TROLL.

1/30/2009 5:59:23 PM

palm...face

1/30/2009 5:59:32 PM

^ win

^^^^^ retreat first. ccp holders aren't obligated to do anything.

[Edited on January 30, 2009 at 6:00 PM. Reason : ]

1/30/2009 5:59:49 PM

Oh, I would also like to point out how few people have come to the defense of AstralEngine, while this thread is full of support for the OP

1/30/2009 6:05:05 PM

YOU SHOULDN'T CARRY ON CAMPUS BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE MAY CARRY ON CAMPUS ILLEGALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

1/30/2009 6:06:30 PM

NC State is not a government building though.
You can carry on state property in most cases.

1/30/2009 9:26:43 PM

Astral, among your other failings in this discussion, in order for your statement that allowing legal CC on campus would mean an increase in illegal carry on campus, the following would also have to be true:

Because legal concealed carry is allowed on the other side of hilsborough street, there is also an increased number of people carrying illegally on the other side of hilsborough street.

These people who carry a gun illegally, have concern for the legality of their actions, and if CC was not allowed on that side of hilsborough street, they would have left their guns at home, even though they're already breaking the law, and would be breaking no different laws regardless of the CC status of that side of the street.

These people who carry a gun illegally, magically have a change of heart, and their guns disappear when they cross the street and step on to NCSU property.

I'm sure you can see the complete absurdity of these statements.

1/30/2009 9:45:32 PM

Mr. "AstralEngine" Chadwell,

While you've been fairly verbose on the forum, you've still not been able to fully convey your beliefs. Anonymity on the Internet adds to the fact that the forum is terrible concourse for a debate such as this. I'll go ahead and tell you that while my alias online is "Nitrocloud", my name is Nick Peaden. You're free to look up information about me if you want, I encourage it. I'm intrigued by your thoughts on the issues, so I want to invite you specifically, and others that are here and willing to a casual discussion over a cup of coffee. I see this as an opportunity to enlighten myself in your perspective; it would broaden my understanding of your logic processes and how your knowledge and experiences apply to the discussion at hand. Perhaps if there's enough interest, I'll seek a neutral moderator to keep the peace. However Mr. Chadwell, we're both Seniors, don't you think we can remain civil?

--Nick "Nitrocloud" Peaden

1/31/2009 1:45:13 AM

Hi,

My name is Derek Chadwell, by the way. I'd like to start over.

I haven't read the posts between my last post and this post, but I have been doing a lot of thinking on the subject, some reflection, and some face to face conversations with other people.

I've had a change of heart, sort of...

I think allowing people with concealed weapon permits to carry on campus is, in theory, a good idea, a worthwhile attempt at putting power in the hands of the good guys. If such a law were passed, I would probably go through the process of getting a permit. The reason, however, that I think this law shouldn't (and will never be) passed arises from several points made in the term of my previous discussion with the forum.

First of all, the reasoning is entirely logistic and not one bit idealistic. I am done arguing... Whatever it was I was arguing earlier. You guys are right. Allow me a moment to expound on the reasons it shouldn't happen.

I got into a somewhat dumb argument with someone over the idea of the weapon being "Concealed" and that no one would ever see these people with weapons. I think that is unlikely. Further, I have seen a person with a concealed carrying permit carrying their weapon. I happened to know the guy. He hadn't shown it to me prior to my noticing it and probably would never have brought it up otherwise. I think that, in a civil debate, you would all agree that on a warm day, when you're just wearing your t-shirt (maybe with a button up shirt over the top) that the wind may blow and reveal your gun tucked underneath your arm in its holster or behind your back. As many of you stated before, the response to this scenario should be that the cops are notified. This event will set the wolf alert system in motion. The disruption of classes and everything else in the area will be devastating to the learning environment, at least temporarily.

That being said, I think that allowing the permit holders to have weapons is worth it given the condition that the scenario I mentioned above doesn't happen such that it costs more than... One day a month average of class time and 50,000 dollars a year to the school. These are arbitrary numbers I've chosen and of course are subject to wiggle room. Without having done the experiment, I can't know exactly what "worthwhile" values are and if I am covering all the important cost bases.

And that's hoping that students don't start calling in gun sightings for immature reasons, ie disrupting class or not having to take an exam or whatnot. I suspect a small minority of students would take advantage of that ability, thus making the rule cost more than is acceptable and not be worth it. That's the heart of the issue, I don't think the costs would be within acceptable parameters. I would like to do the experiment and see what happened. This is a worse case examination of the problem, which I think is what we need to consider when thinking about whether or not it's worth it.

