S/C for sure, not turbo. The difference in price is going to be big IMO, unless you go with some non-intercooled rear-mount single turbo (Do they make them for these cars?) and even then I think it will cost significantly more.

There are also issues with running a turbo on a budget because people pretty much always end up running a fucking MBC and get ridiculous amounts of part throttle boost as a result (I'm not a fan of MBCs, I want a computer controlled wastegate son). It can be pretty nasty over the long-term when the car is simply running an MBC.

8/10/2009 12:41:17 PM

i'll try to take some logs tonight of the recorded boost with the MBC. i have not noticed anything outrageous but dont stare at the gauge.


what exactly am I looking for? I take it it is worth the 40 bucks to change to an ECU controlled valve?

8/10/2009 12:49:03 PM

If you don't mind it then whatever.

I've just never enjoyed uncontrolled part throttle boost and from my understanding you can run lean during those conditions depending upon the setup of the car (I'm thinking like MAF senor vs. MAP sensor vs. both vs. no EFI at all when I say "setup" btw). I guess I may be wrong though son, but the possiblity of entering a lean condition under part throttle boost has been mentioned quite a bit to me in the past. I always thought it was because the MBC allowed boost levels to go way beyond stock for a given throttle input and, of course, the stock fuel maps at part throttle are not going to be providing enough fuel unless all of the extra air is accounted for (And that's why I say it would depend on the setup I imagine).

I'd prefer to use an ECU controlled solenoid to actuate the wastegate actuator son. That way you can fine tune the boost levels at various throttle positions son. I'm assuming a lot more than $40 unless you've already got an EBC or a good piggyback or standalone EMS (Again, that probably depends on the car though).

8/10/2009 12:53:51 PM

Oh and lots of part throttle boost is probably also a much bigger problem with small (Stock) turbochargers that are easily and quickly spooled up at lower rpms and at part throttle btw.

8/10/2009 1:24:12 PM

good piggyback, lol. try a stock OBD-1 ECU. the software is cheap and the hardware came with the car.

8/10/2009 5:27:57 PM

well it's not as simple as "MBC's cause too much part throttle boost and EBC's don't." There's so much going on like turbine housing size etc. It gets a lot trickier to get stable and predictable boost through the gears when you are trying to run a lot more boost than the rated spring pressure (like 20+ lbs on a 7psi spring).

i had a longer post in mind about ECU based EBC's and external EBC's but nobody's going to read it.

[Edited on August 10, 2009 at 6:59 PM. Reason : .]

8/10/2009 6:58:24 PM

^ Yeah, that's why I say it seemed to be a bigger problem on small (Stock) turbos. And I didn't say that an EBC will always solve the problem btw, because it wont necessarily. Something like the AEM EMS might do a damn good job at it though. A simple EBC (Like the Profec-B or whatever?) still doesn't seem all that adjustable from what I've seen.

Also keep in mind that just because I didn't mention every single possible reason for a turbocharged engine to have PTB issues doesn't mean I'm not aware of any of them. The SRT-4 was god awful about PTB because the turbo was so ridiculously tiny and most people trying to get more out of it would upgrade their WGA or put in an MBC (Or both) in an effort to hold more boost. This inevitably leads to lots of PTB with that car, tons and tons of it in fact. Which is probably due to the WGA spring issue as well as the fact that the turbine housing was unusually small on those cars and integrated into the exhaust manifold. This meant that it was easier to hold 20psi in the midrange than at redline because you simply could not flow enough air through it to hold 20psi at redline (They usually seem to fall to around 12psi at redline regardless of what the peak setting is). At least that has always been my understanding of the problem with that specific car. Again, this is where that whole "setup" disclaimer comes in as well.

But anyway, that's why I don't like them. They aren't a particularly exact tool and I'm simply not a fan of them at all. I seriously have no interest in using one again, ever.


I think my point was that even a simple EBC is usually better than an MBC. And beyond any discussion about long term engine health, when you get to high HP levels (And dear god, especially in FWD vehicles), having gear-dependent boost levels and shit is an extremely useful thing. This is where that MBC completely fucking fails and that "good piggyback"** (Or full EMS) you were laughing at comes in.

^^ ** When I say a "good piggyback" I'm referrring to something like DTEC, which actually has the ability to electronically control boost levels in a highly adjustable manner. Obviously an SAFC-II isn't exactly going to do shit. But don't worry Medicine Woman, you're still way cooler than everybody else with that OBD1 computer of yours.

