Quote :

"Rep. Jim Cooper, a conservative Democrat from Tennessee, told a liberal radio network on Sunday that the Obama White House encouraged him to defy House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on the $819 billion economic stimulus bill. "Well, I probably shouldn’t tell you this, but I actually got some quiet encouragement from the Obama folks for what I’m doing," said Cooper, one of only 11 Democrats to vote against the economic stimulus plan that passed the House last week. "They know its a messy bill and they wanted a clean bill," he said. "Now, I got in terrible trouble with our leadership because they don’t care what’s in the bill, they just want it to pass and they want it to be unanimous." Cooper, whose startling admission came on Liberadio, was one of about 55 House Democrats to sign a letter criticizing Pelosi for suspending debate and committee rules on the fiscal package, politico.com reported. "They don’t mind the partisan fighting cause that's what they are used to. In fact, they're really good at it — and they’re a little bit worried about what a post-partisan future might look like," Cooper said during the radio interview. "If members actually had to read the bills and figure out whether they are any good or not. We’re just told how to vote. We’re treated like mushrooms most of the time." An early supporter of President Obama, Cooper is a member of the fiscally conservative Blue Dog Coalition of Democrats. "

I gain more respect for Obama every day. I'd love to see him just get up and bitchslap Pelosi one of these days.

2/4/2009 12:09:53 PM

He's been doing amazingly well, I think, so far. I thought this tax thing was going to tarnish him, but he's handled it extremely well, and kind of turned it around. I constantly wonder though if this is because Bush has set the bar so low for me...?

Something else that I didn't pick up on during the presidential race was how much of a control freak he seems to be. The way he handles Biden in public is almost like how a father treats a young child.

Incidentally, this is the feeling I always got about John McCain...

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 12:36 PM. Reason : ]

2/4/2009 12:33:34 PM

I don't know if he's doing "amazingly well" so far. He is trying to act quickly and work in a bipartisan way to get a stimulus bill passed. Unfortunately, Washington doesn't work that way.

Much like during his campaign, he is long on rhetoric but short on results thus far. Still, I can't help but be impressed with the way that he has conducted himself and gone out of his way to involve Republicans in the debate and his cabinet when he really doesn't have to.

2/4/2009 12:38:04 PM

Quote :

"We’re treated like mushrooms most of the time.""

lol, i'm watching the departed right now, and that line just came up

2/5/2009 1:00:18 AM

Quote :

"Something else that I didn't pick up on during the presidential race was how much of a control freak he seems to be. The way he handles Biden in public is almost like how a father treats a young child."

Dude, have you seen how often that guy wanders off the reservation if not kept on a tight leash? Just look at him during the primaries, fer Chrissakes.

Obama needed an Elder Statesman to lend him credibility against being a noob. He did not, however, need said elder statesman to think for him, much less speak.

In that sense, I suppose, you're correct - it really is eerily like John McCain (and his relationship to Sarah Palin)...

2/5/2009 2:37:44 AM

He's not doing a good job. He is lying to the American people point-blank by saying that this spending bill will stimulate the economy when everyone but Democrat insiders and hard core party loyalists are calling it what it is. It's a partisan spending plan and putting out a few snippets to say he's trying to cut the waste out of it by working behind the scenes is nothing but a PR ploy. It's about as believable as John Kerry's goose hunting trip. If he really wanted to cut it to something effective and remotely responsible, he wouldn't have pushed Congress to pass the thing anyway. As a conservative, I oppose large government spending but spending bills should be argued as spending bills. The president shouldn't be telling people our economy will get worse without it, and the voters should be responsible enough to actually read a little and see what is being proposed. If he wants to pass a stimulus bill, let the bill that goes to Congress actually be a stimulus.

2/5/2009 7:44:06 AM

^I agree. He is using fear tactics to try and get the bill passed. What happened to "hope"? He is telling the American people that if the bill is not passed immediately the economy will go into a deeper recession. This recession was twenty years was in the making; I dont think a few extra days to discuss what could possibly be one of the biggest mistakes in our lifetime is really going to make a difference.

2/5/2009 8:15:59 AM

Quote :

"Much like during his campaign, he is long on rhetoric but short on results thus far. "

Heh, I'd say his campaign produced some pretty good results.

Quote :

"He is using fear tactics to try and get the bill passed."

Fear tactics? After the last eight years, you're calling this fear tactics?

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 8:43 AM. Reason : ]

2/5/2009 8:40:13 AM

Stories like this piss me off:

Obama's Perks: Private Jet, Chef Tax-Free: The President Gets $400,000 a Year Plus Plenty of Freebies

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/CEOProfiles/Story?id=6806414&page=1


Seriously? We're going to pin the presidential salary, air force one, the president's chef, etc., on Obama? Oh, that silly elitist man.