I apologize for the arguments I made earlier without a clear understanding of how I really felt about the subject. The forum wasn't ENTIRELY helpful for the purposes of this epiphony, but the dialouge definately raised some questions and ideas I gave careful consideration to during my reflection.

Let's start from here, I'd like to hear what you think on the subject.

[Edited on January 31, 2009 at 10:41 PM. Reason : ()]

1/31/2009 10:40:44 PM

ha, i had given up and written you off, figuring that you had to be a troll.

I understand the point you're making, but I don't think that it would be a significant factor, based on two simple observations:

1. It's not a problem anywhere else.
2. I've never seen a concealed weapon on anyone. if anything, maybe i've seen someone "printing" a little once or twice, but even then, only enough to think, "hmmm, that looks like a slight lump...I wonder if it might be a pistol?" I figure that I probably know more people that CC than the average person, and I probably have a little more of an eye for noticing it than the average person, so if I've never seen this, I doubt it's a significant issue.

[Edited on February 1, 2009 at 7:10 AM. Reason : asdf]

2/1/2009 7:09:14 AM

With the campus climate surrounding weapons the way it exists now, I think that a student seeing a weapons could incite mass hysteria in that general area of campus, depending on one student's reaction to seeing a gun. And, like I said, I've noticed it on one guy so far, and that means it's at least possible. So I'd think we need to take that sort of thing into consideration.

Of course, these are points we're forced to agree to disagree.

[Edited on February 1, 2009 at 10:04 AM. Reason : .]

2/1/2009 10:03:55 AM

NCSU's chapter of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus is having a meeting on February 10th at 7:30pm at I love NY Pizza.
If are interested or would like to talk to people, we welcome you to attend.

2/1/2009 10:25:36 AM

^^ there would be a lot less hysteria in the scenario with it being legal, on the exceptionally rare occasion that someone's pistol did accidentally come into view.

2/1/2009 10:31:35 AM

It would be no big deal for the people who are ok with the idea. But again, with the stigma about weapons in a school setting and the events of the last decade, you can't gaurantee that someone wouldn't overreact. But again... Without trying it we'll never know.

2/1/2009 11:26:31 AM

Right, I'm saying that the stigma, for lack of a better word, wouldn't be as great if it weren't for the prohibition.

2/1/2009 12:01:15 PM

So, let's talk about what the response to seeing a gun should be if you can conceal carry on campus. People can carry guns, you happen to see one, what do you do?

2/1/2009 3:11:15 PM

^Thats a good question especially in this era of 'campus violence' I think you would have a rise in people calling in a person w/ a gun but any reasonable CCH'er would understand the hassle.

2/1/2009 3:13:16 PM

I think if people saw one accidentally it could cause some serious uproar. People aren't going to worry about what they can't see but as soon as that gun is visible they are going to think about VT and Illinois. Same thing would happen at the grocery store if one was seen. I don't mean that mass hysteria would break out though just some localized concern that could be managed then forgotten bc again no one would see the guns and people could pretend that they aren't there.

That said, I don't think that introducing a firearm into a situation is ever the right idea, especially by a civilian. Most criminals aren't out looking to shoot people, but adding more guns to a holdup has to greatly increase the chance that the criminal pulls the trigger, he too has to think about defending himself even if he started the mess. Guns on campus wouldn't have stopped the killings at VT or in Illinois those guys were going into those classrooms to die anyway.

We aren't going to be safe and we are never going to see legally carried guns on campus and those two items aren't correlated. Having guns on campus won't make us any safer than not, it's just an illusion for those who are carrying them.

2/1/2009 4:40:44 PM

it sure as hell could make me safer if I was in a situation and needed it

2/1/2009 5:55:54 PM

Perhaps "localized hysteria" is a better descripter for the situation I was trying to describe, good call.

^This is the where you have to weigh your personal cozy feelings of safety versus the overall impact of the introduction of the new rule. I can't expect you to think that this sacrifice is acceptable on your part, but it has to be viewed objectively. Someone had to make the hard (but, I think, right) decision to disallow it.

Maybe if things hard started out differently, we'd be in a different place now. Shame...Shame.

2/1/2009 9:29:20 PM

^^^ what would your reaction be to someone openly carring a pistol on their hip in said grocery store?

2/2/2009 1:20:43 AM

Well today I would expect that that person was also openly displaying identification as a member of law enforcement. Otherwise I would tell someone in the grocery store so that they could call the police, as it is illegal. I'm not going to freak out about it but I'm also not going to not act or confront the person.

