Quote :

"The US military is working with the Dominican Republic to set up temporary relief operations bases right now. So what private organization should we be sending down for search and rescue? Blackwater? And people are concerned about sinking money in Haiti...how about not sinking it in unaccountable contractors and instead using the good organizations we have like the National Guard? "

It’s foolish and narrowminded to diminish the efforts of one “side” (not that the gov. is in opposition to private efforts) over the other.

There is TONS of private money being spent on Haiti, as well as public money, and the 2 forces work best when they work together. The gov. has the resources via. military spending to quickly move troops and supplies, the private sector can quickly assemble supplies and specialized labor. It’s times like this when the world really gets to see what the US’s wealth and power are all about.

Our military is certainly helping out a lot, but so is the Red Cross and even Wyclef’s group (Yele).

1/16/2010 1:12:44 PM

[Edited on January 16, 2010 at 1:15 PM. Reason : ]

1/16/2010 1:14:20 PM

Wyclef has long been the savior of that nation.

1/16/2010 1:14:33 PM

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/01/15/dont-give-money-to-haiti/

Quote :

"But as The Smoking Gun shows, Yele is not the soundest of charitable institutions: it has managed only one tax filing in its 12-year existence, and it has a suspicious habit of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on paying either Wyclef Jean personally or paying companies where he’s a controlling shareholder, or paying his recording-studio expenses. If you want to be certain that your donation will be well spent, you might be a bit worried that, for instance, Yele is going to be receiving 20% of the proceeds of the telethon."

An interesting column that makes some good points as to whether you should donate to Haiti (or at least to whom).

1/16/2010 1:23:10 PM

Quote :

"not to mention most of the wealthiest, best nations to live in have these "destruction policies""

They and the U.S. do. And the argument suggests that even they could be more peaceful societies were it not for them doing so. But you cannot make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

1/16/2010 4:31:54 PM

Quote :

"Our military is certainly helping out a lot, but so is the Red Cross and even Wyclef’s group (Yele)."

I'm not talking about medical/food-related groups. I should have made that clear. Eventually you need heavy equipment, and our military is the only real option in this hemisphere for something that needs this much debris removal and helicopters and whatnot.

It's sad that I'm so used to someone popping up and saying "privatize everything!!!11" here that I feel the need to defend unprovoked.

But some people have already said we should spend zero dollars on aiding them, and I just want them to think about the consequences of that. You can send a ton of food, but it doesn't help the thousands still trapped.

We should also invoke temporary protected status for Haiti like we have for El Salvador, Somalia, and Sundan in the past and present. Let them in.

[Edited on January 16, 2010 at 5:35 PM. Reason : .]

1/16/2010 5:33:07 PM

agree on the temporary protected status and think we should also fast-track adoptions that are in-process.

1/16/2010 5:41:16 PM

I heard earlier today that on this coming Tuesday all proceeds from business at any of the Empire Restaurants will be going to relief aid in Haiti. I'm not sure of all the restaurants that is, but I know it includes Neomode, Sitti, and Gravy. I don't work there, I just love Sitti.

Think I'll check out Gravey, haven't eaten there yet.

1/16/2010 10:26:53 PM

I donated some money today to Red Cross Haiti relief. I'm going to donate more in the coming days.

1/17/2010 5:34:34 AM

"The United States could kick in with an immigration policy that focuses less on killing sick old men and more on getting all the Haitians to Brooklyn, where they were meant to be."

1/17/2010 11:28:49 AM

I think we should take everything we own and give them to people from haiti to let them know we mean business.

Next, we should all trade in our cars for baby panda bears born in middle Africa.


Also, we should give up all human rights so that Obama can jerk off to our naked body scans if we walk into a public school.


Yay democrats, we had 2 years of high fiving and gay sex!!!!

1/17/2010 9:07:36 PM

z

[Edited on January 17, 2010 at 9:11 PM. Reason : z]

1/17/2010 9:08:22 PM

what the hell is rallydurham talking about?

