Whether some of the Obamacrats here think so or not, Obama's flip-flop on this issue is a fairly big deal. It was a main topic of discussion on ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos--not FOX News or other cable outlets--this is the mainstream media.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5220764

As was indicated in the discussion ^, is it lethal? No. Does it matter? Yes.

6/23/2008 7:57:21 PM

There is a scale of matter and quite frankly, that flip-flop ranks near the bottom. Sure it may register a 1, but the problem is the scale goes to 1,000,000.

6/23/2008 8:03:58 PM

^ Actually, there are many scales. There's the scale of something being important, but the public doesn't really care about it or it doesn't register--they may not fully understand the issue and so on. And there's the scale of short-term gains and long-term gains.

As a result of his financing flip-flop--and make no mistake, it is a flip-flop--Obama will gain short-term money. He will lose long-term credibility, though--and money can't buy that.

6/23/2008 8:12:55 PM

George Stephanopolous was the guy who asked Obama if being black was responsible for his "cool style." He clearly doesn't like Obama and his opinion is not as important as you make it out to be.

6/23/2008 8:16:57 PM

In the long term it will not have any effect at all.

Iraq, Energy, Taxes, Health Care will be the issues that decide the election, not his change on financing.

This is not a "I voted for it before I voted against it." This is something only wonks give a damn about.

Negative effect - -1
Positive - 6

Total gain - 5

6/23/2008 8:17:04 PM

^^ Stephanopoulos is a liberal--and no friend of the Clintons. In addition, I never indicated that his opinion was so "important"--I clearly indicated that his show is part of the mainstream media. BTW, there were no rabid right-wingers on that panel.

I'm not surprised that you made incorrect assumptions and missed a number of things. You usually do.

^ Perhaps. We'll see.

6/23/2008 8:38:42 PM

^ "no friend of the clintons" ha!

he has been defending clintons for years
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/18/stephanopoulos-once-criti_n_97363.html

IT's irrelevant though how he feels about CLinton but your posts hinge on strawmen and herrings. You're showing your doltishness if you don't realize that stephanopolous just doesn't like obama.

6/23/2008 8:41:52 PM

^^^ Nice numbering system, but I think you're wrong.

He has gotten this far with the whole "I am not a typical politician" talk. He can not afford to lose credibility in this way. Regardless of how he or Obama supporters try to spin it, it appears like he was all for a level playing field in terms of equal financing before; and now that he knows he can raise much more money and have a financial advantage, he is going to opt out of the public system.

If the roles were reversed I'd be willing to bet Obama would be taking the public money and criticizing McCain for raising his money from "special interest groups" and "lobbyists".

Bottom line for me is, I am willing to give Obama a fair shot in terms of earning my vote, but when things like this happen it makes me question everything he's said, not just on campaign finance. I think he made a bad decision to not accept the public money because it would have shown he was a man of his word regardless of whether or not it is the best political move. It's disappointing because now I kinda look at him like I do every politician as opposed to the "agent of change" he is so eager to portray.



[Edited on June 23, 2008 at 8:45 PM. Reason : forgot a few words]

6/23/2008 8:42:14 PM

It'll come up in the debates.

And depending on the exchange, it could very well hurt Obama with independents.

Obamacrats aren't gonna change their vote based on this issue. but independents may look at it as a sign that Obama cares more about getting elected than that whole "change" message his campaign is founded on. It's not an issue that people normally get too worked up about, but this is a very blatant flip-flop.

6/23/2008 11:01:47 PM

^^What are you going to make your decisions on? Public financing or the Iraq war, the economy, energy, the environment, or taxes?

6/23/2008 11:12:15 PM

I can't speak for him, but for me this pertains to the most important issue in every election: Character

6/23/2008 11:28:33 PM

^ Agreed!

^^ If he can go back on his word about campaign finance when it politically benefits him before the election, then I assume he is capable of going back on his word on other issues after he gets elected.

Basically, a candidate (republican or democrat) can tell you anything they want about what they plan to do when they get into office, but if you don't believe they will actually follow through with it then everything they told you was meaningless.

It all goes back to character. Do they believe in something and stand up for it regardless of the possible political consequences? or do they tell people what they want to hear to get elected and then when they assume power just do whatever they want to do anyways.

I can disagree with someone on what is the best solution to a problem, but if I don't believe they will follow through on their promises then they will never get my vote. I am not necessarily talking about Obama here, just in general.

6/23/2008 11:51:28 PM

so, just like the mainstream media, you guys prefer to focus on the guy who broke no laws but flip-flopped as opposed to the guy who broke his own law. figures.

6/24/2008 12:10:03 AM

Not knowing anything about you, loudRyan, I suspect you are registered as an Independent and most of the time you vote for Republicans.

