that doesn't make it racist. jesus, you are dense

2/21/2010 2:38:31 PM

Do you think glaad is talking about race when they talk about diversity?

2/21/2010 2:49:42 PM

do you think asking loaded questions helps your argument?

2/21/2010 2:52:20 PM

Don't get mad because answering my question would ruin your thesis.

2/21/2010 2:53:54 PM

Quote :

"that doesn't make it racist. jesus, you are dense "

I was just trying to suit your belief that it was about race by using terminology to reflect this, then you accuse me of being racist, when I was doing what you wanted me to do.

2/21/2010 2:55:05 PM

I did NOT accuse you of being racist. you accused me of being racist by saying I would raqther call them niggers.

2/21/2010 2:56:24 PM

Quote :

"I would raqther call them niggers."

- aaronburro

2/21/2010 2:57:54 PM

typical liberal. can't actually support your bullshit ideas, so you have to resort to calling someone a racist and using selective quotes

2/21/2010 2:58:44 PM

^ Isn't that the exact same thing that you did earlier in the thread? Did you not cherry pick 'Diversity policy' from FuhCtious' post while ignoring the rest of the post that specifically addressed and refuted your argument?

2/21/2010 5:29:09 PM

i didn't use anything in that person's post to attempt to slander him, though

2/21/2010 5:49:03 PM

yeah, I was referring to the use of selective quotes, not the rest

2/21/2010 6:01:31 PM

considering that I made the point before he made his post, it's apt. he came in and provided an example of the very thing I was talking about. there's a difference.

2/21/2010 6:12:27 PM

For page 3:

Quote :

"Second, the argument about whether this is race based or not is unnecessary. You can argue about the correlation of SES to race all day, but the target is those with a low SES, because of the inherent problems systemically reported in educating children from those environments. If race correlates strongly to that, fine, but race is not the same kind of indicator of performance in schools, when controlled for SES. However, economic status IS a good indicator, when controlled for race. I basically agree with your point that race and SES are often strongly correlated, but disagree about the importance of that fact."

2/21/2010 8:44:03 PM

Quote :

"moron: I guess we'd need a definite list of which schools are going to be most negatively affected by the new policy. Then from there, we can look at case-by-case solutions for those schools. If the richer (or cracker) parents don't want the poor (is negroid acceptable to you in place of this, burro?) kids around, that's fine, the poor kids shouldn't really live their life depending on the grace of the rest of society anyway. They can find solutions that work in the system, and those solutions do exist."

What are those solutions?

Also how do you propose we handle declining property values and business failures associated with high poverty schools?

2/22/2010 1:54:08 AM

Quote :

"I was a product of Wake County schools, and I always thought the concept of busing and ensuring diversity was great."

Bussing is the worst idea ever. Not only is uneconomical for schools but is also a burden for the students being bussed.

When i was in high school i was forced to attend East Mecklenburg all the way into Charlotte, eventhough Butler and Providence were
substantially closer. Hell, I pretty much can see fucking providence if I choose to commute up Sardis road instead of Monroe Rd.

Nonetheless I had to be at the bus stop 20 mintues earlier, then when i was older had to drive 5 miles further in order to "add diversity" to
East Meck. Stupid idea. If minority parents are upset that they believe the white conspiracy is "holding back" their predominantly black
schools than why do they not move to an area where their kids can go to the majority white schools.

2/22/2010 11:23:54 AM

5 miles? 5 WHOLE miles?

2/22/2010 11:51:29 AM

In rush hour congested traffic this equal a 30-40 minute drive home from lacrosse practice versus 10-15 minutes from the other two jackass. Considering that i practically drive by one high school and can be at the other in about 10 mintues by driving another way; this is a big deal. No Excuse.

2/22/2010 3:12:24 PM

I lived in Wendell and went to school in downtown Raleigh. I personally didn't think the bus ride or drive was that big a deal when I was in middle and high school, and I played sports in both as well. With no traffic at all the drive is about 35 minutes, usually double that with traffic. The bus ride would be longer with stops. I generally had to get on the bus before sunrise every day. But I guess it's all about your personal level of comfort.