1/17/2010 9:33:26 PM

If the United Nations functioned as it was chartered, the United States wouldn't have to provide nearly as much aid as it does for humanitarian and other needs. There are other entities in this world that could do much more, too--yet these same entities are quick to criticize the United States for just about anything.

1/18/2010 9:59:24 AM

not just about anything just things that lead to widespread death and destruction

1/18/2010 10:44:15 AM

Others will always try to knock down the USA. We can either give them all the finger and validate their actions, or we can continue to help others out and make them look foolish.

1/18/2010 10:51:05 AM

^^ You mean the very things for which we, the United States, always provide relief?

[Edited on January 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM. Reason : .]

1/18/2010 10:52:21 AM

msnbc.com has a lot of pics. this one is telling:

1/18/2010 11:07:31 AM

so i came across this:

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9D8C6BO0.htm

and then i learned more about how Haiti had to pay reparations after winning independence to end a multi-country embargo placed on it. so it took on loans at high interest rates from many banks housed in the countries that enforced the embargo. it finished paying those loans in 1947.

its one thing to be a Viking, go in somewhere and say "gimme dat", and take all their shit.

but to be a f***ing parasite is whole other goddamned thing

1/19/2010 6:21:07 PM

1/19/2010 10:04:52 PM

Quote :

"Do you think that cruise ships should continue to dock at Haiti's Labadee peninsula, so that passengers can "frolic" and "buy trinkets"? To me, the answer is obviously "yes," if the passengers don't mind. It's possible passengers don't WANT to go, but if that is what is advertised, and passengers buy a ticket, I say "go." Because the alternative is to say, "Haiti is devestated. Let's boycott Haiti, to make sure the economic damage is as great as possible. Let's deny local workers the only chance they have to make some money, so as to make our rich white American selves feel moral." But I expect that most people disagree with me. Right?"

http://mungowitzend.blogspot.com/2010/01/quiz-on-economics.html
Mike Munger, he ran for governor, right?

1/20/2010 10:59:57 AM

I agree with Munger. If the whole point is that you shouldn't be able to have a good time within a hundred miles of a terrible disaster/tragedy, why stop at a hundred miles? How about a million miles? No one should be able to have fun anywhere as long as their is suffering going on somewhere.

Haiti only stands to benefit from tourism at this point. The original Yahoo article has a post at the bottom, which says that north Haiti will bear a lot of the burden of the disaster, and having tourists stimulate that economy will allow them to deal with that.

Quote :

"Still, Royal Caribbean, which recently raised eyebrows when it announced that it's organizing a "cougar cruise" for older single women"

Oh nice.

1/20/2010 11:18:31 AM

H. Res 1021: Expressing condolences to and solidarity with the people of Haiti in the
aftermath of the devastating earthquake of January 12, 2010.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:hr1021ih.txt.pdf

If the only thing contained within this resolution was "condolences," that would be great. Unfortunately, it contains a whole lot more than that.

Quote :

"expresses support for the recovery and long-term reconstruction needs of Haiti;"

Quote :

"to continue to make available to United States agencies, nongovernmental organizations, private voluntary organizations, regional institutions, and United Nations agencies the resources necessary to confront the effects and consequences of this natural disaster"

Quote :

"to undertake comprehensive assessments of the long-term needs for recovery and development in Haiti, ensure transparency and accountability, and lead coordination efforts with international actors who share in the goal of a better future for Haiti and are willing to support the costs of meeting those needs; and"

The bill passed with a vote of 411-1.

1/22/2010 12:32:56 PM

i think we owe Haiti some money, we have a pretty terrible track record there

1/22/2010 12:38:00 PM

We owe a lot of people money. Going further into debt isn't going to solve that problem.

1/22/2010 12:41:12 PM

d357r0y3r, HR1021 doesn't appear to do anything different from what we've already been doing for Haiti before the earthquake.

