Quote :

""I hate to keep reapeating but I can't drill this enough capitalism gives money to the rich and exploits the poor ""

LOL i think the author of this is confusing capitalism with corruption and other unlawful acts. the problem
is not capitalism itself. With communism instead of a bunch of greedy tycoons manipulating the market, bribing politicians,
and taking advantage of the population you have just the gov't doing the same. at least with the current systems
there is potential to become one of the greedy tycoons yourself and the gov't can investigate and stop those guilty
of illegal activities.

Quote :

"And my grand parents were poor italian immigrants who came here with literally the clothes on their backs. They raised a family of 5 kids in NYC, managed to send all 5 of the kids to college and still managed to save enough money to pay for the care of them as they got older. My grandfather worked as a tailor and my grandmother a secretary who taught herself the stock market on the side."

Thank you. My dad's side of the family were poor English and german immigrants that moved from NYC during the late 1800's. My
mom's side were scots kicked out by the english and settled in the US during the mid 1700's with my grandpa being
not only a factory working but also handling cattle as a side job and my grandma worked as a secretary. The truth
is a large majority of the "affluent" in America eventually came from some lower class family. Otherwise they would
have decided to stick around Europe. However, instead of making excuses to their poverty they worked hard to provide
their kids with a better standard of living. One thing i enjoy about Obama as a presidential candidate is that it
cuts the power of jesse jackson and al sharpton to bitch on their soap box about "the man" holding the black man down.
However, many whites are guilty of the same excuse making welfare living cycle of living.

Quote :

""Once you have money in America, you don't have to work to get more. The best ways to make money are simply"

tell that to MC Hammer who recently filed for bankruptcy.

Quote :

"As far as driving local businesses out, the only way WALMART does that is by offering a better product at a better price. If they"

The reason i don't shop at walmart is because i do not enjoy shopping with the rift raft of society. Not only this
but the lines are usually ridiculously long and the shear size of the store makes picking up a few items into an
ordeal. Most of the time i'd rather just pay the premium to get in and out service somewhere else as it is not worth my time.
however, for those on stricter budget i respect what walmart does to help provide lower prices.

Quote :

"Some guys from my school went on a mass burglary of homes and got caught but ended up going to college,"

Even those lower class kids in a one parent home w/ mom gone most the time working should have enough fucking common
sense to associate stealing = bad.

I have no sympathy when they get arrested and go to jail b.c mom does not have money for a good lawyer. This is
once again making excuses instead of expecting responsibility.

Quote :

"depressed and disabled, incapable of getting a job. Instead, she and her daughter, Angelica Hernandez, survive on a"

why is her daughter not working? If nunez truely was incapacitated to the point where she is not capable of working
then this is the type of situation that i have no problem allocating welfare money for. However, the depression thing
is BULLSHIT and if she is not truely incapacitated then she needs to get a FUCKING JOB. Maybe i should cry and boohoo
and live on gov't money b.c i'm depressed that i stubbed my toe yesterday. Fuck lazy stupid worthless people.

Quote :

""Meanwhile a few miles away kids are taking weekly educational cruises, computer lessons and interactive activities."

I am sure many will disagree but if parents in suburbia are paying more in property taxes/ income taxes which fund
the school system then why should they not get more money allocated to suburbia high??

Quote :

"The problem is, the loopholes and the ways to avoid taxes exist because our tax system is so big and complex. Most of the nifty"

and b.c they can afford to lobby our congressmen to create the loopholes.

[Edited on July 22, 2008 at 5:41 PM. Reason : l]

7/22/2008 5:40:54 PM

Quote :

"If nunez truely was incapacitated"

7/22/2008 5:44:07 PM

this thread kinda reminds me of that dumb cunt that sued McD's 40 million b.c she was to stupid not to realize the manager's husband was a "fake" police and she sucked his dick to get out of "trouble".

7/22/2008 5:47:50 PM

Many of these rich people are hiding and they need to be hunted down. They are sucking America dry. They are somehow moving money out of the country without paying taxes. These monies need to be raided by the government. What Obama is planning is childsplay compared to what really needs to be done. There needs to be a salary cap. You have no idea how much American oil executives are making right now. Paper currency needs to be eliminated its 2008 and all funds need to be tracked. Put an end to outsourcing by taxing anything coming in. Bring back the American worker.

Quote :

"They are rich. The median income in this country is something like $40k / year. In 1950 it was less than 20K. Sounds like a giant leap forward for the middle class to me. Of course, rich is relative, and while the middle class doubled their income, so did the upper classes, but that doesn't mean life hasn't improved. We are well beyond basic necessities now."

Actually, 1 dollar in 1950 is like 7.50 today so you just proved it has gotten worse, thanks for playing!

Quote :

"It absolutely has changed. I guarantee you $20,000 given to a local charity to help a local population sees more of that money directly applied to the population than $20,000 given to the federal government, to disburse to the state governments to disburse to the population. Cutting out the middle man is always cheaper, and you can be damn sure the government is one hell of a middle man."

I think we're better off with the middle man than relying on people to be kind. Plus charities aren't going to provide infrastructure, defense and law.

Quote :

" You're shitting me right? Most people don't know that the key to having money is to spend less than you earn? And they don't know that kids cost money? Seriously? Then why the fuck are we dumping all this money into helping them if they're just going to piss it away?"

So we can educate them into knowing. Some know but its easier said than done. If you live a stressful life you are more likely to spend your little money on entertainment. If we can provide healthcare, housing and food then we can eliminate some of that stress and allow them to rise.

Quote :

"And my grand parents were poor italian immigrants who came here with literally the clothes on their backs. They raised a family of 5 kids in NYC, managed to send all 5 of the kids to college and still managed to save enough money to pay for the care of them as they got older. My grandfather worked as a tailor and my grandmother a secretary who taught herself the stock market on the side. "

Well good for them but today immigrants are given incentives. Blacks for example have been institutionally held back on a wide scale until this generation and still are to a small degree.

Its easy to sit back and talk about what poor people should do and how easy it would be but honestly, you have no idea what its like or how hard it is for those people out there.