You were looking for a reason to do what you almost always do: vote Republican.

Now you found one.

But don't act like you really give two shits about character.

And do not act like Barack Obama doesn't have fucking character. You can't overcome and accomplish that much without character.

6/24/2008 12:10:49 AM

Furthermore, the character argument gets a little old.

Prawn Star, I think you'd admit that you voted for or supported George W. Bush. Now, tell me what was it about him that screamed character? How exactly are you defining character? Could it be that there were other issues you voted on besides his "character?"

I love character as much as the next guy. I think John McCain and Barack Obama have oodles of character. But Jimmy Carter had character, too, and his performance in office was, uh, less than adequate.

So, yeah...

6/24/2008 12:25:01 AM

^^ "I am not necessarily talking about Obama here, just in general."

and you're right...you know nothing about me but I will offer a little insight. I was not trying to make a blanket statement based on this one act that Obama has no character and will do anything to win.

However, Obama's main message (the main one that won him the Dem nomination) was that he is a Washington outsider that is tired of the political BS and is going to change the system. When he runs on something like that and then pulls an obvious shift of a previous ideal for political gain it damages his credibility in my eyes.

As for my voting record, I have voted twice in the general election. The first time I voted for Bush. I did not like the way he handle everything in his first four years so the second time around I voted for Kerry. So, as of now my record is 50-50.

I will continue to do what I always do which is watch all of the debates, read up on their stance on the major issues and make a decision. I vote for a person not a political party.

Also, Obama overcame some hardships and has had a lot of success but I don't think he is much different than plenty of other people who succeed in America in that regard.

6/24/2008 1:07:43 AM

^^It pains me to admit that I supported George W. Bush in 2000. I absolutely did not support him in '04, and in fact abstained from voting in that election. Bush has shown that he's a man of principle, but his character is extremely shady and if I had realized that back in 2000 I would have been the biggest Gore supporter on TWW.

As far as character goes, maybe I overstated when saying that it is the most important issue in every election. However, character is very important when gauging the kind of representative a candidate will be. The politicians I despise the most exhibit the same faulty character traits. They are overly ambitious. They want everyone to love them, and are willing to say whatever people want to hear. They would sell out their principles for political expediency.

For me, this election will come down to character because I view Obama and McCain as a draw on the issues I find important. I view Obama as the better statesman and superior on foreign policy as well as most social issues, but believe that McCain would be better for the economy and I'm scared of what Obama wants to do with health care. When it comes down to it, I need to believe that the leader we elect will try to do the things he promises. When Obama promises to run a federally funded campaign, and then turns around and opts out of that position, it causes me to question him on other issues.

[Edited on June 24, 2008 at 1:12 AM. Reason : 2]

6/24/2008 1:11:55 AM

i was the biggest gore supporter i knew in my hs lol

6/24/2008 1:15:57 AM

^^^Do you vote for offices other than the presidency?

Why did you vote for Bush? Was it his character? I can kind of see that. Gore automatically had poor character cause he was associated with Clinton...but, again, how did Bush's character play into your voting for him? Was it really his character?

And what was it about Kerry's character that attracted you to him? Or did you just vote for him because he wasn't as bad as Bush?


Does character really matter to you at all?

Quote :

"I will continue to do what I always do which is watch all of the debates, read up on their stance on the major issues and make a decision. I vote for a person not a political party."

The part I put in bold indicates you vote for a political party, not a person.

And, in case you didn't know this about yourself, you're a Republican. I know it because you voted for Bush in 2000, and you're about to vote for John McCain (I can see the future).

[Edited on June 24, 2008 at 1:33 AM. Reason : sss]

6/24/2008 1:32:54 AM

speaking of character, what's the deal with mccain and his wife? And she looks like she has an evil smile constantly too, like dick cheney.

They don't seem to be anywhere near as close as obama and his wife michelle.

6/24/2008 1:56:30 AM

Quote :

"Do you vote for offices other than the presidency?"

Not usually. If I don't feel like I took the time to learn about the candidates, which I generally don't when it comes to locals or senate/house positions then I won't vote in those.

Quote :

"The part I put in bold indicates you vote for a political party, not a person."

Would you rather me vote for someone without having a clue about where they supposedly stand on the issues? Suppose I think a candidate has the utmost integrity and character and will do every word that he says, that's great but if he says he plans on outlawing cars and forcing everyone to use mass transit (just an outrageous silly example) then he still won't get my vote because that would be a deal breaker for me, just like abortion is a deal breaker for many. It seems you have tried to turn my statements into "all I care about is character" when I said nothing of the sort.

