3 pages of *yawn*

9/8/2009 7:48:07 AM

i didn't read this thread...what's going on?

9/8/2009 7:56:20 AM

a bunch of

RAWR RAWR RAWR
MY IDEAS ON HEALTH CARE ARE BETTER THAN YOURS
YOU'RE A DUMBASS FOR HAVING DIFFERENT BELIEFS FROM ME
RAWR RAWR RAWR

9/8/2009 8:14:10 AM

Quote :

"It's truly amazing to see the number of idiots letting their idiot flag fly in this thread. Keep up the good work!"

Signed ...

It's amazing to me to see such vapid generalized prejudice emanating from these supposed "hallowed halls of learning".

In reading the posts it seems that everyone that can't afford healthcare is either fat, lazy, stupid or did it to themselves. It's almost as if the TWW posters have met these people. I realize though that it's just the poster's own ignorant preconcieved biases.

Healthcare costs are the #1 reason for bankruptcies. Every industrialized country in the world, except for the US and South Africa, provides some basic level of healthcare for all of it's citizens. To me, that is the minimum achievment level before you should be allowed to call yourself a "civilized" nation. Anything else is just, well, barbaric.

"You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear"
The Rock Man - In the land of Point.

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 8:49 AM. Reason : *~<]Bo]

9/8/2009 8:37:11 AM

LACK of healthcare, damn it

let's go back to survival of the fittest. fixing messed up people is why we have so many health problems.

GO EVOLUTION!!

9/8/2009 8:46:22 AM

This thread is has more fail than a community college student's high school transcript.

9/8/2009 9:12:37 AM

Quote :

"except for the US and South Africa, provides some basic level of healthcare for all of it's citizens."

We have these new things called hospitals here and free clinics.

9/8/2009 9:14:45 AM

Quote :

"We have these new things called hospitals here and free clinics."

That's SOCIALISM. I don't know about you, but I am NOT FINE with paying MY TAXPAYER DOLLARS for some WELFARE QUEEN to waltz into a free clinic and get treatment. This isn't COMMUNIST RUSSIA. If you want stuff you have to WORK for it.

FUCK POOR PEOPLE.

9/8/2009 9:16:17 AM

Again, disallow employer-provided coverage and mandate that everyone have health insurance, then everyone could afford it. Government's job is to provide policies and laws that help correct the failings of the free market, not to add more inefficiency to the bureaucracy.

9/8/2009 9:33:18 AM

I fail to see how that allows for the poor and destitute to have health insurance.

"WE'VE MANDATED THAT YOU MUST HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE!"

"...but I can't afford it. I can barely afford to put food on the table."

"YOU MUST HAVE IT."

9/8/2009 9:41:57 AM

can I get an update to what's going on itt

9/8/2009 9:45:40 AM

^^ haven't read the thread, and don't think anyone should be required to buy health insurance...

but the poor and destitute are on Medicaid

9/8/2009 9:55:01 AM

i forget...why is "free" (taxpayer supported) BASIC healthcare such a bad thing?

those of us with healthcare ALREADY pay for those without through higher hospital costs (which translate into higher insurance preimums)...why not go ahead and make it official and spread out the cost a bit?

9/8/2009 10:13:58 AM

That's SOCIALISM you're talking about, you COMMUNIST!

9/8/2009 10:14:57 AM

because then everyone goes to the hospital for every little thing. Bad service terrible waits, and according to certain high horse riders ITT, they don't need health care and don't want to pay for anyone else's.


I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

9/8/2009 10:15:44 AM

the only way the drug companies have any incentive to dump billions into R&D is the possibility of getting most of that money back out...

do you want your wonder drugs or not? guess what scientists aren't gonna do it out of the goodness of their hearts, like doctors, you have to PAY them...

Quote :

"no one should just sit around and expect the government to take care of them but there are plenty of lazy fuckers who do it any way"

Quote :

"rabble rabble rabble, look at me. I have opinions. Let me share them."

Quote :

"I disagree. some fucking bum who does not work to improve his situation has no business getting the best medical treatment on my dime."

yep

Quote :

"Man, fucking kids with cancer. Fuck THOSE kids. I don't want to have to pay for their lazy asses to get treatment. Unlike them I have a JOB and I WORK for my shitty healthcare. If they want to get WORLD CLASS treatment like me for their childhood cancer they better FUCKING WORK. And I don't care if they were born into a family in poverty. I WORK HARD and they should too REGARDLESS. THERE IS NO EXCUSE. *sips diet coke*"

spurious, sweeping generalization, wild speculation, deliberate misrepresentation and distortion.

argumentative FAIL

9/8/2009 10:20:23 AM

That was kind of the point of the post lol.

