page 3

it's almost like you guys know what you're talking about

[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 2:27 AM. Reason : .]

8/30/2008 2:26:29 AM

i'm all for playing glennon. who gives a shit about his possible redshirt senior year 4 years from now? if we get shit done the way we need to over the next 4 years we'll have 2 stellar qb recruits ready to take his place. daniel evans has a high school arm.

yeah our o-line is shitty, but one of glennon's strong points is getting the ball out quick. he will probably struggle with that at first as he adjusts to the college game, but once he's done that i think he'll be able to avoid getting hit a lot by getting the ball out when he's supposed to.

and as far as glennon not playing well enough in practice to win the job, TOB just said he wasn't physically ready to play at this level. i can understand him deciding that when comparing glennon vs wilson, but hell glennon is probably already more physically ready than evans will ever be.

play glennon. then rotate glennon and wilson when wilson is completely healthy. go into next year with 2 experienced quarterbacks.... profit

8/30/2008 3:13:57 AM

This is just another case of do you want it done right or do you want it done quickly. If we didn't have a bunch of half-retarded ass clown fans and boosters we'd be in a lot better shape. If we take our fucking time and develop our talent, use redshirts to our advantage, and bite the bullet now then in 2 or 3 years we'll be in a position to challenge for the division and conference title. You know, like Wake Forest did and continues to do. In fact, because we're a large, public university we may actually be able to consistently challenge for our division and conference titles unlike Wake who is really only in position to do it every 3 or 4 years.

Take the hit now, suffer through a few shitty years because we're letting our young talent develop and get to the point where the majority of the starters, especially on the O and D lines, are juniors, RS juniors, seniors, and RS seniors with a few special underclassmen mixed in. That's the way it's done at all the good programs. Even the depth charts at talent laden places like OSU, Oklahoma, Florida, and USC are mostly upperclassmen on the 2 deep.

If we force talented but not ready people into bad situations just because they give us the best chance to win it'll make for a mediocre season now and disaster down the road. That's what Chuck was doing and he got away with it because he had the best QB in ACC history, once he no longer had that luxury you saw the consequences of that kind of program building. It just doesn't work in the long term.

8/30/2008 8:26:35 AM

^I'm all for "building for the future", but not at the expense of another season like we've had. Think about it, the Wake Forest situation is not comparable to this one. They had YEARS of suckitude, so who gives a flying fuck if Grobe came in and lost games for a couple of years.

State on the other hand, has been good in the last 5 years. And we've had a fuckload more talent on the field than Wake had when Grobe arrived. I am not willing to waste the good players we have for the "potential 5th year" bullshit. When your #1 problem is at the most important position, you don't have a fucking losing season over 1 potentially GREAT season 4 years from now. Thats a long fucking time to wait, and I'm not willing to take those lumps when we already have some good players on the field. As I said on the last page, I'm willing to take some L's this year trying something different and letting Glennon develop on field so we dont go through this same shit next year breaking in a new quarterback. I'm NOT willing to watch evans lose games.

Quote :

"^You're acting like Wilson got paralyzed for life... He's just out for a game or two, if even that."

I'm under the impression that he's out for at least 4 weeks with a grade 3 concussion. So what, he can play the last half of the season right? Wrong. You don't put him into a situation where he's playing against guys going on their 5th and 6th games of the year in what amounts to his first start. We could be 1-5 before he catches the groove, IF he recovers from the head injury. I think you're underestimating how bad a grade 3 concussion can be, and until I see that it wasnt that bad, I'm not changing my opinion. I've already said in other threads, if he's out for 2 weeks, dont burn Glennon's redshirt. If he's out a month, you have to. Period.

[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 9:05 AM. Reason : ]

8/30/2008 9:03:53 AM

When have we been good in the last 5 years? We've had 2 winning season in the last 5 season, but at no time that I can remember have we ever been consistently good. I'd say in the last 20 years we have been mediocre with the exception P. Rivers's so., jr. and sr. years. Last 5 years:

2007 - 5-7
2006 - 3-9
2005 - 7-5
2004 - 5-6
2003 - 8-5

I understand that you don't want to see us have 3 losing seasons in a row, but I think it's pretty much inevitable regardless of which QB we trot out there. We're going to have a losing season, go ahead and ready yourself for it now. The key is to make sure we don't just have a losing season and accomplish nothing in terms of learning from it. We want to get into the situation where we are not having to rely on underclassmen. That's the way FSU did it in the past, that's the way Miami did it in the past, that's the way LSU does it, etc. Amato did a fantastic job of pushing the program from bad, which frankly it was, to a place where we had expectations and brief success, but he didn't really do anything to make it sustainable. Hopefully Tom O'Brien is going to put us in a place for sustainable success. He did it at BC with fewer resources so I think he can do it here, but we can't expect it tomorrow.

