I'm not tipping on top of a delivery fee. That's like asking me to tip the waitress again when gratuity has already been included on the bill.

If you don't make enough money selling pizzas because of this, then find another line of work or a pizza place that doesn't charge a delivery fee.

3/11/2010 12:43:59 PM

Because nobody reads the 49th post


my personal belief is this:

cost of the pizza should equal the cost of material and labor to make the pizza plus some profit margin of the firms choice

cost of the delivery charge should equal cost of material (gas) and labor (the driver) to deliver an order plus some profit margin of the firms choice

in this world if the firm charges a delivery charge then I don't tip. if there is no delivery charge then I tip.

personally if a firm charges a delivery charge then its up to the driver to recoup his costs and make money from the firm not the customer because your services are being charged to the customer.

3/11/2010 12:49:03 PM

Quote :

"my personal belief is this: cost of the pizza should equal the cost of material and labor to make the pizza plus some profit margin of the firms choice"

Right.

Quote :

"cost of the delivery charge should equal cost of material (gas) and labor (the driver) to deliver an order plus some profit margin of the firms choice"

Right.

Quote :

"in this world if the firm charges a delivery charge then I don't tip. if there is no delivery charge then I tip."

So you don't tip waiters either? You do know that food delivery drivers works for tips the same way waiters do, don't you?

Quote :

"personally if a firm charges a delivery charge then its up to the driver to recoup his costs and make money from the firm not the customer because your services are being charged to the customer."

No. The food delivery workers usually earn less than minimum wage -- just like waiters. The tips are a fucking part of their pay. In the exact same way that waiters "make money from the firm" and the customers, food deliver drivers "make money from the firm" and the customers.

So either you didn't know that they earn less than minimum wage, or you're a douche that doesn't even tip waiters because you can get away with it. Which is it?

Quote :

"I'm not tipping on top of a delivery fee. That's like asking me to tip the waitress again when gratuity has already been included on the bill."

No it's not. The delivery fee goes to cover the restaurant's costs (cost of material (gas) and labor (the driver) to deliver,) for the service of delivery. It is not a tip. It is really not that hard to understand. A more accurate analogy would be that "tipping on top of a delivery fee is like asking me to tip the waitress when the bar tab has been included on the bill."

The delivery fee is not a gratuity.

Quote :

"If you don't make enough money selling pizzas because of this, then find another line of work or a pizza place that doesn't charge a delivery fee."

Like the one I described here?

Quote :

"What if they: 1) took away the deliver fee... (what is it? $1.50?) 2) increased their prices by about 75 cents per item or so (whatever the average would be for the # of items ordered for delivery vs. bought in-store) 3) offered a discount on in-store orders Wouldn't that sort of be the same thing? Either way, they have to reimburse for the drivers' gas -- the gas is something the store buys and uses, not the driver. This gas money is not a part of the driver's pay... if you think it is, you can't do math. So, either way, you're still paying more for delivery than for pick-up. What's the big deal, then, with paying a delivery fee?"

Don't you get it? Even if they don't charge a deliver fee, one of two things is happening.
1) You are still paying more for delivered food than one would for in-store food, because the prices for delivery are higher than the prices for in-store, through "discounts".
2) People ordering in-store are paying for the delivery gas and labor through high prices -- (and who wants to pay food delivery prices for something you ordered in-store?...which is why you hardly ever see this.)

3/11/2010 1:02:46 PM

Quote :

"Right. For gas. Do you think they magically snap their fingers and the food gets delivered? Why shouldn't you have to pay for the gas? -- that's part of the restaurant's cost."

Great, so call that and whatever the driver should get in as a "Delivery Fee".

Don't get mad at the consumer because the business' titling of a fee screws you over. No one is saying "it should be the same price for delivery as carry-out", what people are saying is that if someone is charging you a "delivery fee" that should be the fee for having a pizza delivered, no questions asked.

