion dollars. Yup, what a wonderful way to help gas prices.

[Edited on June 2, 2008 at 3:42 PM. Reason : asdf]

6/2/2008 3:42:35 PM

especially when NONE of the candidates (who are all senators) actually wrote a bill that would do this.

6/2/2008 3:45:05 PM

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/06/02/sot.bill.clinton.last.cnn

looks like bill has given up on her winning as well.

6/2/2008 3:48:16 PM

^^^suspending the gas tax makes prices go up


obama doesnt want to do it cause his state has tried before and it didnt work

6/2/2008 3:51:12 PM

yea, nah that's what i mean, obama is against it. the quote made it sound like him being against it was a bad idea, at least it sounded like that to me, but yea you get the point

6/2/2008 3:52:48 PM

apparently she's planning a speech in NY tomorrow night that many are anticipating will be a concession speech/endorsement of obama.

Quote :

" Hillary Clinton has summoned top donors and backers to attend her New York speech tomorrow night in an unusual move that is being widely interpreted to mean she plans to suspend her campaign and endorse Barack Obama. Obama and Clinton spoke Sunday night and agreed that their staffs should begin negotiations over post-primary activities, according to reliable sources. In addition to seeking Obama's help in raising money to pay off some $20 million-plus in debts, Clinton is known to want Obama to assist black officials who endorsed her and who are now taking constituent heat, including, in some cases, primary challenges from pro-Obama politicians. "This has never happened before," one donor said, referring to the personalized request by email to attend the event in New York Tuesday night. Obama is expected to claim enough delegates to put him over the top that night at a separate event in St. Paul. Earlier in the day it was reported that Clinton staffers were being urged by the campaign's finance department "to turn in their outstanding expense receipts by the end of the week," another sign that the run at the White House was nearing an end. In addition, Politico wrote that members of Clinton's advance staff had received calls and emails Sunday night, summoning them to New York City and telling them their roles on the campaign are ending. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/02/clinton-summons-top-donor_n_104715.html

Quote :

" What's Sen. Clinton going to do this week? I subscribe to the premise that she has shared her thoughts about her future with very few of her friends and colleagues. Nonetheless, here are some clues: (1) She's going to speak Tuesday night from New York, not from South Dakota or Montana. (2) The Politico reports that members of her advance staff are being recalled to New York and being given hints that their employment is over; yes, Clinton won't have any more states to campaign in, but the Obama campaign is not shedding its advance staff after Tuesday (3) Cheryl Mills, a very senior Clinton adviser, intends to return, full-time, to her job as senior vice president at New York University. (4) Junior members of the staff are making plans for vacation, and they're not receiving any push-back from their bosses."

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/06/clinton_clues.php

i'll believe it when i see it. but it does look fairly good

[Edited on June 2, 2008 at 3:55 PM. Reason : l]

6/2/2008 3:54:51 PM

not reading this thread, but i just wanted to come in and say i cant wait to watch the democractic party implode.

6/2/2008 3:57:42 PM

^lol. cheers. well said.

6/2/2008 4:07:08 PM

i thought the past like 2 months has been the "implosion" and like now we are gonna beat mccain???

6/2/2008 4:11:58 PM

i don't know. republicans haven't looked too good in head-to-head competitions with democrats so far this year.

6/2/2008 4:22:21 PM

According to electoral-vote.com

276/238 Obama/Mccain (24 tied)
327/194 Clinton/Mccain (17 tied)


So yes, democrats win regardless.

6/2/2008 4:23:59 PM

I can assure you Hillary won't be dropping out in New York. Just a lot of wishful thinking from Obama girls.

6/2/2008 4:31:47 PM

If she does, will you commit seppuku?

6/2/2008 4:34:19 PM

^^all the people I know who work for Hillary, legitimate jobs, have acknowledged that this is over. They have all gotten their last paychecks and now have moved onto other races.

6/2/2008 6:42:51 PM

I think it's a load of horsecrap for Obama to help Hillary recoup all the money she wasted on the election, especially since that money will undoubtedly come from supporters of his cause. She invested into her campaign for nothing in return. Such is life. She's still rich, biatch!

6/2/2008 11:52:20 PM

might be obamas way of telling her shes not getting vp

6/3/2008 5:04:31 AM

best troll ever

6/3/2008 5:21:35 AM

no seriously...hes probably like i'll help you get out of that debt but you sure as fuck aint getting vp

[Edited on June 3, 2008 at 5:23 AM. Reason : appreciate the compliment tho]

6/3/2008 5:22:33 AM