Who here plans on paying ALL of their (and their family's) medical expenses out of pocket over the course of their lifetime?

6/29/2012 11:26:58 AM

I have a friend who has never had health insurance. She's paid out of pocket for everything, even the birth of her children. Her parents never had health insurance. When we were children, they were always particular about making sure they weren't in a situation where they would get sick, or break a bone, etc. They keep track of how much money they spend, and they've saved thousands more by paying out of pocket than they would have, it they had paid insurance premiums. Now, obviously, if something catastrophic happens, that could change. But, they've made a conscious decision to take that risk.

6/29/2012 11:56:28 AM

Quote :

"health-care? umm you surely will use it, and now that insurance companies can't fuck you over just when you need them most, you'll need to get slowly drained instead"

Why fuck over a few people when you can fuck over everyone, then change the rules to fuck people over again when healthcare costs continue to inflate?

Quote :

"I have a friend who has never had health insurance. She's paid out of pocket for everything, even the birth of her children. Her parents never had health insurance. When we were children, they were always particular about making sure they weren't in a situation where they would get sick, or break a bone, etc. They keep track of how much money they spend, and they've saved thousands more by paying out of pocket than they would have, it they had paid insurance premiums. Now, obviously, if something catastrophic happens, that could change. But, they've made a conscious decision to take that risk."

The solution is that health care SHOULD BE affordable without insurance.
The old problem is health care is too expensive to afford without insurance.
The new problem is health insurance is too expensive to afford without stealing money from people who don't use heath care.


It's like throwing water on a chemical fire.



[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 12:06 PM. Reason : .]

6/29/2012 11:56:43 AM

Quote :

" Ihave a friend who has never had health insurance. She's paid out of pocket for everything... Now, obviously, if something catastrophic happens, that could change. But, they've made a conscious decision to take that risk."

exactly. what happens when they get in a car-wreck or are diagnosed with cancer. She won't be able to afford those costs, so do we as a society just let her die because of the risk she willingly took? Or will charities step-up and pay the 100s of 1000s of dollars?

Quote :

"The solution is that health care SHOULD BE affordable without insurance."

I agree with genius. But that doesn't sound like capitalism... sound like you're calling for some sort of... socialism.

6/29/2012 12:16:50 PM

The American people have been offered two lousy choices. One, which is corporatism, a fascist type of approach, or, socialism. We deliver a lot of services in this country through the free market, and when you do it through the free market prices go down. But in medicine, prices go up. Technology doesn't help the cost, it goes up instead of down. But if you look at almost all of our industries that are much freer, technology lowers the prices. Just think of how the price of cell phones goes down. Poor people have cell phones, and televisions, and computers. Prices all go down. But in medicine, they go up, and there's a reason for that, that's because the government is involved with it... I do [think that prices will go down without government involvement], but probably a lot more than what you're thinking about, because you have to have competition in the delivery of care. For instance, if you have a sore throat and you have to come see me, you have to wait in the waiting room, and then get checked, and then get a prescription, and it ends up costing you $100. If you had true competition, you should be able to go to a nurse, who could for 1/10 the cost very rapidly do it, and let her give you a prescription for penicillin. See, the doctors and the medical profession have monopolized the system through licensing. And that's not an accident, because they like the idea that you have to go see the physician and pay this huge price. And patients can sort this out, they're not going to go to a nurse if they need brain surgery...

-Ron Paul, 2007

6/29/2012 12:35:04 PM

That sounds fairly plausible. Except i'm not sure how plausible it would be to do away with licensing and completely deregulating the medical industry.



[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 1:01 PM. Reason : ]

6/29/2012 12:50:31 PM

You can take the government out of it all you want and medicine will never be cheap.

I, for one, wouldn't trust most of the nurses I've dealt with to know jack shit about drug interactions or much of anything else, for that matter.

6/29/2012 12:54:40 PM

Quote :

"You can take the government out of it all you want and medicine will never be cheap. "

That's why I can go to the store an buy Tylenol for a couple dollars, It'll never be cheap.

Quote :

" I, for one, wouldn't trust most of the nurses I've dealt with to know jack shit about drug interactions or much of anything else, for that matter."

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

6/29/2012 1:08:02 PM

Quote :

"What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?"

see, this is what i don't get about you. do you really not know why this was said, or are you just playing stupid?