And as far as comparing delivery drivers to waiters, the second a delivery driver begins taking my order, refilling my drink, brings me multiple courses, and then cleans my table, they can expect a tip outside of the delivery fee. Otherwise (since your gas is paid for by your employer), the service rendered to me is no different than when the person at Hardee's carries my tray of food to my table. You're getting fucked by your employer. Not the consumer.

[Edited on March 11, 2010 at 2:10 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2010 2:09:20 PM

Entitled people who don't work for a living ITT

3/11/2010 4:57:40 PM

tip threads never fail!

3/11/2010 5:38:58 PM

Quote :

"Right. For gas."

Quote :

"(cost of material (gas) and labor (the driver) to deliver,) "

so... it DOES go to the driver. case closed.

3/11/2010 8:24:05 PM

The point of delivering your pizza is to make more than it cost to get it to you.

3/11/2010 8:47:05 PM

^not neccessarily. in some industries it can be an enabling offering which grows your client base (like pizza) some firms chalk it up as a cost of doing business (and would typically charge accordingly) or they would add on a fee for only those customers who take advantage of the service (a delivery charge). Thinking that charging the fee in order to make money is a naive way of looking at it.

Quote :

"So you don't tip waiters either? You do know that food delivery drivers works for tips the same way waiters do, don't you?"

I think Stein answered this question pretty well. The tip in real restaurants is in return for some service that I value as a patron of the firm, tipping is part of the compensation structure of the restaurant and thus is known by both parties (server and customer) before they begin the meal. If i'm charged a service charge by a restaurant I consider it as a payment for the service I recieved, and thus relieves me of any obligation to tip the server.

Quote :

"No. The food delivery workers usually earn less than minimum wage -- just like waiters. The tips are a fucking part of their pay. In the exact same way that waiters "make money from the firm" and the customers, food deliver drivers "make money from the firm" and the customers. So either you didn't know that they earn less than minimum wage, or you're a douche that doesn't even tip waiters because you can get away with it. Which is it?"

I hate to tell you but I don't care how you as a server are compensated. If the firm is charging a delivery fee I consider that to be the charge for delivery. If a restaurant charged a three dollar per person fee for being seated at a table, called it a service fee, would you still leave a tip?

[Edited on March 11, 2010 at 9:32 PM. Reason : ]

3/11/2010 9:28:58 PM

would it kill you cheap motherfuckers to kick the driver a few bucks? jesus christ

Quote :

"If i'm charged a service charge by a restaurant I consider it as a payment for the service I recieved, and thus relieves me of any obligation to tip the server."

where do i ship the big pointy hat

[Edited on March 11, 2010 at 10:00 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2010 10:00:07 PM

so tuff

3/11/2010 10:04:36 PM

it's a couple of fucking bucks, how poor are you

3/11/2010 10:10:15 PM

so does that mean on a $150 order, if you're charged a 1.50 delivery charge you feel not obligated to tip further?

3/11/2010 10:16:06 PM

the difference between a $15 order and a $150 order is negligible on the part of the driver. It's not like he had to take multiple trips.

If they buried the cost into the cost of the pizza, I would gladly tip the driver. The mere fact that they refer to it as a "delivery fee" is why most people have an issue with tipping on top of it. It's not called a "restaurant inconvenience fee", it's called a fucking "delivery fee". That implies that it's a fee to get the pizza delivered to you as opposed to me picking it up at the store. I don't tip on pizzas I pick up myself, so why should I tip on charge of a delivery fee. Let me be the judge of how much your delivery was actually worth, and you might get more money out of me.

3/11/2010 10:26:28 PM

epic amount of rawr rawr in this thread

if you don't like it, go somewhere else

or better yet, learn how to make it yourself.

3/11/2010 10:27:30 PM

Quote :

"so... it DOES go to the driver. case closed."

What are you talking about? It doesn't go to the driver.

[Edited on March 11, 2010 at 10:34 PM. Reason : (some seriously fucking dumb and/or cheap mother-fuckers in this thread.....)]

