Earlier, I was just giving another reason where a non-traditional student may have needed to borrow monies for school.

No, I do not support this bill. I look at student loans as an investment in myself. Therefore, my debt that I am responsible for.

LOL CHIT CHAT

4/23/2012 10:44:35 AM

Agreed that the minimum is likely much more than 10% of discretionary income.

But that 10% hurdle is not difficult to meet. Especially if you know that at the end of those 10 years, that's all you have to pay.

4/23/2012 10:45:17 AM

Quote :

"we need to get of the idea that you need a four year degree to be a computer nerd, too. you're right, I want a bunch of uneducated hicks producing all my food."

Haha, farmers have been doing fine without college educations for centuries, and now you're worried about the tractor driver having a college degree? I'm not saying a college degree can't help a farm; it can, if used; however, from what I've seen, the vast majority of these people don't use that degree. Some 2-yr program graduates to use theirs, as they expand/update the business side of farming, but many still go back to the old way.

4/23/2012 10:46:41 AM

The blame for the "student loan crisis" does not fall squarely on the students. The banks with the governments blessing continued to push student loans down everyone's throats without any checks & balances in place for academic progress or being in a program with jobs available to grads.

Again I revert back to housing for an example, 100% financing with no down payment and no proof of steady income, no skin in the game, etc. (reckless lending)

A lot of people with tons of student loan debt do not even have degrees, they just have tons of student loan debt.

4/23/2012 10:46:42 AM

^^ Farmers are educated, they do not need a formal sheet of paper that certifies their knowledge.

4/23/2012 10:48:09 AM

Banks bailed out for making terrible loans, people live in homes for 3+ years without making a single mortgage payment = "We're saving capitalism from itself, the free market has failed"

Students potentially getting "bailed out" for taking out terrible loans = "A slap in the face"

I've worked hard to pay down my loans since I've graduated, especially once I got a better paying job. I've got skin in the game. With that said, the student loan market is fucked beyond repair. The only way to fix it is to allow defaults/restructuring.

The result will be that some banks will fail, some universities will have to shut down, some students won't go to college. And you know what? Other solutions will arise. People will realize that you don't have to spend 100,000 dollars in the 21st century to get educated.

4/23/2012 10:50:29 AM

^^I didn't say that they weren't educated...

4/23/2012 10:51:02 AM

lol i know what discretionary income is, silly.


That said, the chances of this passing is nill. I think everyone pretty much knows that. Nevertheless, it doesn't stop people from finding the opportunity to beat their chests in pride at their own accomplishments via carrying the flag of standing against this bill. It's actually a very interesting study in behavior.

4/23/2012 10:51:19 AM

Quote :

" Haha, farmers have been doing fine without college educations for centuries, and now you're worried about the tractor driver having a college degree? I'm not saying a college degree can't help a farm; it can, if used; however, from what I've seen, the vast majority of these people don't use that degree. Some 2-yr program graduates to use theirs, as they expand/update the business side of farming, but many still go back to the old way."

This post tells me you know nothing of the agriculture industry and stereotype all farmers as dumb. You do realize there is a whole lot more to farming than driving a tractor, right?

4/23/2012 10:53:49 AM

Yes, I do actually. And I never said they were dumb. I said the vast majority don't need a 4 year degree.

Where I've seen college degrees pay off in farming is technology updating, equipment updating, till/planting/processing updating/optimization, etc. However, I've seen more farmers resist these updates than actually use them; sometimes because of initials costs, sometimes because the farmers know what works and will continue doing so. Also, many of these "updates" can be achieved and supported through NC Extension, thus no need to spend tons of money on an education.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 10:57 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2012 10:54:26 AM

I propose student loan forgiveness for those who have debt and free cars for those who paid off their student loans. Oh, and free cars for people whose parents paid for them to go to school. We're all going to get paid in my America.

4/23/2012 10:56:41 AM

I was under the impression that the days of the small farmer are pretty much over, its all about having a large operation with the best equipment now, which probably does require more education.

4/23/2012 10:57:01 AM

commerical farms do have more of a need for college educations, for certain positions within the farms. However, I'm more familiar with local/small farmers. Also, there has been a slight increase in interest/use of local/small farmers with the whole go local/green/organic movement.