6/29/2012 1:12:47 PM

I don't understand what's so hard to get about it.

It obviously implies that what he said has nothing to do with the conversation.

6/29/2012 1:16:28 PM

ok, so you actually do have an inability to comprehend simple things.

it directly addresses one of the sentences in your ron paul quote.
see if you can figure out which one it is.

6/29/2012 1:20:01 PM

"And patients can sort this out, they're not going to go to a nurse if they need brain surgery..."?

6/29/2012 1:21:52 PM

IIRC Ron Paul was talking about "Nurse Practitioners" rather than run-of-the-mill Registered Nurses; among other things, Nurse Practitioners have graduate degrees and are able to serve as primary-care providers.

[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 1:24 PM. Reason : like Paul thought medicine would be less expensive if we used Nurse Practitioners instead of doctors]

6/29/2012 1:22:59 PM

^^guy, you're constantly undermining your own credibility.

seriously, are you purposely not seeing the sentence he was responding to? can you really not figure it out?

[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 1:28 PM. Reason : ^ok, now that actually addresses the sentence]

6/29/2012 1:26:59 PM

What's wrong with the sentence I posted?

6/29/2012 1:28:21 PM

it was the wrong sentence. oh yeah, i need to ignore you, i feel dumb.

6/29/2012 1:29:39 PM

I'm not seeing how it's wrong.

Quote :

""And patients can sort this out, they're not going to go to a nurse if they need brain surgery..."?"

Quote :

"I, for one, wouldn't trust most of the nurses I've dealt with to know jack shit about drug interactions or much of anything else, for that matter.""

Follow pretty smoothly to me.

6/29/2012 1:31:43 PM

Quote :

"I, for one, wouldn't trust most of the nurses I've dealt with to know jack shit about drug interactions or much of anything else, for that matter."

doctors really aren't the best at that either....that's what your pharmacist is for.

6/29/2012 1:32:14 PM

^^i'm sorry man, but you're retarded. either that, or you're just trying to play cute, but i'm not sure why you'd do that because it makes you seem completely uncredible.

the statement about nurses not knowing about prescription interations was in response to paul's statement about going to a nurse for a prescription. it seesms so completely obvious i can't believe i'm typing it out, but i'm really curious if you're that retarded or if you're just a total troll.

6/29/2012 1:37:17 PM

Cool story, bro. I must be at some sort of higher level intelligence than you because what I posted was preeeeettty elementary.


Also, context means everything. If you're not using context right, then you're going to be lost in translation each and every single instance of every post I ever make.

[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 1:44 PM. Reason : .]

6/29/2012 1:44:04 PM

Quote :

"Cool story, bro. I must be at some sort of higher level intelligence than you because what I posted was preeeeettty elementary."

holy crap, something is wrong with you.

you posted a quote from ron paul talking about going to nurses to get prescriptions.
someone responded that they wouldn't trust nurses recomending prescrpitions.

you don't understand that, and instead you post a quote about not going to a nurse for brain surgery.

and then you try to talk about your higher level of intelligence?

6/29/2012 1:51:26 PM

Yet more libertarians coming out in favor of single payer healthcare. This time it is Mike Munger, the libertarian candidate for North Carolina Governor in 2008.
http://mungowitzend.blogspot.com/2012/06/single-payer.html

I agree completely. Anything that scraps the current system is a dramatic improvement.

[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 1:54 PM. Reason : .,.]

6/29/2012 1:53:56 PM

Quote :

"holy crap, something is wrong with you. you posted a quote from ron paul talking about going to nurses to get prescriptions. someone responded that they wouldn't trust nurses recomending prescrpitions. you don't understand that, and instead you post a quote about not going to a nurse for brain surgery. and then you try to talk about your higher level of intelligence?"

Context bro. His question you are so concerned about was answered in the same paragraph.

He didn't even have a question.
I had a question because the sentence did not follow the conversation.
You assumed he's talking about some specific sentence in the quote.
I had posted the Ron Paul quote to make you look like an idiot suggesting that I was advocating socialism.

[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 2:18 PM. Reason : .]

6/29/2012 2:00:27 PM

Quote :

"I had a question because the sentence did not follow the conversation."

The sentence has everything to do with your quote. I'm sorry you lack the requisite communication skills to understand a basic response. Everyone, other than you, that has posted understands the comment and responded appropriately.