1/22/2010 3:16:29 PM

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2010/01/world/haiti.360/index.html?hpt=C1

360 camera. crazyness

1/24/2010 6:16:52 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/greene.haiti.american.aid/index.html?hpt=C1

Quote :

"There was a phrase, or so we have long been told, that was heard in occupied Europe during World War II. It was often said as a whisper, the story goes. It had the sound of a prayer. The words were so simple, but to people who were feeling utterly abandoned and who needed help, those words meant so much. Four words: "The Americans are coming.""

1/24/2010 6:25:36 PM

That's pretty powerful. Thanks.

1/24/2010 7:47:45 PM

The Americans are Coming

Quote :

"(CNN) -- There was a phrase, or so we have long been told, that was heard in occupied Europe during World War II. It was often said as a whisper, the story goes. It had the sound of a prayer. The words were so simple, but to people who were feeling utterly abandoned and who needed help, those words meant so much. Four words: "The Americans are coming." Sometimes we forget about the power of those words, and about how, for so long, they defined the real meaning of what this country, at its best, could be. Sometimes, in the midst of all the bad news, in the midst of the mistakes this country inevitably makes, we lose sight of how much the people of the United States are counted on by those in need. Which is why the humanitarian efforts in Haiti this month, in the wake of the earthquake, have been a reminder of who we are when we strive to find our finest selves. The relief efforts have been an international undertaking; the heartache on the streets of Haiti has summoned compassionate and heroic assistance from around the globe, all of it deserving of praise and gratitude. But the United States has been at the forefront, as it has so often seemed to be in so many places when hope was in short supply. It is almost beyond imagining to think what has been in the terrified minds of the citizens of Haiti who have been without water, without food, without a way to rescue their trapped and dying children. When there is nothing left to depend on, when all is desolation and despair, what must the hungry and the hurt wish for as they look into the empty distance?"

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/greene.haiti.american.aid/index.html

honestly, really worth the read. really struck a cord with me.

1/24/2010 10:41:50 PM

BOAST BOAST BOAST

1/24/2010 10:48:08 PM

yes, because that's exactly the point i was trying to make by posting the article

1/24/2010 10:54:22 PM

That's the point of the article you posted.

I have no idea what your point was.

1/24/2010 10:59:05 PM

Once upon a time we were known for helping people who needed help. Maybe we boasted about it later, maybe we had reason to, and maybe not. But we were known for it, whereas now we're known for ignoring the world and invading countries on a whim and for sowing discord and acting like we're the only place that matters.

I would like to change that. We can't just do it with Haiti. We'll probably botch a lot of follow-up opportunities to reseal that name for ourselves. But I'd like to wish we wouldn't, because I think there are tangible benefits to most of the human race, and plenty in it for us, if we didn't.

But whatever, let's keep hoarding aid money as though it doesn't buy us anything.

1/25/2010 12:59:05 AM

Short of permanent occupation, we cannot save Haiti.

1/25/2010 2:59:21 AM

It's funny how some define "help." Humanitarian aid following a disaster is readily accepted by most--but freeing a people from the grip of a brutal dictator is often described as "aggressive interventionism" by some.

The death toll in Haiti may top 200,000--and some earlier reports indicated it could even reach half a million. It is a tragedy on an epic scale. But the despot Saddam Hussein may have killed a million people during his reign of terror.

Quote :

"Stalin killed 20 million of his own people, historians have concluded. Even on a proportional basis, his crimes far surpass Mr. Hussein's, but figures of a million dead Iraqis, in war and through terror, may not be far from the mark, in a country of 22 million people."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/26/weekinreview/the-world-how-many-people-has-hussein-killed.html

Just something to think about.

1/25/2010 3:15:45 AM

^^It's a relief to know that. I'm calling to cancel my donation tomorrow.

