Quote :

"Kay Yow died in January. You think a competent AD could have lined something up in 3 months. Not to mention the obvious candidate was Stephanie Glance. "

And the obvious candidate had 2 month after Yow's death to prove herself. And anyone else that Fowler wanted to hire was busy coaching their own teams.
The logical progression would be to send out some feelers, watch how those coaches do through the end of the season, watch how Glance does through the end of the season, get some interviews after the season is over.
So far, I don't see him being over his time limit.

Quote :

"You think Fowler hasn't alienated a lot of people, especially those close to the WBB program?"

By doing what? Conducting a search and including Glance in it?

Quote :

"You think this coaching search is going well do you?"

I have no idea how well it's going. That's the way it should be.

Do you have any idea how it's going? If you do, by all means, please spill the beans.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 11:06 AM. Reason : ]

4/10/2009 11:03:24 AM

^ yeah asshole, go to WRAL sports section and look at the top news story. That's how it is going.

4/10/2009 11:04:25 AM

So somebody in the athletic department let it be known that Glance is not going to be the next coach.
Isn't that how coaching searches are supposed to go? Get a few candidates, interview them, whittle down the list, make an offer?
I see nothing that indicates the process is going poorly.

So, I ask again, do you have any idea how it's going? How many offers have been made? How many have been refused? How many coaches have strung us along just to get a raise at their current school?
I don't know and haven't seen any information even hinting at an answer. Do you have any answers there?

4/10/2009 11:09:18 AM

Quote :

"Kay Yow died in January. You think a competent AD could have lined something up in 3 months."

He's had more than 3 months. It's not like it wasn't obvious for a while that Yow's time was limited.

4/10/2009 11:13:14 AM

Quote :

"And the obvious candidate had 2 month after Yow's death to prove herself."

2 months? REALLY?! That's how long a coach needs? 2 months? You should be extremely pissed off about our men's program then. How's Fowler doing on that one for ya?

Quote :

"So somebody in the athletic department let it be known that Glance is not going to be the next coach. Isn't that how coaching searches are supposed to go?"

No, that is exactly how they are NOT supposed to go.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 11:15 AM. Reason : []

4/10/2009 11:13:41 AM

Of course, it would have been better if no one had leaked that she was eliminated. But the mere fact that she was eliminated is no problem at all. Privately eliminated, completely and totally fine. Semi-publicly eliminated, fine, but it would have been better if no one leaked it. (And I say semi-publicly because there was no official announcement, no press conference, no interview, no quotes from Fowler - just "sources inside the program" leaking information.)

But still, is there anything that you know about that leads you to the conclusion that this search was somehow fucked up?

4/10/2009 11:19:31 AM

Two MONTHS?! After your best friend dies, you get 2 months to prove your worth, if not you can just get the fuck out?!

I'd love to see you address this 2 months thing you speak of and how then spin it to how it is acceptable for us to be absolute shit in Men's BB for 3 years.

4/10/2009 11:21:32 AM

I just don't think anybody would have been pissed if we hired Glance, that's why I think he fucked up... is there really anybody that was deadset against her being the coach? because there are and definitely were people that were very pro-Glance

4/10/2009 11:22:14 AM

Quote :

"2 months? REALLY?! That's how long a coach needs? 2 months?"

What I was getting at there was that Fowler couldn't have hired a new coach in the middle of the season, or even done extensive interviewing, because most of the prospective candidates had their own teams to worry about. No current head coach (Kellie Harper) or assistant coach (Shea Ralph) would accept the head coaching position or even come for a good interview during the middle of the season.
So the coaching search had to be put on hold until the end of the season. During that time, Glance got 2-3 months to work with the team and show a little of her head coach ability. After the season, Fowler could thoroughly interview all candidates. Glance (presumably) got her fair shot in an interview, and she also had the advantage of 2-3 months of on-the-job training and evaluation.

I'm not saying that her performance over these 2-3 months automatically disqualifies her. If she did well, it wouldn't have necessarily qualified her for the position, either. But Fowler was faced with an unavoidable 2 month delay, and during that time he got to watch Glance act as a head coach.
So the "obvious candidate" had a strong history, a strong recommendation from Yow, a legitimate interview, and 2 months of on-the-job training.

