http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-18-2009/the-gun-show---barrel-fever

8/19/2009 5:26:39 PM

We also used Tea Parties to protest Obama taking our guns and he hasn't taken them away yet. This is clearly working.

8/19/2009 6:10:58 PM

Tell a varmint hunter that his AR-15 is an assault rifle.

8/19/2009 7:21:33 PM

Quote :

"Obama isn't going to take away your guns"

yeh, his support of the AWB says this too!

8/19/2009 7:29:42 PM

Quote :

"In terms of the average citizen open carrying, I respect their right to, however if you are going to carry for defense it makes much more sense to carry concealed. I dont know if open carry invites trouble per say, but I definitely think open carrying requires a LOT more vigilance on the part of the carrier. When blatantly wearing a gun in the open, you need to absolutely be concerned with weapon retention, and I think the average person does not think about that or have the situational awareness required. For example, open carrying at lets say the grocery store, the carrier may be preoccupied for a moment at the counter, not paying attention to the bad guy behind him, who can easily disarm him while he is distracted. Im willing to bet with certainty that the average open carrier person most likely does not have a level 3 retention holster, the knowledge, skill and training in weapon retention, the training to always keep his "gun hand" free and protecting of the weapon, and the situational awareness to always think about people behind him or on his strong side. Now I am all for honest citizens being allowed to carry, I just think concealed carry for the average person is more prudent and safe, so long as they are proficient with the weapon as well as how to draw and present from concealment. The only instance i can think of where open carry would be smart would be for a store owner in his store. It could act as a visible deterrent, and at least he is in a somewhat controlled environment as opposed to being among a crowd in various situations. Of course open carry in ones own home is also a good idea as well."

Just to add to my points, anyone open carrying in public should have training on how to do so. They should also have some type of retention holster, even if its not a level 3. The average thumb break by itself is not good enough to be considered a retention holster. I know in police training, they beat it into you to be aware and protecting of your weapon at all times. We trained in weapons retention in the academy and yearly in service, and throughout the academy instructors would always try to sneak up on a cadet not paying attention to steal their "red gun" from their holster. In the academy it is beaten into you that every encounter you have with anyone as a cop is an armed one because your weapon is always there. You are taught to always keep your gun hand free, and to stand in a way that leaves your gun hand near or resting on the gun. You are also trained to be aware of your positioning and to be aware of your strong side when facing people. If by chance you dont learn to practice this on the road as a rookie, any good field training officer will beat it into you. I know personally, I am always thinking about where others are in relation to my strong side. This type of open carry mindset is built into someone with training and experience, and yet there are still cases of cops being disarmed. So, my point is, that even someone experienced and trained can be disarmed when open carrying, it does not make much sense for the average person without that training and experience or proper holster to do it. Carrying concealed is generally a much better way for a defensive gun carrier.

8/19/2009 11:00:02 PM

^ and maybe it goes without saying, but the pictures of the guys with guns at the rallies show that they are generally casually walking through crowded areas with loaded guns loosely holstered to their thighs and casually slung over their backs with very little situational awareness of what's going on around and behind them, especially when they seem to be more interested in giving interviews than paying attention to the guns on their bodies.

8/19/2009 11:09:32 PM

Quote :

"yeh, his support of the AWB says this too!"

Again, I think he'd positively love to take (at least some) of our guns away. Why shouldn't us gun folks take advantage of the fact that he has other shit on his plate right now? Why should we be going out of our way to hand him ammunition (no pun intended) to use against us later, when he has capital to spend on the issue?

Rather than going about sticking with business as usual and keeping a relatively low profile, these gun-toting protesters and others who insist on yelling about their gun rights are going out of their way to keep the issue in the the public mind. I've got bad news for you -- that's not where you want it to be. You want it out of the public mind entirely. The less people are thinking about guns, the less likely we are to lose them.

^Another good point. I doubt any of these guys will ever use their weapon. You don't go to assassinate a president with your gun hanging out for all the Secret Service to see. But simply by introducing a gun into the situation, there's an increased risk.