2/22/2010 6:32:53 PM

^ you probably CHOOSE (or your parents choose) to send you to that school. I was not given the choice. The problem is the town of matthews gave land to the Charlotte-Mecklenburg school board to build a school (butler) and you had Providence right next door, yet the board created some obscure school zone in which most of the students living in matthews did not even go to Butler. Since CMS could not dare build a new school to support the expanding population of the suburbs which would then be mostly white.

2/22/2010 6:57:03 PM

Bunch of first world problems in this thread.

2/22/2010 8:04:12 PM

blacks and hispanics are ten times more likely to be on reduced price or free lunch programs in Wake County, so the difference between race-based busing and socio-economic based busing is minute. Even the NAACP has admitted to this in publications, so I don't understand why so many people have trouble admitting as much in this thread.



http://www.naacpldf.org/content/pdf/voluntary/Race-Neutral_Alternatives_fact_sheet.pdf

2/22/2010 10:22:38 PM

^from your link “Income and race cannot stand as proxies for one another in school integration policies,”

2/22/2010 10:32:50 PM

The article explains why the relative success in Wake County is because of demographics and not because of policy. They point at Mecklenburg county as an example of how socioeconomic busing policies fail to support progress of black students in segregated schools. They claim that the busing in Wake County is only successful because it is basically a form of racial busing, since there are so few poor white kids in the county and such a large percentage of the county is above the poverty line.

2/22/2010 10:48:05 PM

I did not read the article, so if I'm incorrect on my assumptions, correct me.

I think a big part of why Wake is successful is because of demographics. There are enough people who are doing well that when you move the populations who aren't to other locations, it actually evens out the load on the system. In a county that has a higher overall poverty rate, moving students around would not significantly affect the levels of Free/Reduced lunch.

Even now, parts of Wake are dealing with schools that have very high rates of Free/Reduced, even though they have stated a goal to keep it below a certain rate. Of course, without some sort of policy, those rates would be even higher.

2/23/2010 2:22:54 AM

eleusis's article appears to be pointing out that obvious: SES busing generally will not replicate the results of race-based busing because SES and race are not the same thing. Basically, the article is coming at the issue from that standpoint that racially diverse schools (schools that mirror the general population) are the goal, and then it looks at school districts' ability to have racially diverse schools without taking into account race (kinda tricky!).

According to the article, Wake County has come the closest to replicating the results of race-based busing with SES because we are demographically unique. Compared to other school districts, we have very few white students receiving free and reduced priced lunches, and very few black and Latino students in the high-income category. So when we bus based on SES, we are effectively busing based on race. According to his report from the NAACP, this is desirable.

The only thing that confuses me is that they are comparing Wake County to other school districts that haven't fully tried to achieve diversity, socioeconomic or otherwise. I mean, the article admits that Charlotte implemented a neighborhood-based, limited-choice student assignment plan in 2002. Basically, they have neighborhood schools, but if you want, you can opt out of one school and pick another school from a limited number of options near you. The choice part is supposed to let low-income students in low-income neighborhoods get access to a better school than their neighborhood school if they want to...but surprise, surprise people rarely pick that option and when they do, it's late in the game and they've already been at a disadvantaged school for quite possibly the most important years of their education (elementary).

The article also seems to be suggesting that race is still a good indicator of "success" in school. Yes, because it's closely tied to socioeconomic status but also other more intangible things: general know-how, level of parental achievement in school, exposure to more standard English in the home, number of extended relatives who graduate college, availability of books in the home, understanding the ins-and-outs of the system and how to work them, etc... I mean, if you grow up in a middle-class home but you're only one generation out from generational poverty, you're likely going to be at disadvantage despite the fact that you don't eat a free or reduced priced lunch.

