the genius leader behind this movement on Colbert last night:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/229691/july-28-2009/womb-raiders---orly-taitz

7/29/2009 4:29:56 PM

i havent really been paying strict attention to this. it's kind of painfully embarassing to watch the republicans make complete fools of themselves. i figured it was just a fringe group, so i was surprised to see how far this has gone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories

7/29/2009 5:20:33 PM

looking at the scanned Honolulu Advertiser ad makes me think of something:

1. Head north on Lowella Ave toward Ashley Ave
2. Turn right at Ashley Ave
3. Turn left at Lehua Ave
4. Turn right at HI-99/Kamehameha Hwy
5. Slight right at HI-78 E (signs for HI-78/Honolulu/I-H1)
6. Continue on HI-78 E/I-H201 E (signs for HI-78/Honolulu)
7. Merge onto I-H1 E
8. Continue on HI-72/Kalanianaole Hwy
9. Arrive at 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy

7/29/2009 6:10:13 PM

this whole shit is absurd. like, blood shooting out of my ears absurd.

7/29/2009 6:10:44 PM

original certificate:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/07/the-original-ctd.html

[Edited on July 29, 2009 at 6:22 PM. Reason : and yeah i think sully's a little ridiculous on this issue]

7/29/2009 6:21:59 PM

ha. i've ignored this thread since it was made cause i hated the title..."the birther movement"...wtf is this shit(i say to myself)

now that i know what its about, i think *carlface*

7/29/2009 6:28:00 PM

your entire life is one big carlface.

how about you just go get in a fatal, single car accident

7/29/2009 6:34:46 PM

Quote :

"So, that leaves what of your list? Immigration (maybe? If they're not fantastic pussies about it.) Censorship? Have you listened to Michael Copps? Religion in public life? Well, I guess that's a nice consolation prize for socialized medicine."

actually, this wasn't a plea for anyone to work with the Democrats so much as it's a way of saying that the Libertarians, no matter how right they might be in some instances, are not a mainstream party.

As far as the birther thing goes, I see a bunch of videos come up in the related issues bar on this sometimes when I'm searching YouTube, so some people care enough to make videos.

Oh, and add to the list the guy that publishes and runs the Rhinocerous "We Print 150,000 Copies That People Use For Bird Cages, We Must Be Popular!" Times in Greensboro, he had an editorial screed this week supporting it. Yep, the conservative voice of Greensboro is a birther. Actually, to be more accurate, he is more of a...libertarian.

[Edited on July 30, 2009 at 1:37 PM. Reason : .]

7/30/2009 1:34:54 PM

and it should be over?

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 3:43 PM. Reason : by now]

7/31/2009 3:42:15 PM

This is an interesting perspective:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=&w=MA

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 3:46 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2009 3:46:22 PM

no, it's really not

7/31/2009 4:05:51 PM

D'oh

7/31/2009 4:10:23 PM

^^Why? I think it raises some good issues. Sure, the GOP is becoming unhinged with this particular line of questioning, but is it right to just ignore the points being raised?

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 4:11 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2009 4:10:57 PM

so you admit to being a birther??

7/31/2009 4:17:15 PM

Since when did "birther" become synonymous with being willing to entertain questions about the President?

7/31/2009 4:18:16 PM

Entertaining questions that he might not be a citizen, you mean.

7/31/2009 4:19:59 PM

Did you read the article I referenced?

7/31/2009 4:20:14 PM

That article is garbage.

"We're totally not saying he's a foreign-born Muslim Manchurian Candidate, but why won't he confess to being a foreign-born Muslim Manchurian Candidate? It's a matter of honesty!"

7/31/2009 4:22:36 PM

The article is not about questioning his citizenship. It's more a question of the media's reaction to this whole issue. Why is it not okay to do more research into the President's past? Why is it not okay to have doubts about his upbringing?

I'm not saying his upbringing should matter, or that he's not a citizen, but since when did it become taboo for citizens to doubt their President? And with the current approval ratings, it's not just the "birthers" who are doubting him.

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 4:28 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2009 4:27:28 PM

Quote :

"since when did it become taboo for citizens to doubt their President?"

hey this thread is about the kooks and conspiracy theorists who DOUBT HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII. that's it and that's all.

7/31/2009 4:38:17 PM

I know more about Joe The Plumber's background than our President's

Wait, this thread is 3 pages? holy fuck

7/31/2009 4:47:19 PM

I still don't see why he won't release his full birth-certificate... I don't see why he won't release his college transcripts. I don't see why he won't release his college papers. i don't see why, frankly, he won't do what every other fucking politician has been more than willing to do. Hell, what we basically expect them to do.