8/11/2009 5:18:15 AM

And hell guys, didn't you know that MBC's are already so ridiculously over-engineered for their application that all the newest turbocharged cars come equipped with them from the factory? That Porsche 911 GT2 has one hell of a stock MBC setup son.


Well, at least it's what all the cool OBD1 guys are doing.



WOAH WOAH WOAH, WHAT IS ALL OF THIS AEM BOOST CONTROLLER BULLSHIT?!

http://www.titanmotorsports.com/20pogt2pr70.html

HE SHOULDA BOUGHT AN MBC MAN, WHAT A FUCKING MORON TO WASTE ALL OF THAT MONEY ON PROPER BOOST CONTROL.

8/11/2009 5:55:12 AM

I had the shitty boost curve you describe on my Rx-7 when I had stock turbo which had a 6psi spring and a wastegate that was barely adequate for a stock car.

I have had the best luck by running a stiffer spring that is close to the boost I would like to run in low gears. That's on a 44mm external wastegate routed into the downpipe, spring pressure is .9 bar or 13psi. So my boost is lower in 1st gear and at part throttle. With solenoid duty of about 50% (+/- 2% due to Power FC built in feedback control), I get around 13.5psi in 1st at WOT, then 15.5psi in the other gears.

The AVC-R lets you map solenoid duty, target boost, and feedback behavior by gear. The AEM Tru Boost is basically a dumb controller that just lets you set duty and opening pressure. The Greddy Profec Spec II lets you set duty, opening pressure, and some kind of generic gain setting. The Profec S just has some knobs and is pretty imprecise. Haltech, AEM EMS, and some other standalones do have fully adjustable PID style closed loop control and gear or vehicle speed based adjustments.

But the best boost controllers are the modern OEM ones.

[Edited on August 11, 2009 at 7:44 AM. Reason : typo]

8/11/2009 7:44:07 AM

I just want an EBC for mph / gear based boost like you said Saab. Is the part throttle boost spike fear of lack of fuel or that the engine cant handle it? I havnt seen any lack of fuel problems and I know the motor is fine. Mine also doesnt spool at 2500rpms either. It isnt going to sneak up on control loop (even a ball bearing and a spring).


I'll keep an eye on it.

Sorry to derail the 5.0HHHHHHHHHHH

8/11/2009 8:39:48 AM

oh boost dependent fueling injection pump, how I love thee.

8/11/2009 9:00:10 AM

yikes, thread has been hijacked.

just got back from a quick trip to the drags, got rained out half way through. starting to find some consitency. 9.5, 9.48, 9.42, 9.41 . All in a 2.0 60 ft range. On the last two I got a couple of decent burn outs and it stuck well, bogged off the line though so there is alot more to be had.

From what I have read seems like the car should be capable of a good 1.7 eventually.

8/13/2009 9:43:27 PM

not trying to be an asshole, but there's really no reason to still be running 60 ft. times that high on drag radials, especially mt's. not to mention the built/low geared diff. what's the deal? something up with the car? poor driving? track prep? with a stock engine and clutch, there's no reason not to stage that bitch on the rev limiter and dump the pedal.

8/13/2009 9:57:29 PM

dont knock the mans hustle

8/13/2009 10:02:04 PM

am i going to have to head up to wilkes and spank that ass a few times to get him in gear.... i tried to convince my friend to go tonight but we had been drinking a few and he wasnt interested

8/13/2009 10:35:14 PM

that track doesnt hook worth a shit. i know its never been properly preped. that track also sees lots of rice and lifted trucks from what i remember, the last time i ran there, this was about4 years ago though.

8/13/2009 11:10:37 PM

^ your correct. the track isnt prepped worth a damn as well as plenty of ricers and trucks. one of the reasons why that track is notoriously slooooow. when i get the chance i try to sneak in behind a dragster but there arent very many out on thursdays.

the other issue is i am still struggling to get the tires up to temp. hoping a line lock will help. id also like to take it down to mooresville or farmington for comparison but im not thrilled about driving it on the highway. might try to track down a trailer

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 6:41 AM. Reason : ...]

8/14/2009 6:38:54 AM

Quote :

"your correct"

No, it's my correct son.

8/14/2009 11:06:40 AM

why dont you just throw a pair of four banger wheels on it and limp it down to NAM.

nvever mind, that thing is gonna be all over the raod with that susp, and tire combo.

8/14/2009 5:36:56 PM

^wtf are you talking about? that setup is perfectly streetable. the only possible annoyance would be the 4.30 gears on the highway, but even that's not unbearable with OD...