3/11/2010 10:31:48 PM

I was not born here. My family is foreign. Yet somehow everyone in my family has figured out that in this country some services require a tip. Not because you are paying for some service, but because businesses in this country structure their pay based on well known conventions such as tipping. Don't say that a delivery driver is getting screwed by his boss. You know damn well that you are choosing to not tip when you know that a tip is expected.

I don't think any pizza delivery person takes the job assuming that he will receive no tips. If you think that way, you are absolutely wrong. Pick up your own damn pizza.

3/11/2010 10:36:44 PM

why should I pick up my own pizza? they charge $x.xx for delivery, and I choose to pay for that service.

3/11/2010 10:54:40 PM

Do you not understand what I just said? It's a very well known convention. The delivery driver takes the job with expectation of tips. You are just a cheap asshole.

The same principle applies to tipping in restaurants. No one at a restaurant forces you to tip, yet you do it anyway. If you don't want tip, don't go out. So if you don't want to tip a delivery person, don't order a pizza for delivery. Same fucking principle. Some of you are just fucking cheap. That's all. Don't cover it up with an excuse about a delivery charge. You are just plain cheap.

3/11/2010 11:03:57 PM

^^and you KNOW that the driver is not getting tipped with your dumbass delivery charge so you CHOOSE to be a cheap asshole. There's not a single person in this thread that can say they don't tip because the driver gets the delivery charge because it's been made perfectly clear that that is NOT what happens. Tip or don't tip but don't sit there and flat out lie. Admit that you don't tip because you're poor, a cheap motherfucker, or just a good old-fashioned asshole.

3/11/2010 11:07:11 PM

how do i know that the delivery charge doesn't go to the driver exactly??

3/11/2010 11:14:41 PM

because i have delivered pizzas and i'm telling you it does not.

there, your entire theory just came crashing down. but you probably won't change your ways.

3/11/2010 11:21:58 PM

Quote :

"the difference between a $15 order and a $150 order is negligible on the part of the driver."

the difference between ordering an appetizer at applebees and a filet mignon at the palm is negligible on the part of the waiter but they both do their best to make sure your food goes from point A to point B all for you and noone else, thats what the tip is for

if any of you assholes are under the impression that you don't have to tip and you can prove it because you get very good service still should probably not watch the security tape of them making your food. don't think they don't make notes on every single customer.

3/11/2010 11:26:13 PM

^^did you make real minimum wage or waiter minimum wage?

3/11/2010 11:46:45 PM

Quote :

"Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?Is there some sort of Godwin's Law on how long before a restaurant thread will devolve into an argument about tipping?"

3/12/2010 2:23:27 AM

Quote :

"The delivery driver takes the job with expectation of tips."

ha. before the mandatory delivery fees I would always slip him a buck or two. (and here comes more of you assholes saying a $2.00 tip on a $10.00 pizza isn't enough, even if it is 20%)

Quote :

"^^and you KNOW that the driver is not getting tipped with your dumbass delivery charge so you CHOOSE to be a cheap asshole. "

listen here numb nuts... it has been made CLEAR in this thread that the delivery fee goes to DRIVER GAS MONEY and to DRIVER COMPENSATION.

3/12/2010 6:09:11 AM

in what world do you live in where the COST of gas for the driver equals PROFIT for anyone (driver or business, doesnt matter)

thats the only thing the delivery fee covers, not pay, not service - just cost for getting it out to you

3/12/2010 6:32:13 AM

Quote :

"it has been made CLEAR in this thread that the delivery fee goes to..... DRIVER COMPENSATION."

No. It. Does. Not.

Smath74, you are a fucking cheap idiotic piece of shit. Seriously, STFU. You do NOT know shit.

[Edited on March 12, 2010 at 7:23 AM. Reason : ]

3/12/2010 7:23:12 AM

indy:

Quote :

"The delivery fee goes to cover the restaurant's costs (cost of material (gas) and labor (the driver) to deliver,)"

you said it yourself. the delivery fee goes back to the driver for gas and labor

3/12/2010 7:59:05 AM

Quote :

"ha. before the mandatory delivery fees I would always slip him a buck or two."

oh you're so generous.

