http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/19/gay.marriage/index.html

Quote :

" Story Highlights # 3 gay rights groups file challenge to Proposition 8, which bans gay marriage # Groups say ballot initiative "improperly used" to strip away state constitutional right # Court says it will not interfere with enforcement of the law before it hears appeal "

I've never seen a supreme court move that fast to take on an issue like this, I guess the protests had some effect?

11/19/2008 6:54:22 PM

hooray for gays

11/19/2008 6:59:46 PM

Against Murder? Don't kill anybody!
Against Theft? Don't steal anything!
Against Arson? Don't burn anything down!

Quote :

"It's not a moral claim in any meaningful sense."

How do you figure? is saying "Your sin did not give you cancer" not a moral claim? I think it most certainly is one. The fact is, you agree with the gov't pushing one moral position while you frown upon it pushing others on the grounds of "legislating morality." And yes, you know my position on legislation and morality.

11/19/2008 10:51:18 PM

^ You, a person who wants less government and is surely familiar with Libertarian theories, are fully aware that the comparison you just made is utterly idiotic. There's no other way to describe it, honestly.

The 3 things you mentioned involve directly removing freedoms from and hindering the freedoms of others. Gay marriage is not. Go away.

11/19/2008 11:14:18 PM

^^there is a difference between arson, theft and murder and homosexual marriage. the first three harm someone besides the "offender" (either physically or their property) and the last does not detriment anyone. the argument could be made that these marriages do not benefit society (i don't agree with this argument). but then if you start only allowing people to get married such that they can have and raise children, then should barren women be able to wed? should the elderly? should divorce be legal?

[Edited on November 19, 2008 at 11:14 PM. Reason : ^^]

11/19/2008 11:14:23 PM

sigh. the point was that it is absurd to say "hey, if you are against X, don't make it illegal... just don't do it." Of course there is a fucking difference between gay marriage and murder. duhh.

11/19/2008 11:16:24 PM

So you admit to your own inanity? Great. That's all I needed.

Quote :

"there was a legitimate vote, it passed (wasn't even that close)."

There was a vote that shouldn't have been taken in the first place, since the vote itself was about removing rights from people after they were already given. There is legal precedent against this, and it is in fact unconstitutional, and the supreme court will eventually point that out.


On the overturning of interracial marriage bans in Virginia, the court ruled that:

Quote :

"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State. There is patently no legitimate overriding purpose independent of invidious racial discrimination which justifies this classification. The fact that Virginia prohibits only interracial marriages involving white persons demonstrates that the racial classifications must stand on their own justification, as measures designed to maintain White Supremacy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia#Decision

Now, you are all entitled, if you like, to agree with the wrong side of history. You will be stopped, however, and your cohorts in government will eventually be embarrassed and trampled, and they and you will be remembered poorly. IF that is the legacy you'd like to leave, that is your decision, but kindly leave the freedoms of others out of your ham-handed, stumbling, blind ridiculousness.

[Edited on November 19, 2008 at 11:24 PM. Reason : ,]

11/19/2008 11:17:03 PM

no, I admit that I know gay marriage is not the same as murder. And I admit to using an absurd comparison to support a different point. shocker!

btw, I don't see this as being the "removal of rights already granted." Those who were already married are not having their marriages nullified. I'd say it's hard to say that you can't "remove already granted rights", anyway, as we incarcerate criminals. Is that not a removal of certain rights that have been granted to them? If you bust out "due process," then note that the vote could also be construed as a form of "due process," though it would not necessarily be considered to be a due process of law, and I admit that. What about raising the drinking age to 21 from 18? Is that not a removal of rights?

11/19/2008 11:24:08 PM

A follow up event is happening this Sat.
http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php#/event.php?eid=66914101272

12/16/2008 6:55:52 PM

Quote :

"So you are arguing that marriage is not mentioned in the bible and other religious texts? "

Are you denying that marriage existed before Christianity?

12/16/2008 11:46:38 PM