[Edited on February 23, 2010 at 11:16 AM. Reason : It's not like 50k/year magically opens doors all over the place.]

2/23/2010 11:09:51 AM

did a black kid beat up HUR in highschool or something? why does he always get so mad about his white bread upbringing in these threads?

2/23/2010 2:48:44 PM

i don't know if this has been said already because i read the first and last pages only but those of you who think all schools in the county have the same amount of money to spend are misinformed so quit talking out your butts


closed school board meeting tonight, btw

[Edited on February 23, 2010 at 5:37 PM. Reason : ]

2/23/2010 5:32:34 PM

Quote :

"did a black kid beat up HUR in highschool or something? why does he always get so mad about his white bread upbringing in these threads?"

I honestly do not give a fuck if Provident and Butler were the darkest of the dark schools. My issue was solely on being "bussed" to a school further away solely as a part of some liberals brain child plan to "diversify" the school systems. My point is simple. Students (excluding special needs or magnet programs) should be given priority to attend the school closest to them.

2/23/2010 6:00:51 PM

i agree, families should be able to send their children to the schools they live closest too. what do you think about all these white families moving to the magnet neighborhoods and pushing the minorities out??

2/23/2010 6:37:40 PM

Quote :

"My issue was solely on being "bussed" to a school further away solely as a part of some liberals brain child plan to "diversify" the school systems. My point is simple. Students (excluding special needs or magnet programs) should be given priority to attend the school closest to them."

I think that my big issue is that eliminating busing for diversity will not remedy this problem. Diversity based busing in Wake County accounts for very little of the total busing program. Tedesco has floated the idea of dividing the country into 20 attendance zones, hardly a new model but it would fit with their neighborhood schools idea. Even with this new realignment of the county to a more "neighborhood focused" assignment plan, the fact remains that there are school aged population shifts that will occur. There will still be families being reassigned to different schools every few years and in many cases they will not be attending the school closest to home.

And lets be honest, a 5 mile drive to school can hardly be considered a hardship, even if there was a school closer to your home. A 30-40 minute drive home after Lacrosse practice may have been less than ideal but you elected to do that. How long would the commute have been when school let out?

2/23/2010 6:55:10 PM

Quote :

"what do you think about all these white families moving to the magnet neighborhoods and pushing the minorities out??"

Does not compute....

What world do you live in, in which white families actively displace minority households....

Quote :

"ets be honest, a 5 mile drive to school can hardly be considered a hardship, even if there was a school closer to your home. A 30-40 minute drive home after Lacrosse practice may have been less than ideal but you elected to do that. How long would the commute have been when school let out?"

Still probably 20 minutes given the plentiful stop lights. Sure driving 5 miles on country roads is nothing. Either way u are missing the point. Had my family lived in Ballyntine, I assure you they would not have been picked to be bussed. Arguably the lower middle and working class families that were picked to be "bussed" would not have been had they been in the more affluent part of town.


[Edited on February 23, 2010 at 7:29 PM. Reason : l]

2/23/2010 7:25:18 PM

i live in wake county, where white families move to neighborhoods of magnet schools and the minorities get bussed out

2/23/2010 7:26:20 PM

well wake county is the opposite of Mecklenburg, where most of the magnet from my memory were in the poorer areas to encourage white students to come and to provide access to lower income families.

The issue should not be a race one. Last time I checked schools do not ban or hold back minorities from attending, and legally i do not think they can discriminate via teh budget. Although NCLB helps schools discriminate based on performance which can be linked to socio-economic factors that unfavorably are biased to disadvantaged groups.

[Edited on February 23, 2010 at 7:32 PM. Reason : l]

2/23/2010 7:30:17 PM

that's how it begins, then the upper crust move in to assure their children can get into the school without having to apply for magnet status

2/23/2010 7:31:40 PM

NO the "upper crust" just says fuck it and sends their kids to private schools when they do not get their way.

