Even as someone who has been covered, I can see reason for health insurance reform (this is not a comment on what that reform would entail). For the past 3 years my employer, a small business, had to change insurance frequently to keep getting cheap intro rates because it was the only way they could afford it. They basically told us we can do this annoyance, or we can cut your hours, or we can lay someone off (which I could see as a tempting option for a business during a recession). I never went to the doctor with the same insurance twice for all those years.

9/9/2009 10:03:28 PM

my point is that, by insinuating that people who are uninsured simply choose to go without insurance is rather dumb.

9/9/2009 10:03:34 PM

Quote :

"Great speech writing with these 2 lines, the first near the opening, the second near the closing. "I am not the first president to take up this cause, but I am determined to be the last" & "We did not come here to fear the future. We came here to shape it. President Obama seemed pretty bipartisan, he talked about malpractice reform which the right liked, he used a McCain idea that got Senator McCain to stand, clap, & give a thumbs up, & he told the left they need to be more open to all ideas that are means to the end of providing affordable health insurance to all even if those ideas come from the right. Saying he was open to ideas from both sides, but that he will not make time for those who have made the political calculation that it is better to kill this bill than to improve it was a very potent line too."

I just posted this on Golo, we should totally carry the tdub debate there too

9/9/2009 10:04:46 PM

yes, Luna, but pretending that a large chunk of those people aren't doing so is equally dumb

9/9/2009 10:06:44 PM

Quote :

"Maybe, just maybe, if people actually had to face the consequences of their actions, THEY MIGHT CHANGE THEIR ACTIONS!!! What a crazy idea."

yes, this is a brilliant idea! After these people die, they will change their behavior!!

9/9/2009 10:07:08 PM

Quote :

"Maybe, just maybe, if people actually had to face the consequences of their actions, THEY MIGHT CHANGE THEIR ACTIONS!!!"

No they won't. That's why they are stupid. But they don't deserve to be killed, which is what you animals want to do.

9/9/2009 10:07:50 PM

AIM TRANSMISSION

(me) 8:54pm: let me tell you what the drudge headline is gonna be in less than an hour... LIAR
(my friend) 8:54pm: yep
(me) 8:55pm: and they're gonna do a pull out piece on the BRAVE MAN WHO SPOKE OUT

--

http://drudgereport.com/

GAH, SO CLOSE

[Edited on September 9, 2009 at 10:09 PM. Reason : ]

9/9/2009 10:07:52 PM

they don't deserve to face the consequences of their actions? Tell me why.

Should a murderer be able to avoid jail time because it will suck?

Or, tell me why you don't think people will change their actions when they realize there are actual consequences? prove you aren't just a 2-bit troll

9/9/2009 10:09:28 PM

^ come back with that after you lose your nice little job and get slapped in the face with an incurable decease or some crazy shit right around the same time.

9/9/2009 10:09:58 PM

I'll be fine, because I will have bought COBRA coverage in the mean time.

9/9/2009 10:10:39 PM

good for 3 years, then what?

9/9/2009 10:11:39 PM

I'm not getting into this shit flinging about killing people etc.....but I'm just curious and honestly want to know, Let's assume that a 'public option' or some form of it or whatever, passes in order to prevent the death of poor folks who can't afford healthcare. So if I as a tax payer am walking down the street in a poor neighborhood, and see a group of obese kids buying video games and candy, don't I then have a duty to stop and make sure that the games and candy do not get sold them....and perhaps fine the person behind the counter if they do it anyway?

9/9/2009 10:18:48 PM

Quote :

"good for 3 years, then what?"

Well in fairness....are you saying that a person should be able to go through life without contributing anything? 3 years is a long time to not do anything...and how about the doctors who are treating you...? Should they have to do it just because it's the nice thing to do? I mean if we're going to do 'live by the moral clause' then the next time I'm flying somewhere, since I have a fear of flying and take medication, I think it's only fair that someone in first class gives up their seat to me so I can be more comfortable.....

9/9/2009 10:23:49 PM

Quote :

"I'll be fine, because I will have bought COBRA coverage in the mean time."

uhhh..... the COBRA coverage mandated by the gov't? Which wouldn't be available without direct government intrusion into the health insurance industry?

btw, COBRA ain't all it's cracked up to be when you realize that you have to pay the entire premium, with no job. If you have a nice cozy job that pays 90% of your premium, so you have, for example, $40 out-of-pocket costs per month, then have fun paying $400 for the same coverage when you're unemployed with no income. and that is, of course, assuming you find a nice new job before your COBRA runs out

9/9/2009 10:26:15 PM

I'll slip you a zanex how about that....

