^^

Decent theory

11/20/2010 8:46:55 PM

The oil was changed 4k miles ago. Checked it about 2 weeks ago.

It's difficult for me to be so diligent about checking the oil when it's a 2008 and known for having such a fancy computer in it. I would hope the bright red oil light would go off accordingly.





[Edited on November 20, 2010 at 10:23 PM. Reason : ]

11/20/2010 10:08:27 PM

Well first off a turbo car take just about 5 qts the 4.2 qts is for a non turbo car so if you are running 4.2 you are almost a quart low.

Being a turbo car it will use some oil (usually pulled though the PCV into the inlet track). I believe factory says that acceptable is 1 qt every 1000 miles so if you had it changed 4000 miles ago you could conceivably be down 4 qts of oil. so you would be running the car on 1 qt of oil....not good. As for boxer engines lasting, they can they just have to be tuned well and not pushed beyond their limits. My last one had over 150K on it and used almost no oil, made good power and I beat on it regularly, only loss was when a kit totaled the car. My current one has just under 95K has 45psi hot oil pressure, no oil consumption, 17-19psi boost and is far from stock...Hell my wife drives a car with a fully built 2.5 billet wheel 18G, and you would never know her was not stock.

I am not sure but does it have an oil level idiot light?

11/21/2010 10:47:19 AM

Mehh its a gallon + enough of the 2nd gallon to make the dip-stick happy.

said 4.2 in my manual for the 2.5 turbo and 5.something for the 3.0 so thats just what i said.

I like the new legacy turbo setup i'd like to see one of those headers converted to t4 twin scroll for use with one of the new BW turbos... which means new lgt oil pan new lgt oil return pump & custom intercooler.

11/21/2010 11:15:30 AM

You know that his car's not burning 1qt/1000 miles. The car didn't smoke, started right up, idled smooth... And also, if he was doing damage to bearings from low oil pressure, his oil light would have come on. It really sounds like a manufacturing defect caused this.

11/21/2010 11:50:08 AM

i've heard that subies don't like high performance oils, the lgt forum has had a few cars that spun bearings right around a switch to mobil 1.

[Edited on November 21, 2010 at 11:57 AM. Reason : .]

11/21/2010 11:57:37 AM

I hope you realize how ridiculous that sounds.

11/21/2010 12:20:08 PM

lol yeah i completely do... i should have 0w-30 in there but still.

But there appear to be a significant number of cases... Again its poor manufacturing practices but apparently on oils designed to improve performance by maintaining lowering viscosity there is a higher probability of shear breakdown from the extreme heat of the turbo but again its probably BS...

11/21/2010 12:30:10 PM

I agree that does sound ridiculous. I've seen claims of it before, but come on...really? That being said, I was not running anything like mobil 1.

Ahmet can attest to how well my car was running. dubcaps can as well. This is completely out of left field.

11/21/2010 12:31:20 PM

well good luck.... on the upside if it is blown a bottom end isn't that awful $$

11/21/2010 12:42:30 PM

castrol 0w-30 euro or shell rotella FTW on turbo subies

11/21/2010 1:49:11 PM

Ok did not say it was burning oil, it is the PCV system, and is pulling through the inlet track, will not smoke at idle, but will pull some at cruise. Under Boost there is an amount of blowby, even new, which will put some oil into the inlet. Typical highway driving will pull a decent amount in via the PCV system.

Even back to the manual it suggests checking oil every fill up. and they do not recommend 0W-anything, other than the new NA foresters the turbo cars all recommend a specific 5w-30 full synthetic that mobile one does not meet.

it is possible that if it is an 08 that is a defect but most if not all of those cases faile din like 10k. Sounds liek an oil starvation issue, and by the time the warning light comes on at 5psi (idiot light rating) you have already damaged the bearings, if not also the heads where the cams ride.

Not trying to argue or make a stink just saying liek I see it, I have seen quite a few blown up Subaru motors and 90% if not more are owner caused, even when pistons crack it is cvause somebody was runnign high boost/bad tune most of the time.

Just saying

See this from subaru
http://www.drive.subaru.com/sum08/sum08_turbo.htm

11/21/2010 4:30:46 PM

That's cool, cause my car is running stock boost with the factory tune.

11/21/2010 4:41:04 PM

Oil pressure light is there to warn of oil pressure that's too low, 5psi is too low at idle? The owners manual I'm sure indicates that an occasional flicker at warm idle or low rpm is OK (as does every factory manual I've ever read says so), not that the light was ever on in this car...

Why are we even talking about this, are you really of the opinion that a factory stock Subaru with low miles would've used 4 quarts of oil in 4k miles? Because if so, they should be replacing or fixing the engine anyway...