Quote :

"Yeah, life can be crappy like that, but you know how to make the playing field even. Don't fucking go on a burglary spree. You're seriously saying that I should feel compassion for some schmuck who felt that because he didn't have everything he wanted that he would just take from others."

All people make mistakes. The only difference is poor people pay progressively more for their mistakes. Funny isn't it?

Quote :

"No hope? So where are my tax dollars going because there are damn sure plenty of government programs out there, and many times more private programs, to help people who need a hand pull themselves up. So where are all of my tax dollars going if there is no hope? "

The money needs to make it into schools, healthcare, schools, cleaning up the streets, investing in poor neighborhoods, creating jobs, etc. Basically reversing all the things associated with slums that corpertions like walmart indirectly create.

Quote :

"WALMART does that is by offering a better product at a better price. If they didn't offer either, people wouldn't shop there, but the simple fact of the matter is, people want cheaper prices. Question, when was the last time you specifically sought out a more expensive, made in America product from a mom and pop store instead of finding the cheapest price?"

They create goods in China which makes them so much cheaper (still much more than they should be charging while forcing Americans into unemployment. Meanwhile the company has produced 4 of the richest 10 people in the world. Sucking America dry I tell ya.

I much rather get a quality product than walmart trash.

7/22/2008 5:58:34 PM

Quote :

"A product of the failing education provided to the parents. Its a loop that needs to be intervened through federal aid."

I like it. "Hey, we failed to use our federal tax dollars to educate this person's parents properly. So, let's take more federal tax dollars and throw it at the same system and see what happens..."

Quote :

"Yes shame on little joey for being born in a weak school zone. He should have known better than to enroll in his district school and even then, he had to know it was bad and should have found a way to go to a better school by at least 1st or 2nd grade like all us rich people did when we were working ourselves towards the top as toddlers!"

More likely, it's "shame on the federal government for fucking around in education when they have no Constitutional authority to do so in the first place. Shame of the federal government for preventing local parents from being able to dictate how their schools are run"

Quote :

"Many of these rich people are hiding and they need to be hunted down. They are sucking America dry."

Wait. The people who make a ton of money and are actually paying into the system are SUCKING AMERICA DRY? Wouldn't it actually be the people who are getting all of this money OUT of the system and paying NOTHING INTO (ala, the POOR), who are sucking america dry?

Quote :

"They are somehow moving money out of the country without paying taxes."

Really? How do you figure? Are you telling me that these rich people are getting their salaries and then not paying taxes on it AT ALL by moving that money out of the country? Please, explain how that happens? Since you are taxed on your salary, unless you put that salary into certain things IN THIS COUNTRY.

Quote :

"Actually, 1 dollar in 1950 is like 7.50 today so you just proved it has gotten worse, thanks for playing!"

And the irony is that your liberal ideas are what has led to such a rampant increase in inflation. Good work!

Quote :

"I think we're better off with the middle man than relying on people to be kind."

Then you are sorely mistaken. i tell you what. How about the next time you get your paycheck, you have to have your money delivered to you by a series of fifteen people, all of whom each take 1% out of your check before they pass it on to the next guy. Tell me that that is a more efficient system than simply mailing the check to you for you to deposit.

Quote :

"Plus charities aren't going to provide infrastructure, defense and law."

Nowhere in what you quoted did the person say such a thing. So stop it.

Quote :

"If we can provide healthcare, housing and food then we can eliminate some of that stress and allow them to rise. "

You mean like we do for all of those welfare queens out there today? How is that working out for ya?

Quote :

"Well good for them but today immigrants are given incentives. Blacks for example have been institutionally held back on a wide scale until this generation and still are to a small degree."

1) Non-Sequitur much? Immigrants w/ incentives to blacks and segregation? Wha?
2) This "generation" of blacks has NOT been held back. Anyone born before 1970, I'll agree. After that, I start to have a problem. And 1980 and beyond, a black person has NO ROOM to bitch about anything, as this nation has bent over backwards for them.

Quote :

"All people make mistakes. The only difference is poor people pay progressively more for their mistakes. Funny isn't it? "

You still haven't said why someone who steals shouldn't be punished. As that is what the part you quoted was referring to.

Quote :

"The money needs to make it into schools, healthcare, schools, cleaning up the streets, investing in poor neighborhoods, creating jobs, etc."

The funny thing is, that's what all of this federal money has been going into ALL ALONG. Seems to be doing a pretty shitty job, if you ask me...

7/22/2008 6:11:46 PM

IMHO all schools should be privatized. Every family w/ school aged kids would then receive a voucher funded through state and federal taxes that covers the cost of these privatized institutions. Much like utility companies they could be regulated to ensure that even the poorest of families still get access to an education. However, though the current private schools would still cost a premium in which parents pay the difference of the voucher.

Not only would it take gov't bureaucratic bullshit out of education but it would also hold all schools accountable. Schools like Cardinal Gibbons would even be more affordable given the voucher system for parents disgruntled that there local school is ghetto and providing subpar education.

Parents that are pro-life and religious would have the opportunity to send their children to "christian" oriented schools. Islamic parents could afford to send little muhammed to a muslim school. Parents who know their child is a dumb fuck-up would be able to choose a more vocational high school to send billy ray who we all know will not be going to college.

I'm 100% for free education. I just feel the current public school system is failing its job and is to wrapped up in bureacracy and bullshit like "test scores" to provide a superior education needed to help us catch up to the learning gap we have with europe.

[Edited on July 22, 2008 at 6:35 PM. Reason : l]

7/22/2008 6:31:25 PM

Quote :

"wethebest: Actually, 1 dollar in 1950 is like 7.50 today so you just proved it has gotten worse, thanks for playing!"

instead of assuming that his statement was false, you could have asked him if the figure was inflation adjusted....OR you could have searched for "median income" on wikipedia to find [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income]:

...thanks for playing!

7/22/2008 6:50:53 PM

Quote :

"and b.c they can afford to lobby our congressmen to create the loopholes. "

Well sure, but that's only successful because the tax system is so complex.