But, I'm a gun owner, I'm comfortable and safe with guns, and using them so I'm not going to get myself worked up over someone having a gun on their hip no matter where I am unless that person gives me a reason to. However, there are a lot of people who would, especially on a campus where guns on campus have been attached to crimes like VT and Illinois, even more so if it were to accidentally become visible in a crowded area.


I understand the argument for CC making the carrier "feel" safer but the notion that it actually makes you less likely to be put in an unsafe situation or to get out of it with your gun is a myth. I know its not a pleasant way to think and I hope that nothing ever happens to you or me or any of our associated friends and family but I think that the difference between surviving a situation or not comes down to a lot of luck.

2/2/2009 2:18:53 AM

AstralEngine makes a good point about the problems involved with current policy.

• What are current reactions to a "gunman on campus" without shots fired?
• Are anonymous tips for a gunman on campus currently taken; and to what severity are they investigated?
• Is a campus-wide alert issued?
• Is the issue investigated as a "suspicious person" incident?
• Since having a concealed weapon display would be illegal, would carry be limited to bags or "compartmental" sections of clothes such as pockets?

2/2/2009 7:49:31 AM

^^ Unless the grocery store explicitly posts that weapons are not allowed on the property, what in the world makes you think that openly carrying a gun on your hip in a grocery store is illegal?

This I think is the biggest problem with this discussion. So many people who are against the idea of CC on campus have no real understanding what the rules and laws of the state are regarding cary (both open and concealed) are in the rest of the state.

2/2/2009 8:32:39 AM

Quote :

"Same thing would happen at the grocery store if one was seen. "

So what about open carry? I'm not aware of any real problems that it's caused.

Quote :

"Guns on campus wouldn't have stopped the killings at VT or in Illinois those guys were going into those classrooms to die anyway. "

I seriously doubt that it would've prevented anything, but I firmly believe that it could've reduced the bloodshed.

Quote :

"Having guns on campus won't make us any safer than not, it's just an illusion for those who are carrying them."

I've got an idea--how about you meet someone who's carrying a pistol on campus, then try to commit serious violence against him. How well do you think that would end for you?

Quote :

"Well today I would expect that that person was also openly displaying identification as a member of law enforcement. Otherwise I would tell someone in the grocery store so that they could call the police, as it is illegal. "

Oh really? Since you're the firearms expert here, why don't you offer up some more of your opinions...

Quote :

"the notion that it actually makes you less likely to be put in an unsafe situation or to get out of it with your gun is a myth. "

Dude, nobody is saying that carrying a pistol will get you out of any and every dangerous situation, but to say that it can't be used to defend yourself, thereby increasing your safety, is ridiculous.

Quote :

"Are anonymous tips for a gunman on campus currently taken; and to what severity are they investigated? Is a campus-wide alert issued? Is the issue investigated as a "suspicious person" incident? "

Again, it isn't a problem anywhere else. Why would it be a problem on campus?

...and again, it would be an unsusual day when a CC'd pistol was actually seen.

2/2/2009 9:47:02 AM

Quote :

"Well today I would expect that that person was also openly displaying identification as a member of law enforcement. Otherwise I would tell someone in the grocery store so that they could call the police, as it is illegal. I'm not going to freak out about it but I'm also not going to not act or confront the person. But, I'm a gun owner, I'm comfortable and safe with guns, and using them so I'm not going to get myself worked up over someone having a gun on their hip no matter where I am unless that person gives me a reason to. However, there are a lot of people who would, especially on a campus where guns on campus have been attached to crimes like VT and Illinois, even more so if it were to accidentally become visible in a crowded area. I understand the argument for CC making the carrier "feel" safer but the notion that it actually makes you less likely to be put in an unsafe situation or to get out of it with your gun is a myth. I know its not a pleasant way to think and I hope that nothing ever happens to you or me or any of our associated friends and family but I think that the difference between surviving a situation or not comes down to a lot of luck."

bubster5041-
As a supposed gun owner then you owe yourself and everyone to know the laws about firearms. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL to openly carry a firearm. I do it all the time I might add. You would be a headache to police and managers if you alerted them every time you saw a gun. Again, it is perfectly legal to carry a gun openly on your hip, or anywhere else for that matter if you have it in a proper holster.
Gun crimes on campus have occured for decades, this isn't a new thing.
University of Texas at Austin massacre Austin, Texas, 1966 =17 deaths
Orangeburg massacre, Orangeburg, South Carolina, 1968 =3 deaths
Kent State shootings, Kent, Ohio, 1970 =4 deaths
Jackson State shootings, Jackson, Mississippi, 1970 =2 deaths
Olean High School shooting, Olean, New York, 1974 =3 deaths
California State University, Fullerton library massacre Fullerton, California, 1976 =7 deaths
and the list goes on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

In the first school shooting, U of T @ Autsin Texas, student went and got their guns affectively holding the shooter at bay until the police were able to assemble. This kept the death toll down to only 17. Many more people would have lost their lives if the students hadn't kept the shooter pinned down.

