I'm glad I don't smoke because it seems like you guys that do are fairly pissed and I definitely don't need anything else to be pissed off about. I don't smoke, I'm not allergic, and I'm not smoke sensitive. But I guess it will be nice when I don't have to come home smelling like smoke. That's as far as my interest in this development goes.

1/2/2010 1:02:05 PM

yeah I don't smoke, I don't go out much in the cold months because I don't like smelling like an ashtray when I come home but it doesn't bother me to much. The worst thing though is having to wash my coat because its smells like smoke. I am guessing smokers can't smell their clothes but non smokers sure can and its a terrible smell.

1/2/2010 1:06:06 PM

was it passed to keep clothes from stinking?

thats all ive been hearing.

1/2/2010 1:07:10 PM

they should ban the wolfline then

1/2/2010 1:07:47 PM

febreeze lobbyists mut be pissed

1/2/2010 1:08:17 PM

Quote :

"That's as far as my interest in this development goes."

hmm more lazy ass american political reasoning

sweet

1/2/2010 1:08:20 PM

Okay, let me look at every single political issue, pick a side, and stand on a soap box.


You want me to pick a side? I'm glad that this is passed so I don't have to smell like complete fucking skank ass from the shit blown from your rancid pie whole and prune shriveled lungs! There, glad I wasn't lazy on this issue.

1/2/2010 1:13:39 PM

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 1:16 PM. Reason : damn you photobucket]

1/2/2010 1:14:38 PM

fail

1/2/2010 1:15:07 PM

How about deciding on some basic principles of governance and liberty and sticking by them regardless of whether you're affected or not?

1/2/2010 1:15:15 PM

But...he engages in novel high intellect pursuits.

1/2/2010 1:15:20 PM

1/2/2010 1:17:42 PM

^^^Because you and I both know that while that is ideal, not every situation can be looked at exactly the same. You can rest assured that I have my principles, and my principles happen to agree with the fact that non-smokers shouldn't have to endure people blowing smoke on them while having a drink. Personally, it's something I can deal with, but not everyone can. There are plenty of places for you to smoke that don't involve being enclosed with non-smokers.

1/2/2010 1:20:54 PM

Oh I agree

The difference here is that I don't agree with removing the owner's choice about whether or not his establishment allows smoking. You're the one that wants to use the strong arm of the state to enforce your preferences on privately owned establishments.

If there's such a huge market for non smokers then bars can do what they have been doing for a while (if they so choose): don't allow indoor smoking. Rudino's in north Raleigh has been that way for a while now.

1/2/2010 1:22:52 PM

Just make another TWW dance-off thread. That shit was epic and much more entertaining than this thread.

1/2/2010 1:28:24 PM

Quote :

"The difference here is that I don't agree with removing the owner's choice about whether or not his establishment allows smoking."

The cool thing is....THEY ARE FREE TO CLOSE THEIR DOORS AND MOVE TO ANOTHER STATE. See how easy that was? They are profiting from the planning (and probably some luck) of people that came before them that made Raleigh what it is. They can always move to North Dakota, Montana, or the back woods of North Carolina if they don't like profiting from the benefits of doing business in a town like Raleigh. The fact that formerly smoking establishments aren't shutting down en masse tells me this isn't a problem for business owners.

Quote :

"You're the one that wants to use the strong arm of the state to enforce your preferences on privately owned establishments"

This gets brought up all the time and it's still relevant, they already have to submit to a host of other regulations regarding food prep and service. Are you going to go full Libertarian on us and say they shouldn't have to submit to that either?

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 1:31 PM. Reason : .]

1/2/2010 1:28:32 PM

Quote :

"Not if you live in Raleigh, where plenty of non-smoking bars and restaurants have existed for quite a while. "

What nonsmoking bars are there in raleigh?

Quote :

"How about deciding on some basic principles of governance and liberty and sticking by them regardless of whether you're affected or not? "

We tried that, but a few assholes abused the system, and we are where we are today.

Quote :

"If there's such a huge market for non smokers then bars can do what they have been doing for a while (if they so choose): don't allow indoor smoking."

The problem is that nicotine is extremely addictive, so these people are obviously going to be more aggressive with getting their drug habit accepted than non smokers. The “free market of ideas” is broken in this case.

1/2/2010 1:29:36 PM

a google search would have told you
http://wake.digitalhealthdepartment.com/smokefree.cfm

theyre all smoke free now but there were like 30 or so before

(ive had to look it up before for a friend)

1/2/2010 1:31:36 PM

1/2/2010 1:34:53 PM

I work for the organization that lobbied to get this law passed. I can tell you that the general consensus from restaurant owners in the state is that they support the ban.

you can also still smoke outside and on terraces. The ban only affects establishments that prepare and serve food. If any bars want to stop serving food altogether, they can go ahead and have smoking once again.

1/2/2010 1:36:00 PM

Wow, 5% are smoke free, three years ago it was probably 2%. So, 95% of establishments allow smoking when 20% of adults (someone correct that number) not to mention 0% of children actually smoke?