Quote :

"Many of these rich people are hiding and they need to be hunted down. They are sucking America dry. They are somehow moving money out of the country without paying taxes. These monies need to be raided by the government. What Obama is planning is childsplay compared to what really needs to be done. There needs to be a salary cap. You have no idea how much American oil executives are making right now. Paper currency needs to be eliminated its 2008 and all funds need to be tracked. Put an end to outsourcing by taxing anything coming in. Bring back the American worker."

Now I know you're not grounded in reality. And yes, let's tax imports, look how well thats working out for us. Taxes on imported cheap sugar means the corn industry makes out like bandits, and your stuck with corn products in every food you consume. How many more protectionist policies will have to fail before people like you figure out that it's only damaging to us and the rest of the world.

Quote :

"Actually, 1 dollar in 1950 is like 7.50 today so you just proved it has gotten worse, thanks for playing! "

Inflation isn't helped by government welfare and wealth redistribution schemes, and certainly wouldn't be helped with your protectionist dreams. Further, in the 50's, what was considered basic living is much less than today. In the 1950's a 1,000 square foot house was considered big.

Quote :

"I think we're better off with the middle man than relying on people to be kind. Plus charities aren't going to provide infrastructure, defense and law."

So you think that poor folks are better off having 20¢ of every dollar collected for them actually being used for them as opposed to 50¢ or better from private charities? It amazes me that people can look at things like the Katrina disaster, where the government failed over and over and private companies and people stepped in to provide more and better aid and think that somehow we are better off having the government run a charity.

Quote :

"So we can educate them into knowing. Some know but its easier said than done. If you live a stressful life you are more likely to spend your little money on entertainment."

Your stupid choices in life are not the responsibility of others.

Quote :

"If we can provide healthcare, housing and food then we can eliminate some of that stress and allow them to rise."

Define provide housing food and healthcare, because I bet your definition is nothing close to mine.

Quote :

"Well good for them but today immigrants are given incentives."

Right, that was my point, that historically people have been able to bring themselves out of poverty without government assistance. With it, people should be doing it all the time.

Quote :

"Blacks for example have been institutionally held back on a wide scale until this generation and still are to a small degree."

Somehow this hasn't held true for black immigrants. Again, mindset, and drive, something our welfare systems are designed to discourage.

Quote :

"Its easy to sit back and talk about what poor people should do and how easy it would be but honestly, you have no idea what its like or how hard it is for those people out there. "

I've been over this is more detail in the past, but I managed to support myself and my wife on $8 / hr part time for some time, so don't begin to lecture me about what I do or don't know about living without. Everything I say to do are things I have done. Moving up in life is hard, no doubt about it, but there is no reason at all why most people can't do it other than their own bad choices.

Quote :

"All people make mistakes."

Robbing a house isn't a mistake. It's a fucking choice, and the stupid one at that.

Quote :

"The money needs to make it into schools, healthcare, schools, cleaning up the streets, investing in poor neighborhoods, creating jobs, etc. Basically reversing all the things associated with slums that corpertions like walmart indirectly create. "

I thought you said there was no hope. So which is it, is the money going to investing in poor neighborhoods or is there no hope? And slums like walmart creates? Why don't you ask some walmart employees how they feel about it. It's funny how the only people I know who hate walmart are middle class and upper class white people who feel guilty about their success in life.

Quote :

"They create goods in China which makes them so much cheaper (still much more than they should be charging while forcing Americans into unemployment. Meanwhile the company has produced 4 of the richest 10 people in the world. Sucking America dry I tell ya."

They create goods in china because that's what the people demand. And in particular, the people who demand it are the people who are lower class. They want to be able to afford the things that make life easy. But you and your quest would have them paying higher prices for less product. It's funny to me that you decry the evil corporations that are supposedly keeping these folks down, but every policy you support would increase the cost of living for them, and generate larger slums.

Quote :

"I much rather get a quality product than walmart trash."

Answer my question, when was the last time you specifically sought out a more expensive, made in America product from a mom and pop store instead of finding the cheapest price? Do you shop at big supermarket chains or the local farmer's market?

7/22/2008 6:53:10 PM

^ i actually go to the farmers market if i have time in order to get fruit and veggies

Quote :

"Somehow this hasn't held true for black immigrants. Again, mindset, and drive, something our welfare systems are designed to"

no shit. my taxi driver a couple weeks ago was from Liberia in west africa. while not driving a taxi at night he was taking classes in MECHANICAL ENGINEERING. He must have missed the memo that in america it is just as easily acceptable to go sit in the your gov't housing in the projects, collect a welfare check, and complain about how the white man keeps you from excelling in society.

7/22/2008 7:01:59 PM

Quote :

"Even those lower class kids in a one parent home w/ mom gone most the time working should have enough fucking common sense to associate stealing = bad. I have no sympathy when they get arrested and go to jail b.c mom does not have money for a good lawyer. This is once again making excuses instead of expecting responsibility."

Just goes to show how much harder it is when from teens they are faced with 100% responsibility for their actions while the middle class and rich are given free passes.

Quote :

"I am sure many will disagree but if parents in suburbia are paying more in property taxes/ income taxes which fund the school system then why should they not get more money allocated to suburbia high?? "

The money should be divided between all the schools equally. All schools should be virtually the same thing.

Quote :

" Really? How do you figure? Are you telling me that these rich people are getting their salaries and then not paying taxes on it AT ALL by moving that money out of the country? Please, explain how that happens? Since you are taxed on your salary, unless you put that salary into certain things IN THIS COUNTRY."

There are lots of rich people that have creative ways of avoiding or even evading tax. how? Man if I knew I would be working for the government right now. Sure they pay taxes but money saved in this country benefits this country, money saved outside of the country doesn't. These people need to be held accountable for their revenue, profits need to be capped and large amounts of land need to be confiscated. There is no reason for 3 families to own 75% of land in a certain us city. Eminent domain is a wonderful thing and needs to be put to use if these people aren't going to be accountable, make them.

Quote :

"1) Non-Sequitur much? Immigrants w/ incentives to blacks and segregation? Wha? 2) This "generation" of blacks has NOT been held back. Anyone born before 1970, I'll agree. After that, I start to have a problem. And 1980 and beyond, a black person has NO ROOM to bitch about anything, as this nation has bent over backwards for them."