Do you wonder why people disagree with Libertarian policies when they entail things like "Let private charity deal with it!" and then "They're beyond hope unless we invade them, which libertarian policies aren't all about, so fuck 'em?"

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 3:17 AM. Reason : ^^]

1/25/2010 3:16:20 AM

the first country that had an airplane with supplies and rescue teams on the ground at PAP was China... from the other side of the world they beat us with supplies. we were also not the first country to have a hospital established.

Quote :

"but freeing a people from the grip of a brutal dictator is often described as "aggressive interventionism" by some. "

i would like to point out that the US supported the Duvaliers in Haiti which were pretty brutal dictators

1/25/2010 9:02:03 AM

Quote :

"d357r0y3r, HR1021 doesn't appear to do anything different from what we've already been doing for Haiti before the earthquake."

Yeah, I agree. I disapprove of all foreign aid. The issue is not whether Haiti or any other nation is worthy of our financial support. I think in many cases, they are. I just don't it's the proper role of government to get the bureaucracy involved and force the taxpayer to hand over some charity. If people understand that the government is not going to do anything to help, they'll be more inclined to donate money to worthy causes, and maybe if people didn't lose a third of their income to taxes, they'd have more money to donate.

Quote :

"i would like to point out that the US supported the Duvaliers in Haiti which were pretty brutal dictators"

Exactly. It's not like we just go around dethroning any dictator that we see. We pick and choose. We'll support a dictator in one country, and then overthrow a dictator in another. It's well known that the politicians here think they know what's best for everyone in the United States, but they also think they know what's best for everyone in the world.

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 9:08 AM. Reason : ]

1/25/2010 9:07:30 AM

Quote :

"I disapprove of all foreign aid. The issue is not whether Haiti or any other nation is worthy of our financial support. I think in many cases, they are. I just don't it's the proper role of government to get the bureaucracy involved and force the taxpayer to hand over some charity. If people understand that the government is not going to do anything to help, they'll be more inclined to donate money to worthy causes, and maybe if people didn't lose a third of their income to taxes, they'd have more money to donate."

This is not a logical position when you consider that the gov. is often the best equipped to respond quickly, due to the military. It’s not like there are civilian organizations that can mobilize and transport heavy equipment, helicopters, reconnoissance gear, etc. at a moment’s notice.

1/25/2010 9:30:49 AM

Quote :

"This is not a logical position when you consider that the gov. is often the best equipped to respond quickly, due to the military. It’s not like there are civilian organizations that can mobilize and transport heavy equipment, helicopters, reconnoissance gear, etc. at a moment’s notice."

If the government didn't tax us like crazy and build a giant military, what do you think would happen? Would people everywhere just throw up their hands and say "well, I guess we're not going to help anyone"? International humanitarian groups should be more than capable of mobilizing and dealing with disasters around the world. I agree that military equipment is useful for humanitarian efforts, but we're not just using the equipment. We're sending marines over there to "keep the peace" with guns.

1/25/2010 9:41:16 AM

Quote :

"Yeah, I agree. I disapprove of all foreign aid. The issue is not whether Haiti or any other nation is worthy of our financial support. I think in many cases, they are. I just don't it's the proper role of government to get the bureaucracy involved and force the taxpayer to hand over some charity. If people understand that the government is not going to do anything to help, they'll be more inclined to donate money to worthy causes, and maybe if people didn't lose a third of their income to taxes, they'd have more money to donate."

If it bothers you that much, think of it as a form of PR or advertising budget. It's a tiny piece of our national budget, but it buys us a lot in terms of diplomatic good will.

Quote :

"If the government didn't tax us like crazy and build a giant military, what do you think would happen? Would people everywhere just throw up their hands and say "well, I guess we're not going to help anyone"? International humanitarian groups should be more than capable of mobilizing and dealing with disasters around the world. I agree that military equipment is useful for humanitarian efforts, but we're not just using the equipment. We're sending marines over there to "keep the peace" with guns."