I'm down with a "Fat Tax"
The citizens arrest bit is out of bounds

9/9/2009 10:27:14 PM

The moral clause means not letting people die because of no health insurance in the richest nation in the world, the goddamn USA.

Not you losing money on fat kids buying candy, or your level of comfort on an airplane.

9/9/2009 10:27:47 PM

remember when you do find work your new insurance well likely not cover any expenses relating to your preexisting condition.

9/9/2009 10:30:01 PM

well no, I already take xanax, but I get very uncomfortable sitting in small space and the xanax puts me to sleep but it won't happen if I can't lay down somewhat comfortably so I'd really need that first class seat.....

as for the arrest, well sure it's excessive, but since the store owner is going to make the sale so that he can get the money, and since the kids aren't going to suddenly decide that they're doing wrong, and since each of these things independent of each other are not illegal, then how is such a thing going to be controlled? I will say this much, I think that if we go down this road there is going to be a lot more violent crimes because people don't take too kindly to stealing and being taken advantage of

9/9/2009 10:33:40 PM

Quote :

"The moral clause means not letting people die because of no health insurance in the richest nation in the world, the goddamn USA. Not you losing money on fat kids buying candy, or your level of comfort on an airplane."

Well we aren't going to be the richest for that long.....

And my point about the fat kids money thing was that a poor fat kid who is spending his money and becoming more poor and fat, just means that I'm going to become more poor too

9/9/2009 10:35:17 PM

Quote :

"I will say this much, I think that if we go down this road there is going to be a lot more violent crimes because people don't take too kindly to stealing and being taken advantage of"

what? who's being stolen from and taken advantage of?

[Edited on September 9, 2009 at 10:37 PM. Reason : n]

9/9/2009 10:36:50 PM

^^ Yes sweety, I know, that's why I said that it's not about you losing money on fat kids buying candy. It's about people dying, which didn't even register in your post. Shocker.

9/9/2009 10:38:15 PM

I just read that Senator John McCain on CNN called for Republican Congressman Wilson from South Carolina to "apologize immediately" for shouting out during the address to the joint session of congress to call the President a liar.

Congressman Wilson, way to take the Republicans off message immediately.

[Edited on September 9, 2009 at 10:45 PM. Reason : .]

9/9/2009 10:45:45 PM

^ you know the democrats would be doing the same thing too… shouting at the pres during his speech

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/09/obama-joint-address/

This happens to all the presidents doesn’t it?

[Edited on September 9, 2009 at 10:48 PM. Reason : ]

9/9/2009 10:47:26 PM

the dem running against wilson has just raised over ~$5k in the last 30 minutes or so online....

9/9/2009 10:49:07 PM

Quote :

"The moral clause means not letting people die because of no health insurance in the richest nation in the world, the goddamn USA."

I again ask you, isn't that the RISK you carry when you don't buy insurance? Why shouldn't people face consequences? But tell me, what is "moral" about demanding the services of another without paying for them? What is "moral" about making others pay for YOUR bad decisions?

9/9/2009 10:51:12 PM

^ Ok. It's like this. You assume that everyone thinks rationally. Like smart people. Smart people like me, and to some extent, you.

Some don't, because they are stupid/retarded/whatever. Maybe even because they willfully ignored the consequences and blew their food stamps on candy and heroin. Whatever. And when they don't, they get sick. To the point of death, even. And when that moment comes, you are going to look that person in the face and tell them to go crawl in the corner and die?

Brother, you are cold.

9/9/2009 10:55:52 PM

Quote :

"And my point about the fat kids money thing was that a poor fat kid who is spending his money and becoming more poor and fat, just means that I'm going to become more poor too"

You and I are already paying for 'fat kid'. In increased insurances rates, mediXXX, ect. Not only that but we are paying for him to go to the ER for things like influenza and sunburn. May as well give him some sort of coverage to take to a doc who can say "here is an expectorant, oh and you might want to lay of the Oreos KiD!" Plus give ourselves a fallback. Know?

9/9/2009 10:57:36 PM

no, cold is demanding my services without paying me, thus making my children starve to death. See, I can play the emotion card, too.

But please, explain why anyone should be able to demand the services of another without paying them? How is that "moral?"

Or, explain how letting stupid people continue to live thus perpetuating the cycle of stupidity and making more people suffer is "moral." or even a good idea

9/9/2009 10:57:48 PM

Quote :

"How dare you allow people to die, you heartless piece of shit. "

Question: Why is it that if I the random tax payer don't want to pay for someone else's health insurance (and remember, that's what we're doing, paying for insurance, not for care; leading a horse to water and all that jazz), I'm a heartless piece of shit allowing them to die?

What about the doctor who is refusing to treat without getting paid? What about the hospital staff who refuse to pool their money? What about the person's family who refuse to care for their own? What about all the rock stars who travel to Africa and show us video of kids living in squalor?