9/8/2009 10:21:52 AM

i know, it was a good troll job

Quote :

"Healthcare costs are the #1 reason for bankruptcies. Every industrialized country in the world, except for the US and South Africa, provides some basic level of healthcare for all of it's citizens. To me, that is the minimum achievment level before you should be allowed to call yourself a "civilized" nation. Anything else is just, well, barbaric."

please, tell me, just how many new drugs and innovative practices has the rest of the world developed in the last 20 years exactly?

obviously you've never been subject to healthcare in another country either...

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 10:25 AM. Reason : s]

9/8/2009 10:23:23 AM

Quote :

"That's SOCIALISM you're talking about, you COMMUNIST! "

wait...which is it? am i a socialist or a communist? i'm okay with being called a socialist (though i'm not a fan of "true" socialism)...i assume you're being sarcastic in any case

Quote :

"because then everyone goes to the hospital for every little thing. Bad service terrible waits, and according to certain high horse riders ITT, they don't need health care and don't want to pay for anyone else's."

that's akin to the argument about legalizing pot...that if you legalize it, everyone will be smoking all the time and ZOMG the world's gonna end...i doubt that "free" healthcare will cause people to go to the doctor for EVERY little thing...in the long run, at least

many other countries seem capable of socializing healthcare without their entire population spending all day waiting at the doctor's office and so i'm pretty sure we can handle it, too...there would, of course, need to be a change in the way that medicine is handled in this country, but i tend to ignore those that claim it will be a disaster because the truth is that we don't know what will happen

part of socializing healthcare is a change of perception on the part of the population, a change that would hopefully lead to a more mature and adult population that realizes what warrants a doctor's visit and what doesn't...that won't be immediate because americans, as a whole, are a bunch of whiny pussies who bitch and moan about every little thing...eventually, though, i think it would be okay

9/8/2009 10:28:15 AM

^ (As far as I can tell God is merely a troll. So feel free to discount everything he says.)

9/8/2009 10:42:08 AM

^^ tell that to people who live in england

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.



[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM. Reason : i for one don't think our healthcare system is that bad. lol]

9/8/2009 10:42:57 AM

fuck off democrats

9/8/2009 10:56:50 AM

Quote :

"those of us with healthcare ALREADY pay for those without through higher hospital costs (which translate into higher insurance preimums)...why not go ahead and make it official and spread out the cost a bit? "

You know, there's another way to handle that.

Quote :

"Every industrialized country in the world, except for the US and South Africa, provides some basic level of healthcare for all of it's citizens."

We also pretty much leave the rest of the world in the dust, so maybe they would be well served to take some lessons from us.

Quote :

"part of socializing healthcare is a change of perception on the part of the population, a change that would hopefully lead to a more mature and adult population that realizes what warrants a doctor's visit and what doesn't"

Wait, so people go to the doctor all the time now when there are actual financial consequences, but that's going to stop due to pure altruism once the free-lunch utopia is handed out?

9/8/2009 11:01:02 AM

Sweden’s entire population has equal access to health care services. The Swedish health care system is government-funded and heavily decentralized. The health care system in Sweden is financed primarily through taxes levied by county councils and municipalities.

The role of central government is to establish principles and guidelines for care and to set the political agenda for health and medical care.

In Sweden the responsibility for providing health care is decentralized to the county councils and, in some cases, the municipalities. A county council is a political body whose representatives are elected by the public every four years on the same day as the national general election. According to the Swedish health and medical care policy, every county council must provide residents with good-quality health services and medical care and work toward promoting good health in the entire population.

Sweden is divided into 21 county councils. Around 90 percent of the Swedish county councils’ work involves health care but they are also involved in other areas, such as culture and infrastructure. The population in these 21 areas ranges from 60,000 to 1,900,000. The county councils have considerable leeway in deciding how care should be planned and delivered. This explains the wide regional variations.

Costs for health and medical care amount to approximately 9 percent of Sweden’s gross domestic product (GDP), a figure that has remained fairly stable since the early 1980s. Seventy-one percent of health care is funded through local taxation, and county councils have the right to collect income tax. The state finances the bulk of health care costs, with the patient paying a small nominal fee for examination.

When a physician declares a patient to be ill for whatever reason (by signing a certificate of illness/unfitness), the patient is paid a percentage of their normal daily wage from the second day. For the first 14 days, the employer is required to pay this wage, and after that the state pays the wage until the patient is declared fit. The state also reimburses patients for travel costs to and from the clinic or hospital.

Urgent cases are always prioritized and emergent cases are treated immediately. The national guarantee of care states that a patient should be able to get an appointment with a primary care physician within 3 days of contacting the clinic. If referred to a specialist by the GP, they should get an appointment within 14 days, and if treatment is deemed necessary by the specialist, it should be given within 30 days.