2/5/2009 8:54:01 AM

for the amount of stress and pressure involved with the job of POTUS, I have always thought that salary was low.

2/5/2009 9:41:51 AM

Quote :

"Fear tactics? After the last eight years, you're calling this fear tactics?"

I voted for O and even I don't like the "this has to pass now" rhetoric. By most measures, the TARP is working to unfreeze the credit markets, the retail, manufacturing, housing, and jobs data continues to be terrible - yet the markets are managing to stay right in the same range. That alone should be proof enough that we don't have to rush into things. So long as we don't let a big bank go insolvent overnight and work to sell off pieces of them in the near term, we'll be just fine.

2/5/2009 10:25:47 AM

Quote :

" I voted for O and even I don't like the "this has to pass now" rhetoric. "

I was wondering if it was Google News recycling old stories, but I started to get tired of seeing headlines saying the same thing.

But, we get weekly news of thousands of layoffs, the economy isn't stagnant, it's clearly in a downward trend still.

I can't see how dumping a trillion dollars in WOULDN'T at least slow the decline, if only temporarily, which would at least buy us more time to evaluate what really is happening, and what really needs to be done.

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 10:35 AM. Reason : ]

2/5/2009 10:32:53 AM

1 trillion is an pretty expensive delay tactic....

2/5/2009 10:40:59 AM

haha seriously

2/5/2009 10:49:50 AM

^ I agree and so does most of the american population. The latest polls show less than half of the american people support the "stimulus package". Also what happened to Obamas "buy american" rhetoric from the campaign trail. When asked about it on the campaign trail, Obama said a buy american clause was common sense, now he backs away from it due to external lobbyists and our trading partners. Our trading partners have "buy home goods" clauses in their laws as well but somehow its not okay if we do.

2/5/2009 10:51:44 AM

^ you are actually interpreting that poll wrong (have you been reading/watching Fox News?).

You are right that "less than half" (just barely) support the bailout, but most of the rest either don't know, or are against it. So the largest contiguous group (ie a plurality) support the bailout.


^^^

True, but if you were in charge, you'd rather do too-much than not-enough, I would think.

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 11:00 AM. Reason : ]

2/5/2009 10:58:52 AM

Quote :

"So the largest contiguous group (ie a plurality) support the bailout."

Of course they do, who wouldn't want to save 500 million American jobs a month?

2/5/2009 11:00:53 AM

What bailout?

The stimulus package isn't a bailout...

2/5/2009 11:03:39 AM

^^ that's a nice condescending attitude there.

One of my friends who is actually a hard-core limbaugh fan changed his tune on the bailout after his mom (who made ~$90k/year) lost her job due to the downturn.

People have their own reasons for supporting the bailout, you can't really condemn them for it.

I do hope the politicians take a more objective stance though.

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 11:03 AM. Reason : ]

2/5/2009 11:03:41 AM

Christ, she later corrected herself in the same press conference I think.

2/5/2009 11:03:59 AM

Quote :

"One of my friends who is actually a hard-core limbaugh fan changed his tune on the bailout after his mom (who made ~$90k/year) lost her job due to the downturn. People have their own reasons for supporting the bailout, you can't really condemn them for it."

And your point?

I'm not condemning somebody whose mom has lost their job, that's a real bummer. I'm condemning the politicians who are taking an opportunity to spend money in a partisan piece of shit bill because the country is afraid of what's going to happen next. Pelosi made a mistake yeah, but it's just more of the scare-tactic bullshit all of them have been pushing. Of course the average person that doesn't know shit about how the economy works/what is in the stimulus package is going to be in favor of something that is supposedly the cure-all solution.

2/5/2009 11:14:40 AM

Quote :

"By most measures, the TARP is working to unfreeze the credit markets"

What measures are these?

2/5/2009 11:24:47 AM

3 month LIBOR
3 month T-bills yield
LIBOR-OIS spread
TED spread
A2/P2 spread

etc

2/5/2009 11:54:19 AM

I'm in favor of a stimulus bill that actually creates a stimulus, not this load of shit the liberals are trying to rail through the Legisative Branch. I hate the gov't spending money we dont' have, but as it seems that it could do some good if properly applied then I am for it.

And I know plenty of friends that have lost their jobs and it sucks. I lost my job at the beginning of summer but was lucky enough to get another, better one. Just the same they just inacted a global payroll freeze so I realize my balls are this close to the band saw.

The gov't needs to do what's right, and all these BS allocations aren't right. And Obama needs to stop saying if we don't pass it tomorrow the world will end (to paraphrase )

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 12:31 PM. Reason : k]

2/5/2009 12:30:16 PM

Someone tell me is this for the coming year, within the past year, new homebuyers, what?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/05/us/politics/05stimulus.html

2/5/2009 12:47:44 PM

^^ What BS allocations are you referring to?