However, you can't compare commercial vs local farms all that well in regards to education needed. Commercial farms are more in the business and technology fields, which require specialized employees. Local farmers typically do not require such specialization as they produce the food locally and sell it to local markets. They don't have marketing and corporate divisions, they don't have IT departments, they don't have business/sales people. When you get to field level, it's more comparable, because the drivers, pickers, and processors are certainly blue collar workers, similar to local farmers, where 4 year degrees are generally not needed.

That's really talking about two different things. You have people going to school for business, advertising, computer science, etc. who end up in the ag business. Heck, some schools may offer these programs geared towards ag. Those aren't the same people working the field, running the equipment, etc. Thus my point stands, famers (i.e. field workers) don't need 4 yr degrees. The son of a local farmer, who plans to take over the farm generally doesn't need/use a college degree. His father is a smart guy, he knows what works and passes that on, thus a college degree isn't needed. It's generally only needed when the farm/business is going to be changed/updated, as I said before (incorporating new technology, business models, economics, trade, optimization, etc.).

I harp on this because I know too many "farm boys" who came and got 2 or 4 year degrees and are not using them, at all. Some did ag degrees, others did various other degrees. Some by admission, others by my observations, do not use them. I'm not trying to pick on farmers; I just used them as an example. The same goes for someone else who gets a college degree and then goes into a retail position.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 11:17 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2012 10:58:26 AM

its a lot easier if you dont always feel the urge to buy the latest xbox game, tickets to wrestlemania, ppv UFC, and always have the latest iphone.

most "college grads" spend their last fucking dime on ^

oh, lets not forget the all-important and untouchable alcohol budget. fuck student loans, theyre monopoly money anyway. if i wait them out long enough our elected messiah will make them vanish.

in the meantime i cant miss out on beer-pong.

exaggerated? maybe. not too far off the worthless college student mindset i imagine...

4/23/2012 11:33:40 AM

This reminds me of that luxury housing going up on Hillsborough st.

Some of those kids will be living there on mom & dad, some will be there on Uncle SAM.

4/23/2012 11:50:25 AM

I don't see why you really even brought farmers into this discussion. The vast majority of farm kids in four year degree programs aren't going into massive debt to get their education only to not have a job to pay off the loans.

But yes, there are a ton of people who go to college and then go into retail management, sales, nursing, etc. that need absolutely no education post high school.

4/23/2012 11:53:08 AM

Quote :

"fuck student loans mortgages, theyre monopoly money anyway."

We learned it from the Big Banks and Wall St

4/23/2012 11:55:45 AM

Nurses pretty much need 4 year degrees now, so, I don't know why people keep including that job field in the list, unless you're working in a small town.

4/23/2012 11:56:15 AM

I hope you people aren't talking about need-based aid going away, because then you're basically saying everyone should have to pay for their parent's mistakes in not having enough money to send them to school.

I support making it harder to get in to college as opposed to making it harder to pay for. If you have the grades, you should get it free, but a whole lot fewer people should be getting in. Overwhelming majority of spots should be in STEM, with exceptionally high achieving Liberal Arts students to stay well-rounded.

If you can afford to pay out of pocket, you should have to pay out of pocket.

Business is a joke degree that you'd be better off learning on through actual work experience.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 12:02 PM. Reason : x]

4/23/2012 12:01:24 PM

^^What if you have a 4 year degree and get an RN diploma from a 2 year program?


[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 12:03 PM. Reason : ^^]

4/23/2012 12:03:14 PM

That's fine I think. Just need to have any kind of a 4 year degree to really be successful as a nurse.

4/23/2012 12:04:51 PM

^^^no, that's not what I'm saying (in fact, I said the opposite). I mostly agree with your post. however, this country can't afford to give free secondary education.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 12:05 PM. Reason : ^]

4/23/2012 12:05:20 PM

if this passes i'm going to finance my way through Harvard Law

4/23/2012 12:09:07 PM

dammit. If this passes, I'm going to work at mcdonald's or something so my loan payment will be over 10%.

4/23/2012 12:16:54 PM

maybe you should try UNC-Charlotte Law

4/23/2012 12:17:00 PM

Quote :

"But yes, there are a ton of people who go to college and then go into retail management, sales, nursing, etc. that need absolutely no education post high school."