Man, fuck that socialist shit. I bet no one has any jo-

Unemployment: 6.4% (USA: 9.4%)

But people are probably in pover-

Population below poverty line: 6% (USA: 12.5%)

But the entire country is probably in deb-

Public Debt: 36.5% of GDP (USA: 81% of GDP)


And finally:

Life expectancy: 80.86 years (USA: 78.11 years)

9/8/2009 11:01:34 AM

Quote :

"We also pretty much leave the rest of the world in the dust,"

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/15/1198

Quote :

"WASHINGTON - The US health care system ranks last among other major rich countries for quality, access and efficiency, according to two studies released Tuesday by a health care think tank."

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/19/US-slipping-in-education-rankings/UPI-90221227104776/

Quote :

"WASHINGTON, Nov. 19 (UPI) -- The United States is no longer the world leader in secondary education, according to the rankings of an international organization."

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

Quote :

"Life Expectancy 50. United States"

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2129rank.html?countryCode=us&rankAnchorRow=#us

Quote :

"Unemployment rate (Lowest to Highest) 91. United States"

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 11:09 AM. Reason : ]

9/8/2009 11:07:28 AM

Have you talked to people that have used the "free" health care in other countries? In many of them if you use the free system you wait in the waiting room all day for a no show of a person with private insurance and an appointment. In other countries (UK, which obama wants us to model our system after), you won't get any sort of life saving surgery after 65 because they claim you won't live long enough to make it worth the cost. To get good care you will have to continue to carry private insurance, you'll just have to pay for all the bums and welfare queens to have health insurance through your taxes.

This is why I oppose socialized medicine. If you talk to anyone from a country with it they'll tell you they have supplemental insurance (or they're a bum). All socializing medicine will do is raise taxes. I'd love to see some very careful health care reform, but not socialized medicine.

9/8/2009 11:10:35 AM

But I know a metric where theDuke866 is right!

http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/07/worlds-fattest-countries-forbeslife-cx_ls_0208worldfat_2.html

9. United States

Take THAT, Europe!

9/8/2009 11:12:02 AM

Quote :

"Have you talked to people that have used the "free" health care in other countries? In many of them if you use the free system you wait in the waiting room all day for a no show of a person with private insurance and an appointment. In other countries (UK, which obama wants us to model our system after), you won't get any sort of life saving surgery after 65 because they claim you won't live long enough to make it worth the cost."

NONE OF THIS IS TRUE YOU FUCKING MORON STOP LISTENING TO GLENN BECK AND KILL YOURSELF.

9/8/2009 11:13:34 AM

^^^

You clearly haven't read any of the materials that are pervasive in this thread. There are lots of different ways to do government health care and all of them have pros and cons. Right now our country has every option under one roof, if you are on medicare you are in the UK, if you are a veteran you're in Canada, if you have employee health insurance you're Germany, and if you don't have any or pay for yourself you're Burma.

The admin cost of keeping up with 4 health care systems in one country is the problem, fix that and health care costs become nearly affordable to all...

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 11:16 AM. Reason : aa]

9/8/2009 11:14:18 AM

Quote :

"This thread is has more fail than a community college student's high school transcript."

and yet it is only marginally worse the a TSB thread


God just got tired of getting spanked in TSB so he brought his brand of pig-headedness to CC. He's the left's version of hooksaw.

9/8/2009 11:17:02 AM

hooksaw isn't THAT bad

9/8/2009 11:21:15 AM

hooksaw disintegrates into name calling and image posting too often. At least he stays in TSB though, and he's shown some signs of improvement.

9/8/2009 11:35:05 AM

^^^^^ I LISTEN TO PEOPLE FROM THOSE COUNTRIES! IMAGINE THAT!

Seriously, I would never want to get sick in the UK. You don't get second opinions, and if you end up with a lazy GP you are very screwed. Their version of the FDA runs wild (worse than the FDA) and will pull drug approvals when they think it's no longer necessary (aka a cheaper option has come out). They have discontinued THYROID MEDICATIONS. Made people switch to other kinds that are less effective so they can save money by offering fewer types of meds for the same condition.

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 11:36 AM. Reason : ^^]

9/8/2009 11:36:02 AM

^ Your card has been pulled when it comes to espousing an opinion on medical anything.

^^ yeah, he certainly has a bias, but his arguments aren't generally just totally absurd and ridiculous. his problem is much more what you mentioned, and getting butthurt something awful over things that anyone over the age of 5 shouldn't be bothered by.

9/8/2009 12:04:01 PM

Quote :

"obviously you've never been subject to healthcare in another country either..."

I have and I like it better than America

9/8/2009 7:18:25 PM

...

9/8/2009 7:27:08 PM

You know, if everyone had health care people wouldn't wait in emergency rooms for hours on end with very painful problems while people with the flu are going ahead.
Health care would make it possible for people to go to urgent care when the problem first arises and they don't have to go at 11 in the evening to the emergency room because they couldn't take it anymore. They wouldn't be flooding the emergency room so that 17 year old girls who play soccer for their high school and have a possible broken collar bone dont sit in the emergency room in pain on a school night until 5 am.