Also, one of the main reasons I voted for Kerry is because I thought he was more candid and sincere during the debates and he handled himself well when the republicans and the swift boat people tried to tar his image by bringing up his war record. This was especially ridiculous in my opinion because Bush didn't even go. When I voted for Bush the first time I was young and in the military. I look at things a little differently now.

6/24/2008 2:05:45 AM

Quote :

"'no friend of the clintons' ha! he has been defending clintons for years"

moron

You have zero political knowledge beyond what you Googled in the last few weeks. You really are a joke, moron.

George Stephanopoulos happens to be the Scott McClellan of his day.

KISS AND TELL?

Quote :

"The book, All Too Human, released this week, provides an intimate portrait of life inside the Clinton White House. It is unflinching in its critique of both the President and First Lady. The book's release has sparked debate on the propriety of former White House staffers criticizing a president while he is still in office. This past Sunday, Sam Donaldson questioned his colleague about that on ABC's 'This Week.'"

A president betrayed?

Quote :

"SAM DONALDSON: If it runs true to form now, there are various parts of this book that are not a very good read if you're President Clinton or Mrs. Clinton, I suspect they are going to denounce you in some respect, or say that it's a bunch of hooey. What do you say to people who say, well, you're now the betrayer, oh, you should not have written this book? Did you vet this book with them? GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: I did not vet it with them. What I - and I understand that, and if people want to say that, they'll say what they say - what I tried to do is write an honest book, and I think a fair book, that showed all sides of the Clintons, of the White House at that time, and not really try to make too many hard judgments, let people make the judgments for themselves as they read the book and they see the experience unfold. But, you know, criticism comes with the territory."

Cashing in?

Quote :

"TERENCE SMITH: Peter Carlson, you describe this in your article as cashing in. Is that what it is? PETER CARLSON, Washington Post: It certainly is. Mr. Stephanopoulos is not doing this for free. He's not waiting –"

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/media/jan-june99/memoir_3-11.html

Quote :

"There is something unsettling when a George Stephanopoulos or Scott McClellan rides a presidential candidate and then a White House to fame, and then dumps a critical memoir out there."

--Matt Cooper

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/capital/2008/05/29/mcclellan-right-and-wrong

And don't get your talking points from The Huffington Post, dumbass.

[Edited on June 24, 2008 at 11:12 AM. Reason : .]

6/24/2008 11:08:30 AM

Quote :

"And don't get your talking points from The Huffington Post, dumbass. "

hypocrisy much?

6/24/2008 11:31:22 AM

^ WTF are you babbling about? I don't get talking points from anywhere.

6/24/2008 11:32:23 AM

just keep on believing that it's somehow different

6/24/2008 11:35:18 AM

^ WTF? I just quoted from PBS and Condé Nast--what. . .the fuck. . .are you on?

6/24/2008 11:56:59 AM

those are the only posts you've ever made. i forgot.

6/24/2008 11:58:24 AM

Quote :

"That's the beauty of this site! Let me break it down for you: I am free to make threads as I choose and so are you! Wow! But I see instead of, you know, actually making the type of McCain thread you suggested I make, you're satisfied to follow me around like a rabid puppy barking your shitty little comments. GG. BTW, if this thread troubles you so, you're also free not to post in it. I recommend you take full advantage of that opportunity. "

Surprise, surprise, the "I can do what I want but you shouldn't on the same website!" argument again.

[Edited on June 24, 2008 at 1:15 PM. Reason : It's sure annoying when people say what they want! ]

6/24/2008 1:13:41 PM

^ No, you just seemed so concerned about perceived balance here. Yet, you made no attempt to achieve it.

I called you on it. Simple.

6/24/2008 1:35:42 PM

Soap Box is fundamentally without any balance.

But you were pretending you weren't making this thread to call Obama out on everything.

I called you on it, simple.

6/24/2008 1:57:10 PM

Hooksaw has proven that he's a race-baiting hack that cannot address issues objectively and cannot debate without name calling, I have decided to treat that faggot the same way he treats every other person, let's not post about his fiance though.


I called you on it, simple.

6/24/2008 1:59:58 PM

Someone would marry hooksaw??????

I called you on it. Simple.

[Edited on June 24, 2008 at 2:02 PM. Reason : ]

6/24/2008 2:01:49 PM

^^ That's a good idea on the latter. And can you prove any of the other bullshit that you posted? No?

^ Unlike you, yes.

Now, can we get away from the personal attacks on me and get back on topic? Let me guess, you've got nothing, right?

6/24/2008 2:05:51 PM

Well you know I'll probably already be married when I'm 45 so

6/24/2008 2:06:59 PM

Quote :

"probably"

FWIW, I'm not 45.