Yes, humanitarian groups would have been able to get the job eventually, but they would have taken much longer to get there and at the cost of tens of thousands of more lives and the possible collapse of what little semblance of cohesion is left in Haitian society.

Even if our military was much smaller, by our proximity to Haiti, our nation is still in the best position amongst the major powers to provide immediate aid and support to that nation. I dispute the fact that we're not using our military equipment over there either: it's a mobile military ATC system that is keeping the Haitian airport running, American military cargo aircraft and helicopters bringing aid and construction equipment, and American warships provided necessary medical facilities for a nation whose health infrastructure has literally collapsed.

As for American soldiers and marines, they're not simply walking around with guns but are establishing and manning distribution centers. Also, the whole "keep the peace" thing is crucial in this sort of situation where all government institutions and UN forces were dealt such a severe blow: the presence of American forces helps maintain order until the Haitian government and the UN can regroup its own forces. Once a society falls into complete anarchy, it is much harder to restore order than to maintain some semblance of order like we are right now.

If you don't care at all about international humanitarian aid, then think of this purely from a selfish, American standpoint: if Haiti completely collapses and its citizens decide to flee, most likely, they'll hop on ships and start flooding into Florida. Better to try and fix Haiti before the situation gets to that point.

1/25/2010 10:33:23 AM

Quote :

"Yeah, I agree. I disapprove of all foreign aid. The issue is not whether Haiti or any other nation is worthy of our financial support. I think in many cases, they are. I just don't it's the proper role of government to get the bureaucracy involved and force the taxpayer to hand over some charity. If people understand that the government is not going to do anything to help, they'll be more inclined to donate money to worthy causes, and maybe if people didn't lose a third of their income to taxes, they'd have more money to donate."

except that forgets that our hand has already been in the cookie jar. we had our fun taking advantage of haiti, now its time for some of colin powell's "you break it, you buy it" policy

1/25/2010 5:29:14 PM

Quote :

"THE TOLL 150,000: Latest estimate of the death toll, from the Haitian Health Ministry. The European Union and the Pan American Health Organization, which are coordinating the health-sector response, have estimated the quake killed 200,000 people. 194,000: Number of injured 134: Estimated number of people rescued by international search teams since the quake THE EFFECT 9 million: Population of Haiti 3 million: Estimated number of people affected by the quake 1 million: Estimated number of displaced people 800,000 to 1 million: People who need temporary shelter 235,000: People who have left Port-au-Prince using free transportation provided by the government. The number who left by private means is undetermined. At least 50: Aftershocks of magnitude 4.5 or higher that have hit Haiti since the January 12 quake THE CHILDREN 300,000: Children younger than 2 who need nutritional support 90: Percentage of schools in Port-au-Prince that have been destroyed 263: Haitian orphans who have been evacuated THE RESPONSE IN DOLLARS $1.12 billion: International aid pledges $783 million: Funds received as of Tuesday $317 million: U.S. assistance as of Monday THE RESPONSE IN MANPOWER 17,000: U.S. military personnel in and around Haiti 8 million: Meals the World Food Programme has delivered to nearly 400,000 people 300: Aid distribution sites that are up and running 130 to 150: Flights arriving every day at the single-runway Port-au-Prince airport with aid EFFECT ON FOREIGNERS 12,000: U.N. workers in the country at the time of the quake 53: U.N. workers still missing At least 82: U.N. workers dead 27: U.N. workers injured or hospitalized 11,500: Americans and family members who have been evacuated 4,800: Americans unaccounted for"

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/26/haiti.by.the.numbers/index.html?hpt=T1

1/26/2010 10:43:11 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/29/haiti.puerto.rico.doctors/index.html?hpt=T2

Quote :

"A humanitarian mission to aid Haitian earthquake victims turned into a major embarrassment in Puerto Rico on Friday as pictures emerged of doctors drinking, mugging for cameras and brandishing firearms amid the victims' suffering."