Hilarious.

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 1:36 PM. Reason : .]

1/2/2010 1:36:27 PM

^^^^ there’s about a dozen bars i frequent with my friends around raleigh, and none of them are non-smoking. We never went looking for smoking bars, but we never stumbled across non-smoking ones either.

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 1:36 PM. Reason : ]

1/2/2010 1:36:41 PM

Except I think that bars are required to serve food lest they want to become a private club.

1/2/2010 1:37:27 PM

Quote :

"Just make another TWW dance-off thread. That shit was epic and much more entertaining than this thread."

I am not your monkey I make epic threads on my own schedule

Quote :

"The cool thing is....THEY ARE FREE TO CLOSE THEIR DOORS AND MOVE TO ANOTHER STATE. See how easy that was?"

Oh yeah moving an entire fucking bar, that sounds a lot easier than you moving yourself to a non-smoking establishment

And if they don't exist, you should ask yourself why there's not a market for it instead of trying to pass stupid regulations that interfere with the liberty of not only private citizens, but also privately owned establishments

I would LOL pretty fucking hard if alcohol got banned, as dangerous (health-wise AND societially) as it is. You fucking idiots come in here and rail about other drugs when your drug of choice is unbelievably unhealthy and poisonous. Better hope your precious habit continues to get propped up and treated as exempt by intellectually dishonest shitheads in Washington, or you may end up driven underground and criminalized like countless other people you don't give a fuck about. The best part is that based on all the stupid shit you idiots talk in here, you should be campaigning against alcohol as well.

Quote :

"prep and service. Are you going to go full Libertarian on us and say they shouldn't have to submit to that either?"

Do our food prep regulations also ban unhealthy foods? Should they? Or do they just make sure that the food you're getting is prepared in a safe way?

Why the fuck do I waste my time engaging with slobbering fucking retards like you? Mysteries...

Helpful reminder that this is an argument between drug users. Some drug users think other drug users need to keep their filthy habit to themselves. The irony is completely lost on them.

1/2/2010 1:37:41 PM

Quote :

"The ban only affects establishments that prepare and serve food. If any bars want to stop serving food altogether, they can go ahead and have smoking once again."

I wonder what the reasoning behind that is?

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 1:38 PM. Reason : a]

1/2/2010 1:38:21 PM

I'm going to start an undergroud public bar that you can smoke in.

1/2/2010 1:38:40 PM

mitch's was

wasnt flying saucer?

1/2/2010 1:38:52 PM

^^^ it does kind of go against the idea it’s for “health” reasons.


[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 1:39 PM. Reason : ]

1/2/2010 1:39:03 PM

Quote :

"mention 0% of children actually smoke?"

you do realize this is North Carolina right? There are kids smoking all over the place, there isn't a legal smoking age, just a legal age to buy cigarettes.

1/2/2010 1:40:30 PM

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_kills_more_people_cigarettes_or_alcohol

1/2/2010 1:41:06 PM

^^^ that was my first thought.

perhaps that was a small compromise that was reached?

1/2/2010 1:41:12 PM

Bars serve alcohol, 0% of children drink, and MOST college student's can't either.

Lets ban alcohol for the second prohibition.

1/2/2010 1:41:33 PM

Quote :

"you do realize this is North Carolina right? There are kids smoking all over the place, there isn't a legal smoking age, just a legal age to buy cigarettes."

Yeah yeah, I started to put 'rofl' in quotes but I figured some redneck would point out NCs redneckiness.

Let's assume the percentages is really really low, close enough to 0.


^ Don't be an idiot.

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 1:44 PM. Reason : .]

1/2/2010 1:44:03 PM

Quote :

"How about deciding on some basic principles of governance and liberty and sticking by them regardless of whether you're affected or not?"

B-b-b-but this a democracy, remember? ....a culture contest.
51% of people are ALWAYS right, regardless of any silly constitutional principles....

1/2/2010 1:44:32 PM

Quote :

"Let's assume the percentages is really really low, close enough to 0."

but it's not. Do you not remember middle school and high school?

Yeah I mean I guess you could say the precentage of kids under the age of 10 is close to 0.

Quote :

"Yeah yeah, I started to put 'rofl' in quotes but I figured some redneck would point out NCs redneckiness."

haha that is the first time I've been called a redneck. I didn't realize it was only rednecks that smoke cigarettes underage.

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 1:51 PM. Reason : ]

1/2/2010 1:48:53 PM

^^^Don't be the fucking idiot, Ms. Betty got creamed by a drunk driver. You fucking sadist.

1/2/2010 1:49:00 PM

^ I bet that drunk driver smoked too!

1/2/2010 1:50:23 PM

Quote :

"Oh yeah moving an entire fucking bar, that sounds a lot easier than you moving yourself to a non-smoking establishment"

Don't be ridiculous. A bar and it's equipment isn't very difficult at all to move. However, forcing countless of the non smoking majority to move to avoid cancer dancing with you people until the end of time...hmmm.