Well yeah... but the point of going to college wasn't so they would work those jobs. This constitutes a failure between the intention and the reality.

Engineering isn't the end-all-be-all, I think we need better coupling between industry and higher education. The growth of low value added jobs in the US is actually a huge problem IMO. I don't know how, but we need to figure out how to consolidate these service sector jobs and replace them with better paying private sector jobs that create more value. How? I do not have the foggiest idea, but education is probably going to have to be a big part of it. The problem is that education will probably lag, not lead, the development of new industries.

4/23/2012 12:17:53 PM

Quote :

" That's fine I think. Just need to have any kind of a 4 year degree to really be successful as a nurse."

But yet farmers, who must deal with biology, economics, business management, chemistry, physics and about every other discipline you can think of on a daily basis have no need for college. Because they just drive tractors.

4/23/2012 12:19:18 PM

Quote :

"maybe you should try UNC-Charlotte Law"

Every time I see a FB friend get suckered into UNC-Charlotte Law, or any other shit law school, I die a little inside.

4/23/2012 12:20:11 PM

Just to throw some numbers out there:

The difference in a monthly payment between 6.8% and 3.4% on an average $25,000 10-year student loan is ~$40 per month. $287.75 vs. $246.16.

However, that ~$40/month adds up to an additional $5,000 worth of interest over the life of the loan, assuming you don't overpay.

Go play around with some numbers here, and with an amortization table over on BankRate
http://www.cfnc.org/Gateway?command=RepayCalc&calcaction=calc_staf&LoanAmount=10000

Quote :

"discussion on Diane Rehm Show (NPR) as I type"

I'm listening to it now, and these commentators are dumb as rocks.

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 12:49 PM. Reason : ]

4/23/2012 12:32:04 PM

[Edited on April 23, 2012 at 12:49 PM. Reason : whoops]

4/23/2012 12:49:26 PM

Quote :

"Every time I see a FB friend get suckered into UNC-Charlotte Law, or any other shit law school, I die a little inside."

Turns out Chapel Hill isn't any better, really.

4/23/2012 1:09:57 PM

Quote :

"But yet farmers, who must deal with biology, economics, business management, chemistry, physics and about every other discipline you can think of on a daily basis have no need for college. Because they just drive tractors."

Driving a tractor is way more baller than what you're giving it credit for. So much so we need simulator games for it.

4/23/2012 1:15:36 PM

I think I could be a farmer. I played Farmville for like 3 months and had a massive farm.

4/23/2012 1:18:45 PM

I should have been a farmer like my father wanted.

4/23/2012 2:11:29 PM

i'm completely fine with my tax-money being used for this, much moreso than a lot of other programs.

as long as the person has become a productive member of society and somewhat utilizes their education.

4/23/2012 7:04:39 PM

First of all, STOP USING YOURSELF AS AN EXAMPLE AGAINST SOCIAL PROGRAMS. Its a shit argument as you are promoting yourself as an exceptional individual and programs are not geared towards exceptional individuals who will succeed under ANy cirCUmstances.

Quote :

"The problem is that so many people think all kids have to go to college or that all kids deserve to go to college. We keep shipping off more kids to college to earn, for what turns out to be for most people, a worthless degree. Yes, I'm looking at you, CHASS/liberal arts. Sure, some degress/people find great success in these fields and are capable of paying back loans. Many; however, cannot. This also extends into the STEM degrees, as basic biology/chemistry/etc. degrees, without a good sense of direction, are as worthless as a music history degree. We need to get off the idea that Bobby-Ann's and Bobby-Ray's son, Bobby-Bob, needs to get a 4 year degree to work on gran-pappy's, Bobby-Robert, farm. College admissions should only be getting tougher and only those who meet the strict academic requirements, show a willingness to learn, and show a direction in life, should be admitted. If family finances of are concern, then financial aid and low-interest loans kick in, since every dumbass isn't soaking up all of this money that could go to people who deserve it more. Once our lower education improves to the point where all these kids are truly prepared, should, and need to go to college, then we can start shipping them off."