What amuses me are the people who say "LOOK, HERE'S HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!" and expect that to be the end of the situation. Ordinarily, it would, except that there are other factors at play here, namely sworn affidavits from relatives who say that he was born elsewhere. Certainly a gov't form issued based on information known to be false by the applicant doesn't negate the fraudulent information, does it? That's one of the reasons people want to see the long-form. It would shed more light on the situation. If Obama truly was born in the hospital, then what does he have to lose by releasing the long-form certificate that proves it? No, he's just playing politics, giving a big FUCK YOU to people with possibly legitimate questions. He's no better than Bush.

And, no, a birth announcement proves only one thing: that he was born (wow) and his folks knew the number of the newspaper.

Was Obama born in the US? I would sure like to find out, as there is certainly evidence to both sides of the argument. But, instead of putting the issue to rest, Obama just continues his megalomaniac tendency to be an ass.

7/31/2009 8:56:10 PM

^ the "short form" proves he was born here, in the US. The long form can't shed any more "light" than is already being shed.

^ and according to Bill O'Reilly, the newspapers got their info directly from the hospitals, not from people calling in birth announcements.

And there's not "evidence" to both sides of the argument. There is not a single shred of actual, physical evidence to suggest Obama wasn't born in the US. Compare this to several physical pieces of evidence indicating that Obama was in fact born in the us.

[Edited on July 31, 2009 at 9:00 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2009 8:58:41 PM

Quote :

"the "short form" proves he was born here, in the US. The long form can't shed any more "light" than is already being shed."

No it doesn't. It only proves that he was issued a birth certificate. It doesn't say which hospital, if any, he was born at.

Quote :

"and according to Bill O'Reilly, the newspapers got their info directly from the hospitals, not from people calling in birth announcements."

So NOW you'll trust O'Reilly? And, I'm sure that no one could possibly call in a birth announcement. Or it is not at all possible that a person not born in a hospital would be brought to the hospital for a post-birth check-up or whatever and the hospital would report the birth anyway.

Quote :

"And there's not "evidence" to both sides of the argument. There is not a single shred of actual, physical evidence to suggest Obama wasn't born in the US."

Like sworn affidavits. Or other evidence that Obama was a citizen of Indonesia (which is a bullshit technicality, I'll admit, but evidence nonetheless)

Quote :

"Compare this to several physical pieces of evidence indicating that Obama was in fact born in the us."

And what would those be? Documents which may have been filed with false information? Do you also take the Chinese documents giving the age of their gold-medal gymnasts as 16 as true?

7/31/2009 9:08:38 PM

Quote :

"No it doesn't. It only proves that he was issued a birth certificate. It doesn't say which hospital, if any, he was born at. "

Uhh... yes it does.

It is a Hawaii birth certificate. Someone not born in Hawaii can't get a Hawaiian birth certificate.

Quote :

"So NOW you'll trust O'Reilly? And, I'm sure that no one could possibly call in a birth announcement. Or it is not at all possible that a person not born in a hospital would be brought to the hospital for a post-birth check-up or whatever and the hospital would report the birth anyway. "

I'm not saying I trust O'Reilly, but frankly this issue is far too stupid for me to go digging deeper than I have to. I'm saying that YOU could try to learn the truth if you wanted to, instead of listening to the nutjob Orly Taitz, and this is merely a lead for you to follow.

The birth certificate and newspaper accounts are very compelling, and are all the evidence that I need. Your baseless assertion that his family organized to trick the newspapers (for what purpose...? did they know when Obama was a baby that they'd need fake articles so that he could be president?) is really, really dumb, even for you.

Quote :

"Like sworn affidavits. Or other evidence that Obama was a citizen of Indonesia (which is a bullshit technicality, I'll admit, but evidence nonetheless) "

And whether Obama ever legally became a citizen of Indonesia has no bearing on whether he was a "natural born" citizen. He can't be "re-born" as a non-natural born citizen. I have not heard anything about "sworn affidavits," but considering this has never gone to trial, I somehow doubt these affidavits exist. And even if they did, it is still only someone's word, and Obama's extended family runs the gamut of personalities.

Quote :

"And what would those be? Documents which may have been filed with false information? Do you also take the Chinese documents giving the age of their gold-medal gymnasts as 16 as true? "

Haha, are you kidding right now? Are you just trying to troll? You can't seriously believe what you're saying, can you?