I got distracted while trying to leave work.

There is still institutionalized racism everywehre
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/06/crl_predatory_study.html
Blacks and latinos can't even get the same loans TODAY and you call that upward mobility?

Quote :

"You still haven't said why someone who steals shouldn't be punished. As that is what the part you quoted was referring to."

I'm just saying a poor kid that makes a mistake should be punished the same way a rich kid that makes a mistake is punished

Quote :

"The funny thing is, that's what all of this federal money has been going into ALL ALONG. Seems to be doing a pretty shitty job, if you ask me..."

Which is why more is needed. You can't put a fire out with a squirt bottle.

Quote :

"would still cost a premium in which parents pay the difference of the voucher. "

Basically wash and repeat? Just create cheap schools that don't teach for the poor people eh?

Instead we should just have 1 type of school that is efficient. The best school should be what everyone gets. Come off your high horse.

7/22/2008 7:08:14 PM

^ b.c our current school system is doing such a wonderful job

Quote :

"for their actions while the middle class and rich are given free passes. "

unless your parents are rich and can afford a lawyer or you know the judge/DA chances are you are still getting a felony on the record. Even those "poor" criminals still get an attorney. If you can afford to buy a better one then so be it. Truth is the poor often get the book thrown at them b.c often they are repeat offenders. That jena 6 thug who got charged w/ attempted murder was given the harsher charge not b.c the DA hates black people but b.c it was teh kids 3rd arrest for a aggravated assault.

Please take your liberal whiny bullshit back to chapel hill.

7/22/2008 7:21:02 PM

Quote :

"Your stupid choices in life are not the responsibility of others."

Parents

Quote :

"Define provide housing food and healthcare, because I bet your definition is nothing close to mine."

Healthcare that is just as good as what rich people get

Food that is up to standards. Its clear that poor people get lower quality food that results in lower quality health. If you don't believe me then shop at a poor neighborhoods store and buy on the food stamp budget.

Housing projects need to be ended. Why put all the poor into one cess pool of a place? divide them up amongst cities. It is hard to live in an environment with such high crime and things that go on in these places. There is enough regular housing for everyone. The government already pays owners to rent out homes. Increase this.

Quote :

"Right, that was my point, that historically people have been able to bring themselves out of poverty without government assistance. With it, people should be doing it all the time. "

Times change. America isn't the places of dreams it was back then. Upward mobility ease is a myth when coming from the bottom, especially for minorities.

Quote :

"Again, mindset, and drive,"

Again, parents.

Quote :

"I've been over this is more detail in the past, but I managed to support myself and my wife on $8 / hr part time for some time, so don't begin to lecture me about what I do or don't know about living without. Everything I say to do are things I have done. Moving up in life is hard, no doubt about it, but there is no reason at all why most people can't do it other than their own bad choices."

Tell me, how was your life before this? tough coming up? Were your parents worthless? did you constantly have to worry about where your next meal would come from? bad people all around you? what was the graduation rate of your high school? less than 50?

If you answered yes to all of those then you are a special person and tougher/smarter than over 99% of the population.

Quote :

"I thought you said there was no hope. So which is it, is the money going to investing in poor neighborhoods or is there no hope? And slums like walmart creates? Why don't you ask some walmart employees how they feel about it. It's funny how the only people I know who hate walmart are middle class and upper class white people who feel guilty about their success in life."

Right now there is no hope but an increase in money coming in from progressive taxation increases can change that. Theres more than enough money out there to go around.

Quote :

"They create goods in china because that's what the people demand. And in particular, the people who demand it are the people who are lower class. They want to be able to afford the things that make life easylazy"

Thats called exploitation. They are part of the problem and not part of the solution. These people could be a lot well off paying more for what they need and avoiding buying all the bs that walmart strategically forces them to buy.

Quote :

"when was the last time you specifically sought out a more expensive, made in America product from a mom and pop store instead of finding the cheapest price?"

Everytime

Quote :

"He must have missed the memo that in america it is just as easily acceptable to go sit in the your gov't housing in the projects, collect a welfare check, and complain about how the white man keeps you from excelling in society."

Many people believe what their parents teach them. If the parents are bad and the schools are bad whats to keep one from buying into this mindset? meanwhile most of the good kids are taught well by their parents and schools overseas are much better.

Quote :

"^ b.c our current school system is doing such a wonderful job "

nope, which is why it needs much more money and evenly split money at that. The good schools that get the money are doing a brilliant job.

Quote :

"...thanks for playing!"

gg...but seriously 12k in 40 years? THEY ARE WELL ON THEIR WAY

7/22/2008 7:36:25 PM

RAAAR ALL RICH PEOPLE ARE EVIL GREEDY ASSHOLES WHO STEAL CANDY FROM BABIES AND KICK PUPPIES!

7/22/2008 8:02:36 PM

Pretty good article about welfare queens http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-foodbanks0720.artjul20,0,3477032.story

7/22/2008 8:03:37 PM

Quote :

" Parents"

Snikerdoodles. You can only blame so much of your failures on your parents, at a certain point you are responsible for your own life, and if you aren't, you shouldn't be allowed to be roaming the world without supervision, you shouldn't be in control of your finances and you shouldn't be allowed to reproduce. So let's make a deal, I'll go along with government provided housing, food and healthcare if you go along with anyone who is receiving these from the government gets no income, all of it goes into a government account to pay for this welfare, in addition, you will be sterilized and have a government handler managing your life.

Quote :

"Healthcare that is just as good as what rich people get"

So everyone should be able to get the best healthcare money can by without regard to their ability to pay?

Quote :

"Food that is up to standards. Its clear that poor people get lower quality food that results in lower quality health. If you don't believe me then shop at a poor neighborhoods store and buy on the food stamp budget. "

Rice and beans, bread and water, MREs. If it's good enough for our troops, its good enough for the poor.

Quote :

"Housing projects need to be ended. Why put all the poor into one cess pool of a place? divide them up amongst cities. It is hard to live in an environment with such high crime and things that go on in these places. There is enough regular housing for everyone. The government already pays owners to rent out homes. Increase this."

I got a better idea. Military barracks, 2 people two a room, shared bathrooms and shared kitchen.