Fact is, Subaru should cover this, and if it doesn't... well a phone call to Subaru NA better get them to cover it, this is exactly what warranties are for. This wasn't an abused car, it wasn't a modified car, it's a stock car that's still under warranty.

[Edited on November 21, 2010 at 6:51 PM. Reason : I mean duh]

11/21/2010 6:46:59 PM

Subaru hot oil pressure is 20-40 PSI on a good engine at Idle. The warning light is a 5PSI switch pretty much to tell you you have no oil pressure. Once it is lit at any time (when running) you are usually screwed. Rule of thumb is 15psi at idle is the least you want, and 10PSI for each 1000RPM that is minimum. Occasional flicker of an oil light at idle is never acceptable on this car or any car I have ever owned.

Any yes it is acceptable for a brand new turbo subaru to use up to 1 qt every 1000 miles it is not an opinion it is fact that that is considered acceptable for this engine combination. IF the dealer checks it and it is excessively low on oil, or the oil is toast/poor quality they will and have refused to cover it, I am just stating the facts. I just recently had a customer with a 07 STI limited that Subaru refused to cover under warranty, exact same situation, and no Call to Subaru of America made a difference (In that case we even were for it being warrantied) but dealer made decision. SOA stuck by it.

To Quote Subaru's own site

Quote :

"Allowing the engine oil level to drop by more than one quart may cause oil starvation, oil pump cavitation, and bearing damage. Over time, the cumulative effect will cause turbocharger and engine failure"

11/21/2010 8:32:28 PM

Finally somebody who agrees with me that STi's and turbo 2.5's can consume significant amounts of oil in completely stock configuration--at least, in comparison to a Civic or something. Believe it or not, they're actually a lot like newer rotaries in terms of oil consumption.

11/21/2010 11:31:47 PM

Ok I give up, new stock STI's use four quarts every two weeks, and as a result of running dry on oil, break without so much as an oil light flicker.

Ps: check your owners manual, $5 says it mentions a flickering oil light being ok under heavy load/high temps at low rpm -not that this is even relevant.

11/22/2010 12:40:53 AM

I WAS MISTAKEN The 2008 STI's owners manual is the first one I've read which does not indicate that an occasional flicker of the oil light is OK under certain conditions.

SMSJ indeed...

11/22/2010 2:21:02 AM

The oil consumption all depends on how the car is driven as the PCV system can pull oil through into the inlet.

As for the oil light flickering, most cars (without true oil pressure gauges) usually just have a 5-10PSI switch which is at most an idiot light that by the time it comes on you are either fucked, or have an engine that can sustain super low oil pressure. Subarus have pretty high oil pressure compared to other cars out there at idle (30-50psi hot) and 80-105 PSI cold

11/22/2010 6:56:02 AM

Got the paper work on the last oil change to check out how many miles it's been. Less than 2.5k on the clock sense the change.

11/22/2010 2:21:05 PM

Yeah. That doesn't matter bro. If you ran it outta oil I'd be surprised to see your warranty to be covered

11/22/2010 4:56:39 PM

I'm simply commenting on the absurdity of this.

If one more person tells me that it's expected that a turbo 2.5l burns oil like the sun, and that the oil pressure warning light doesn't come on till way too fucking late I'm going to fucking kill someone.

^ Do you really think comments like that is what I want to hear right now. Have some fucking compassion considering I'm probably going to have to drop a shit ton of money into this?

11/22/2010 6:40:19 PM

He said he checked the oil 2 weeks ago, regardless, the oil change was done <2600 miles ago... Subaru better not claim that it's OK for an engine to run through ~3.5 quarts of oil in (well) under 2600 miles, then self destruct... Warranty coverage is THE reason people buy new cars, to not have to worry about things like this exact situation.

11/22/2010 6:47:30 PM

I have checked it sense the change. In fairness it has probably been more than 2 weeks...3-4.

11/22/2010 6:59:04 PM

Yeah, but how many miles? Under 1k?

11/22/2010 7:04:48 PM

Yes, considering some of the bulk of the miles on the car are driving it from PA to NC.

11/22/2010 7:19:12 PM

If this were any other year besides a 2008 I'd be a little more judgmental, but if magazines are blowing motors on test cars you know it was a bad model year. I've seen earlier STi's run a quart low and survive.

11/22/2010 7:39:25 PM

Right, and I don't see how anyone can make the case that it's OK for a factory stock car (under factory warranty), to go through 3.5+ quarts of oil under 1k miles, then puke it's guts out, and that this is somehow "user error". You better not have something to worry about. I'd be more than happy to go raise hell with Subaru alongside you...