2/23/2010 8:37:14 PM

Quote :

"What world do you live in, in which white families actively displace minority households...."

google "gentrification" then take a drive through raleigh

pwnage

2/23/2010 9:36:41 PM

Quote :

"Still probably 20 minutes given the plentiful stop lights."

This is nothing. I have students who commute for over 2 hours each way to school. They have something worth bitching about and don't.

2/24/2010 12:47:15 AM

just as an FYI, private school does not always equal better education. in many cases, it's really the opposite, because of the far lower levels of funding. in certain cases, like cary academy and cardinal gibbons, it's true, but the majority of private schools are small operations that just get by.

2/24/2010 1:25:41 AM

Quote :

" This is nothing. I have students who commute for over 2 hours each way to school. They have something worth bitching about and don't. "

You Still Do NOT FUCKING GET IT. There are two schools within a 5-10 minutes of my house. I went to a school that was 20 (if i catch the lights good) - 30 minutes away or even longer if caught in rush hour. This is not a story of living in bumfuck NC and having to drive 40 mintues to the nearest high school or my parents enrolling me in some special magnet program that requires me to drive 2 hours everyday. There is absolutly no reason that my neighborhood should have been in some GERRYMANDERED school zone that had me going to East Meck, PERIOD NOT DEBATEABLE. Obviously the school district finally woke up to smell the coffee (which some of you seem to have not) as the school zones were corrected and my sister went to Butler which was the nearby high school.

[Edited on February 24, 2010 at 8:10 AM. Reason : a]

2/24/2010 8:08:56 AM

Board did not reach a decision regarding Del Burns yesterday and will meet again March 2

2/24/2010 8:44:41 AM

so the money strapped school board wants to spend $100k because they got their feelings hurt and can't work with someone for a couple months? fuck that.

2/24/2010 2:58:00 PM

Quote :

"My issue was solely on being "bussed" to a school further away solely as a part of some liberals brain child plan to "diversify" the school systems."

We get it. The question is, are the benefits of diversifying schools greater than the costs of minor inconveniences (or even an aggregate of many minor inconveniences)?

I would argue that the benefits of forcing kids into socialization with people from other races and classes are substantial. I honestly think they enriched my own experience and made me more able to function in the world today, and that I was not unique in this regard.

My guess is that you would argue that the benefits are not substantial, and you should probably stick to that instead of bitching about your five mile drive, which is such a minor inconvenience that virtually any benefit from bussing would outweigh it.

2/24/2010 3:27:00 PM

Quote :

"This is not a story of living in bumfuck NC and having to drive 40 mintues to the nearest high school or my parents enrolling me in some special magnet program that requires me to drive 2 hours everyday."

That's not the case with my students either We live in a city the size of Cary and students come in from over two hours away because it is their assigned school. And there are no school buses here and you're not allowed to get a driver's license until you have graduated from high school, so their only options are bikes, the train, the city bus, or walking.

Like I said before

Quote :

"FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS"

I have very little sympathy for students that get their panties in a twist because it takes 30 minutes to get to school.

2/24/2010 9:49:03 PM

This thread is fucking hilarious.

I think we can all agree that people living in black neighborhoods do not deserve quality education, though.

2/24/2010 11:13:30 PM

exactly. them danged negroes

2/24/2010 11:19:24 PM

CLUSTER FUDGE.

3/1/2010 12:08:00 PM

board meeting tomorrow morning @ 10am
http://www.wral.com/news/education/story/7142318/

3/1/2010 10:52:36 PM

Today is the day that everything gets screwed up

3/2/2010 8:46:24 AM

Quote :

"I have very little sympathy for students that get their panties in a twist because it takes 30 minutes to get to school."

AMEN... the real world you gonna have to drive like an hour to get to work might as well get used to it.

3/2/2010 10:09:16 AM

Yeah for real! 5 year olds need to get over it and ride a bus for 2+ hours a day. Welcome to the real world!

3/2/2010 4:11:28 PM