3/12/2010 8:03:40 AM

2 bucks on a 10 buck tab is 20 percent, which is more than generous by any tipping convention.

3/12/2010 8:06:06 AM

The delivery charge could be more transparent (add it into the cost of the pizza) or it could be clearer (call it a gas surcharge or something, that is what most other industries do). As a consumer that has never worked in the pizza industry I have to ask how we are supposed to know the nuances of pizza delivery fees? I have always thought of the delivery charge as a minimum guaranteed tip to the driver, I had no idea. I also didn't know that the store buys the delivery person's gas either.

That being said I usually factor in the delivery charge with the tip. For example, if I leave a $3.50 tip and the delivery charge is $1.50, then I feel as though I've left a $5.00 tip. The IRS standard mileage reimbursement rate is 50 cents/mile, so I can't, in good conscious leave only a $1.50 tip as I'm usually farther than 1.5 miles from the pizza place. When my employer needs me to travel, I expect to get reimbursed 50 cents/mile (I realize it's not the same as the delivery guy has to drive to do his job, but I use that as a baseline). Besides, $5.00 would be the very least it's worth to me to not have to go get it myself.

After applying the Categorical Imperative, I can't justify it to myself to only pay the bare minimum delivery charge unless I receive substandard service (eg I'm told it'll be there in 30 minutes but it takes over an hour). If everyone did this then I imagine it would be all ex-convicts that'd be in possession of my pizza for undetermined amounts of time . I will be a better pizza-guy-tipper though thanks to this thread.

Ah, the morality of tipping the pizza delivery guy, there's a PHI375 paper ripe for the pickin'.

3/12/2010 8:49:57 AM

Quote :

"you said it yourself. the delivery fee goes back to the driver for gas and labor"

Are you seriously that dumb?
Are you trolling? Do I really need to spell this out for you?
Gas money is not pay. It is restaurant cost that the driver has to buy and be reimbursed for.
A very small, sometimes zero, percent of the delivery fee goes towards labor. This is their hourly pay. They would get it whether they were delivering or not. It is not a gratuity. It goes into a pool and is split according to pay rate, regardless of how many deliveries each driver makes. It is not attached to your order in any way, except that you pay it because it's a part of the cost of the order. It. Is. Not. Driver. Tips. Or. Pay. . It. Is. The. Cost. Of. Your. Order.

If you do not tip on top of a delivery fee, that is the same to the driver as if you did not tip without there being a delivery fee.

Either way, you are paying more for delivery -- that is the service. But it is a tipping service. They earn less than minimum wage because they expect tips. You know how tips work. Don't be a piece of shit troll and act like you don't. Furthermore, driving down the road at night in the rain amidst drunk drivers and jaywalking bar-hoppers is a service that deserves a tip way more than a fucking waiter filling your tea..

Get a fucking clue.

Smath74, you are a fucking cheap idiotic piece of shit. Seriously, STFU. You do NOT know shit.

Quote :

"2 bucks on a 10 buck tab is 20 percent, which is more than generous by any tipping convention."

And most people know that that convention has a minimum. Would you order $10 of food at a restaurant and only leave a $2 tip? (You probably would, you cheap piece of shit.)

Quote :

"I have always thought of the delivery charge as a minimum guaranteed tip to the driver, I had no idea"

Did you just assume that falsely, or did some douche misinform you?

Quote :

"Ah, the morality of tipping the pizza delivery guy, there's a PHI375 paper ripe for the pickin'."

lol... I bet it's been done.

Quote :

"I will be a better pizza-guy-tipper though thanks to this thread."

You see Smath? Your trolling backfired -- If even one person tips more to food deliverers, I won.



[Edited on March 12, 2010 at 9:34 AM. Reason : ]

3/12/2010 9:32:10 AM

Quote :

"Ah, the morality of tipping the pizza delivery guy, there's a PHI375 paper ripe for the pickin'."