Quote :

"I just don't think anybody would have been pissed if we hired Glance, that's why I think he fucked up"

Sure, most people would have been fine with hiring Glance. Some would even have been very happy.

But Fowler did the absolute right thing in conducting a wide search and looking for the best possible choice. Anything less would have been fucking up. He thinks he has found someone better than Glance. That's a good thing, not a fuck-up.

No one was pissed when we hired Amato. No one was pissed when we hired Lowe.
Merely not being pissed at the hiring decision does not make it the best decision.

4/10/2009 11:36:31 AM

Quote :

"No one was pissed when we hired Amato. No one was pissed when we hired Lowe. Merely not being pissed at the hiring decision does not make it the best decision."

men's bball and football are totally different animals than womens bball...the vast majority of people would be fine with a glance hiring even if we end up not doing so well in terms of record under her. In this case, wins and losses isn't the first thing on everyone's mind...which is never the case with the two major men's sports.

4/10/2009 11:51:40 AM

Quote :

"What I was getting at there was"

backpedaling quicker than Deion Sanders

And I don't think you are taking into account the unusual circumstances of this particular coaching search. When a coach of 33 years and the face of NC State women's basketball wants to name her successor, she should be allowed to, especially if it was one of her dying wishes. She coached basketball at NC State for longer than we have even been alive. I'd like to think she has a little more insight into what is best for the program than Lee Fowler, and if not and it doesn't work out in a couple years, then move along. As ^ said, it's women's basketball, and Fowler slapped a lot of people in their faces by not hiring Glance.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 11:53 AM. Reason : []

4/10/2009 11:52:11 AM

Quote :

"backpedaling quicker than Deion Sanders"

My original post where I mentioned the 2 months was very clear in its qualifications. My later post ("what I was getting at...") says nothing that wasn't included or implied in the first one. Try reading the entire post instead of just partaking in a little bit of quote-mining.

Quote :

"men's bball and football are totally different animals than womens bball...the vast majority of people would be fine with a glance hiring even if we end up not doing so well in terms of record under her. In this case, wins and losses isn't the first thing on everyone's mind...which is never the case with the two major men's sports."

So we demand excellence in football and men's bball, but when it comes to women's bball, we don't necessarily demand excellence at all. We just want everybody to stay nice and rosy.


Wait, isn't that everybody's main complaint against Fowler in the first place? That he doesn't seem to care about the soccer teams and volleyball team and all our other crappy sports? We don't have to worry about getting the best coaches for those sports?

4/10/2009 12:02:17 PM

OhBoyeee, i'm surprised that you, of all people, would rather honor Yow's dying wish than find the best possible coach (and maybe that is glance). yes, i think glance should be given the chance, i just find it funny to see you on this side of the argument after the shit you talk in the credibility thread. you care about winning in men's basketball, but not so much in women's? sounds like you just want to argue.

4/10/2009 12:03:59 PM

I actually agree with OhBoyeee on this.

4/10/2009 12:10:35 PM

I do too, i just find his position in the argument funny. kind of scary.

4/10/2009 12:14:55 PM

Quote :

"you care about winning in men's basketball, but not so much in women's?"

I was under the impression this is how everybody thought

4/10/2009 12:16:59 PM

a losing football or men's basketball program doesn't generate nearly the same money as a pretty good program does.

a very good but not final 4 women's basketball program won't generate significantly more money than a decent to good team would.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 12:24 PM. Reason : ]

4/10/2009 12:24:13 PM

and a winning soccer team won't generate any more money than a losing one will, so should we keep Taratini?

4/10/2009 12:25:34 PM

Quote :

"i just find it funny to see you on this side of the argument after the shit you talk in the credibility thread. you care about winning in men's basketball, but not so much in women's?"

IF we hypothetically had a hall of fame coach that coached either men's basketball or football for 33 years and they wanted to name their successor, I'd likely have no problem with that either. Of course I want excellence in all sports, but not at the cost of morality.