Again, no one is claiming that guns on campuses would eliminate all gun violence and end school shootings. What is being said, is that we would like the right to protect ourselves as affirmed by the second amendment. You almost never see a gun when someone is Concealed Carrying, and if you do, then they are doing it wrong.

There is no arguement that CC makes you feel safer, it statistically does in fact make you safer. YOU need to use some citations if you claim that people don't make it out of incidents alive when they are carrying as it is blatantly false.

2/2/2009 9:56:44 AM

Quote :

"Again, it isn't a problem anywhere else. Why would it be a problem on campus? ...and again, it would be an unsusual day when a CC'd pistol was actually seen."

Well, in general it wouldn't be a problem. Remember that the campus is a hotbed for the liberal rationale; there are people that would panic upon seeing a firearm. Only reason I bring it up is because if we're going to have campus carry, we need to iron out regulations to handle situations like this that may occur as rarely as once every year or two. Panic brings in a lot of unwanted media attention and politics. If open carry were more acceptable on campus, there would most likely be a highly reduced chance of panic from students. If the few discrepancies that separate the idea of carry on campus and carry abroad can be addressed, we could very well have a draft for a bill to be introduced to the state legislature. I think Utah prohibits regulation of campus carry to be any different than that of elsewhere, so I don't believe that open carry is even restricted. That alone would avert problems with panicked response to such incidents. The chances of a campus shooting are very low, the most likely usage of a firearm is self defense in an assault or robbery, which is at least appreciably low on campus here. The right to self defense, including yourself and other selves is very important and campus carry would help facilitate this greatly. I also believe in a volunteer student patrol being resurrected as it would add a great deal more eyes (large factor in crime prevention is dissuasion by increasing chances of being caught). The odd thing about 2008 was that I think the only crime against a student involving a gun was on Centennial campus in plain daylight, where no amount of perceived force would have prevented the crime. When a criminal stoops to the point of threat of deadly force for a robbery, it becomes clear that life is in the balance of a muscle twitch, de-escalation would seem appropriate to make the situation more convenient for the defender (throw-down wad) to be able to assert any other measures of defense. It's a very grave extreme to have deadly force threatened upon anyone for damned money or property.

What is it that they teach in the concealed carry class about encounters? Since I would assume that the gun doesn't leave the holster unless there's killing subduing to be done, and that you've "lost" when a gun has already been drawn against you, what options remain? There were a couple of kids a few hundred yards from me that got shot at my freshman or sophomore year when a car pulled up to them on Dan Allen and they ran when a .25 auto was drawn on them; criminals fired and luckily missed everything before speeding off. I'd say that there's at least 1 life-threatening act against a student on campus property each year. There's most likely more that occur off-campus against a likewise unarmed student due to current laws restricting carrying.

2/2/2009 11:02:12 AM

HEY BUB.

Learn the laws before you keep spewing bullshit.

OC in NC is legal everywhere except where prohibited by another law prohibiting firearms altogether (i.e., no law says you can't open carry). Such places are (and not limited to):

Educational campuses
State gov't buildings
Federal gov't buildings
places where alcohol is sold & consumed
demonstrations, picket lines, etc on private health care facilities
private facilities that state NO WEAPONS (not just no concealed weapons)

So before you call the cops because I am ILLEGALLY OC'ing in food lion or even the bank, learn the laws, because IT'S NOT ILLEGAL.

You sure do sound like a gun owner

And by your arguments, CC should not be legal anywhere. Completely foolish. If you think that someone having a firearm in their possession can't save their own life, then you are mistaken.