Yeah here's the argument: don't be a fucking dick head

3/12/2010 9:40:19 AM

i tip if they get it to me quickly, but i don't tip just because i'm supposed to tip. if i have to wait over an hour for pizza and its kinda cold when it comes they aren't getting a tip.

and i don't feel bad about it, the driver is guaranteed minimum wage

3/12/2010 9:41:12 AM

I tip delivery drivers more if they are female and cute.

[Edited on March 12, 2010 at 9:57 AM. Reason : s]

3/12/2010 9:56:53 AM

HOLY SHIT I AGREE WITH MCDANGER

I think I may have just divided by 0.

3/12/2010 10:37:51 AM

Quote :

"And most people know that that convention has a minimum. Would you order $10 of food at a restaurant and only leave a $2 tip? (You probably would, you cheap piece of shit.)"

no it doesn't. in fact, 20% is supposed to be reserved for STELLAR service. Good service should be ~15%, poor service 0-15% depending on how bad.

and THAT standard is inflated, as a standard tip used to be around 10%.

3/12/2010 11:09:35 AM

a guide to piss off people with shitty jobs

1) mention not tipping
2) SUCCESS!

3/12/2010 11:37:58 AM

lol

3/12/2010 11:45:01 AM

Quote :

"Did you just assume that falsely, or did some douche misinform you?"

I assumed, although I don't think it is that much of a stretch nor do I think you can really blame anybody that also assumes this. As I said it could be more transparent or worded better. The system is messed up, but I'm not going to blame/punish the delivery guy for it. If I really cared how messed up the system is, I wouldn't use it. It's like bitching about how evil Walmart is while buying a 50" plasma, a weeks worth of groceries, and a set of tires from them. As it stands, I just don't care enough to boycott , punish the delivery guy, or go get it myself.

Quote :

"If even one person tips more to food deliverers, I won."

I mean I'm going to give the driver an $1.50 if I feel he deserves it. I don't expect that to be a huge deal to the driver. I don't tip because I feel I have to, I tip because it represents how much the service is worth it to me and reflects the level of service rendered. If nobody tipped then I would expect the price of the pizza would go up (whether you pick it up yourself or not) or the delivery fee would be jacked up (forcing me to essentially tip if my service was horrible) in order to maintain the current quality of delivery staff.

Quote :

"Yeah here's the argument: don't be a fucking dick head"

True of most ethical questions I suppose.

[Edited on March 12, 2010 at 11:47 AM. Reason : ]

3/12/2010 11:46:36 AM

This same location has an unsolved murder that occurred inside the store.

Wonderful management.

3/12/2010 12:32:16 PM

This same location has an unsolved murder that occurred inside the store.

Wonderful management.

3/12/2010 12:35:18 PM

This same location has an unsolved murder that occurred inside the store.

Wonderful management.

3/12/2010 2:06:58 PM

This same location has an unsolved murder that occurred inside the store.

Im sure not giving them a tip.

3/12/2010 3:11:34 PM

Quote :

"a guide to piss off people with shitty jobs 1) mention not tipping 2) SUCCESS!"

my job fucking owns theory destroyed

3/12/2010 3:14:38 PM

Yeah, it's been quite a while since I worked for tips. But you don't forget.

3/12/2010 3:25:27 PM

^so because it was unanswered above... do delivery drivers make "real" minimum wage or the reduced minimum that waiters/waitresses make?

it would also seem that drivers would be better off by taking the .50/mile tax deduction than bothering with recouping gas costs.

indy, please explain why I as a consumer should realize that a "delivery charge" indicates that the charge is not recouping the cost of the delivery of pizza to my house. What if the delivery charge was 5.00 for a 12 dollar pizza? would you still tip?

3/12/2010 7:51:40 PM

Quote :

"What if the delivery charge was 5.00 for a 12 dollar pizza? would you still tip?"

I would simply not order pizza from that establishment.

3/12/2010 11:07:55 PM

your question about making minimum wage or not for drivers is going to be different for every place so it shouldnt fit into the equation or not

i made 6.50/hr + all my tips when i delivered AND we didnt charge a delivery fee AND i was paid .75/mile for gas

not every place is so generous though

3/12/2010 11:25:24 PM