Living on government welfare should be a horrible experience, one that makes you want to take whatever job you can to get off of it.

Quote :

"Times change. America isn't the places of dreams it was back then. Upward mobility ease is a myth when coming from the bottom, especially for minorities."

Hmm, what has changed since the days of my ancestors? Oh yeah, more government interference in people's lives, dramatically higher taxes, protectionist policies, welfare programs designed to discourage success and a pervasive attitude across the country to blame people's failures on something other than themselves.

Life was many times harder then than it is today, and yet somehow, it's more difficult today to succeed?

Quote :

"Again, parents."

Again, personal responsibility.

Quote :

"Tell me, how was your life before this? tough coming up? Were your parents worthless? did you constantly have to worry about where your next meal would come from? bad people all around you? what was the graduation rate of your high school? less than 50? "

Family of 4, living on a single teachers income, bankrupt.

Quote :

"Right now there is no hope but an increase in money coming in from progressive taxation increases can change that. Theres more than enough money out there to go around. "

So there was hope back when my grandparents first came to this country. Then we started government money to help, and now there's no hope, but somehow more money will make hope appear? Are you even listening to yourself or are you just spouting off whatever class warfare bullshit you read

Quote :

"Thats called exploitation. They are part of the problem and not part of the solution. These people could be a lot well off paying more for what they need and avoiding buying all the bs that walmart strategically forces them to buy."

Ah yes, the old "these people don't have financial control so we need to give them more money so that they can afford shit they don't need on top of the shit they do need" argument. Makes perfect sense. And boy does walmart force these people, hell it's why I can't stand shopping there, I hate having a gun pointed at my head and some minimum wage punk forcing me to spend my money on Mr. Espressos and PS3s, and threatening to kill me if I don't.

Quote :

" Everytime"

So nothing you own was made in a foreign country or with outsourced labor? Bullshit.

Quote :

"Many people believe what their parents teach them. If the parents are bad and the schools are bad whats to keep one from buying into this mindset? meanwhile most of the good kids are taught well by their parents and schools overseas are much better. "

So why should we give more money to this problem? Wouldn't it make more sense to do everything possible to prevent bad parents from reproducing? Let's do that. How about if you bring home less than say, 30k per year, you have to give your children up to a government run orphanage that uses the magic brainwashing system from walmart to brainwash kids into believing in personal responsibility and self reliance.

7/22/2008 8:09:56 PM

wethebest

this tool is either trolling or has never left his suburban utopia in chapel hill to experience how the real world works.

7/22/2008 8:15:14 PM

Alias, maybe?

7/22/2008 8:27:00 PM

Quote :

"Basically wash and repeat? Just create cheap schools that don't teach for the poor people eh?"

The thing is, the average private school is much, much "cheaper" than public schools, and private school teachers are typically paid significantly less than their public school counterparts.

The only thing that makes private schools "better" (and I'd argue that they aren't, but whatever) is that they're mostly filled with students who don't come from awful families.

Quote :

"Instead we should just have 1 type of school that is efficient. The best school should be what everyone gets. Come off your high horse."

No, no, no... Ho. Lee. Crap. No.

"1 type of school that is efficient" is mind-bogglingly contradictory. A singular method of education is very rarely optimal for a single school, let alone an entire nation.

Failing schools all across the nation are rising from the ashes by increasing the options available to their students and adding vocational tracks. And you want to bring us back to the year 1900?


^ I don't know-- who would go through all the point-by-point quotation crap just to troll?

[Edited on July 22, 2008 at 8:27 PM. Reason : ,]

7/22/2008 8:27:05 PM

Quote :

" The only thing that makes private schools "better" (and I'd argue that they aren't, but whatever) is that they're mostly filled with students who don't come from awful families."

Also they are not restricted by a "set" curriculum of teaching to the test allowing parents to choose programs to match the abilities and goals of their children.

A financial class should be MANDATORY to finish high school. PE classes should be more encouraged to address our fat nation teaching kids the importance of health + fitness. Music/arts/whatever should be more accessible to students. Instead we get sole emphasis on math and reading so every kid can do better on some bullshit arbitrary test.

7/22/2008 8:34:32 PM

if i were in the top 5 percent of riches people i'd feel honored to be supporting the bottom 80 percent or whatever

7/22/2008 8:40:58 PM

^ get your liberal shit out of here


whats interesting is that the income gap between those at the 5 percentile to those in the 1 percentile is a whole magnitude greater then the income gap of those at the 50 percentile to those in the 5 percentile.

7/22/2008 8:43:38 PM

lmao...if i were duke i'd suspend you for that

7/22/2008 8:44:39 PM

good thing duke is my homie and not yours

7/22/2008 8:50:26 PM

*e-daps*

7/22/2008 9:05:19 PM

Quote :

"Also they are not restricted by a "set" curriculum of teaching to the test"

It wouldn't be a big deal if they had to, though. A) state exams aren't that hard if you've had parents who haven't actively hindered your education. Most private middle school kids could handle high school level state exams. B) Kids from private schools take AP classes, which are the epitome of the "test to the test" mindset, and the schools rock them pretty hard without having to sacrifice other aspects of education.

Quote :

"A financial class should be MANDATORY to finish high school."

It sort of is. Civics is one of five or six classes where they must get a >77ish on the state exam to graduate high school. It covers a lot of macro economics but touches on some personal finance stuff. When I taught it I added some extra personal finance where I could, but ironically, poor kids are the ones who need to focus on the test the most, and can't spend time learning extra stuff if they're going to have any chance to pass the exam.

7/22/2008 9:14:49 PM

^ where the fuck do u live?

I went to public schools in NC; in 9th grade there was a ELP class but there was never a class that taught personnel responsibility.

7/22/2008 9:17:11 PM

lets say everyone pays a flat 20% of their income.

the war in Iraq would have been over years ago because we would be broke as a joke.

of course we could just privatize the entire military. That would make life easier!

7/22/2008 9:22:27 PM

NC. ELP has been turned into "Civics." It's a new curriculum, I assume, although I honestly don't remember much from when I took ELP.

And like I said, it's not much; the focus is still on government.