*On a personal note*, Subaru can publish whatever they want as "acceptable" oil usage, Porsche's got something similar, I believe they go down to 1 quart/600 miles of hard track use, BMW says the same. Derrick and I used to have a 1993 325i "cup" car (at over 150k miles, and about 13 years old at the time) that we split between us as a track car, I've even done time trials with it. It didn't use a drop of oil in 5k miles, including several of these track weekends. I've repeated this w/several other BMWs and Porsches as well. Sure I've also had a few that use "some" oil (though nowhere near this absurd guideline for what's "acceptable"), but for a NEW car to use 1quart of oil/1000 miles is unacceptable to ME. We're not talking about a 60s oil cooled motor here, modern cars aren't supposed to use anywhere near this quantity of oil. It's somewhat disheartening to see this happen on such a car, but manufacturing problems do occur in any mass produced product, the important thing is how Subaru decides to handle this particular instance.

11/22/2010 7:44:26 PM

I think these are to separate issues.

Your track car didn't have a huge air pump connected to the same pipe their positive crankcase ventilation valve is connected to. It seems like everyone in the subie tuner community makes an oil catch can to put in the PCV track to catch the oil and let it drain back to the oil pan (some just hold it i think). Point being its going to suck oil. Your intake pipe (not manifold) may get a decent vacuum under full throttle acceleration but it still doesn't have a "centrifugal vacuum pump" connected to it. Now if you're using 1 quart per 1000 miles... i don't think that's the PCV anymore unless you have one big ass turbo and a huge breather tube. Now another thing subies have working against them in the PCV system is that its a flat motor, so it doesn't have the "help" of a V or an I to that better employ gravity's help tochange the oil's mind about going through the tube.

That being said Subaru's block casting techniques suck so bad that Cosworth throws away some of the BRAND NEW EJ-257 blocks they get from Subaru because the bores can't even be straightened with a light bore/hone. (info from cosworth themselves) They pour molten aluminum over thin metal iron cylinder sleeves not too bright if you ask me but it seems to work most of the time lol.

11/22/2010 8:32:02 PM

Irrelevant why or how, it's not OK for a car to use that much oil, not for any reason (OK, maybe if it cured cancer)...

There are plenty of turbocharged cars that don't, in fact look at Subaru's own WRX Turbo, I tracked mine too, didn't use any oil. 911 twin turbos hardly use any oil also.

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 8:55 PM. Reason : Mark, was that you I met at turbo time when talking to some of the guys there?]

11/22/2010 8:54:29 PM

Mine does t use oil either but I drive the shit outta it.

11/22/2010 9:28:54 PM

Alright, nobody said that it was ok to go through 3.5+ qts in 1000 miles, I said the acceptable number according to subaru is 1 qt every 1000 miles if i remember. You are jsut coming up with crazy shit on that one. I do not care what Porsche, or BMW state, I am just stating the facts on this car and this engine. Also I was jsut stating that the majority of rod knocking crank subarus are user cause, whether by beatings or lack of making sure oil is either full or of good quality. Hopefully this is one of the fluke 08s that had a bearing problem (that lather pushed them to nitrided cranks). I have seen Subaru cover some pretty bad stuff here and there, so hopefully it will work out, alot goes down to what tech at what dealer is looking at it as well, if it is some douchey novice asshole...good luck, if it is a seasoned master tech you run a better chance.

When we (and I even in this case) build a subaru motor I take alot of care on the oiling and PCV systems as they can be temperamental. we usually add the newer higher volume pumps (11mm vs 10mm rotors on pre 08s and 12mm vs 11mm on the 08-up dual AVCS stuff), also some porting and relieving on the oil passages in a couple of places..

Having heard that you only had 2500 on it since the last change and you have documentation of such, you are running a better chance. How many miles are on the car total? do you knwo if the reflash recall was performed on it?

And Yes that was me Ahmet, you also have met me while I was hanging out with Henry when he was still at M-Powered.

11/22/2010 10:24:02 PM

Yaaaaaaay!

11/23/2010 12:03:21 AM

I just can't fathom getting a car towed with rod knock and not checking the oil level first. I don't actually think it ate 3qts. Like ahmet said...that is pretty crazy!

I've read enough honda dealer horror stories to know you cover your bases. Seems like 08 stis are famous for this. Five on your side baby!!!

11/23/2010 7:00:16 AM

^ My head wasn't exactly clear when I had it towed from the random parking lot I had to pull into. I pretty much continually beat myself up about it. I don't need you reminding me believe it or not.

^^^ The car has 41,9XX on it at the moment. I talked to the tech yesterday, and he was a really nice guy. A younger guy, that has seen a lot of 08s come in with ringland failures and rod knocks. He said that Subaru is more than likely going to want a history of all the oil changes done to the car. I can't provide that as I'm the second owner. I'm working on getting a better paper trail on it. I do remember the Carfax showing that Subaru did the majority of the services on the car for the first owner. It also has had warranty work done to it before. I believe it was around 8k miles, and I'm betting that was a ringland issue.