Look, we already say "No guns in courthouses, schools, or banks." I can live with that. I could also live with adding "and any place where you can see the fucking President."

8/19/2009 11:34:12 PM

I can only see one way gun rights will persist, and that's a positive public image of guns. The problem being that many people have a negative viewpoint towards guns, especially those in cities. The only solution I could see is to invite more people to open range days and let them fire .22's with firearms instructors. If someone who is marginally scared of guns has the chance to handle one in a low-pressure atmosphere, they will most likely alleviate at least some of their fear toward them. If enough people were to become acquainted with the shooting sports, the overall popularity would grow which would in turn solidify a positive public standing of firearms. The problem is that the mass media generally has their own agenda and will wring information through some device until such time it appears to be in their favor. I believe the general agenda of the mass media is to centralize their influence over the people through panic, who in turn will watch more media reports in some sort of cycle of fear.

I cannot comment with experience about open carry weapon retention because I've never been in a situation where it was critical. I've only open carried on my family's private property. I do feel that a molded thumbsnap holster does okay for large unwieldy revolvers due to barrel length and the overall forward angle of the holster. Although, I think that any holster where a gun can be quickly drawn from to present to a threat is apt to have retention issues; even level 3 holsters are cleared in one continuous motion. Worse than retention issues would be a man with a knife who is close enough to provide retention issues.

8/19/2009 11:54:34 PM

Quote :

"The only solution I could see is to invite more people to open range days and let them fire .22's with firearms instructors. If someone who is marginally scared of guns has the chance to handle one in a low-pressure atmosphere, they will most likely alleviate at least some of their fear toward them."

Some people, this would help. A lot of people, I'm afraid, would think that their afternoon of experience made them qualified to handle guns, and thus make them more likely to act stupidly around them in the future.

8/19/2009 11:57:09 PM

Quote :

""Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, said people are entitled to carry weapons outside such events if local laws allow it. 'There are laws that govern firearms that are done state or locally,' he said. 'Those laws don't change when the president comes to your state or locality.'""

This whole ordeal just has me wondering what would happen if say 50 people show up at a rally carrying rifles. The secret service can easily keep their sights on one or two, but how many would it take for them to say, "fuck this, you're not going out on that stage."

8/20/2009 12:08:57 AM

I don't necessarily have a problem with this protest or anything..

Like most of you, I just don't get it. What were they trying to accomplish? Because they're going to look like assholes if somehow this starts some kind of "Bring Yer Guns Out to See the President" type revolution and somebody actually gets hurt.

8/20/2009 8:20:57 AM

im not scared of guns

im scared of people with guns

8/20/2009 3:13:26 PM

^ if only you knew how many gun totin' people you walk past on a daily basis.......

8/20/2009 10:15:56 PM

I bought an AR-15 at the Gun show at Dorton several years ago. Traded it to my bro, who is a paramedic, for a nice shotgun. I feel the shotgun is better for what I want b/c I can bird hunt with it and it is great for home defense. But damn that little AR-15 was a fun gun to have because it did look mean (got it in camo) and was fun and easy to fire on the range, not to mention cheap on the ammo. I think the wife would have been more confident firing that in a home defense situation than the shotgun, but I will be getting a pair of pistols and CCWs for both of us to fix that.

8/20/2009 10:58:00 PM

People would be more polite if everyone carried guns...

A vice president killed a guy in a duel for god's sake. Doesn't have anything to do with protesters, but still.

8/20/2009 11:15:39 PM

Quote :

"People would be more polite if everyone carried guns"

No it wouldn't. People are freaking crazy.

8/21/2009 12:07:50 AM

Millions of people all over the US have gotten CCW permits, and we aren't the Wild West yet. I think you underestimate your fellow Americans.

8/21/2009 8:05:11 AM

Quote :

"Look, we already say "No guns in courthouses, schools, or banks." I can live with that. I could also live with adding "and any place where you can see the fucking President"

In NC at least, you can take a gun into the bank as long as it isn't concealed.