You are thinking about grad school. Basically, high school isn't good enough so college is the new high school. Everyone needs to know the basic things covered in an undergraduate program. We need an educated population. Very little of undergraduate work is geared towards doing a job anyway.

Farmering isn't just making food. Farmers need to know about the long term affects of medications, waste disposal, environmentalism and ethical treatment of workers/animals. Farmers need to know about weather in the physical sciences, obviously need tobewell versed in the biological sciences or else they risked being duped by corperations.

The same can be said about any job. Then there is voting and running our society in an educated way.

You guys are approaching this entirely the wrong way. This is not about responsibility. Nobody is saying they can't or won't pay the loans off. This is about eliminating something that is stifling the economy. Without this debt, these young people would be able to invest in the future and boost the economy with more borrowing power and purchasing power.

This would not be an issue at all if there were a fair amount of high paying jobs but America has allowed the corporations to exploit the population into paying to have the opportunity to work for them under shitty conditions. Something has to be done to balance this out.



[Edited on April 24, 2012 at 12:02 AM. Reason : e]

4/23/2012 11:51:35 PM

THE E MAN CHARACTERIZED IN-N-OUT AS "CRAP".

THEREFORE, ANY OF HIS SUBSEQUENT STATEMENTS MUST NOT BE RECEIVED AS CREDIBLE.

4/23/2012 11:56:10 PM

He also said "farmering" lol.

4/24/2012 7:50:51 AM

While a ton of the farmers in my area growing up didn't have college degrees (my grandfather and great uncle did...from NC State of course)...all of their kids that are taking over the farms have graduated from college (most of them NC State as well). That's all I have to contribute to this thread.

4/24/2012 7:56:30 AM

Yes because being a farmer in today's world is more than simply farming. People farm in their backyards now but farmering takes on a lot more responsibility outside of farming.

4/24/2012 8:00:14 AM

Education is not a 'debt sentence', there are many people who have managed to pay off student loans, get scholarships/financial aid, etc.

4/24/2012 11:34:21 AM

has anyone here applied for loan forgiveness? i just got a job with the fed and was just about to start looking up how to request a loan forgiveness...

any advice would be mucho appreciated.

4/24/2012 11:51:04 AM

harumph. 120 separate monthly payments must have already been made... i started college less than 10yrs ago so I don't think I quite qualify for this... fuck. and my shit will be paid off w/i 10 years anyways. FUCK YOU LOAN FORGIVENESS...

*keeps looking for options*

4/24/2012 11:59:43 AM

I've been in college for 10 years.

take 1 class at a time.

I save my pennies and now I'm getting my degree!

4/24/2012 12:23:48 PM

Quote :

"Education is not a 'debt sentence', there are many people who have managed to pay off student loans, get scholarships/financial aid, etc."

Because some have done it doesn't mean other hard-working, responsible people have not. It's just not a good argument to say "i did it, so others should to!!!".

But if you want to play the "i know people" card, I know several people who got loands for grad school for jobs that are necessary, but aren't high paying (a speech therapist for kindegartners, for example). they've been out of school for ten years, working the entire time, living frugrally, and are nowhere near paying off their student loan debts.

I was lucky enough to have my parents pay most of my way through, and I decided on a higher-paying job, but it's a good things some people choose to go into lower paying jobs like teachers and such.

4/24/2012 12:36:25 PM

Oh, your mom and dad paid your way? Please enlighten me on your views then

4/24/2012 12:41:40 PM

Quote :

"this country can't afford to give free secondary education."

Only we do, because secondary education is middle/high school. Oops! You didn't know what that term meant!

4/24/2012 12:45:39 PM

^^so i can't have an opinion, even if i'm close to several people who paid their own way through (including my father and mother), and several people who have had student-loan debts for over a decade?

did you get student loans and become a teacher? no? then who are you to have views on that situation?

[Edited on April 24, 2012 at 12:46 PM. Reason : ]

4/24/2012 12:45:55 PM

college is infact post secondary

4/24/2012 12:46:42 PM

Also, we're talking about outstanding debt here. We aren't talking about giving out loans that are guaranteed to be paid in the future, so you can't go to Harvard Law for free. That's stupid. You'd call that a grant.

Some of you are really stupid.

4/24/2012 12:47:50 PM