8/30/2008 9:55:25 AM

Quote :

"if we get shit done the way we need to over the next 4 years we'll have 2 stellar qb recruits ready to take his place. "

What have you seen that is any indication we are going to have TWO stellar qb's to take over for Glennon? We can't even get ONE non-complete shit qb. If Glennon is the real deal, and we aren't going to win this year with him anyway(the chances of Glennon coming in and "saving" the season, with this O-Line and the number of injuries is like 15%) then why rush this? Everyone is acting like the worse case is that Glennon goes in throws some picks but ends the season awesome. You aren't considering the huge downsides of playing a qb who isn't ready to be played.

-Signed Joey Harrington, David Carr, Ryan Leaf, and a ton of college QBs that you've never even heard of because they didn't make anything of themselves after being played to early.

8/30/2008 10:03:22 AM

Shit, Chris Rix is probably one of the most physically gifted college QBs ever, stepped in to probably the best situation possible for a freshman QB and he still never excelled the way he should have. In large part it was because he wasn't prepared mentally and made confidence killing mistakes. You trot Glennon out there and we'll be extremely lucky if we end up with a Chris Rix situation.

8/30/2008 10:15:36 AM

rix was fucking retarded though. glennon seems very strong in the mental aspects of the game.

8/30/2008 12:00:49 PM

I think he got shoved into a situation he wasn't ready for. FSU had some brutal games on their schedule his freshman year. Florida, Miami, us, Clemson, Maryland... all good teams, all tough games. Yeah, Rix was probably a bit weak mentally, but the problem was magnified due to the situation he was pressed into. If you watched him, you could see him get gun shy and actually get worse the more he played. Getting forced into a high pressure situation is tough on an 18 year old kid.

8/30/2008 12:06:13 PM

a good quarterback doesn't need to be babied like they can't handle pressure situations. the good ones thrive under pressure. trial by fire.

8/30/2008 12:51:09 PM

I agree with ^


III

8/30/2008 1:00:26 PM

^^Well Shit then, let's just put him in the NFL. Imagine how well he would thrive then with all the pressure.

8/30/2008 1:21:35 PM

There's a reason teams in the NFL like to sit rookies for at least 1 year at QB, there's a reason most of the good teams have upperclassmen QBs (FSU had never started a freshman QB until 2001), etc. You learn a lot from watching film, running plays in practice, etc. If he was good enough to beat out the other guys he would have started. He wasn't so he's sitting, don't second guess a good, experienced coach just because you think that it might possibly give us 1 or 2 more wins.

We're going to suck this year, those of you who want Glennon to start seem to want this season to be a total loss.

8/30/2008 1:26:57 PM

Quote :

"We're going to suck this year, those of you who want Glennon to start seem to want this season to be a total loss."

For the last damn time, we're not as far off as people think. We actually have a defense. We have a running game. We have pieces to at least be competitive, and go to a bowl game. We're playing in what's likely the weakest BCS conference in America. BUT, we have no passing game. Glennon isn't going to save us, but at least gives us something to build off of. Wilson is likely out for at least a month. Evans is Evans. Beck ... lord help us.

You know, eventually Glennon is going to have to play. The timing is never perfect. The pressure will always be there. The OLine isn't ever going to be a brick wall. Eventually he's going to have to play ... and honestly, you don't always get better sitting on the sideline and "learning." Ask Jay Davis.

But this shit has gotten stupid. It doesn't matter what I say, or what anyone says on this board. The coach will make the call, and I'll support whoever we decide to go with. If it's Evans or Beck, then it's going to be an even more depressing season than I imagined.

[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 1:39 PM. Reason : ]

8/30/2008 1:35:45 PM

I'll bet you money on how many games we'll win this year if you'd like, I'm going with 4. I'd be willing to bet over/under .500.

[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 1:40 PM. Reason : asdfs]

8/30/2008 1:38:34 PM

yes, we're going to suck this year. however, if glennon has a year under his belt, JUST MAYBE we don't suck next year.

8/30/2008 1:40:25 PM

Quote :

"glennon seems very strong in the mental aspects of the game."

I love the amount of inside knowledge possesed by TWW.