[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 2:26 PM. Reason : ]

6/29/2012 2:26:01 PM

Thoughts do not follow:


You can take the government out of it all you want and medicine will never be cheap.

I, for one, wouldn't trust most of the nurses I've dealt with to know jack shit about drug interactions or much of anything else, for that matter.

6/29/2012 2:32:43 PM

Trust me, no one here finds it difficult to believe that you don't understand something.

[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 2:39 PM. Reason : ]

6/29/2012 2:39:00 PM

^I'm sorry you lack the requisite communication skills to understand a basic response.

6/29/2012 2:41:36 PM

Cool story, bro. I must be at some sort of higher level intelligence than you because what I posted was preeeeettty elementary.

6/29/2012 2:43:36 PM

holy crap, something is wrong with you.

6/29/2012 2:44:59 PM

Also, context means everything. If you're not using context right, then you're going to be lost in translation each and every single instance of every post I ever make.

6/29/2012 2:48:39 PM

That's why I can go to the store an buy Tylenol for a couple dollars, It'll never be cheap.

6/29/2012 2:50:35 PM

Ignoring the fact that tylenol is worthless, what does that have to do with the cost of a doctor visit or other medication that everyone doesn't need?

6/29/2012 3:13:04 PM

you don't need a doctor to prescribe medicines for common issues...you have indepth questions about the drugs?..ask you pharmacist about it for free when you get the scrip filled.

6/29/2012 3:24:50 PM

Why is it you think a Nurse Practitioner visit is going to cost less than a doctor visit?

If that's truly what Paul was even talking about...

I haven't seen an actual doctor in years...nurse practitioners aren't magically faster or cheaper.

6/29/2012 3:32:42 PM

lol, magically. of course it brings the costs down...If you (and everyone else) had to see a doctor for all these years you've been seeing NPs your copay, ins premiums, or both would be higher.

6/29/2012 3:56:51 PM

Damn, according to you and Ron Paul, if it weren't for NPs my premium would be 40k and my copay would be 100 bones? Thank god for NPs, amirite? Too bad I still have to wait in the waiting rooms for ~1-3 hours

[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 4:11 PM. Reason : ]

6/29/2012 4:10:59 PM

So what's your solution for lowering medicinal costs, JaZon.

6/29/2012 4:13:38 PM

Why don't you track down where I said I had a solution and repeat it over and over.

6/29/2012 4:14:41 PM

You basically said it was impossible to lower medicinal costs.

6/29/2012 4:15:13 PM

So why are you asking what my solution is?

6/29/2012 4:16:20 PM

To make sure everyone realizes what an idiot you are

6/29/2012 4:16:50 PM

How does it feel to be clever for the first time you your life?

6/29/2012 4:17:46 PM

No, but seriously back on topic, there are numerous ways medicinal costs can be lowered.

Without even thinking, these two ways can lower medicinal costs, one more drastically than the other:

1) Increase the value of the dollar.
2) Create competition

6/29/2012 4:21:33 PM

Genius, I am sorry to get personal, but it's baffling to me that you don't understand the conversation that took place.

Two other people understood and responded accordingingly(lewis and wlb). You, however, just don't even seem to understand what was being said. I laid it out as simply as i possibly could, and you still don't understand.

Quote :

"You assumed he's talking about some specific sentence in the quote."

i'm pretty sure it's completely obvious that he was talking about a specific sentence. other people understood too.

[Edited on June 29, 2012 at 4:25 PM. Reason : ]

6/29/2012 4:24:13 PM

Sucks to be you.

6/29/2012 4:28:12 PM

it does suck. i let incompletent people bother me too much. i shouldn't worry, and be happy.

6/29/2012 4:29:01 PM

Quote :

"i let incompletent people bother me too much"

Way to go, you pulled a geniusxboy.

6/29/2012 4:33:32 PM

sorry to go off on a tangent guys.

6/29/2012 4:35:11 PM

Quote :

"Damn, according to you and Ron Paul, if it weren't for NPs my premium would be 40k and my copay would be 100 bones? Thank god for NPs, amirite? Too bad I still have to wait in the waiting rooms for ~1-3 hours"

to be such a whiner about other people misrepresenting you, this is a whopper

6/29/2012 4:40:48 PM

Quote :

"you should be able to go to a nurse, who could for 1/10 the cost very rapidly do it"

Oh yea?

6/29/2012 4:43:10 PM