11/23/2010 7:29:35 AM

So I got my hands on the Carfax because I remembered seeing a bunch of dealer services on it before I bought the car. It shows the car was serviced at the Subaru dealer it war purchased from On regular intervals during the first owners possession of the car. This has to count as documented maintenance for all intents and purposes. If all of these regular services are shown on the Carfax they're definitely going to be in the computer with Subaru. Am I right about this?

11/23/2010 10:51:57 AM

should be the case. you would think they could search by VIN.

no hard feelings man! i love le wagons

11/23/2010 12:13:42 PM

I hope that your warranty gets honored

11/23/2010 12:22:25 PM

Started on this turbo install.





You can see the Garrett wastegate actuator and Hitachi compressor housing there. The IHI turbine housing is retained. The wastegate actuator uses a 1/4" hose barb versus the 5/32" (?) stock hose, so we had to install different fittings on the new boost control solenoid.

We got the down pipe and up pipe off. We installed an aftermarket oil feed line because the factory one has a restricter in it and BNR recommended a different feed line for the new turbo. It also turns out that the factory oil feed line filter was clogged, and this was most likely the cause of failure. I knew this occured on the Legacy turbos but I didn't realize the STi had it as well. The old turbo had significant shaft play in both the radial and axial direction.

We still have to get the new turbo bolted up. The oil drain hose and turbo inlet are pretty big pain in the ass to install while you are trying to line up the up pipe studs.

[Edited on November 24, 2010 at 1:12 AM. Reason : fixed image tags]

11/24/2010 1:09:37 AM

18g will be what 330ish whp @20psi?

Any word from Subaru on the 08 bigT?

11/24/2010 9:53:26 AM

Quote :

"18g will be what 330ish whp @20psi?"

something like that, you know how dynos are. an 18G is a turbo you get for some extra torque and more fun daily driving. it's not going to make particularly impressive peak numbers when tuned conservatively, especially with the stock STi intercooler.

11/24/2010 10:03:36 AM

The tech working with my car was in classes all day yesterday. He's back in this morning. He said he would be pulling all the computer data, taking photos, and documenting everything he could to submit to Subaru before lunch. There is a chance I will hear back this afternoon, but I'm not holding my breath.

11/24/2010 10:14:37 AM

Yeah the ish means +/- 5% for heart breaker/ dream maker dyno

And good luck bigt she's a pretty car I hope everything works out well.

Btw my car on rotella t6 has noticably less valve noise under the hood.

11/24/2010 10:55:11 AM

yeah after reading comments i will be switching to rotella t6 after the rebuild. whenever that may be. if i can afford to buy oil that is...

11/24/2010 11:14:23 AM

05 STi owner here crossing my fingers for you

[Edited on November 24, 2010 at 12:55 PM. Reason : .]

11/24/2010 12:53:57 PM

Tech didn't get into work until after lunch today. Surprise! Anyways. The day ended with no word of course. I'm hoping they'll be up and running on Friday.

11/24/2010 5:17:21 PM

Well that sucks... They will have had the car a week before you even know if it's covered, what a bummer.

11/24/2010 8:02:48 PM

Mr. T, I support you in your endeavours, hopefully subaru can honor this warranty.


its stupid how a car can do that with just about no warning signs. cars nowadays suck.

lets go back to the 80s-90s

11/25/2010 10:13:32 AM

rotella t6 is the best oil I've ever used. I use it in my bikes. it's meant for diesel trucks that get 20k+ oil change intervals. certainly holds up to 15k no clutch shifts. for $20/gal at walmart, you cannot beat it.

11/25/2010 10:29:43 AM

I have run both the regular rotella and the T6 in the WRX, and when I had them analyzed by blackstone both were almost identical results (both summer oil changes with similar runs to and from the mountains). Right now I am going to test the new Subaru 5w30 (the oil Subaru requires for the 2011 up cars) both to check how it holds up temp-viscosity vs the other oils I have run (using my gauges as a reference) and then sending to blackstone when I am done to see how it holds up...

Somehow I always get to be the oil guinea pig at the shop, so far I have tested the rotellas, amsoil, and two valvolines, and the valvolines did not hold up well per the blackstone test, ther others were very similar result but of course the rotells had more zinc and anti-ware in them. i will say that I have heard bad things about the phosphors and zinc in rotella being bad for cars with cats....would not know that issue myself

And baonest, you ain't kidding, lets go back to when automakers put actual oil pressure gauges in cars rather than oil idiot lights! I have not had any car I have not put a real oil pressure gauge in...hell even the old cop car!

[Edited on November 25, 2010 at 10:44 AM. Reason : OIl pressure]

11/25/2010 10:43:15 AM