8/21/2009 5:02:49 PM

how is pointing out that a vice president killed a man with a gun make a good case for everyone being more polite if everyone had a gun?

8/21/2009 5:13:48 PM

Quote :

"In NC at least, you can take a gun into the bank as long as it isn't concealed."

True enough, but you get my point. The idea of common-sense gun-free zones is broadly acceptable to people. I don't think it would cause any great uproar to extend them to Presidential events.

In fact, now that I think about it -- what the hell? I went to see George W. Bush give a speech outdoors, and I had to walk through two metal detectors and other inspections just to get in. If I'd been carrying a gun, I have little doubt they would have shot me. Hell, they almost shot me for asking if I could leave my backpack (which they had already inspected, but which was a little too large) at the check-in station to retrieve it later.

Why has security gotten so much more lax? And what bullshit noise would the gun people make if we tried to go back to the old standard of "don't take your gun to go see the fucking president?"

8/23/2009 2:15:37 PM

These people were outside of the "Obama Zone"

Nothing has changed, if they wanted to go into the protected zone around the president(which already exists) they wouldn't have been able to.

8/23/2009 2:19:40 PM

Thank you for clarifying that for me. I still stand by my other comments in this thread.

8/23/2009 2:24:14 PM

Quote :

"The idea of common-sense gun-free zones is broadly acceptable to people."

The problem is, unless these zones are enforced through the use of law enforcement, detection equipment, etc, their only effect is to remove firearms from the hands of those who intend to obey the law anyway, so they're really pointless.

8/23/2009 3:53:55 PM

^In a number of places, they are enforced through precisely those means. I had to go to court over a ticket last week, and I got scanned and re-scanned (because according to the guard, cigarettes trip the detectors now).

In most k-12 schools, there isn't that level of security, I admit. Of course, kids are too young to have handguns, so whether or not you include detection equipment you've got a "only outlaws have guns" situation.

8/23/2009 3:59:36 PM

8/25/2009 4:48:17 AM

so you're telling me people are crazy?

8/25/2009 8:31:06 AM

In hooksaw's world sign = gun.

8/25/2009 8:57:58 AM

Guns don't kill people, ideas kill people.

8/25/2009 12:10:25 PM

The black guy carrying the AR-15 rifle turns out to be a member of a radical church whose pastor preaches hate-filled sermons calling for the death of Obama, recalling those of muslim extremists. The guy calls the church "the best church in the world" and expressed irrational, paranoid views of the government in a radio interview excerpt.

Excerpts from the taped sermon start at 3:26.

So did he just bring a gun as a form of protest, or is he a whackjob testing the waters for something bigger? Suddenly, it may not be so harmless anymore.

[Edited on August 27, 2009 at 12:54 AM. Reason : .]

8/27/2009 12:43:06 AM

yeah, because the guy with the AR ever had any chance in Hell of actually being within range of Obama.

8/27/2009 2:34:34 AM

^You don't see the issue in:

-Person says his church is "the best church in the world"
-Pastor at church says "I hope Obama dies and goes to Hell tomorrow when he visits Phoenix".
-Person brings rifle to Obama town hall meeting.

People who aren't crazy nutbags don't bother to bring their rifles with them to town hall meetings.

8/27/2009 2:31:26 PM

Quote :

"The black guy carrying the AR-15 rifle turns out to be a member of a radical church whose pastor preaches hate-filled sermons calling for the death of Obama, recalling those of muslim extremists. The guy calls the church "the best church in the world" and expressed irrational, paranoid views of the government in a radio interview excerpt. "

OK

8/27/2009 2:35:42 PM

Which means what, exactly? That's it's cool to tote guns to a presidential town hall meeting after being preached that Obama needs to die because Obama attended a church led by an anti-semitic asshole? Or that this preaching is irrelevant because there are other people out there preaching crazy shit too?

8/27/2009 2:55:46 PM