[Edited on February 2, 2009 at 11:41 AM. Reason : grammar not so good]

2/2/2009 11:35:14 AM

Yes I hate as a state employee in a school system that I can't have any of my weapons on my person, even with a CCP, or even in my vehicle. Living 30 miles away from work this pretty much nullifies any of my options to carry except on weekends. Would be nice to be able to have my gun when I go to Wal-Mart or Food Lion late after work one night, or most importantly at my part-time job where I am frequently the only employee there and handle thousands of dollars in cash. Nearby places have been robbed and it wouldn't be a big stretch to think I could get robbed and be defenseless because of state rules.

2/2/2009 11:39:38 AM

yep...I can't even carry on a military base, as a USMC officer. it's not that I'm especially concerned about needing my pistol on base, but it pretty much keeps me carrying anywhere. I've never bothered to get a CCP, because I go to base pretty much every day, including weekends (if for nothing else than to hit the gym).

2/2/2009 12:49:27 PM

I like the turn that this discussion has taken, and i'll be at i heart ny on 2/10.

In response to the statements about folks' reaction to seeing a weapon, I can honestly say that seeing someone concealing/trying to conceal a firearm doesn't put me on alert as much as HOW they are behaving. If they are constantly looking around, appear nervous, or otherwise flustered, then I will show due concern.

However, people who have not been raised around or introduced to guns tend to freak out. I think the best way to reduce the likelihood of unjustified panic is public awareness. This could serve a two-fold purpose:

-reduce the likelihood of public panic due to a misunderstanding of what an individual is seeing/has seen

-making it no mystery to both the university population and would-be criminals that there are individuals on university property who have been state and federally approved to carry concealed weapons.

2/2/2009 1:34:00 PM

^

2/2/2009 1:58:29 PM

I look forward to seeing both of you there,
and everyone and anyone else for that matter.

[Edited on February 2, 2009 at 4:35 PM. Reason : .]

2/2/2009 4:35:32 PM

The meeting is tomorrow night bump

2/9/2009 2:26:55 PM

whenever i go back to school, i hope that i am able to carry my weapon on campus to defend myself in the event something goes terribly wrong. it was well put on page 1:

Quote :

"As previously stated, it isn't about toting power or playing the hero, it's about protecting yourself, and by default, innocent people within your immediate vicinity. You should always take care when carrying your firearm, as you are ultimately responsible for the final resting place of every round you fire. So, if the BG is in a classroom, 10 yards or more away from you, and there are innocent people behind him, you'd better be a good marksman before considering taking the shot. However, if you are in a cafe and there is noone behind the BG, and you are at a comfortable range, light him up."

i know i can hit what im shooting at and train regularly, i know my weapon, my ammo choice and feel i can make good judgement in stressful situations. my only reservation would be the one asshole that happened to pass the (EASY) performance test and doesnt know how to choose ammo properly/takes a bad shot and misses/takes a good shot and doesnt judge surroundings/etc. im sure i could and would be happy to pass any further qualification to be able to carry on campus, but i would hope that everyone who carried would be able to help their situation and not freak and make it worse.

and the bit about getting shot by the police - anyone who carries a gun knows that presenting an unholstered gun to ANYONE is asking for trouble. its just not done, you present the weapon only if the immediate next step is the takedown shot. a concealed hangun for self defense is JUST that. only saving your own ass and/or someone in your vicinity that is in immediate danger of death or serious injury by someone in an advantageous position - anything else is asking for a liberal jury to toss you to the dogs.

2/10/2009 1:15:55 AM

I've spent the last two hours reading this thread and everytime I read something blatantly wrong or ignorant, it has been addressed immediatly. I would like to add, or reiterate in some cases, the following points; however. Concealed carry is concealed; should it be visible (depending where you are it) it is illegal. NC is an open carry state but the right is not protected in the NC Constitution, meaning that cities/towns have the right to ban it. Additionally, someone mentioned earlier that CCP have to be renewed every five years, to my knowledge it is 3 years now. I wanted to argue with the person who essentially stated that guns shouldn't be allowed in the dorms, but I can't come up with much The only exception that I can think of would be if an entire suite was licensed in some way, whether it be from the University or the state, agreed to more stringent regulations (ALWAYS having doors locked, more frequent RA or even RD checks, etc.) (On a seperate issue, I think the University should have some type of service that will hold on campus students' hunting weapons. My freshman year when I lived on campus I couldn't go hunting in any of the surrounding areas because I didn't have anywhere to keep my guns) As far as CCP on campus otherwise goes, I see no difference between a college campus and any other crowded area. There is a slim chance people MIGHT see somebody legally carrying a gun, but how is the reaction going to be different than in a grocery store? I can't specifically answer this, not knowing how the University reacts to a caller who might say something along the lines of "I saw a guy sitting in class studiously reading his notes who may or may not have a gun."
I missed the meeting tonight by a few hours, unfortunately, but the next time ya'll meet post again, or PM me if you don't care.