[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 12:29 PM. Reason : []

4/10/2009 12:26:58 PM

Quote :

"So we demand excellence in football and men's bball, but when it comes to women's bball, we don't necessarily demand excellence at all. We just want everybody to stay nice and rosy."

I think you miss the point...in this situation, doing what's best for the school is hiring glance. If, down the road, she shows she can't win fine. If she does a good job, gravy.

in retrospect of either outcome, I still think people would agree it was the right thing to do.

4/10/2009 12:28:05 PM

^^^ no, we shouldn't

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM. Reason : ]

4/10/2009 12:28:33 PM

If we had a good basketball program and football program recently, then I think us sucking at ALL the other sports would be a non-issue, but since we haven't, our shittiness across the board only further highlights Lee Fowler's ineptitude.

And I said this in the other thread, for d7freestyler:

Quote :

"I said to give Glance at least a 2-3 year contract to see how she does. If she does poorly then I have no problems with getting rid of her. How many years have we given Lowe and how has he done, hence my position on Lowe."

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 12:47 PM. Reason : []

4/10/2009 12:29:36 PM

Giving Glance a short contract is worse than not hiring her outright.

"We're gonna hire you, but only because we kinda-sorta have to. We want to make sure we can go out and hire someone else pretty easily, so here's a half of a regular contract. Good luck recruiting."

4/10/2009 1:00:10 PM

Quote :

"Giving Glance a short contract is worse than not hiring her outright"

agreed, still gotta have at least 4 years to have at minimum, 1 year with all your recruits....although in this case she likely recruited most of the incoming players anyway.

4/10/2009 1:06:53 PM

Just curious, if things had been different and Valvano had ended up coaching here for the rest of his life and named a successor just before he died would people be so quick to dismiss hiring that person?

4/10/2009 1:11:54 PM

Who's quick to dismiss hiring Glance?

4/10/2009 1:13:17 PM

^^^^ that's a very valid point and something I didn't think of when suggesting the short contract. Recruiting would definitely suffer with only a 2 or 3 year contract. If they were going to hire her they would likely have to give her at least 4 years. I still think they should have hired Glance, though.

Watch her end up at some other program and be in the final four in a couple years, that would be some NC State shit right there.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 1:13 PM. Reason : ^]

4/10/2009 1:13:25 PM

^^ not necessarily anyone here, but I've seen plenty of comments and talked to several people that thought there was no reason to even consider Glance for the job because we should go out and get an established head coach.

4/10/2009 1:16:17 PM

As I said earlier, Glance could have left to a big-time school quite a few times. She wanted to stick it out with Yow and wait for the N.C. State job. Many other Athletic Directors wanted Glance to run their program, Fowler doesn't. I've never had a huge dislike for Fowler, but this puts me in that category with everyone else. This is a HUGE mistake. I can't imagine the backlash from the WBB community when they announce that Glance isn't hired as the head coach at N.C. State.

4/10/2009 3:42:08 PM

If they turned it around and decided to hire her, do you think she would even still want it? She may be like, "nah..you didn't want me originally, i'm going elsewhere..."

saw her in flying biscuit this morning and she was talking to a few ladies in wolfpack basketball t-shirts

4/10/2009 3:48:47 PM

An even better question is who are we going to hire that will take the job, considering how popular Kay Yow was in the WBB circle and now that this shit storm has been made public. Seems like it'd take a real sleaze bag to actually accept the job now. Guess we're in the wait and see mode now.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 4:01 PM. Reason : []

4/10/2009 4:00:53 PM

I love how the media and the WBB community have decided to try to dictate that we make a sentimental hire without any regard for whether or not it's the best decision for our program. I don't like Fowler at all, but he's making the right decision here. It's totally unfair and selfish for Yow's brother to come out and say the shit that he did...it looks really petty and bitter. No one is entitled to a job around here.

I loved Kay Yow as much as the next Wolfpack fan, but she was a human being, and she wasn't infallible. I think she would have been the first to admit that.

4/10/2009 5:04:06 PM

It's not like Yow wrote that letter and vouched for her as the next basketball coach because she was doing a shady friend a favor and trying to get somebody who wasn't qualified a guaranteed job.