Quote :

"And if they don't exist, you should ask yourself why there's not a market for it instead of trying to pass stupid regulations that interfere with the liberty of not only private citizens, but also privately owned establishments"

Prisoners dilemma most likely. That and capitalism in many situations takes forever.

Quote :

"I would LOL pretty fucking hard if alcohol got banned, as dangerous (health-wise AND societially) as it is. You fucking idiots come in here and rail about other drugs when your drug of choice is unbelievably unhealthy and poisonous."

Alcohol in excess may effect other people. Cigarettes in moderation do effect other people. I can't believe someone like you is even bringing this point up. I guess you really are just trolling, I didn't think you were this intellectually bankrupt.

Quote :

"Why the fuck do I waste my time engaging with slobbering fucking retards like you? "

Because you really aren't so intellectually superior as you'd have us to believe? Because you're basically just a fuck bag? Generally a pussy? Pick one or all three, I don't give a hell.

1/2/2010 1:51:05 PM

Quote :

"^^^Don't be the fucking idiot, Ms. Betty got creamed by a drunk driver. You fucking sadist."

Look, I can't help it if you and McFauxEnlightened can't see the difference between cigs and alcohol in a public setting.

1/2/2010 1:52:22 PM

I'm going to start burning books now.

1/2/2010 1:52:55 PM

Quote :

"The ban only affects establishments that prepare and serve food. If any bars want to stop serving food altogether, they can go ahead and have smoking once again."

This is wrong. As long as they have a permit to serve alcohol they cannot allow smoking indoors. The only exceptions are cigar bars and non-profit member-owned clubs (ie, country clubs).

http://tobaccopreventionandcontrol.ncdhhs.gov/smokefreenc/faq.htm

And it's a public health issue because of secondhand smoke. Me drinking alcohol at a bar does not affect other peoples' health. This doesn't take away my right to do unhealthy things to myself like drink -- it takes away other peoples' ability to give me lung cancer without my consent.

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 1:55 PM. Reason : link]

1/2/2010 1:53:40 PM

^ uhhh, pretty sure you're wrong. if they serve food, no smoking. if it's just a bar (and they have a 'membership') then you can smoke there. For example: Landmark.

or at least that's my understanding.

as a casual observer, McDanger is getting dismantled by this n00b here



step your game up McDanger, or I'll be forced to go find something on netflix to watch

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 1:56 PM. Reason : .]

1/2/2010 1:54:05 PM

lol now drinking doesn't affect other people

boy oh boy fucking lol

here's a clue for the clueless: any drug that affects your behavior affects other people. Are you going to seriously argue that alcohol doesn't have negative affects on society, including death due to health problems and drunk actions?

Quote :

"as a casual observer, McDanger is getting dismantled by this n00b here"

fucking can it already i've got enough posters swinging from my dick at the moment i dont need a kiljadn too

Quote :

"Cigarettes in moderation do effect other people."

No, it may. Just like driving on 440 every day may affect your lung health.

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 1:58 PM. Reason : .]

1/2/2010 1:55:48 PM

I just can't wait for medical marijuana to be legalized in NC. I wonder if that will be covered in the law as well. I mean this is my medicine that is prescribed to me, are you saying I can't take my medicine in this bar?

1/2/2010 1:57:19 PM

Well second hand marijuana smoke may get other people stoned depending on the amount lol

1/2/2010 1:58:31 PM

lol...yeah I guess I can see how that would piss some people off, they have the right to go out to a bar and not have the urge to eat everything in sight.

1/2/2010 1:59:50 PM

Let's go ahead and ban alcohol though. I'm sick of getting badgered by drunk people in bars. Some of them seem to be sensitive to alcohol and their first beer gets them so wound up that I can't enjoy eating my Cuban. I have the right to eat my Cuban sandwich without being mentally assaulted by that heathen.

1/2/2010 1:59:58 PM

Drunk and out of control people are a public menace and we have people in here arguing that it's in principle different than tobacco lol

I guess they're right though, seeing as how smoking a cigarette won't cause you to slam your car into innocent people

1/2/2010 2:01:24 PM

Quote :

"it takes away other peoples' ability to give me lung cancer without my consent."

Of course, you do realize that when you choose to go somewhere that allows smoking, you are consenting to any harm from the smoke -- you know, just like when you step into a boxing ring, you are consenting to any harm from the punches. Like others have said, if you don't consent to being around 2nd-hand smoke, then don't go anywhere that people are smoking.

1/2/2010 2:02:14 PM

Quote :

"^ uhhh, pretty sure you're wrong. if they serve food, no smoking. if it's just a bar (and they have a 'membership') then you can smoke there. For example: Landmark. or at least that's my understanding."

Nah, check the link I added

Quote :

"here's a clue for the clueless: any drug that affects your behavior affects other people. Are you going to seriously argue that alcohol doesn't have negative affects on society, including death due to health problems and drunk actions?"

Maybe we need a law against drunk driving then? Hmm

1/2/2010 2:03:36 PM