And to be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if economics was minimized in most classrooms. Social studies teachers are 90% history majors and 9% political science majors. Economics is not their forte. Certainly isn't mine, but I do my best not to short change it.

I make them do a couple very detailed budgets for various income levels, I talk about credit, debt, credit cards, and how easily you can screw yourself over, etc...

[Edited on July 22, 2008 at 9:29 PM. Reason : .]

7/22/2008 9:23:02 PM

Quote :

"lets say everyone pays a flat 20% of their income."

sounds good to me. i don't get fucked in the ass by the man; and the poor can help put into the their medicaid, welfare, food stamps instead of buying chrome rims.

7/22/2008 9:36:50 PM

yeah I would love that too. I would have more money.

but the government would go broke.

7/22/2008 9:39:44 PM

I'm curious as to what alternatives you suggest. I mean, sure, you want to get rid of a lot of programs, I get that. Assuming for the moment this isn't in the cards anytime soon (because it isn't, because nobody running seriously for anything is talking about gutting entitlement programs), where do we get that money?

Tax poorer people more?

7/22/2008 9:52:04 PM

we can stop paying them to sit on the couch and to squirt out babies.

yeah its cool to have social programs to help those struggling to find employment after being laid off during a rough economy or helping those who legitimatly can not work. however, it seems that far to many use govt social programs as a subsidy to their income or use it as a complete supplement not to work.

"zomg i had a car accident 17 years ago and am still mentally distraught from it. please uncle sam keep those welfare checks rolling so i can sit at home and watch ricky lake all morning.

7/22/2008 9:59:20 PM

Yeah, like I said, I get the thing about the entitlement programs, but I don't really want to get into their merits, given that this is supposedly a thread about taxing the rich.

I want to hear the alternative. Namely, who the hell else we're supposed to tax.

7/22/2008 10:01:19 PM

Sharonda Welfare with 24 kids and chrome rims obv

We take her rims and put them on Air Force One

7/22/2008 10:05:13 PM

Quote :

"Sure they pay taxes but money saved in this country benefits this country, money saved outside of the country doesn't."

Ahhh, so what you are saying is that people shouldn't be able to do what they want with their money, even after that money is taxed. makes perfect sense to me...

Quote :

"These people need to be held accountable for their revenue"

They are. It's called the income tax. Crazy, I know.

Quote :

"profits need to be capped"

Why? Because they are successful? or because you are jealous? I think it's the latter...

Quote :

"large amounts of land need to be confiscated."

Why, because it's not your land, and you want it?

Quote :

"Eminent domain is a wonderful thing and needs to be put to use if these people aren't going to be accountable, make them."

How are these people not accountable? Did they legally purchase their land? if so, what is the problem? Eminent domain is for PUBLIC USE, not for the purpose of making you feel better about your shortcomings. Methinks you are trolling at this point...

Quote :

"Blacks and latinos can't even get the same loans TODAY and you call that upward mobility?"

Waaaaaaaaaaah! Blacks and latinos, who usually have very little income or collateral, can't qualify for loans the same way that better-off whites can! It's just not FAIR! Why is that that guy, who makes 50K a year, can buy a nice couch, but, me, living on welfare, can't? It's just not FAIR!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

Quote :

"Which is why more is needed. You can't put a fire out with a squirt bottle."

Yes. Clearly we should throw MORE MONEY at failed programs. Maybe that will make the failure magically turn into success? I mean, 2+2 doesn't equal 5. Maybe if I throw more money at it it will all of a sudden equal 5. Hmmmm... You know, you can't put out a fire with a squirt bottle, you are right. And you DEFINITELY can't put out a grease fire with a squirt bottle, I promise you.

Quote :

"Healthcare that is just as good as what rich people get"

Why? Healthcare isn't a right. Should the poor get fillet mignon, too, since rich people get it?

Quote :

"divide them up amongst cities. It is hard to live in an environment with such high crime and things that go on in these places. "

Yes. Let's spread the crime out among everyone! That'll really make things a whole hell of a lot better!.

Quote :

"Times change. America isn't the places of dreams it was back then. Upward mobility ease is a myth when coming from the bottom, especially for minorities."

So, you are telling me that it has gotten HARDER since 1900 for blacks to move up? Are you HONESTLY telling me that? Think for a second, dumbass.

Quote :

"Tell me, how was your life before this? tough coming up? Were your parents worthless? did you constantly have to worry about where your next meal would come from? bad people all around you? what was the graduation rate of your high school? less than 50? If you answered yes to all of those then you are a special person and tougher/smarter than over 99% of the population. "

So, is it now the government's job to be the parent of everyone who has shitty parents?

Quote :

"Thats called exploitation. They are part of the problem and not part of the solution. These people could be a lot well off paying more for what they need and avoiding buying all the bs that walmart strategically forces them to buy."

How do you figure that it is exploitation to GIVE PEOPLE WHAT THEY FUCKING WANT AND ASK FOR?

Quote :

"the war in Iraq would have been over years ago because we would be broke as a joke. "

We are broke. And it aint Iraq that did it.

7/22/2008 10:12:47 PM

Quote :

"I'm curious as to what alternatives you suggest. I mean, sure, you want to get rid of a lot of programs, I get that. Assuming for the moment this isn't in the cards anytime soon (because it isn't, because nobody running seriously for anything is talking about gutting entitlement programs), where do we get that money? Tax poorer people more?"

Cut government spending. Move our senators and congress critters into military barracks and tie their pay to enlisted soldier pay. Our government should have to learn to balance their checkbook just like everyone else, it's one of the reasons I like the idea of flattening out the tax systems or at least tying it all together so that tax hikes effect everyone, because then you can't just have people voting themselves more money from the rich to pay for things the government shouldn't be paying for in the first place.

7/22/2008 10:29:02 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=en--izIe5Fw

Take one bite now, spit out the rest.

7/22/2008 11:15:15 PM

Quote :

""profits need to be capped""

i do not have a problem w/ profits. If your legitimate business makes $90 billion and gives you the CEO $1billion as compensation than good for you.

What i have a problem with is those that use their money and affluence in order to manipulate/bribe/"influence" political leaders to allow you to...