Quote :

"Now, can we get away from the personal attacks on me and get back on topic? Let me guess, you've got nothing, right? "

6/24/2008 2:10:04 PM

^^ TO A MAN, YOU FUCKING FAGGOT

[Edited on June 24, 2008 at 2:10 PM. Reason : ]

6/24/2008 2:10:41 PM

I've g t n thing

^mg yu have crushed me t the cre

[Edited on June 24, 2008 at 2:11 PM. Reason : ]

6/24/2008 2:10:51 PM

hahaha the rolley eyes for o's. classic

6/24/2008 2:13:29 PM

Well we can all assume, since hooksaw is a flaming (and self-hating) homosexual, that his fiance is either a man or man-like. But we'll drop that until the next time he brings up Michelle Obama, but you know he will.



[Edited on June 24, 2008 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

6/24/2008 2:13:39 PM

Quote :

"Now, can we get away from the personal attacks on me and get back on topic? Let me guess, you've got nothing, right? "

6/24/2008 2:15:16 PM

Quote :

"Don't start with your stupidity, you dumbass. YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER YOU FUCKING STUPID IDIOT!!!1 JESUS H. CHRIST!!!1 You're a fucking liar."

6/24/2008 2:20:09 PM

^^You started these personal attacks by namecalling other posters anyhow.

It's hilarious that you think you don't deserve it.

[Edited on June 24, 2008 at 2:20 PM. Reason : .]

6/24/2008 2:20:17 PM

from: Aunt Gertrude <gbabeee290_2@aol.com>
date: Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 10:38 AM
subject: FW: FW: FW: An very important forward about B. Hussein Obama! Fwd it!

This November we face as great danger a Nation!!!! A man named B. Hussein Obama wants to take over our miliatry, disarm our guns, and surrender to the enemies! But there are facts you should know first about Obama and his so-called "wife."

FACT: B. Hussein Obama went to PRISON for killing a bunch of asian people while traveling overseas in a FORMER FRENCH COLONY!

FACT: While in PRISON B. Hussein Obama would later admit that he DID NOT LOVE AMERICA!

FACT: B. Hussein Obama MADE PROPAGANDA TAPES FOR THE COMMIES!

FACT: When B. Hussein Obama came back from PRISON he found out his wife was in a car accident and became FAT!

FACT: He dumped his FAT wife and married a DRUG-ADDICT wife who also DRANK BEERS and WAS ADDICTED TO DRUGS!

FACT: B. Hussein Obama's DRUG ADDICT wife stole drugs and also stole drugs from A CHARITY!

FACT: B. Hussein Obama is not fit to be COMMANDER and chief!!!!!!!!!

Please send this to everyone you know TODAY!

6/24/2008 2:31:44 PM

^^^ You didn't post the full quotations, which is not surprising, or the link(s). And my frustration came from you being purposely obtuse.

^^^ and ^^ You both should learn the rules. You can pretty much be as rude as you want to be as long as you're making an argument--not just a personal attack.

^ Do you frequently quote chain e-mails? The "Postcard Virus" is probably attacking your computer right now--watch out!

6/24/2008 2:37:54 PM

I gt it from Aunt Gertrude, it just ges t shw why we can't trust Hussein sama

I thught yu'd be dwn with that

6/24/2008 2:41:41 PM

Quote :

"You didn't post the full quotations, which is not surprising"

You're a fucking liar.

Quote :

"And my frustration came from you being purposely obtuse. "

Don't start with your stupidity, you dumbass.

Quote :

"You both should learn the rules."

JESUS H. CHRIST!!!1

Quote :

"not just a personal attack. "

YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER

YOU FUCKING STUPID IDIOT!!!1

You're a fucking liar.

6/24/2008 2:57:05 PM

rolley eye o's is less funny the second time.
if you wanna make it dis bizness you gotta keep it fresh, kid.

6/24/2008 3:03:49 PM

Quote :

"You both should learn the rules. You can pretty much be as rude as you want to be as long as you're making an argument--not just a personal attack. "

Maybe you should learn them too! "Stillfuckhead" is not my screen name.

[Edited on June 24, 2008 at 3:11 PM. Reason : ]

6/24/2008 3:08:52 PM

Quote :

"I can't speak for him, but for me this pertains to the most important issue in every election: Character"

horseshit, no politician would ever get elected if character counted.


well, almost none.

6/24/2008 3:11:08 PM

This public financing thing is such a big deal, that McCain has hit his lowest point this year in polling, while Obama is at his highest:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#chart

A trend that has been going for the past month or so.

I actually find this a little bit puzzling, but the more I think about it, it seems that it could be due to McCain coming off as if he's on the defensive. Everytime you seem him speak, he looks frustrated and is constantly comparing himself to Obama, rather than just stating where he stands.

[Edited on June 24, 2008 at 6:20 PM. Reason : ]

6/24/2008 6:19:05 PM