I do not get it...

What is the embarrassment???
These doctors are risking their life, volunteering their time to save people, and foregoing a certain opportunity cost by not being at their clinic making money. The place has been ravaged with death, despair, and destruction everywhere. So what, the doctors had a few drinks and brandished a few firearms to relieve some stress. What does the media or the liberal agenda expect these doctors to work 24/7 or that they should be sitting in a chair staring at a wall crying? These are not robots. Let them have a few drinks they deserve it; i would do the same. If this were a "drunk doctors stumbling down the street", "intoxicated physician caught amputating a boy's leg," or "wasted professionals caught shooting guns at homeless Haitian refugees;" I could maybe understand.

1/29/2010 9:10:52 PM

Quote :

"PORT-AU-PRINCE, HAITI -- In the hours and days after the city crumpled and the enfeebled government of Haiti disappeared from public view, a remarkable thing happened here: The police showed up for work. A force previously dominated by thugs has transformed itself, according to international advisers, U.N. police officers and Haitians. In Port-au-Prince today, there is something almost heroic about an officer trying to direct traffic on Grand Rue Dessalines. "I have seen the people wave at us and say, 'Good job!' which gives the men a strong feeling in their hearts," said Lavaud Belimaire, a police inspector who heads an 80-officer corps in the commercial heart of the city, where looters have methodically stripped warehouses of their goods. "

Kind of cool I guess.

Maybe a stronger country will emerge from this.

[Edited on January 29, 2010 at 9:56 PM. Reason : http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/29/AR2010012904144.html]

1/29/2010 9:56:28 PM

One can only hope. It's very likely that the ones doing this job now are the ones that actually became police officers for the right reason to begin with. Hopefully it won't revert back to its original form once things are back to some semblance of normality.

1/29/2010 9:59:57 PM

Quote :

"I'm not suggesting that the future gains will, in moral terms, outweigh the massive loss of life and destruction, but still the future Haiti might have a higher growth rate and a higher level of gdp per capita. Here's how. In the previous Haitian political equilibrium, the major interest groups were five or six wealthy families and also the drug trade, plus of course the government officials themselves. None had much to gain from market-oriented, competitive economic development. The wealthy families would have lost their quasi-monopolies and the drug runners would have been pushed out or lost some rents. The wealthy families are not that wealthy and their economic projects are relatively small, at least by the standards of the outside world. Enter the rebuilding of Haiti. Contract money will be everywhere. From the World Bank, from the U.S., from the IADB, even from the DR. That contract money will be significant, relative to the financial influence of either the main families or the drug trade. There exists (ha!) a new equilibrium. The government is still corrupt, but it is ruled by the desire to take a cut on the contracts. Ten or twenty percent on all those contracts will be more money than either the families or the drug runners can muster. The new government will want to bring in as many of these contracts as possible and it will (maybe) bypass the old interest groups. Alternatively, the old interest groups will capture the rents on these contracts but will be bought off to allow further growth and openness. Arguably the new regime in Haiti will operate much like the federal states in Mexico. Corrupt and a mess, but oriented toward a certain kind of progress, if only to increase the returns from corruption. You will see this in how the port of Port-Au-Prince is treated. Previously the rate of corruption was so high that the port was hardly used. If the port becomes a true open gateway into Haiti (if only to maximize contracts and returns from corruption), that means this scenario is coming true. The surviving Haitians, in time, might be much better off. "

http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/01/how-haiti-could-be-better-off.html

1/30/2010 10:36:14 AM

1947

that's when they got done paying off the reparations they owed the froggies for their own freedom

1947

fothermuck!

here's to a new and improved Haiti

1/31/2010 4:37:36 AM

^ Which had absolutely nothing to do with their current impoverished situation. Had that money not been paid in reparations, it would have just been stolen like everything else not nailed down.

1/31/2010 10:59:18 AM