Considering the confluence of information that indicates Obama is a natural born citizen, you are suggesting a fairly well-thought out and large conspiracy to hide the truth about Obama's birth. What you're suggesting is tantamount to my suggestion that none of "this" is real, and reality as you know it is an elaborate fabrication to prepare you for life in what we perceive as the distant future where humans live forever, but they want people to start living with a full set of life experiences. You have no means to prove this theory wrong.

What happens if Obama ordered Hawaii to release his original birth certificate, do you honestly think people will be satisfied? How do you know this isn't a fabrication too? Afterall, whoever is in charge of this conspiracy has ample time to fake an "old" long-form birth certificate. Orly Taitz already admitted that no evidence at this point would convince her Obama was born here (this is primarily because she's of the false impression that no matter where Obama was born, if his father wasn't a citizen, he can't be a citizen).

7/31/2009 9:27:36 PM

Quote :

"The birth certificate and newspaper accounts are very compelling, and are all the evidence that I need."

Yes. Compelling evidence that HE WAS BORN. that's about it.

Quote :

"Your baseless assertion that his family organized to trick the newspapers"

I never said they actually "tricked" the newspapers. Just that they could have, you know, PHONED IT IN and the newspapers included it with the other ones. Is that too hard to imagine?

Quote :

"(for what purpose...? did they know when Obama was a baby that they'd need fake articles so that he could be president?) "

This is the dumbest fucking argument you can pull out. Yes, they knew he was gonna be president one day, dumbass. Come on. Is it maybe possible that they just, you know, wanted him to be an American citizen? You know, like so many mexican women want for their children that they sneak across the border and have a kid in the hospital? Jesus Christ, that is fucking stupid to bring up.

Quote :

"And whether Obama ever legally became a citizen of Indonesia has no bearing on whether he was a "natural born" citizen."

Actually, it DOES. If you are natural-born and then renounce your citizenship, you are, shockingly, no longer a natural-born citizen. What a fucking amazing concept! I might apply for the Nobel Prize with this bit of amazing thought! Guess what? You can't hold dual-citizenship in Indonesia. SO guess what that means if Obama was technically a citizen there (which he had to be in order to attend school there, which he did)? He had to have lost his US citizenship. Holy fucking logic, Batman! Again, it would be a bullshit technicality, but it is still valid evidence.

Quote :

"I have not heard anything about "sworn affidavits," but considering this has never gone to trial"

Actually, it had gone to trial before the election in PA. However, the trial was not allowed to proceed, as was mentioned in a previous thread. You might stand to do a little research, you know. Hell, it was fucking quoted in this thread, for crying out loud.

Quote :

"Considering the confluence of information that indicates Obama is a natural born citizen"

Which would be what, exactly? Documents that may have been filed with false information? That was, you know, the whole point of the Chinese example. That a gov't document does not always indicate the truth. I know, it's a shocker, but people do lie...

Quote :

"you are suggesting a fairly well-thought out and large conspiracy to hide the truth about Obama's birth."

I don't think it's a "well-thought out and large conspiracy." There's no indication of this.

Quote :

"What happens if Obama ordered Hawaii to release his original birth certificate, do you honestly think people will be satisfied?"

It all depends on what is on that certificate. If it says "Barry was born in this hospital on this day, and the Doctor was so and so," I know that I would accept it. The nuts out there like Crazy Eileen would follow up with bullshit stories about the document being a fake, which is far from what I would say, absent any shred of evidence to the contrary.

However, if the long-form says that he was brought in to the hospital after birth, do you think that might lend credence, no matter how small, to the claims of the "birthers?"

I'll say it again: if Obama has nothing to hide, then why not do as pretty much every other politician before him, and release full records of his birth, his medical records, his college records, and his college works? I'm not trying to go with the "OMG WHAT IS HE HIDING" route, but why won't he release things that we have basically come to expect?

7/31/2009 9:53:10 PM

Quote :

"I never said they actually "tricked" the newspapers. Just that they could have, you know, PHONED IT IN and the newspapers included it with the other ones. Is that too hard to imagine? "

It is pretty hard to imagine, actually.

Quote :

"This is the dumbest fucking argument you can pull out. Yes, they knew he was gonna be president one day, dumbass. Come on. Is it maybe possible that they just, you know, wanted him to be an American citizen? You know, like so many mexican women want for their children that they sneak across the border and have a kid in the hospital? Jesus Christ, that is fucking stupid to bring up. "

The "fake" birth certificate (that somehow got filed with the Hawaii government) is enough for him to be a natural born American citizen.