Just sayin.....

9/8/2009 7:27:54 PM

Nobody (in their right mind) is arguing that having health care is a bad thing. Its the how does it get paid for thats the trick. One extreme, you pay, and if you can't afford it, you're SOL. Other extreme, everyone gets it, and your (and everyone else's) taxes pay for it.

9/8/2009 9:06:30 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "those of us with healthcare ALREADY pay for those without through higher hospital costs (which translate into higher insurance preimums)...why not go ahead and make it official and spread out the cost a bit? " You know, there's another way to handle that."

Which is what? Let them die?

9/8/2009 9:12:56 PM

Quote :

"You know, if everyone had health care people wouldn't wait in emergency rooms for hours on end with very painful problems while people with the flu are going ahead. Health care would make it possible for people to go to urgent care when the problem first arises and they don't have to go at 11 in the evening to the emergency room because they couldn't take it anymore. They wouldn't be flooding the emergency room so that 17 year old girls who play soccer for their high school and have a possible broken collar bone dont sit in the emergency room in pain on a school night until 5 am."

1) flu addressed before major emergencies = fast track aspect to the ER: they clear out the ER by having a separate pathway for minor/quickly fixed issues.
2) EMTALA is a double-edged sword. It means that if homeless bob shows up at the ER in january because he says his foot is hurting, he must be assessed, and treated for any emergent condition discovered...even if his foot has been hurting for ten years, and what he was really after was a warm place for the night. You can provide the best of everything and all the healthcare in the world, but it doesn't fix laziness, entitlement issues, or manipulative behaviors in segments of the population.

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 9:16 PM. Reason : dff]

9/8/2009 9:16:01 PM

hey guys, did we forget about ending the war

talk about people dying for no reason..

9/8/2009 9:18:06 PM

Quote :

"Have you talked to people that have used the "free" health care in other countries? In many of them if you use the free system you wait in the waiting room all day for a no show of a person with private insurance and an appointment. In other countries (UK, which obama wants us to model our system after), you won't get any sort of life saving surgery after 65 because they claim you won't live long enough to make it worth the cost."

i gotta say, since i've EXPERIENCED the healthcare system of other countries, i'm gonna have to go with God on this one (you know, that whole experience over your bullshit opinion thing):

Quote :

"NONE OF THIS IS TRUE YOU FUCKING MORON STOP LISTENING TO GLENN BECK AND KILL YOURSELF."

Quote :

"Which is what? Let them die?"

yeah, i don't know what "other" way it would be handled...you can advocate a "no health insurance, no medical care" option, but that just creates a class of SICK destitute people...at least as it stands right now, the destitute aren't hacking away with TB on the street corners (in general, that is)...of course, the cost is that those of WITH health insurance have higher co-pays to offset the higher medical costs that our insurance companies pay for

you're going to pay one way or another, whether you like it it not...why not do it in a way that's at least organized?

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 9:33 PM. Reason : .]

9/8/2009 9:32:38 PM

9/10/2009 6:10:13 AM

The "Get off my phone you sick twisted freak" is a long running joke... and if you actually listen to glenn beck and not just take him out of context all the time you might know that.

9/10/2009 6:34:39 AM

I can see that the freak flags are still flying in here. Don't you people have better things to do, like getting that cyst removed?

9/10/2009 7:50:29 AM

Quote :

"But what we have also seen in these last months is the same partisan spectacle that only hardens the disdain many Americans have toward their own government. Instead of honest debate, we have seen scare tactics. Some have dug into unyielding ideological camps that offer no hope of compromise."

Quote :

"Everyone in this room knows what will happen if we do nothing. Our deficit will grow. More families will go bankrupt. More businesses will close. More Americans will lose their coverage when they are sick and need it most. And more will die as a result. We know these things to be true."

9/10/2009 7:55:25 AM

I'm writing David Price an e-mail today telling him that if the health care bill does not have a public option that anyone can opt-in to, he should not vote on it. If he does, he is not getting my vote in the next election.

And for those of you wondering where we could possibly find the money to spend on health care, I have one answer:



The size implies the huge fucking budget this turd has.

9/10/2009 8:26:02 AM

people who make bad choices and then can't solve them later should die. this is the answer of true liberty.

i'm full of wisdom.

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 9:00 AM. Reason : .]

9/10/2009 9:00:35 AM

^^We should rename the Department of Homeland Security to Department of Defense and rename the Department of Defense back to The War Department.

Just cause it's bad ass to have the title of US Secretary of War.

9/10/2009 9:16:40 AM

Didn't the Department of Defense used to be called the War Department?

9/11/2009 11:14:57 AM