-exploit the current market
- provide tax loop holes
- limit regulation even at the expense of the common good
- provide no-bid contracts for your company to provide a service for the gov't on tax payer money
- overlook certain of your illegal activities

[Edited on July 22, 2008 at 11:21 PM. Reason : .]

7/22/2008 11:20:37 PM

giving welfare to poor people costs us noooooothhhhhhhhhinnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

seriously I bet you spend more on anal lube in a year than you pay the government to help out welfare moms.

I pay 120 bucks a month on insurance. Id rather help out crack babies than some bloated fucked up corporate system thats going to fuck me in the end.

maybe they should lower the fucking gas tax and then we wont notice the part that goes to welfare shit.

7/22/2008 11:30:37 PM

Quote :

"Ahhh, so what you are saying is that people shouldn't be able to do what they want with their money, even after that money is taxed. makes perfect sense to me..."

If they want to buy something they should buy it here, otherwise there should be a tax on all money leaving the country. Sounds absurd but it would work wonders on our economy.

Quote :

"They are. It's called the income tax. Crazy, I know."

Its called evation. These super rich people are often cunning and sly, many of them manipulated strings to get to where they are. I'm sure avoiding a few taxes here and there is a cakewalk and even if its a few, each one of these people doing it, cost this country millions.

Quote :

"Why? Because they are successful? or because you are jealous? I think it's the latter..."

Not because they are successful but because capitalism exponentially feeds success until everything is sucked dry. Thats why America has the cooker cutter identity it has today. I'm not jealous I'm fine. I just actually care about actual humans out there poor.

Quote :

"Why, because it's not your land, and you want it?"

Again, I don't want it but it could go a long way in the hands of public use such as schools or something positive. Again, it won't effect me, I was privileged enough to have a good school and home but I don't have the "sucks for you" attitude that you have.

Quote :

"How are these people not accountable? Did they legally purchase their land? if so, what is the problem? Eminent domain is for PUBLIC USE, not for the purpose of making you feel better about your shortcomings. Methinks you are trolling at this point..."

Just like the salary cap there needs to be a land cap and if they don't put their land back to good use in the community then do it for them. Many people simply just hold land for the sake of feeling big. Bill Gates right now could probably buy every vacant lot of land in a state just for the hell of it and you wouldn't have a problem with that?

Quote :

"Waaaaaaaaaaah! Blacks and latinos, who usually have very little income or collateral, can't qualify for loans the same way that better-off whites can! It's just not FAIR! Why is that that guy, who makes 50K a year, can buy a nice couch, but, me, living on welfare, can't? It's just not FAIR!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH."

I suggest you read up, because a black white hispanic of the same income and credit situation are going to get different rates and at times approved and declined IN TODAYS WORLD. wake up.

Quote :

"Yes. Clearly we should throw MORE MONEY at failed programs. Maybe that will make the failure magically turn into success? I mean, 2+2 doesn't equal 5. Maybe if I throw more money at it it will all of a sudden equal 5. Hmmmm... You know, you can't put out a fire with a squirt bottle, you are right. And you DEFINITELY can't put out a grease fire with a squirt bottle, I promise you."

These programs work on paper but are failing because they are stretched too thin. More money is the solution clearly.

Quote :

"Why? Healthcare isn't a right."

wow. its like we're from different planets or something.

Quote :

"Yes. Let's spread the crime out among everyone! That'll really make things a whole hell of a lot better!."

You'd be surprised and now the police wouldn't be able to ignore people anymroe. A sense of hope would be able to develop.

Quote :

"So, you are telling me that it has gotten HARDER since 1900 for blacks to move up? Are you HONESTLY telling me that? Think for a second, dumbass."

Harder for poor-born blacks than immigrants of old time, yes.

Quote :

" So, is it now the government's job to be the parent of everyone who has shitty parents?"

No, but at least don't use the gladiator method throwing them into a failing school and saying "if you're good enough, you'll make it"

Quote :

"How do you figure that it is exploitation to GIVE PEOPLE WHAT THEY FUCKING WANT AND ASK FOR? "

Wait walmart GIVES away stuff now? maybe they aren't so bad.

7/22/2008 11:33:19 PM

^^i tell you what, then. If it costs nothing to pay for the welfare queens, then how about you give up your 150 dollar bucks a month insurance and stop taxing me to pay for the welfare queens, and you pay for it yourself. How does that sound?

Quote :

"If they want to buy something they should buy it here, otherwise there should be a tax on all money leaving the country. Sounds absurd but it would work wonders on our economy."

Riiiiiiiight. Because only American products are worth buying at all. Fuck everything else. That includes oil, right? I take it you support drilling only for oil in the US. What about your electronics? No more Sony or Hitachi or whatever. I'm glad you know best how to spend my money, given that your protectionist ideas have failed our economy so many times over...

Quote :

"Its called evation. These super rich people are often cunning and sly, many of them manipulated strings to get to where they are. I'm sure avoiding a few taxes here and there is a cakewalk and even if its a few, each one of these people doing it, cost this country millions."

But you aren't talking about evasion in your rant. You are taking about people taking their money, AFTER TAXES, and putting it in offshore accounts. Why shouldn't anyone be able to do so if he so chooses? Surely that money eventually comes back into the US. And guess what? When it does, it will be taxed when it is spent. Crazy, aint it?

Even better, you know what would bring in MORE revenue? LOWERING THE FUCKING RIDICULOUS TAXES ON THE RICH. Numerous studies have actually proven that LOWERING taxes leads to an increase in revenues. Crazy, aint it? Maybe, just maybe, if you weren't taxing the piss out of these people you see as so evil, maybe they wouldn't find it necessary to "evade" taxes so much.

Quote :

"Not because they are successful but because capitalism exponentially feeds success until everything is sucked dry."

Right... That's why even the poorest of the poor in America have cable-TV and a car, while the marginally poor in India are lucky to have a HOUSE and FOOD. Capitalism suuuuuuuure has failed us.

Quote :

"Again, I don't want it but it could go a long way in the hands of public use such as schools or something positive."