No need for the elaborate trick the newspapers scheme. In fact, a fake call to the newspaper would be MORE likely to cause their plot to be uncovered.

Quote :

"Actually, it DOES. If you are natural-born and then renounce your citizenship, you are, shockingly, no longer a natural-born citizen. What a fucking amazing concept! I might apply for the Nobel Prize with this bit of amazing thought! Guess what? You can't hold dual-citizenship in Indonesia. SO guess what that means if Obama was technically a citizen there (which he had to be in order to attend school there, which he did)? He had to have lost his US citizenship. Holy fucking logic, Batman! Again, it would be a bullshit technicality, but it is still valid evidence. "

lols

For someone so concerned with the "legal" status of Obama's birth, you might would have realized that the US has no official means of renouncing your citizenship. Therefore Obama would have never been able to, even if he wanted to, renounce his status as a natural born US citizen, as far as the US government is concerned.

Quote :

"Which would be what, exactly? Documents that may have been filed with false information? That was, you know, the whole point of the Chinese example. That a gov't document does not always indicate the truth. I know, it's a shocker, but people do lie... "

Confluence? Do you know what this word means?

Quote :

"I don't think it's a "well-thought out and large conspiracy." There's no indication of this. "

From your statements in this thread, you must certainly do think it's a well thought out, large conspiracy.

Quote :

"I'll say it again: if Obama has nothing to hide, then why not do as pretty much every other politician before him, and release full records of his birth, his medical records, his college records, and his college works? I'm not trying to go with the "OMG WHAT IS HE HIDING" route, but why won't he release things that we have basically come to expect? "

Obama has released as much records of his birth as anyone else ever has, probably more (I don't recall seeing a scanned copy of Bush's birt cert).

From morbid curiosity, i'd like to see other records on him, but they have no bearing on his birth.

And Obama is the president, and he's probably annoyed that people doubt his birth. If I were in his shoes, and I knew I was born here, and someone demanded exorbitant evidence, i'd spit in their face, whether I had the means to provide it or not.

7/31/2009 10:13:56 PM

Quote :

"It is pretty hard to imagine, actually."

Then you must have lost your imagination, then.

Quote :

"The "fake" birth certificate"

Remind me again where I said it was "fake..." Strawman.

Quote :

"No need for the elaborate trick the newspapers scheme."

Again, didn't say they "tricked" the newspapers. Strawman...

Quote :

"In fact, a fake call to the newspaper would be MORE likely to cause their plot to be uncovered."

How do you figure? All the call would do is say "Obama was born, yo." It didn't say "Obama was born at hospital X on day Y. Vote for him, G!"

Quote :

"For someone so concerned with the "legal" status of Obama's birth, you might would have realized that the US has no official means of renouncing your citizenship. Therefore Obama would have never been able to, even if he wanted to, renounce his status as a natural born US citizen, as far as the US government is concerned."

Oh really? Talking out your ass, maybe?>
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html

Quote :

"From your statements in this thread, you must certainly do think it's a well thought out, large conspiracy."

False. That's called a Strawman. You are good at them.

Quote :

"If I were in his shoes, and I knew I was born here, and someone demanded exorbitant evidence"

I know, it's exorbitant. Please provide more details as to your lawful requirements for office, given these valid questions we have. Really, that's exorbitant? Why not just settle the fucking matter?

8/1/2009 12:26:06 AM

because the "issue" is making you people look like complete kooks. why would he want to stop you all from embarrassing yourselves

8/1/2009 12:55:29 AM

yeah the ppl that harp on this look like complete idiots

8/1/2009 1:06:33 AM

Dear aaronburro:

please stop using the word "strawman". It does not mean what you think it means.

Thanks.

8/1/2009 1:47:36 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHA some assholes in this thread truly believe this bullshit. Thankfully, now I know who to never engage in any kind of debate with.

8/1/2009 2:11:51 AM

Quote :

"I know, it's exorbitant. Please provide more details as to your lawful requirements for office, given these valid questions we have. Really, that's exorbitant? Why not just settle the fucking matter? "

He's done everything legally required. The questions people have aren't valid.

Quote :

"Oh really? Talking out your ass, maybe?> http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.html "

Hmm... I guess I was wrong about that, but that link serves to further prove my point, thanks. Obama never performed any of those tasks, and therefore could never have renounced his status of being a natural-born citizen.

8/1/2009 2:30:33 PM

I wasn't born here so I can't be President. That's why I don't vote. IF THEY DON'T WANT ME I DON'T WANT THEM!