2/10/2009 3:06:41 AM

^The meeting is TONIGHT

2/10/2009 4:10:00 AM

SAFETY NOT GUARANTEED?

2/10/2009 4:37:29 AM

1. Open carry can not be banned. It should not even be regulated though some places try. The state does have some preemption laws.

2. A license has to be renewed every 5 years.




The meeting is tonight at 7:30 at I Love NY Pizza.

[Edited on February 10, 2009 at 10:17 AM. Reason : .]

2/10/2009 10:17:03 AM

As much as I am for CC on campus, I am not sure about having them in the dorms (honestly I'd rather it not be allowed). With the amount of traffic that dorm rooms get, the logistics of securing a weapon are daunting.

Allowing permit holders to carry on campus is one thing, but having them locked in a dorm is another.

How will the weapon be secured?
What burglary/fire rating will the safe be required to have?
Will you be required to bring your own approved safe or will the school provide you with one?
Will you have to register with school security?
What calibers will be allowed?
What size of pistol will be allowed?
What kind of ammunition will be allowed?
etc...

too much of a liability.

2/10/2009 10:43:06 AM

most universities that allow CCoC do not allow weapons in dorms. Seems like a simple solution to me.

2/10/2009 10:53:57 AM

^^I, and many other CCoC proponents, all agree that firearms should not be allowed in the dorms. Your concerns are the same as ours (security, burglary, immaturity of people, abundance of alcohol, etc). However, I believe allowing on campus residents to store firearms in their vehicles should be allowed - they can CC all day on campus, but must store the firearm in their vehicle before entering the dorm - yes it does pose some time frame when they are unable to defend themselves, but I think it's best that guns are not allowed in the dorms - that's just too many dangerous variables to mess with.



[Edited on February 10, 2009 at 11:08 AM. Reason : moving question to other gun thread]

2/10/2009 11:06:07 AM

Ah sorry I was responding to petejames' comment about dorms and guns.

Quote :

"but must store the firearm in their vehicle before entering the dorm"

that bothers me too, where someone could pick a vehicle at random and win a gun!

unless a specific lockbox was required for a permitted individual, i wouldn't be so keen on it.

not every car can fit a lockbox under a seat. a locked glovebox should not be allowed.

[Edited on February 10, 2009 at 11:28 AM. Reason : i]

2/10/2009 11:24:14 AM

^yeh, I gotcha. I was just stating that most of us are thinking along the same lines.

2/10/2009 11:27:31 AM

can't make the meeting tonight (got a date). someone please post minutes or a synopsis.

my thoughts on guns in dorms are the same as most of y'alls: NO. way too many bad things that could happen in short order, creating chaos in a confined space packed with (more than likely) individuals under 21 with no idea what they are doing.

as far as guns in cars on campus, i see no problem. If someone did break into your car and the cops got there before you did, they would run your plate and discover that you are a permit holder and would assume some likelihood that there could have been a weapon in your vehicle.

i think some folks are still having a little trouble wrapping their brains around the fact that students age 21 and older make up a very small percentage of the university demographic, and those with CCP's make up ~5% of those individuals.

2/10/2009 1:22:29 PM

you think it's even 5%?

I'd guess more like 1%, if that.

2/10/2009 1:26:44 PM

Quote :

"i think some folks are still having a little trouble wrapping their brains around the fact that students age 21 and older make up a very small percentage of the university demographic, and those with CCP's make up ~5% of those individuals."

people love to have kneejerk reactions to things they don't understand or just don't care enough about. they only care enough to keep you from having it.

2/10/2009 1:32:21 PM

There will be a segment on SCCC on the 6pm news on WRAL.

2/10/2009 2:45:12 PM

^^^ i just assumed 1 out of 20, but you're probably right- it's probably a lot less than that. I would venture to say that <1000 students have permits.

2/10/2009 2:52:38 PM

http://65.49.32.141/OrangeCounty/f5520d33-81fe-4810-96c8-913b32dcdb09/2-10-09AM/presentation_file/mgpresenter.html

Live video -- hearing in Orange County, California about a sheriff who was trying to revoke CCP's. Residents are fighting back. Note that clicking the above link will resize your browser window.

[Edited on February 10, 2009 at 3:29 PM. Reason : ]

2/10/2009 3:28:58 PM