Especially when one of the knocks on Glennon was his inability to handle the 2 and 4 minute drill situations in PRACTICE.

8/30/2008 1:41:11 PM

this is my last year actually in school

so out of sheer selfishness i'd like glennon to play now.

8/30/2008 1:51:22 PM

So basically, we MIGHT suck if we play glennon




but we all know we WILL suck with Evans or Beck.




Why are you still arguing for the old dudes?

8/30/2008 1:59:04 PM

Because, I am sick of the typical NCSU fanboy "this guy sucks play that guy he'll save us! Oh wait , no play that guy he'll save us!" How about for once, we are patient, do something the proven way(that our coach has shown he is able to do, see Matt Ryan).

Just don't see the need for it, if Glennon had the potential to be that big of a difference maker then he would be on the field already. I mean it wouldn't have taken much to beat out the QBs we have, and he didn't. There is NO proof that he can get it done, in the last team scrimmage he played in he wasn't good.

8/30/2008 2:19:31 PM

^ no dude, the typical ncsu fanboy attitude is "man just wait for next year, we'll be awesome next year".

i'm ready to break that mold and actually start trying.

8/30/2008 2:22:10 PM

Someone mentioned David Carr... a #1 pick played in Houston with NO O-line
By the time he made it to the panthers he had happy feet and was scared anytime someone breathed heavily in his vicinity...
this is NOT what we want for our QB, let him sit and let Daniel take the punishment, he has the heart for it at least if not the size or arm.

8/30/2008 2:25:00 PM

Thats not the point at all.


The point is that we know Evans doesn't know how to play football, and that is fact. We don't know if Glennon is good or bad.


I'm just saying, I'd rather come see us play trying something new than come see us play knowing we're going to lose. We will lose with evans.

8/30/2008 3:04:10 PM

Doesnt matter, if they play him they play him if not then we'll see next year.


For me, if the guy was here in the spring my opinion would be different. If he was tearing it up in scrimmages and the coaches were being stubborn it would be different. If we looked to have a team that was going to be 8-4 w/ a good qb, and 0-12 without, then it would be different.

However, none of that is true.

8/30/2008 3:32:15 PM

Terrell Pryor looked pretty good for OSU today.

8/30/2008 3:55:36 PM

I actually liked how Wilson was looking right before he went down.

He was just beginning to get his feet under him and finding the holes/making good decisions.

8/30/2008 4:19:06 PM

The ideal scenario would be for Wilson to come back against Clemson (or W&M if allowed) and play well. Then this whole REDSHIRT GLENNON DON'T REDSHIRT GLENNON stuff will be over.

If he can't go for a while though... shit.

8/30/2008 4:21:43 PM

assuming wilson makes a full recovery, who is the future qb of nc state the next 4 years, wilson or glennon?

8/30/2008 7:30:31 PM

Seems this is a common theme in wolfpack athletics.

Anyone remember

Quote :

"I actually liked how Wilson Degand was looking right before he went down."

8/30/2008 7:37:40 PM

before evans went in we had every chance to win the game, so if glennon is better than evans (how can he not be?) then we will be a better team RIGHT NOW with glennon.

8/30/2008 8:09:37 PM

Quote :

"if Glennon had the potential to be that big of a difference maker then he would be on the field already. I mean it wouldn't have taken much to beat out the QBs we have, and he didn't. There is NO proof that he can get it don"

pretty much sums it up for me

8/31/2008 12:26:55 AM

it's not just for this year, it's for the next three years as well.

8/31/2008 12:29:27 AM

Quote :

""if Glennon had the potential to be that big of a difference maker then he would be on the field already. I mean it wouldn't have taken much to beat out the QBs we have, and he didn't. There is NO proof that he can get it don""

Once again, you're missing the point.

You're assuming there was actually a QB battle. It sounds to me like they were pretty darn confident in their decision to go with Wilson.

It took 3 scrimmages to realize Glennon was a freshman, and I feel like they let Evans stay in just because he's the veteran.

I think they liked wilson and glennon, but it was 6 of 1, half dozen of another, with wilson's redshirt year helping him win out.





I don't care if he's a "difference maker" at this point. All I care about is that he's not Daniel Evans. Thats what I think everyone else on this side of the argument is saying.

8/31/2008 12:59:38 AM

shit, just throw in Beck for william and mary, see if he can do any better than evans, let them duke it out for one or two games until Wilson gets back. All of you people wanting to burn glennons redshirt are morons.