What I don't get is why they seem to be focused on short-term spending, rather than something more sustainable:

Quote :

"But while both of those incentives were applauded by lawmakers who said the bill should quickly induce consumer spending"

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/us/politics/06stimulus.html?hp

Why should it quickly induce spending? Isn't spending what contributed to this problem? Shouldn't they be focused on creating frameworks for new, sustainable industries to grow?

2/5/2009 12:51:42 PM

fail boat, its possible.. i mean the last bubble was SO much fun.. its time for another right.

2/5/2009 1:34:36 PM

from what I understand, the current bill/credit is for any person (not investor) buying a home, new or resale, for 12 months after the signing of the bill. I believe a stipulation is that you have to live in the home for 2 years.

2/5/2009 1:38:02 PM

which is great... except people were able to live in thier homes previously for more than 2 yrs, either by adjustible rate or neg am loans. Does solve the problem of people who have no business owning a home still trying to own one.. THis is simply more bait for the trapt. imo. A nice bonus if you were already going to buy though.

2/5/2009 1:46:18 PM

where's the loophole so i can sell my house to myself to be eligible for the rebate or something ridiculous like that

2/5/2009 2:16:07 PM

Im wonderiing if I can sell it to my parents if we both get free money?

2/5/2009 2:21:04 PM

Quote :

"fail boat, its possible.. i mean the last bubble was SO much fun.. its time for another right."

Homes that sold for 136000 in 1999, 420000 in 2006, and 130000 in 2009 aren't going to be reinflated by a 15000 tax credit.

2/5/2009 2:25:54 PM

Quote :

"I can't see how dumping a trillion dollars in WOULDN'T at least slow the decline, if only temporarily, which would at least buy us more time to evaluate what really is happening, and what really needs to be done."

The majority of it is not going into the economy anytime soon. It's going to trickle in over several years and hardly anyone sees it stimulating anything but inflation. It's nothing but Democrat spending plans that wouldn't pass without Obama's fear mongering. Pelosi even said that 500 MILLION Americans are losing their jobs every month. He's setting himself up for a backlash, but his cronies will already have what they wanted and the taxpayers will be more screwed than ever.

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 3:28 PM. Reason : ...]

2/5/2009 3:21:44 PM

^ We need things that are going to slowly trickle in. If you're thinking a short-term boost in cash is what's needed, you're completely wrong. A stimulus that's more like methadone treatment instead of a quick fix is what they're going for, I think. There are no quick fixes for this problem.

One man's pork is another man's stimulus. You'd have a hard time getting people to agree on what's pork and what's stimulus.

Quote :

"Im wonderiing if I can sell it to my parents if we both get free money?"

I realize youre probably joking, but the housing tax is not a rebate, it's a refund. Which means you aren't getting free money, youre just getting back more of your own money.

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 3:52 PM. Reason : ]

2/5/2009 3:51:42 PM

failboat, what causes housing prices to increase( semi-rapidly)?

And a follow up, what would a 15k tax credit do?

Moron, what are you talking about? This is a handout of upto 15k for simply buying a house. So yes, I was joking, but I could sell my house to my mother and split the 15k.

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 4:01 PM. Reason : .]

2/5/2009 3:57:50 PM

Quote :

""It was on those streets, in those neighborhoods, that I first heard God's spirit beckon me." -Obama "

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ggW2NBbAtYcvPaJFrRSRCh-doJZQD965K44O0

And he nominated a Pentecostal (read crazy christian fundie) as the head of his new "White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships." Gah, I was hoping that this election would end that crap, but instead Obama is going to expanded it. I remember when Bush was first introducing this shit, and a shit ton of Democrats were against it, where are they now? It's also funny how he says that secular groups are treated equally, but of course an agnostic/atheist would never actually, you know, be in charge of this office, and having faith in the name pretty much says all it needs to.

I know several atheists who were huge supporters of Obama, and I remember them telling me how Obama was merely playing the religious thing to win votes. Yea, well guess they are eating crow now. The one issue that I had hoped I would be in full support of this presidency shot down with the first few weeks. Awesome.

2/5/2009 4:20:17 PM

Quote :

"It was on those streets, in those neighborhoods, that I first heard God's spirit beckon me." -Obama anybody else"

and they're a moonbat

2/5/2009 4:43:53 PM

^haha, you are right. You know the people bashing bush and palin for saying stuff like that wont be heard from when the great one says it.

2/5/2009 6:22:34 PM

Quote :

"I know several atheists who were huge supporters of Obama, and I remember them telling me how Obama was merely playing the religious thing to win votes. Yea, well guess they are eating crow now."

dunno. it's still possible he is doing all this for populist support. remember, it's still pretty popular to be Christian/religious in the country.


^ i don't recall hearing "bush bashing" over fairly innocuous statements like that. It's more of the "this is God's war" or "God wants us to build this pipeline" that gets under people's skin

[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 6:49 PM. Reason : .]