8/1/2009 4:43:09 PM

aaronburro has got to be a parody poser or troll. No one can be that consistently stupid...can they?

8/1/2009 5:32:44 PM

Quote :

"Dear aaronburro: please stop using the word "strawman". It does not mean what you think it means. Thanks."

When someone puts words into your mouth and then attacks you on those words, it's a strawman. nice try.

Quote :

"He's done everything legally required. The questions people have aren't valid."

I know, sworn affidavits don't mean shit, right?

Quote :

"Hmm... I guess I was wrong about that, but that link serves to further prove my point, thanks. Obama never performed any of those tasks, and therefore could never have renounced his status of being a natural-born citizen."

Imagine that, you talked out of your ass. Good work. Like I said, it was a bullshit technicality, and I would call bullshit if he were DQed on those grounds. BUT, they are still technically valid grounds.

8/1/2009 5:45:18 PM

aaronburro:

Quote :

"Which would be what, exactly? Documents that may have been filed with false information? ...a gov't document does not always indicate the truth."

moron:

Quote :

"The "fake" birth certificate (that somehow got filed with the Hawaii government) is enough for him to be a natural born American citizen."

aaronburro:

Quote :

"Remind me again where I said it was "fake..." Strawman."

No straw man argument in sight.


moron:

Quote :

""From your statements in this thread, you must certainly do think it's a well thought out, large conspiracy." "

aaronburro:

Quote :

"False. That's called a Strawman."

No, it's not. It is just his opinion of your true stance on the issue.

[Edited on August 1, 2009 at 7:12 PM. Reason : .]

8/1/2009 7:11:47 PM

a fake document would be a forgery. A document filled out with false information that was still issued by the government is not a forgery. Ergo, strawman.

as for the second example, telling me what my opinion is is very much the basis of a strawman, especially when he continues to attack that opinion.

8/1/2009 7:27:38 PM

I don't particularly care for Obama, but this shit is stupid.

If you drew a diagram of people who believe in this bullshit, and people who dont think we landed on the moon, I bet the intersection is huge.

8/1/2009 10:19:38 PM

^^You're an idiot. Stop crying "straw man" all the time because that's the only logical fallacy you can remember from that time you googled them in an effort to sound smart.

8/2/2009 1:14:22 AM

^lol

burrotard pwnt itt

8/2/2009 5:18:17 PM

why is this still being posted in. does two clownshit insane trolls really count as a movement

8/2/2009 5:50:11 PM

obviously enough for you to respond

8/2/2009 6:51:59 PM

Scientific poll:

QUESTION: Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?
YES NO NOT SURE

ALL 77 11 12
MEN 75 12 13
WOMEN 79 10 11
DEM 93 4 3
REP 42 28 30
IND 83 8 9
OTH/REF 80 9 11
NON VOTERS 84 7 9
WHITE 71 14 15
BLACK 97 1 2
LATINO 87 6 7
OTHER/REF 88 6 6
18-29 88 4 8
30-44 72 14 14
45-59 82 8 10
60+ 69 17 14
NORTHEAST 93 4 3
SOUTH 47 23 30
MIDWEST 90 6 4
WEST 87 7 6

http://www.dailykos.com/statepoll/2009/7/30/US/320

8/2/2009 8:41:35 PM

^shoulda bolded the south too

8/2/2009 8:45:55 PM

let's hear it for OLD WHITE SOUTHERN REPUBLICAN MALES !!!






[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 10:11 PM. Reason : ]

8/2/2009 10:10:09 PM

Quote :

"You're an idiot. Stop crying "straw man" all the time because that's the only logical fallacy you can remember from that time you googled them in an effort to sound smart."

I will call strawman when there is a strawman. I'm sorry that that is the only tactic that seems to work for moron

8/2/2009 10:31:19 PM

dude, you're an idiot, and you don't even know what the fuck a strawman argument consists of.

everybody's laughing at you, and the people who might be inclined to support your "issues" are embarrassed by your ignorance.

8/2/2009 10:50:30 PM

Quote :

"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1] [2] Presenting and refuting a weakened form of an opponent's argument can be a part of a valid argument. For example, one can argue that the opposing position implies that at least one of two other statements - both being presumably easier to refute than the original position - must be true. If one refutes both of these weaker propositions, the refutation is valid and does not fit the above definition of a "straw man" argument."

8/2/2009 10:55:50 PM

Given that everyone in this thread thinks burro's argument was properly engaged, there are really only two options:

1. Burro's full of crap

2. Burro is terrible at communicating what he really thinks.

8/2/2009 11:26:59 PM