Yow knew NC State WBB and she knew Stephanie Glance - are you saying Fowler is more capable of finding a quality replacement than Yow? Of course nobody's entitled to a job but damn, don't you think the blessing of Kay Yow and 15 years in the progam should count for something other than a 2 month interim deal?

4/10/2009 5:11:54 PM

i just think different rules apply here, good ol' southern etiquette and respect...... give Glance the job and if she doesn't pan out, get someone else down the road... no biggie..
I believe that's the sentiment of a most of people....and i'm just basing that off conversations i've had with friends and family and people out and a bout

4/10/2009 5:12:46 PM

I guess it just depends on who Fowler chose. If Pat Summit arrives at a press conference as our new coach, I doubt a single person will complain about sentimentality, etiquette, or respect.


Not that there's a chance in hell that Pat Summit will come here, but let's wait to see he actually hired before we automatically say it was a bad or "immoral" choice.

4/10/2009 5:18:28 PM

Quote :

"No one is entitled to a job around here."

it appears Lee Fowler is

4/10/2009 5:18:38 PM

Quote :

"Of course nobody's entitled to a job but damn, don't you think the blessing of Kay Yow and 15 years in the progam should count for something other than a 2 month interim deal?"

She got more than a 2 month interim deal - she was given a chance to apply and interview for the position. She didn't get the job. Maybe her interview went really poorly, maybe another candidate was more impressive...who knows. But to act like some great injustice has been done because she wasn't simply handed the job is ridiculous.

4/10/2009 5:18:41 PM

^ no it isn't, considering the circumstances. It is a huge injustice.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 5:20 PM. Reason : []

4/10/2009 5:20:41 PM

I would have been ticked that they even required me to have an interview....

I'd have told them where to put the service I put in for all those years.

4/10/2009 5:23:43 PM

Kodiak, if you want to trivialize 33 years of service and a Hall of Fame coaches request to promote her assistant who she has been grooming for 15 years to succeed her then so be it. It seems that your little pee brain can't grasp the magnitude of this blunder, and it likely never will be capable of grasping it either. Hopefully your pretty young and your brain and sense of humanity is still developing.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 5:32 PM. Reason : V very nice, when you know your wrong just cry "trolling"]

4/10/2009 5:28:48 PM

Anyone else tired of OhBoyeee trolling the shit out of Sports Talk?

4/10/2009 5:29:44 PM

He trolls and he's taking this non-hiring a little too extreme...

But I agree with the main point that Fowler should have hired her.

4/10/2009 5:32:47 PM

I'm not trolling and I resent any claim that I am trolling, especially in this thread. This is a very egregious mistake by our athletics department, and probably the most egregious one yet. If you have an issue with what I am posting then go cry in my thread in feedback forum, here I'll even link it for you:

message_topic.aspx?topic=561170

The RIGHT thing to do was to hire Stephanie Glance, no matter how you want to spin it.

4/10/2009 5:35:45 PM

Quote :

"little pee brain"

Yeah, not trolling. Go fuck yourself.

I'm sorry you can't handle the fact that college athletics isn't some little Happy Fun Club where no one's feelings ever get hurt, but facts are facts. It's a business, and making emotional decisions will get you nowhere.

4/10/2009 5:41:27 PM

Quote :

"It seems that your little pee brain can't grasp the magnitude of this blunder, and it likely never will be capable of grasping it either."

You didn't read or comprehend anything else I wrote in context did you?

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 5:44 PM. Reason : ]

4/10/2009 5:43:21 PM

None of it was of substance.

4/10/2009 5:49:14 PM

i cant wait to burn fuck up Fowler in the paper

4/11/2009 12:15:00 AM

We are interviewing Kellie Harper. Boner.

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009904140320

4/14/2009 1:02:57 PM

She played under the best women's coach ever and she's already proven herself at the lower division I level and is a hot commodity and a hottie.

What is there not to like?

4/14/2009 3:53:22 PM

^ dead coach didn't wish it so.

4/14/2009 4:07:37 PM