2/5/2009 6:48:29 PM

^ not to mention that the religious right bashes Obama enough that his statements don't seem to matter.

They certainly have yet to translate to policy in any meaningful way such as defining marriage based on nebulous biblical standards, or limiting scientific research, or supporting anti-scientific educational policy in a science class, and a host of other areas where Bush's religious nut-jobbery encroached on policy where it shouldn't have.

2/5/2009 6:59:33 PM

Obama completely fucked up this stimulus plan.

2/5/2009 9:08:44 PM

^ Not really, it was a clusterf*** from the original conception, Obama is just fanning the flames.

^^ At least Bush stood for something. He maintained core values of social conservatives. That is his one redeeming quality. It does not make him a religious nut-job. Sorry to inconvenience your atheistic views but there are still people who believe in God and agree with Bush's actions.

Sorry this is going to get off topic a bit, but I would like a comment anyway.

The definition of "Marriage" is the union of a "Man" and a "Woman". If you swap out another man for the woman or visa versa, the definition is changed. Its a fairly simple concept. Homogaybiens should come up with their own terminology to describe their union, like "Gayriage" or whatever.


[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 9:22 PM. Reason : ]

2/5/2009 9:19:44 PM

^ Who do you think conceived it?

2/5/2009 9:37:10 PM

Sorry, your right. Obama is to blame for this.

2/5/2009 9:50:05 PM

Obama, pork spending you can believe in!

2/5/2009 9:53:24 PM

Quote :

"At least Bush stood for something. He maintained core values of social conservatives. That is his one redeeming quality. It does not make him a religious nut-job."

ok, so besides giving a lot of lip-service and kowtowing to guys like Hegge and Robertson, what exactly did Bush do to advance the "social conservative" agenda?

- Any progress on abortion? nope - In fact, has any conservative has made a damn bit of difference on this topic in 30 years, despite all the rhetoric?
- Blocked stem cell research? nice, congratulations - you held back important scientific research for 8 years that may end up saving thousands or millions of lives.
- Stopped gay marriage? Not really, despite having both houses of Congress, there was no national legislation made
- Help the poor or needy? Oh wait, haha, nevermind. That's just a Christian value. Not an American Conservative value.
- And the Faith Based Initiatives program? Maybe you should hear what David Kuo, former deputy director of that program has to say about what it actually accomplished
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6289874
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempting_Faith

Quote :

"Tempting Faith: An Inside Story of Political Seduction is a controversial book by former Bush White House Deputy Director of the Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives David Kuo. The book asserts that the Republican Party, under the leadership of Karl Rove, hijacked and manipulated faith organizations to ensure their support of Republican candidates."

oh really - what a surprise! You mean Karl Rove, formerly proclaimed atheist, just used the program to manipulate conservative voters to support Bush? No way!

Quote :

"David Kuo came to Washington wanting to use his Christian faith to end abortion, strengthen marriage, and help the poor. He reached the heights of power, ultimately serving in the White House under George W. Bush in the Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. Yet his experience was deeply troubling--he began to see how his Christian values were being corrupted by politics. Instead of following the teachings of Jesus, Kuo found himself helping to manipulate faith for political gain. The legislative process was used not to pass laws but to deepen purely symbolic fault lines. Despite lofty rhetoric from the president, there was no serious attempt to fund valuable faith-based charities. Worst of all was the prevailing attitude of contempt in the White House and throughout Washington toward Christian leaders. It is time, Kuo argues, for Christians to take a temporary step back from politics, to turn away from its seductions."

http://books.google.com/books?id=o2gMzZozCVYC

2/5/2009 10:18:42 PM

WOW look at all the little disgruntled and disenfranchised republicans in this thread writhing and wailing at Obama. It's great! lol. And it's only week what 3-4?



Sorry guys, but the shit ass fiscal policy that fucked up this country is gone, deal with it. You've ruined the economy with your 8 years.

2/5/2009 10:20:58 PM

Quote :

"You've ruined the economy with your 8 "

No, your wrong. Giving home loans to every Tom, Dick and Harry is what has caused our economy to tank. Bill Clinton is the true culprit.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/09/25/1999-ny-times-article-revealed-true-cause-current-fannie-mae-crises

"Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits."

I would like to agree that I am a disenfranchised republican. John McCain was a poor excuse for a republican (reaching across the isle and the whole "Maverick" shit). We no longer have representation. He was just the lesser of two evils.

2/5/2009 10:33:58 PM

Give me a fucking break.

2/5/2009 10:41:26 PM

I'm neither for Bush or for Obama. Just because I criticize Obama doesnt automatically make me a Bush fan. You need to give me a fucking break if you dont think Clinton at least contributed to this.

2/5/2009 11:28:35 PM