8/31/2008 4:19:23 AM

just because the staff thought it was better to go with wilson over glennon this year doesn't mean glennon isnt better than evans or beck. even if the pecking order is wilson > glennon > beck > evans or whatever, you still have to burn the redshirt and go with glennon. starting evans for the next 4-5 games is just asking for a losing season.

8/31/2008 4:21:12 AM

too bad burke transferred amirite

8/31/2008 4:31:05 AM

^ eh, he didn't show anything better than daniel evans in the time he saw on the field.

8/31/2008 10:13:22 AM

Quote :

"I don't care if he's a "difference maker" at this point. All I care about is that he's not Daniel Evans. Thats what I think everyone else on this side of the argument is saying."

Marcus Stone wasn't jay davis......daniel evans wasn't marcus stone.....harrison beck wasn't daniel evans......and now here we are again.

8/31/2008 10:31:28 AM

a year ago everyone was kicking and screaming to get burke on the field and we all know how that would have turned out... he was just as highly touted as glennon... what makes anyone think that glennon is going to come in and have any more success than evans? (even though i agree that evans sucks)

8/31/2008 10:59:43 AM

^ first of all, burke was a top20 qb out of hs, glennon was a top5.

second of all, the point isn't that glennon's going to come in and save this season. the point is it's time to start actually trying to build a program rather than waiting and waiting and waiting. we're not going to recruit anyone worth anything coming off of a 1-11 season w/o showing any sign of improving.

8/31/2008 11:02:39 AM

This is what I feared from our fan base. You have to be patient. It's rare that a freshman QB can go in and be productive, especially with the expectations are fans have. If he goes in now, we'll still be just as bad, he'll probably throw as many picks as DE, and we'll struggle and he'll lose confidence. The stats from the scrimmages we had suggested he wasn't ready, he was throwing as many picks as DE and Wilson combined. He's not physically ready or mentally ready for the college game.

TOB and Bible know what they're doing. We have talented OL redshirting right now. Next year the offense will change and we'll have a better chance of having a pocket-passer survive. I also like the idea of potentially having an OL and QB grow together, typically if you can get 2-3 year starters at both QB and along the OL the productivity is solid. Rivers had NFL-caliber OL, right now we don't have any on the field nearly that good.

8/31/2008 11:08:37 AM

Quote :

"shit, just throw in Beck for william and mary, see if he can do any better than evans, let them duke it out for one or two games until Wilson gets back. All of you people wanting to burn glennons redshirt are morons."

god damnit man, read the posts. Nobody is saying burn the redshirt if wilson is only out 2 games. we're saying burn the redshirt if he's out 4 games which is what is more likely with a grade 3 concussion. Because if he's out that long, i doubt he will be effective anyway.

8/31/2008 11:28:38 AM

Quote :

"if he's out 4 games which is what is more likely with a grade 3 concussion"

Where are you getting that 4 weeks is more likely? I haven't heard anything definitive from anyone in the know, unless you've got some medical qualifications I don't know about.

All I've been able to find is a wikipedia article, and if it is a grade 3 based on the Colorado scale and not the Cantu, then it states that if it's the first concussion he's had he may only need to be out for a week or two....

8/31/2008 11:55:36 AM

can we lock this thread.......

i dont like talking about a redshirted person so much

8/31/2008 12:01:06 PM

whole lot of selfishness going on in this thread....

8/31/2008 12:28:26 PM

Wilson should be out atleast 4 games. Generally with that type of injury you keep the guy out a month, and if he hasn't had any symptoms in the last week you can play him.

http://books.google.com/books?id=yplFkKimNcYC&pg=PA415&lpg=PA415&dq=grade+3+concussion+recovery+time&source=web&ots=9XsH5m3Q1L&sig=4lISSjkgfreJDgPacPB-WZaBc-A&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result

Suggests for athletes who get grade 3 concussions, a month out is recommended.

8/31/2008 3:24:36 PM

Yes, it is selfish to want to see what the apparent "best qb in the country" can do when we've been putting up with the same bullshit from Evans for 3 seasons now and he may be worse now than when he started.

Selfish. Especially for season ticket holders to want to see something different.

whatever.


^good find. I took the long way to find it.

[Edited on August 31, 2008 at 6:08 PM. Reason : ]

8/31/2008 6:04:19 PM

^you're an idiot.

8/31/2008 6:31:54 PM

oh shit, you got burnt.

8/31/2008 6:33:19 PM

lol

8/31/2008 7:04:51 PM