Why are these people not heartless pieces of shit allowing someone to die? Why is it that even though you aren't at the hospital every day, volunteering your time, that you aren't a heartless piece of shit?

When was the last time you decided to forgo purchasing a new car and instead donated 20k to a volunteer clinic?

Why is it that we as a country have decided we need the government to force us to do what is right?

9/9/2009 11:12:27 PM

So rather than make it difficult to for the people needing the free insurance because they're spending it on one of the very things that made them need the insurance in the first place, how about we let them have their cake AND EAT IT TO?
I'm well aware that we already pay for that fat kid when he passes out after dinner and his mom calls 911 and he goes to the E.R. where his life is saved.....but to condone the behavior by saying, 'you go ahead and spend your money on whatever you want, and don't worry about those hospital bills because now, you won't even have to call 911, you can just go to the hospital...even though since you clearly have SOME money, you have made a choice to NOT spend it on health insurance but rather on things that will cause you to suck up more of what you say you can't afford, you go ahead and do what you want because Lauren over here is working a 60 hour week so that not only can SHE be afforded health care, but you can too.'

OR we say, 'look kid, your first responsibility in life is to take care of yourself, and if you can't for WHATEVER REASON, then your next responsibility is to not do things that burden SOMEONE ELSE'....

is that REALLY so cold? Seriously?

9/9/2009 11:13:13 PM

YOU LIE!

9/9/2009 11:17:57 PM

Listen, lady.

I don't know how much you think a candy bar costs these days, but it isn't anywhere near the price of a hospital visit.

God, if only I hadn't bought that 99c Snickers bar I'd be able to pay for the ambulance that could save my life!

9/9/2009 11:19:18 PM

agentlion

yes, ruining your credit right now is the only real problem with not having healthcare, because anybody can walk into an emergency room, get whatever care they ask for, leave, and will never be held accountable for what they owe, should they decide not to pay, other than having ruined credit

9/9/2009 11:19:42 PM

they treat cancer and diabetes at the emergency room?

9/9/2009 11:33:20 PM

Joe Wilson ftw. he shouldn't have apologized for telling the truth though. Obama shouldn't get a free pass because he's the president. he's lying and everybody in Congress knows it.

9/9/2009 11:33:41 PM

BUSH LIED; PEOPLE DIED
OBAMA LIED; PEOPLE... SAW DOCTORS

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

9/9/2009 11:36:17 PM

^^And what is he lying about, genius?

9/9/2009 11:43:18 PM

1) that illegals won't be covered
2) that leprechauns don't exist

9/9/2009 11:48:32 PM

What is he not lying about, Sherlock?

9/9/2009 11:56:09 PM

Funny how Joe Wilson's web site is down for maintenance tonight...hmm

The Wikipedia article for him is locked too due to vandalism. Apparently he's already called the White House to apologize and released a public apology, but it looks like the damage is done and he's a marked man. Even his own party is calling him out...looks like there will be a hotly contested house seat in SC next year.

9/9/2009 11:56:42 PM

it's the apology that will cost him, not calling out Saint Barry.

9/9/2009 11:59:35 PM

i'm glad someone spoke up and called obama out on his lies.

9/10/2009 12:00:04 AM

PUT THE FLAG BACK ON TOP OF THE STATEHOUSE, TOO

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 12:02 AM. Reason : i don't care for mustard-based bbq sauce, however]

9/10/2009 12:01:18 AM

man, how bout the civility of those liberals and their well-known tolerance. Attacking people's webservers and posting nasty things on wikipedia (the horror! i know). Man, I love that kind of tolerance

9/10/2009 12:03:04 AM

i've often wondered if it's better to shove double-sided tape in my ears

or up my nose

i use my ass for talking and thinking, so that's a no-go

well... time for this hate train to pull into the station

9/10/2009 12:07:08 AM

^^people being less than civil to other people is bad regardless who is doing it, but we certainly should be holding public officials at a presidential address to a joint session of congress to a higher standard than anonymous online posters & wikipedia editors wouldn't you agree?

9/10/2009 12:14:23 AM

ha marko is up in arms about this...

9/10/2009 12:14:37 AM

^^ we should hold a president to the standard of not spouting utter bullshit that everyone knows is bullshit.

9/10/2009 12:25:33 AM

I don't think there is anything "not civil" about the outburst in question. But nice try, Supplanter. It's no different than the endless rounds of applause that the President's party gives his every ejaculation.

9/10/2009 12:26:59 AM

^^ what should the consequences be if it turns out not to be bullshit?

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 12:28 AM. Reason : ]

9/10/2009 12:28:28 AM