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 5:58 PM. Reason : and nam would be a freakin haul from up that way, the only nc track further would be obx, way to go]

8/14/2009 5:56:36 PM

i dont think you know how ill handling those cars are without quad shocks and drag radials. shit is all over the lane

8/14/2009 5:59:51 PM

yeah, not a clue. i've only owned one. just because you fail at driving doesn't mean everyone else does.

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 6:34 PM. Reason : gtfo, we know your record of keeping a fox away from curbs and off of trees]

8/14/2009 6:33:26 PM

i could possibly drive it on 40 for a bit, not really looking forward to it though. ive got a bit of a vibration over 65

got to head back to the track tonight since it was rained out last night. best yet. 9.14 @ 77
1.96 60 ft . slow night so fairly cold track, no DHT.


on a side note, talking to someone that would know today I was told the best times the pro mods run 60 ft are about a 1.59 - 1.67. said the owners frequently dont use any dht and if they do its only 1 lane. damn shady fuckers, may have to start going to a different track.

[Edited on August 14, 2009 at 10:00 PM. Reason : ....]

8/14/2009 9:56:40 PM

Quote :

"best times the pro mods run 60 ft are about a 1.59 - 1.67"

lol, that's terrible. my stock suspension (as in all stock, not this "stock style" bs) full weight street car consistently goes faster than that and has been a best of a 1.43 60ft.

poor prep makes sense... i figured it had to be something. you should be well into the 8's anywhere else.

8/14/2009 10:58:47 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mww4SG9dASw

8/15/2009 11:01:54 AM

use pancake syrup on the tires

10/15/2009 7:32:52 AM

engine is out, didnt put up much of a fight. going to clean it up a bit and start tearing it down next weekend to see exactly what I have got to work with. Planning on going with a top end kit from Doug Herbert.

10/19/2009 7:38:24 PM

looks like shit

10/19/2009 9:09:10 PM

thats because a sbf is shit

10/19/2009 9:24:31 PM

that makes a buick 215 look like an LS2

10/19/2009 9:25:44 PM

Cardboardbureted?

10/19/2009 11:10:16 PM

looks better than the motor in your Gutless.

10/20/2009 12:07:54 AM

Better than the motor you don't have.

10/20/2009 8:39:33 AM

lmao, where is the thread where he claimed he spent 10k on that pos, and was gonna try to salvage it out of the car he wrapped around a lightpole shitfaced drunk?

10/21/2009 1:08:43 PM

made alot of progress this afternoon..





also have most of the engine compartment cleaned up, painted, and simplified.

11/14/2009 4:15:47 PM

looks good. 400whp?

11/14/2009 5:12:36 PM

hoping for that at the crank, figure if I port and shave the heads later it might get me to that.

11/14/2009 6:32:41 PM

Quote :

"lmao, where is the thread where he claimed he spent 10k on that pos, and was gonna try to salvage it out of the car he wrapped around a lightpole shitfaced drunk?"

lol, he claimed he had $14K in the car. pretty sad considering what you can buy for $14K spent correctly.

11/14/2009 6:51:50 PM

^ wtf are you talking about? where is your shit at. I love this shit you guys try so hard and dont know one single thing. please lets ruin another thread here. great job.
well not to highjack but you have to spend decent money to build a car to handle the power. look at the shit hole body panels all you want.

11/14/2009 11:23:15 PM

^ stfu you faggot ass faggot


and whats with the chevy orange on a sbf?

11/16/2009 10:49:52 AM

according to the lid its supposed to be ford red, camera distorts the color a bit.

11/16/2009 12:17:44 PM

looks sweet. good job

11/16/2009 12:53:18 PM

shoulda gone with dark blue

11/17/2009 2:20:17 PM

should have gone with whatever color u wanted, bc it's ur build. oh wait u did

11/17/2009 2:55:35 PM

maybe its something about going to state but i hate all things blue, lol

11/17/2009 7:53:53 PM

Quote :

"OLD RUSTY BOLTS"

11/18/2009 4:43:37 PM

shoulda gone with dark blue

Quote :

"should have gone with whatever color u wanted, bc it's ur build. oh wait u did "

he's not a nigger like you, at least he didn't paint it puke green

11/20/2009 12:17:26 PM

or 350Z orange

11/20/2009 12:44:43 PM

I like that color.
Although I probably wouldn't one in that color if it weren't a steal because resell is a pain on them.

11/20/2009 2:50:16 PM

i wouldn't paint an engine period. i do think it looks good though.

11/20/2009 3:11:42 PM