All of that land you are talking about stealingconfiscating without cause would be able to go to public use? REALLY? 75% of the land in a certain city, which, by the way, you failed to identify... Guess what, noob, if you confiscated that land for "public use," the city would go BANKRUPT, because that land is generating, you guessed it, TAX REVENUE for the city.

Quote :

"Again, it won't effect me"

Exactly, and that's why you have no problem taking it away from those who earned it. I'll bet you'd sing a different tune if the government walked into your neighborhood and declared that your house was going to be "confiscated" because you "don't deserve it" and it would be better used for laquisha, in order to "spread the poor around the city." Because you KNOW the government will NOT properly compensate you for your domicile.

Quote :

"Just like the salary cap there needs to be a land cap "

That's three times you have stated there needs to be a salary cap, but you have YET to explain why.

Quote :

"and if they don't put their land back to good use in the community then do it for them"

I guess the copious amounts of tax revenue that that land generates isn't good enough for you? You know, that tax revenue is what is paying for your failed social programs, right?

Quote :

"Bill Gates right now could probably buy every vacant lot of land in a state just for the hell of it and you wouldn't have a problem with that?"

Considering that Walt Disney had a hard time buying up a small amount of land in Florida before the wonderful Free Market drove the land prices up astronomically, I think you are full of shit. BUT, if Gates could do it, power to him. As successful as he has been, I think he knows something about making something productive, so let's let him do it. Then we'll tax it, and you'll get more money for your socialist utopia! By the way, Bill Gates is one hell of a humanitarian, so you might want to start thinking about those you slander. Hint: look up the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

Quote :

"I suggest you read up, because a black white hispanic of the same income and credit situation are going to get different rates and at times approved and declined IN TODAYS WORLD. wake up."

And guess what? It'll probably end up favoring the white half of the time, and the black/hispanic half of the time, when all else is equal. NOW, if you can PROVE otherwise, then bring it up in court. Otherwise, shut the fuck up with your race warfare.

Quote :

"These programs work on paper but are failing because they are stretched too thin. More money is the solution clearly."

HA! Actually, they are failing precisely because they are government programs. They are NOT stretched too thin. It's just that there are too many more mouths to feed above the level where the programs actually help people. So guess where the money goes? BUREAUCRATS! That's what always happens.

Quote :

"wow. its like we're from different planets or something."

Yes. you are from another planet. Show me where healthcare is a right, and you might have a point. Unfortunately, you can't show me that, because it is NOWHERE in the Constitution.

Quote :

"You'd be surprised and now the police wouldn't be able to ignore people anymroe."

Riiiiiight. Now, instead of having the crime in one or two centralized locations, where we can devote more police resources and have more of an effect, we'll spread that crime out all over the city. Focusing police resources on one area will lead to a loss of resources in other areas, and guess what will happen? That area will be ignored. Good work!

Quote :

"Harder for poor-born blacks than immigrants of old time, yes. "

That's not what I asked, and that is NOT what you said originally. "Consider yourself officially called out, you faggot!"

Quote :

"No, but at least don't use the gladiator method throwing them into a failing school and saying "if you're good enough, you'll make it""

So, instead, we'll waste resources on people who don't even care to learn at the expense of those who do... Makes sense to me. That way we'll bring EVERYONE DOWN. Perfect idea!

Quote :

"Wait walmart GIVES away stuff now? maybe they aren't so bad."

Nope. Walmart sells what people want. I figured you weren't so obtuse as not to be able to figure that out... Trust me, if the lower classes of people didn't want it (since you claim that they are the ones being "exploited" by wally-world), Walmart wouldn't sell it. It is not in Walmart's interest to put unwanted product on its shelves.

7/22/2008 11:38:34 PM

Quote :

"Bill Gates right now could probably buy every vacant lot of land in a state just for the hell of it and you wouldn't have a problem with that"

Actually NO. If you had any knowledge on how capitalism works given that this kind of deal is feasible you would know as bill gates continues to buy up all the real estate; the value of the remaining lots will increase exponentially as the rest of America fights over a very limited supply.


By the way healthcare is not a right; its a privilege.

7/22/2008 11:58:50 PM

Quote :

"pay for the welfare queens"

I understand why this is such a juicy topic for conservatives to get worked up about, but seriously-- the welfare queen is an extinct species:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRWORA

plz to catch up with 1996.

7/23/2008 8:20:08 AM

Listen up Boone one day I was enjoying a peanut butter and jelly sandwich when the Taxman walked up and literally snatched the sandwich out of my hands. Welfare Leroy drove up in his Escalade with spinners and the Taxman reached through the window and handed him the sandwich I was eating only moments before. He took a bite, savored it for a bit, and spit it in my eyes then drove off cackling. That is how welfare works.

[Edited on July 23, 2008 at 8:57 AM. Reason : .]

7/23/2008 8:29:24 AM

this wethebest n00b is a naive child.

7/23/2008 8:39:47 AM

does anyone here actually live in close proximity to welfare recipients or are you guys sitting around the brickyard spouting off about welfare queens.

seriously tho.

someone show me a flat tax plan that will give the US enough money to function. And dont go above 40% because I already pay around 36% and you'll end up fucking me over with your dumb plan.

7/23/2008 8:55:40 AM

Quote :

"Welfare Leroy drove up in his Escalade with spinners"

lol

7/23/2008 9:46:04 AM

Quote :

"Its called evation. These super rich people are often cunning and sly, many of them manipulated strings to get to where they are. "

haha.

The Soapbox is a ridiculously amusing place, it's akin to watching monkeys throw shit at each other.

7/23/2008 9:57:45 AM

dental, a flat tax would only affect workers. (about 140M).

The fairtax would make everyone in the US and visitors federal tax payers.


Action, I loved the link you posted. I really feel sorry for the girl having to get canned food while she works 4 hrs a week. (did you see how her kid is on disability too, I swear they all are.) We took stats for a month, back when we thought about sending the data to the CDC, and close to 80% of medicaid kids were ADD. Then we found out its just another loophole for them to get some extra money.

7/23/2008 10:10:21 AM

You're right it's probably her fault the economy is shit and her hours got cut

She should probably quit and open an optometry clinic, seems like anyone can do it

7/23/2008 10:13:31 AM